The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Whatever this novel says that contradicts the movie means nothing and it contradicts the movie plenty. It sounds like a whole different movie! It’s astounding.

It would be nice if LFL did a better job of making sure the authors properly portray the characters, but at the end of the day, so few people read the novels compared to the number of people who watch the movies. The novels aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things. It’s the movie that counts. I’m looking more forward to Rian’s commentary on the movie when the Blu Ray comes out.

Kessel wrote:Whatever this novel says that contradicts the movie means nothing and it contradicts the movie plenty. It sounds like a whole different movie! It’s astounding.

It would be nice if LFL did a better job of making sure the authors properly portray the characters, but at the end of the day, so few people read the novels compared to the number of people who watch the movies. The novels aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things. It’s the movie that counts. I’m looking more forward to Rian’s commentary on the movie when the Blu Ray comes out.

@Kessel

No,I agree it's just the book nerd in me that gets frustrated since I love reading about the character's feelings and motivations so when we get stuff that contradicts or flat our completely misinterpretation the characters it makes me angry because it doesn't have to be that way.

CienaRee wrote:

Kessel wrote:Whatever this novel says that contradicts the movie means nothing and it contradicts the movie plenty. It sounds like a whole different movie! It’s astounding.

It would be nice if LFL did a better job of making sure the authors properly portray the characters, but at the end of the day, so few people read the novels compared to the number of people who watch the movies. The novels aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things. It’s the movie that counts. I’m looking more forward to Rian’s commentary on the movie when the Blu Ray comes out.

@Kessel

No,I agree it's just the book nerd in me that gets frustrated since I love reading about the character's feelings and motivations so when we get stuff that contradicts or flat our completely misinterpretation the characters it makes me angry because it doesn't have to be that way.

@CienaRee
Same here. I’m a book nerd more than a movie buff, and writing like this hurts my eyes dangit

Did some sleuthing

CienaRee wrote:

Kessel wrote:Whatever this novel says that contradicts the movie means nothing and it contradicts the movie plenty. It sounds like a whole different movie! It’s astounding.

It would be nice if LFL did a better job of making sure the authors properly portray the characters, but at the end of the day, so few people read the novels compared to the number of people who watch the movies. The novels aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things. It’s the movie that counts. I’m looking more forward to Rian’s commentary on the movie when the Blu Ray comes out.

@Kessel

No,I agree it's just the book nerd in me that gets frustrated since I love reading about the character's feelings and motivations so when we get stuff that contradicts or flat our completely misinterpretation the characters it makes me angry because it doesn't have to be that way.

@CienaRee

Yeah, I know what you mean. I would love it if the authors were given in depth information about the characters so they wouldn’t improvise and mischaracterize things with their own interpretations. I know the novels are finished before the movie comes out so I think all they get is the script and some images/stills? It would be nice if the authors were provided more notes and information. I know Frye supposedly got more information from Rian, but it doesn’t look like Kogge did.

I noticed that these authors (especially Kogge) are just so dry with the material. When left to their own interpretations, they manage to make really poignant moments like Kylo sensing Leia and the throne room scene seem so cold/unemotional. This goes for the main dynamic of Rey and Kylo as well and it’s just sad. Kogge’s Kylo is a completely different character than Rian’s Kylo.

Good Morning everyone!

Looks like the Junior Novel is just trash, huh? I'm not bothered at all...

I know many liked the Junior Novel of TFA... but I remember while reading it that Kylo was portrayed more "bad" than in the actual movie or adult novel.

Maybe they want to simplify the complex feelings and relationships for the children?

It's funny how some scenes from the adult and junior novel are totally contradicting each other.

We know Rian had some insides to the adult novel so that's certainly more reliable.

Yep theres even a video (the Star Wars show) where Rian is seen talking to Jason Fry, apparently for hours where they also created new scenes!

I wouldn't worry about the junior version, its for lil kiddies and overly simplified.

So what do we know about the Fry novel? Have their been leaks on that one that make it seem better, or are we just assuming that it will be better?

@SoloSideCousin

Yes there have been a tonne of Reylo-positive leaks from the Fry novel, you can read through this thread from the past few days. Its been posted here

tomorrow is the official release date- I live in Europe and usually Amazone send it around midnight... so 16h and I'll finally have it on my kindle.

Good day everyone!
Well good to know that the junior novelization is not particularly worthy, at least I will save some money
Anyway I understand that the recipients are different and that in the end the movies count more, but at the same time I think that it is quite absurd that they allow the publication of such different contents. It's like reading different stories ...

Dar-ren19 wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

whisperingwillow wrote:@Dar-ren19 I am going to be honest and say no that doesn't bother me. It doesn't match what is on screen and doesn't seem to match what Fry wrote either. Also, Kylo being angry at his mom? I'm pretty sure Kylo is angry at the world.

