The Last Jedi General Discussion

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:My late reaction to the last news regarding TLJ

1) About the Korean TLJ chart:


One detail that strikes me about Luke's description: he is introduced as the "hero who has returned". What I personally take from this piece of information? IMO, Luke will be relunctant to break his exile but he will ultimately return. In other words, I definitely say bye bye to Luke goes to the DS,  scenario I wasn't convinced about initially. So Luke is IMO not the one who will be at the center of the drama. For the fun, I made a post about the parallels with SHR:
https://reylo1992.tumblr.com/post/167947082788/about-the-korean-tlj-connection-chart

2) About the "romancegate"

Very good thing that Rian brought an end to the romancegate by confirming that there is romantic drama. Two interesting things. I personally take his comment as a confirmation that there is no romance in the sense of "kissy kissy" things happening. He said anyway months ago that love ain't central in TLJ. However, he does confirm that there is romantic drama, which I interpret as the fact that there is romantic development although it doesn't lead to a romance by the end of the movie. I find it also interesting that he associates "romance" with "drama" as if the two of them were closely related. So what I take from this? Something dramatic will happen by the end of the movie and will prevent the romantic development to become a concrete romance.

@reylo1992

I actually think the opposite is true is going to be true in this instance.  During the May RomanceGate fiasco, Rian did answer a question (more like damage control, tbh) where he stated he never said there wouldn't be a romance in TLJ.  He also implied that Colin (this was all prior to his firing) would have the option to make a big epic romance if he chose to do so.   I'm paraphrasing of course, but for me, it basically confirmed slow-burn Reylo.  TLJ is going to be about the developmental process - they are not actually going to be a couple in this film, but we will still see the underlying attraction and progression that shows they're headed in that direction.  It'll be up to JJ to continue that story through IX.

@IoJovi

I know we'll never find out, but now that Colin's been out of the picture for a while, I'm dying to know what it is that he was going to do with Rey and Kylo that didn't work for Kathleen! WHAT!?

@Cowgirlsamurai

Right?  What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall during those conversations, or to actually have the chance to read this horrendous script Colin had constructed!  I am grateful overall for the turn of events, as I'm sure JJ's writing will run circles around whatever Colin had dreamed up.

IoJovi wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:My late reaction to the last news regarding TLJ

1) About the Korean TLJ chart:


One detail that strikes me about Luke's description: he is introduced as the "hero who has returned". What I personally take from this piece of information? IMO, Luke will be relunctant to break his exile but he will ultimately return. In other words, I definitely say bye bye to Luke goes to the DS,  scenario I wasn't convinced about initially. So Luke is IMO not the one who will be at the center of the drama. For the fun, I made a post about the parallels with SHR:
https://reylo1992.tumblr.com/post/167947082788/about-the-korean-tlj-connection-chart

2) About the "romancegate"

Very good thing that Rian brought an end to the romancegate by confirming that there is romantic drama. Two interesting things. I personally take his comment as a confirmation that there is no romance in the sense of "kissy kissy" things happening. He said anyway months ago that love ain't central in TLJ. However, he does confirm that there is romantic drama, which I interpret as the fact that there is romantic development although it doesn't lead to a romance by the end of the movie. I find it also interesting that he associates "romance" with "drama" as if the two of them were closely related. So what I take from this? Something dramatic will happen by the end of the movie and will prevent the romantic development to become a concrete romance.

@reylo1992

I actually think the opposite is true is going to be true in this instance.  During the May RomanceGate fiasco, Rian did answer a question (more like damage control, tbh) where he stated he never said there wouldn't be a romance in TLJ.  He also implied that Colin (this was all prior to his firing) would have the option to make a big epic romance if he chose to do so.   I'm paraphrasing of course, but for me, it basically confirmed slow-burn Reylo.  TLJ is going to be about the developmental process - they are not actually going to be a couple in this film, but we will still see the underlying attraction and progression that shows they're headed in that direction.  It'll be up to JJ to continue that story through IX.

@IoJovi

Come on, JJ; don't let us down!

Interesting that Rian always mentioned Han/Leia but never said a word about Anakin/Padme. I guess that potential romantic drama looks a lot more like Anakin/Padme than Han/Leia.

