The Last Jedi General Discussion

Starliteprism wrote:
"Now, get off my island!"

@Starliteprism


Thinking about it, that was pretty harsh of Luke...first of all it's not his island/planet and second he never even let her explain or discuss what happened. Just like with his nephew- talking things out isn't Luke's thing, huh?

Let The Past Die wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:[quote="Let The Past

Kylo:You'll bring Luke Skywalker to me.
- You're not doing this. The effort would kill you.
Can you see my surroundings?
Rey: You're gonna pay for what you did!
Kylo: I can't see yours. Just you. So, no.This is something else.
(DOOR OPENING)
 Luke.
Luke: What's that about?
Rey: I was cleaning my blaster. It went off.
Luke: Let's get started.

@Night Huntress

This is another observational question which I've remembered by seeing @Night Huntress  above quote.

I found it interesting that neither Rey nor Kylo told their 'mentors' about the force bond Skype connection they had. It would have been an ideal time for Rey to say to Luke that she'd seen Kylo, to ask Luke what it meant, but she instinctively keeps it secret.
Kylo asks Rey why is the force connecting them in the second force bond session, meaning he hadn't asked Snoke, his Master why it was happening, he would know Snoke would want to know that information. Again it appears they both are keeping it secret, so it's something just between the 2 of them. Rey gets caught out when Luke crashes the party in the hut, and Snoke shows how he caught Kylo out when he referred to his part in being a switchboard operator when he 'bridged' their Skype sessions.

So why did both keep it secret? As much as Rey hissed and spit at him like an angry kitten, the first couple of times, this after she left him scarred and battered on the forest floor, he just seemed so calm with her. It's like they both wanted to explore where this was going, without sharing it with any one else.
Did any one else pick up on this? Thoughts?

@Let The Past Die

Wow, you are right on that! Even though she "hated him" she wasn't scared of their connection as well. Maybe she didn't voice it, but she was also curious to hear his story.

I did notice that @LetThePastDie, I noticed during the first session, that he was confused with what was happening.  He thought that she was projecting herself across the galaxy and then he realized that this was different.  As the session went on, he got the same look that he had in the forest after she caught the saber....calm and soft look.  Adam is an amazing actor. I didn't notice that until the thirst viewing. haha!

Reynak wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:

Reynak wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Reynak wrote:@motherofpearl1
The link doesn’t work, and now I’m damn curious.

I am glad you like my blog and, as you could see I am a die hard SanSan shipper, LOL. Another controversial misunderstood ship. Nothing to do with the show. I don’t follow the shop and dons ship them show version.

@Reynak

It's a picture of Rey standing in front of the opening to the tree; it's the shape of the entrance which I noticed - I can't put picitures on my computer    so anyone out there who can please post it if you're able to do so

@motherofpearl1

Yes, I know the picture, LOL
It’s difficult not to notice what it looks like.

@Reynak

I wish I had been there for the initial meeting wth the art/set design team.
Rian: "i need an opening in a tree on Ahch-To to look like a vagina."
Set Design Team: "oh ok" writes notes down
Rian: "and the same for a cave on Ahch-to....and the mountain bunker door on Crait after the First Order fires at it and blasts a hole in it."
Set Design team: "hole as in shaped like a Vag-"
Rian: "yup, exactly. Psychology."

@SheLitAFire

And don't forget - what makes the hole in the door on Crait is a large battering ram cannon that shoots out a stream of golden light.

I literally cannot make this stuff up.

@PalmettoBlue

That cannon was sooo obvious as a phallic symbol. Kylo is so angry. He was like a bull in destruction mode.
And we aren’t making things up. It’s all there, in the movie, like Rian said.

@Reynak

And Luke was cockblocking the entrance. Yup, cannot be any clearer than this.

thescavenger wrote:

Reynak wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:

Reynak wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Reynak wrote:@motherofpearl1
The link doesn’t work, and now I’m damn curious.

I am glad you like my blog and, as you could see I am a die hard SanSan shipper, LOL. Another controversial misunderstood ship. Nothing to do with the show. I don’t follow the shop and dons ship them show version.