@whisperingwillow

I’m pretty much unbothered this for the same reason.  It’s so unbelievably off that there’s no way this was sanctioned by the creators.  Kylo’s description and thoughts aside, it reads like it was written by a middle schooler.  

I just want to laugh til I cry right now.  Maybe I will cry.  

@IoJovi

LOL or FOR middle schoolers haha.

Here’s the next bit. I do hope I’m not boring you all

@Dar-ren19

Aw hahaha at least the junior novelisation spells out for us that she looked away in "embarrassment". Bye bye to those theories claiming she looked away because she was angry or disgusted. It's especially great because Kylo is such a villain-mcgee in this version, and Rey getting all hot and bothered despite that really says....something doesn't it?

Actually, am I the only one who is feeling a little giggly over the junior novel? I know Kylo's characterisation is...not right (understatement) but I kind of love how cartoony he is with all the smirking/smiling/laughing like some silly anime villain. And if/when reylo romance happens in IX, they're gonna have to incorporate it in the junior novel somehow. Seeing how Kylo's really been hammed up as the smirky-muahaha-bad guy in this one, it's going to be some crazy faster than light falling in love in the IX junior novel! The image of some poor, whiplashed 11 year old reading these sometime in the future with utter confusion on their face is making me laugh. Am I a bad person?

As a reminder, nobody at Lucasfilm actually read any of the various TFA novelisations, storybooks and so on, or checked them even for the most basic inconsistencies like Ahch-To being a jungle planet. Nobody. I see Lucasfilm are up to these old tricks with the junior novel.

The novels are also written long before the film is out, so no wonder Kogge missed the puppy eyes.

I hope more co-operation went into the adult novel because it's advertised as being written with Rian's input, and the leaked bits I read lined up very well with the film, enriching it rather than contradicting. Which is what all the novelisations could do if some care, thought, planning and proper input went into them. But in that case they'd have to be treated more as a valuable storytelling medium in themselves, than as a pointless cash grab.

The final page didn't seem that bad last night (just stupid), but Kylo advancing on Rey with the guards? Wat lmfao?!? Dude was kneeling, gritting his teeth at Snoke the whole time. Obviously this author just made random assumptions and invented wildly (I wouldn't be surprised if we find out a lot of this is even directly contradicted). Stuff doesn't line up with Fry's novel either or Rian in general, so there's no way any of that came from the script. Seems like he just wrote the book like an opinion piece.

Fry actually communicated with Rian. From the excerpts I've read, you can tell. Also his insistence that the story isn't his. It was his job to interpret Rian's intentions, not make assumptions and put down what he personally wanted.

Good lord, the junior novel sounds like a heaping pile of trash

Movie strikes book canon any day.

Anyway from what I've seen it's not that bad? Her saying Kylo is "stronger than ever" and has an "iron grip on the galaxy"? So? From her perspective he does? She saw him kneeling but they've both been scorned and from her perspective, he chose ruling the FO over her.

But whatever, that line isn't in the movie so it doesn't matter in the long run.

And Rey looking at Finn with "the other girl"...well she does? Sorry, but that's in the movie. She left him for three days and then comes back and he's devoted to someone she's never seen before. It sucks that it's so ambiguous as to what she's thinking, but Rian put that shot of her staring at Finn and Rose. *Shrugs* There are several things I wished weren't in the movie and that's one of them, but it's there.

Eight-year-olds aren't going to pick up on subtle, sexy Reylo so the author isn't going to put that in there. It's not his focus group. Whereas with adults, Fry threw caution to the wind.

First of all, thank you @Dar-ren19 for posting these - I’m still gonna waste my money and buy the junior novelisation, but it’s good to be prepared for this massive disappointment. I’ve hoped to get more insight, but instead it’s pretty much a contradiction. Sigh.

Also, guys, there’s a new excerpt from the adult novelisation on hamtro25.tumblr.com - if you don’t mind being spoiled, do read it, it gives a good insight into Kylo’s mind I think and shows how the same scene has been overly simplified in the junior novelisation. I’m posting images below too:




Coming back to the junior novelisation topic - I’m still laughing, not only does it not give us any thoughts, feelings or emotions of the characters as shown in the movie, but it actually contradicts them (like the characters obviously couldn’t think/feel some of these things) and contradicts the actions presented in the movie (Kylo advancing on Rey?!). Going through all the excerpts @Dar-ren19 shared, I have particular issues with these:
The final scene in the Falcon

It’s a little funny that so many Resistance members are wondering what these books are when so many audience members haven’t initially noticed them in the Falcon at all . I guess the script said something along the lines ‘Finn opened the drawer and a few old books were lying there bla bla’.