@Cowgirlsamurai

Maybe she didn't liked the whole idea of how to finish it but first candidate to replace Colin was Fincher who is known for pretty grim, gritty stuff. Not fairtyale endings, then JJ got it.

So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.

DarthRen wrote:
@LesCousinsDangereux

Adam was talking about living in the movie and not surviving at the end. Larry King put it weirdly but well Kylo isn't exactly living well in TLJ.

@DarthRen

As far as I am aware the question was: Does Kylo Ren survive Episode 8? /Is Kylo Ren alive at the end of episode 8? (I think the first one is closer to the actual phrasing)

AD's response was a direct asnwser to that question (without preceding it with any other cqualifiers). And he did not say "I can't asnwer that question, but will talk about during the movie, and in that case it depends what you mean by living" .

Let's not completely change what the actor actually said or what the question was. How you interpet it, it is up to you. (eg we know Kylo lives, we think he may not have a great time - but neither did he in TFA actually - so may think it would make sense if he was referring to during the movie). But that's not what he was asked, and that's not what he answered. It was about his end state. But as I said he just dodged the question.

Anyway Kylo is not having a great time during any of the 3 movies anyway (except at the end of Ep 9!
And similar can be said about most of the characters. There is a major war going on after all, and each character has their own trials and obstacles to overcome. No one is exactly relaxing or enjoying themsleves.

I have limited my exposure to Star Wars fandom to this site, some blogs and podcasts.  I am usually surprised when I do go lurk in other areas of fandom....and I think 'Yikes!' Then I roll my eyes and move on! LOL!

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

I guess denial helps them sleep at night.

SkyStar wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

I guess denial helps them sleep at night.

@SkyStar

The denial is strong. But I am happy today because one of my tumble posts convinced someone who wasn't Reylo originally that Reylo is a thing. Sometimes you just need to show parallels between two movies and it works

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.

@PalmettoBlue

Same thing happened to me. Oh God, the FB comment sections

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

Same thing happened to me. Oh God, the FB comment sections

@Cowgirlsamurai

I avoid that sith like the plague.  And it does suck because I don't want to live in a bubble or echo chamber, and it'd be nice to see outside points of view.  Every single time I do venture past these walls, the amount of idiocy I run into just makes my head spin.  People see Luke as STILL the main character, and if he's not, it's secretly Finn.  Let's not even go into the misogyny of how Rey will be used as a reward for Finn the hero at the end of the day.  Or how Rey will get reprimanded by Daddy Luke if she dares veer off the righteous path with her evil cousin.  

Just....No!!!!  

Those examples are ridiculous sure, but that doesn't even make a dent into some of the more offensive ones I've seen that usually involve Kylo's character.

SkyStar wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

I guess denial helps them sleep at night.

@SkyStar

Yes, but for how long? The film is out in 2.5 weeks, and I foresse sleepless nights for some ...

LesCousinsDangereux wrote:

DarthRen wrote:
@LesCousinsDangereux

Adam was talking about living in the movie and not surviving at the end. Larry King put it weirdly but well Kylo isn't exactly living well in TLJ.

@DarthRen

As far as I am aware the question was: Does Kylo Ren survive Episode 8? /Is Kylo Ren alive at the end of episode 8? (I think the first one is closer to the actual phrasing)

AD's response was a direct asnwser to that question (without preceding it with any other cqualifiers). And he did not say "I can't asnwer that question, but will talk about during the movie, and in that case it depends what you mean by living" .

Let's not completely change what the actor actually said or what the question was. How you interpet it, it is up to you. (eg we know Kylo lives, we think he may not have a great time - but neither did he in TFA actually - so may think it would make sense if he was referring to during the movie). But that's not what he was asked, and that's not what he answered. It was about his end state. But as I said he just dodged the question.

Anyway Kylo is not having a great time during any of the 3 movies anyway (except at the end of Ep 9!
And similar can be said about most of the characters. There is a major war going on after all, and each character has their own trials and obstacles to overcome. No one is exactly relaxing or enjoying themsleves.

@LesCousinsDangereux

Lik I said, Adam was talking about Kylo's state in TLJ not if he survives.