@Reynak

It's a picture of Rey standing in front of the opening to the tree; it's the shape of the entrance which I noticed - I can't put picitures on my computer    so anyone out there who can please post it if you're able to do so

@motherofpearl1

Yes, I know the picture, LOL
It’s difficult not to notice what it looks like.

@Reynak

I wish I had been there for the initial meeting wth the art/set design team.
Rian: "i need an opening in a tree on Ahch-To to look like a vagina."
Set Design Team: "oh ok" writes notes down
Rian: "and the same for a cave on Ahch-to....and the mountain bunker door on Crait after the First Order fires at it and blasts a hole in it."
Set Design team: "hole as in shaped like a Vag-"
Rian: "yup, exactly. Psychology."

@SheLitAFire

And don't forget - what makes the hole in the door on Crait is a large battering ram cannon that shoots out a stream of golden light.

I literally cannot make this stuff up.

@PalmettoBlue

That cannon was sooo obvious as a phallic symbol. Kylo is so angry. He was like a bull in destruction mode.
And we aren’t making things up. It’s all there, in the movie, like Rian said.

@Reynak

And Luke was cockblocking the entrance. Yup, cannot any clearer than this.

@thescavenger

Luke is the Sequel Trilogy's C-3PO.

ETA:

Night Huntress wrote:

Starliteprism wrote:
"Now, get off my island!"

@Starliteprism


Thinking about it, that was pretty harsh of Luke...first of all it's not his island/planet and second he never even let her explain or discuss what happened. Just like with his nephew- talking things out isn't Luke's thing, huh?

@Night Huntress

Those hot-blooded Skywalker boys. :-p

Let The Past Die wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:[quote="Let The Past

Kylo:You'll bring Luke Skywalker to me.
- You're not doing this. The effort would kill you.
Can you see my surroundings?
Rey: You're gonna pay for what you did!
Kylo: I can't see yours. Just you. So, no.This is something else.
(DOOR OPENING)
 Luke.
Luke: What's that about?
Rey: I was cleaning my blaster. It went off.
Luke: Let's get started.

@Night Huntress

This is another observational question which I've remembered by seeing @Night Huntress above quote.

I found it interesting that neither Rey nor Kylo told their 'mentors' about the force bond Skype connection they had. It would have been an ideal time for Rey to say to Luke that she'd seen Kylo, to ask Luke what it meant, but she instinctively keeps it secret.
Kylo asks Rey why is the force connecting them in the second force bond session, meaning he hadn't asked Snoke, his Master why it was happening, he would know Snoke would want to know that information. Again it appears they both are keeping it secret, so it's something just between the 2 of them. Rey gets caught out when Luke crashes the party in the hut, and Snoke shows how he caught Kylo out when he referred to his part in being a switchboard operator when he 'bridged' their Skype sessions.

So why did both keep it secret? As much as Rey hissed and spit at him like an angry kitten, the first couple of times, this after she left him scarred and battered on the forest floor, he just seemed so calm with her. It's like they both wanted to explore where this was going, without sharing it with any one else.
Did any one else pick up on this? Thoughts?

@Let The Past Die

I think Rey already keeps the majority of her cards close to her chest anyway, as a means of survival and plays them as she needs to and I believe Kylo/Ben has for a time been doing his own sort of thang, when he could, outside of Snoke, eg. taking Rey instead of the bot.

Regardless of any bridging that might have been done, I believe Ben and Rey are a layer of things, one being soulmates and the other the balance to the force, however the next movie is going to portray that. They are bending towards each other and the galaxy will mirror their image, somehow and they don't need to explain something to others when they know they are unwrapping a shared truth/destiny/fate that the two have together. I do believe that their love is beyond space and time and maybe Rey's time in the mirror cave hints at that.

Let The Past Die wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:[quote="Let The Past

Kylo:You'll bring Luke Skywalker to me.
- You're not doing this. The effort would kill you.
Can you see my surroundings?
Rey: You're gonna pay for what you did!
Kylo: I can't see yours. Just you. So, no.This is something else.
(DOOR OPENING)
 Luke.
Luke: What's that about?
Rey: I was cleaning my blaster. It went off.
Luke: Let's get started.

@Night Huntress

This is another observational question which I've remembered by seeing @Night Huntress  above quote.