Seriously? Puzzled? Her facial expressions speak longing in this scene, whether it’s about Finn and how she’d like him to comfort her now but he can’t cos he’s busy with Rose or about Ben with whom she could have something similar to what she’s witnessing is debatable (can be both too), but puzzled?

Yeah, you guys have already said it - they’re climbing up the rocks and running into the Falcon as fast as they can, sweating and panting to escape the First Order, and this conversation happens pretty much immediately after they’ve taken off, but Rey managed to tell Leia all about her trip to Kylo and how he’s now in charge.

Sure.
The scene between Leia and Kylo

Not that much out of character, but a little too harsh. Watching it, I felt like he obviously must’ve guessed his mother was in one of those ships and when he actually sensed her, I felt like he was struggling from the very beginning, knowing he must fire, but not wanting to cos it’d cost his mother’s life. Fry’s take is much closer to my impression of the movie.
The shirtless scene


In the film Rey seemed to believe Kylo when he said he didn’t hate his father. Also, in the adult novelisation she thought Kylo was lying when he said he hated Han for being a weak-minded fool and again believed he didn’t hate Han after all. Here, the book suggests Kylo indeed does hate him and Rey thinks so too.

‘Ren’s lips curled into a smile’. Oh really?
The throne room scene leading to Snoke’s death


This scene played so different in the movie that I seriously don’t believe any of the above were in any early or alternative version of the script.


The good thing is Kylo doesn’t want to kill Rey and it’s because there’s still some light in him. Sadly, the book ignores his emotional attachment to her.
And the whole resolve of Kylo is portrayed as he knows he’s come to kill Rey? Upon my first viewing I wasn’t sure if he’d entered the room with the intention of killing Snoke, but he surely never thought of killing Rey.

How d.i.s.a.p.p.o.i.n.t.i.n.g.

@nana7marie many thanks for the hamtro25 update! I'm so very weak when it comes to these leaks. I really wanted to just virgin-read Fry's novel, but I'm just not strong enough to resist.

You wrote this:
The good thing is Kylo doesn’t want to kill Rey and it’s because there’s still some light in him. Sadly, the book ignores his emotional attachment to her.

To me, the egregious mistake in the TLJ junior novel is not just that it doesn't show ANY attachment from Kylo to Rey. It's that it treats Kylo as just another generic mustache-twirling Bond Villain. I've not read Kogge's TFA junior novel, but from what I've heard, he did an ok job there with Kylo. It's why I put up the $6.99 for it. Alas, the book is pretty much a hack job. What the hell happened between TFA and TLJ for Mr. Kogge to drop the ball like this?

I was 11-12 when I first read an abridged version of the Illiad and was fascinated by Hector, Paris, Menalaus, Achilles, Petroclas, Helen, Priam, Cassandra, etc etc. I didn't need to have the human condition OR emotion dumbed down for me to "get it". I'm presuming these books are for junior highschoolers, right? Between the ages of 10-15? It's crazy. They don't need to be patronized like this. They do get complexity, both in real life, and in fiction.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop with this novel. It doesn't deserve the time allotted. You're all correct about that.

Dar-ren19 wrote:@nana7marie many thanks for the hamtro25 update! I'm so very weak when it comes to these leaks. I really wanted to just virgin-read Fry's novel, but I'm just not strong enough to resist.

You wrote this:
The good thing is Kylo doesn’t want to kill Rey and it’s because there’s still some light in him. Sadly, the book ignores his emotional attachment to her.

To me, the egregious mistake in the TLJ junior novel is not just that it doesn't show ANY attachment from Kylo to Rey. It's that it treats Kylo as just another generic mustache-twirling Bond Villain. I've not read Kogge's TFA junior novel, but from what I've heard, he did an ok job there with Kylo. It's why I put up the $6.99 for it. Alas, the book is pretty much a hack job. What the hell happened between TFA and TLJ for Mr. Kogge to drop the ball like this?

I was 11-12 when I first read an abridged version of the Illiad and was fascinated by Hector, Paris, Menalaus, Achilles, Petroclas, Helen, Priam, Cassandra, etc etc. I didn't need to have the human condition OR emotion dumbed down for me to "get it". I'm presuming these books are for junior highschoolers, right? Between the ages of 10-15? It's crazy. They don't need to be patronized like this. They do get complexity, both in real life, and in fiction.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop with this novel. It doesn't deserve the time allotted. You're all correct about that.

@Dar-ren19

Sleemo's tumblr mentioned that Kogge's TLJ book explains that 'voice' Rey hears 'I'll come back for you sweetheart', did you see that part?

Not sure if this has been discussed before  here but is it true that in Fry's novel Luke has a wife? So Luke was married and now is canon?