Here are his SW related answers to Larry's questions:

You didn’t have to audition [for Star Wars], right?

No.

Did you like being the evil one?

Yeah. Costumes are better, the lightsaber is way better, most people don’t talk to you as much which was really good. But yeah, I think the dark side is always--as a kid I always liked those movies. I was always interested in stormtroopers.
When you play the dark side like that, you believe in the character right? The character doesn’t believe he’s a bad guy, does he?
No, no. That was the frustrating thing getting ready for it, as everyone liked to tell you that you were the bad guy but I definitely didn’t think of him like that.
[...]

Now you're starring in the next one. Anything you can tell us about Star Wars episode 8?

That it happens. [Laughs]

Another thing I've drawn out of him--that it happened. [Laughs] Do you live in episode 8? That’s a direct question, Kylo.

Yeah, yeah. Um... you know, it depends on what your idea of living is.

Aha, another good answer. [...] In your wisdom, why has Star Wars been Star Wars?

The world that George Lucas originally created is very unique and specific. And there are all these details that are unexplained and people have attached a lot of meaning to those details and made it personal to them. And at the heart of the story, it’s very simple. It’s about a guy, Luke Skywalker in a small town desperate to get out, feeling he’s called to do something greater than where he is, and that theme is pretty universal.
Your relationship with your family and your father. Are you destined to follow in your... you know, you’re kind of in a jail because of your heritage.
Can you overcome it? All these themes are in it. The references he stole from, the Kurosawa, I think that visual look of it is beautiful.

And the followers are--

Devoted.

Twitter question from our social media: Did you ever get to bond with your cast mates in Star Wars?

...bond? ye-yeah. I mean as much as you can, we kind of went out to these forced dinners, you know, but which are actually kind of fun. [Laughs]

Are you easy to get along with? Are you easily directed?

Yeah, I like not knowing. If someone thinks that they do, I’m open for suggestions. Harrison, I had nice interactions with. Daisy is great. I knew Oscar from before.

Without giving away any spoilers, what’s one aspect of Kylo Ren you’re excited for fans to see in the next film?

This is such a general answer but... humanity. Even though it's very much a blockbuster movie and I’m aware of that, there was no taking that for granted in that we were forced to be general. There were a lot of plot points that we knew were operating in the first one and that we get to explain more in the second one that make the both of them make sense.

But they do kind of feel socially active to me too. George Lucas originally... a lot of Star Wars was in response to Vietnam. What I remember talking a lot with JJ and Rian was this idea of terrorism and two sides being morally justified to behave however they wanted to in order to get what they thought was absolutely correct.

SkyStar wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

I guess denial helps them sleep at night.

@SkyStar

At least they are making progress. A few weeks ago they were still claiming there wasn't any Reylo at all and we were only seeing what we wanted to see. Claiming it is misdirection is admitting the scenes are meant to be seen as Reylo scenes I'm wondering what they'll say once it becomes canon. I'm sure they will find new ways to deny it.

Half the fun is going onto other sites and saying things like "Yes! It's all misdirection! Every word coming out of every member of the filmmaking team is a lie! Rey will join with her long-lost father to fight her evil cousin Kylo Ren!"

I love it when they claim they just don't want us to be disappointed by the movie when it doesn't go the way we expect and that we should be open-minded to other theories. But when you tell them to take their own advice, they refuse to acknowledge their own theories could be wrong, too.

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

The antis know damn well it's not misdirection. These bullies know they've lost. I'm seeing more and more tweets where they acknowledge that reylo is happening. They're shaking in their boots.

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

I really can't believe that. Anyone with minimum sense of understanding has seen by now that the main characters of the next movie are Rey and Kylo. I mean, after all the promotions, the interviews, the posters, I mean, THE POSTERS, every piece of advertising they release tells us that the movie is about Kylo (the dark side) and Rey (the light side)! I'm not telling that there will be a romance between them. Even if in the end they are cousins or siblings or whatever, the movie is about these two characters. How people can think that Finn will be the big twist? Didn't they see the posters where Finn is never in the same size as Rey and Kylo?