WTF, I am so confused! All these novels are contradicting so many things! I thought Mark made it perfectly clear Luke never had a love, girlfriend or wife!

Can someone pls explain?

tukicarreno wrote:Not sure if this has been discussed before  here but is it true that in Fry's novel Luke has a wife? So Luke was married and now is canon?

WTF, I am so confused! All these novels are contradicting so many things! I thought Mark made it perfectly clear Luke never had a love, girlfriend or wife!

Can someone pls explain?

@tukicarreno
I think it was said that it was Luke imagining what his life could have been had he not become a Jedi or something like that.

Moonlight13 wrote:

tukicarreno wrote:Not sure if this has been discussed before  here but is it true that in Fry's novel Luke has a wife? So Luke was married and now is canon?

WTF, I am so confused! All these novels are contradicting so many things! I thought Mark made it perfectly clear Luke never had a love, girlfriend or wife!

Can someone pls explain?

@tukicarreno
I think it was said that it was Luke imagining what his life could have been had he not become a Jedi or something like that.

@Moonlight13

Oh ok! Phew! That makes more sense, otherwise... It would be so out of left field.

Yup, it was a dream Luke had as a 'what if' he never left Tatooine...

kroi wrote:

Dar-ren19 wrote:@nana7marie many thanks for the hamtro25 update! I'm so very weak when it comes to these leaks. I really wanted to just virgin-read Fry's novel, but I'm just not strong enough to resist.

You wrote this:
The good thing is Kylo doesn’t want to kill Rey and it’s because there’s still some light in him. Sadly, the book ignores his emotional attachment to her.

To me, the egregious mistake in the TLJ junior novel is not just that it doesn't show ANY attachment from Kylo to Rey. It's that it treats Kylo as just another generic mustache-twirling Bond Villain. I've not read Kogge's TFA junior novel, but from what I've heard, he did an ok job there with Kylo. It's why I put up the $6.99 for it. Alas, the book is pretty much a hack job. What the hell happened between TFA and TLJ for Mr. Kogge to drop the ball like this?

I was 11-12 when I first read an abridged version of the Illiad and was fascinated by Hector, Paris, Menalaus, Achilles, Petroclas, Helen, Priam, Cassandra, etc etc. I didn't need to have the human condition OR emotion dumbed down for me to "get it". I'm presuming these books are for junior highschoolers, right? Between the ages of 10-15? It's crazy. They don't need to be patronized like this. They do get complexity, both in real life, and in fiction.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop with this novel. It doesn't deserve the time allotted. You're all correct about that.

@Dar-ren19

Sleemo's tumblr mentioned that Kogge's TLJ book explains that 'voice' Rey hears 'I'll come back for you sweetheart', did you see that part?

@kroi

Yep. According to Kogge, that voice was Rey’s own. Make of that what you will. I’ll upload more pages today...

Dar-ren19 wrote:

kroi wrote:

Dar-ren19 wrote:@nana7marie many thanks for the hamtro25 update! I'm so very weak when it comes to these leaks. I really wanted to just virgin-read Fry's novel, but I'm just not strong enough to resist.

You wrote this:
The good thing is Kylo doesn’t want to kill Rey and it’s because there’s still some light in him. Sadly, the book ignores his emotional attachment to her.

To me, the egregious mistake in the TLJ junior novel is not just that it doesn't show ANY attachment from Kylo to Rey. It's that it treats Kylo as just another generic mustache-twirling Bond Villain. I've not read Kogge's TFA junior novel, but from what I've heard, he did an ok job there with Kylo. It's why I put up the $6.99 for it. Alas, the book is pretty much a hack job. What the hell happened between TFA and TLJ for Mr. Kogge to drop the ball like this?

I was 11-12 when I first read an abridged version of the Illiad and was fascinated by Hector, Paris, Menalaus, Achilles, Petroclas, Helen, Priam, Cassandra, etc etc. I didn't need to have the human condition OR emotion dumbed down for me to "get it". I'm presuming these books are for junior highschoolers, right? Between the ages of 10-15? It's crazy. They don't need to be patronized like this. They do get complexity, both in real life, and in fiction.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop with this novel. It doesn't deserve the time allotted. You're all correct about that.

@Dar-ren19

Sleemo's tumblr mentioned that Kogge's TLJ book explains that 'voice' Rey hears 'I'll come back for you sweetheart', did you see that part?

@kroi

Yep. According to Kogge, that voice was Rey’s own. Make of that what you will. I’ll upload more pages today...

@Dar-ren19

Lol,how... anti climatic.I mean wouldn't Rey recognize her own voice?
But yeah this author really seems to hate implying there's even a connection let alone romantic subtext between Reylo.