And believe me, I'm not bashing Finn, I love Finn and before I watched TFA I thought he would be the main character. But now, how can someone not see Rey and Kylo as the real big deal. *dead*

BenRey wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

The antis know damn well it's not misdirection. These bullies know they've lost. I'm seeing more and more tweets where they acknowledge that reylo is happening. They're shaking in their boots.

@BenRey

Delicious. Give me more!!!

BenRey wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:So - I think I've made a mistake. I've immersed myself here, where people actually think about the movies in the narrative sense. This has caused me to think that people are intelligent.
I ventured into You Tube and read a few comments.
The willful blindness is just stunning. No lie, people are saying that Reylo is the distraction (like Finn with the lightsaber), that Finn is the big twist, that Reylo is a cancer, and so forth.

I mean - what?
How many millions have they spent on marketing? And it mostly points to the connection between Rey and Kylo. Why would ANYONE think all of the marketing is a misdirection?
I just don't understand.      

@PalmettoBlue

The antis know damn well it's not misdirection. These bullies know they've lost. I'm seeing more and more tweets where they acknowledge that reylo is happening. They're shaking in their boots.

@BenRey

It's obvious the antis are afraid, that's why we're seeing attacks on Twitter, Tumblr and other forums toward the trailer, against Rian and anything that hints at the importance and development between Rey and Kylo

Just from that little sample it's clear some of those particular antis are against Reylo for reasons which have nothing to do with the narrative.

The meltdown will be glorius to watch

I think a lot of the antis have gotten to the point where they've simply dug their heels in too hard to ever be willing to backtrack now. I'm sure that many don't believe their own arguments or rhetoric anymore (if they ever really did or were just virtue-signalling because they thought it made them look good); they're just not willing to admit that they were wrong. Because doing so means admitting all of their over-the-top, often abusive foolishness was just that: foolishness.

The irony, of course, is that they look even more foolish sticking to their guns so hard instead of proving they have a mature side to them and bowing out gracefully. And to double the irony: They're quite effectively echoing their much-hated Kylo "I've gone too far to turn back and stop doing wrong things now" Ren. Heck, even frigging Kylo has displayed more self-awareness than these folks have!

And then there's the fact that a lot of antis are just people who want to be angry, so they actively search for aspects to be mad about and plaster the flimsy coverup of "social justice" over it to make it look less ridiculous. They find something satisfying in being outraged. If it wasn't Star Wars and Kylo Ren and Reylo, it'd be something else. They don't actually care about Star Wars or anything it ever stood for or was popular for.

Official Promo for South Korea

http://reylotrashandproud.tumblr.com/post/167970045584/rreeyylloo-this-is-from-official-promotional

Interesting detail: Kylo Ren previously described as a "villain you can relate to" is described here as "the authority of the FO who longs for absolute evil". That kind of description would rather fit with Snoke or Hux, right? Then, why describing Kylo this way?

Thoughts?

Longing for absolute evil is a known factor, but the description of Kylo as the authority of the First Order doesn't seem right based on how he was portrayed in TFA. I found that an odd part as well. I'm not sure how much time he'll have to play leader to the FO in TLJ either, with everything going on. Especially if our predictions for the story are correct.

I came to this forum as a curious film fan. And straight up admit I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box as I had to read a lot of meta to really understand the underlaying narratives and possible story arcs in TFA. I was aware there were ‘anti’ feelings but never actively sought out those discussions so when this comes up I am just baffled.To go to the extent that I’ve seen in tweets or on You Tube (why do I read the comments??) where it’s been elevated and just doesn’t warrent that level of malice and another word that my kids use is spiteful. I’m just glad to experience this through forum filters.

MrsWindu wrote:I came to this forum as a curious film fan. And straight up admit I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box as I had to read a lot of meta to really understand the underlaying narratives and possible story arcs in TFA. I was aware there were ‘anti’ feelings but never actively sought out those discussions so when this comes up I am just baffled.To go to the extent that I’ve seen in tweets or on You Tube (why do I read the comments??)  where it’s been elevated and just doesn’t warrent that level of malice and another word that my kids use is spiteful. I’m just glad to experience this through forum filters.

@MrsWindu

Same here. Fandom should be fun!