I found it interesting that neither Rey nor Kylo told their 'mentors' about the force bond Skype connection they had. It would have been an ideal time for Rey to say to Luke that she'd seen Kylo, to ask Luke what it meant, but she instinctively keeps it secret.
Kylo asks Rey why is the force connecting them in the second force bond session, meaning he hadn't asked Snoke, his Master why it was happening, he would know Snoke would want to know that information. Again it appears they both are keeping it secret, so it's something just between the 2 of them. Rey gets caught out when Luke crashes the party in the hut, and Snoke shows how he caught Kylo out when he referred to his part in being a switchboard operator when he 'bridged' their Skype sessions.

So why did both keep it secret? As much as Rey hissed and spit at him like an angry kitten, the first couple of times, this after she left him scarred and battered on the forest floor, he just seemed so calm with her. It's like they both wanted to explore where this was going, without sharing it with any one else.
Did any one else pick up on this? Thoughts?

@Let The Past Die

I definitely did, right off the bat. Luke is right behind her and she lies to him about the hole in the hut wall.

I'm not surprised Ren hid it from Snoke. Ren apparently attempts to hide a lot from Snoke (call to the light, chats with Vader, his feelings for his father and his upset about killing his father, his feelings for Rey). Snoke ends up picking up on most of this because he has such incredible access to Ren's mind, and Ren know this ("Supreme Leader senses it."), but Ren seems to try anyway. That's a significant part of the reason that Ren is so mad when Snoke says he's been in on those Skype sessions. They probably felt like the one beautiful,  private thing in his life.

But Rey hiding the connection from Luke is much more interesting.  She talks a good game about hating him with every fiber of her being, but if she really did she would tell Luke because Luke would stop the connection.  But she doesn't tell Luke ... because maybe she doesn't want the connection to stop... because she "felt something too."

I don't think you were here, but we analyzed TFA extensively and many of us theorized that she was more furious at Ren about disappointing her than killing Han. She saw something else in his head that have her hope and when he killed Han she was crushed. She also shows feeling for him when he is bleeding on the snow, but immediately shoves it down and calls him a monster, almost like she is scolding herself.  The same can be said for the cliff side scene where she "lets it (him) in" (JJ's words), and if you watch that moment blue and red connect to make purple and she gets an ecstatic look on her face.  She enjoys that moment, but then she hates herself for that because he's "bad", and then beats the hell out of him as punishment for making her feel that.

So IMO, her lying to Luke is just continuation of those feelings that kept trying to shove down in TFA after she saw his face and connected with him in the interrogation.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Let The Past Die wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:[quote="Let The Past

Kylo:You'll bring Luke Skywalker to me.
- You're not doing this. The effort would kill you.
Can you see my surroundings?
Rey: You're gonna pay for what you did!
Kylo: I can't see yours. Just you. So, no.This is something else.
(DOOR OPENING)
 Luke.
Luke: What's that about?
Rey: I was cleaning my blaster. It went off.
Luke: Let's get started.

@Night Huntress

This is another observational question which I've remembered by seeing @Night Huntress  above quote.

I found it interesting that neither Rey nor Kylo told their 'mentors' about the force bond Skype connection they had. It would have been an ideal time for Rey to say to Luke that she'd seen Kylo, to ask Luke what it meant, but she instinctively keeps it secret.
Kylo asks Rey why is the force connecting them in the second force bond session, meaning he hadn't asked Snoke, his Master why it was happening, he would know Snoke would want to know that information. Again it appears they both are keeping it secret, so it's something just between the 2 of them. Rey gets caught out when Luke crashes the party in the hut, and Snoke shows how he caught Kylo out when he referred to his part in being a switchboard operator when he 'bridged' their Skype sessions.

So why did both keep it secret? As much as Rey hissed and spit at him like an angry kitten, the first couple of times, this after she left him scarred and battered on the forest floor, he just seemed so calm with her. It's like they both wanted to explore where this was going, without sharing it with any one else.
Did any one else pick up on this? Thoughts?

@Let The Past Die

I definitely did, right off the bat. Luke is right behind her and she lies to him about the hole in the hut wall.

I'm not surprised Ren hid it from Snoke. Ren apparently attempts to hide a lot from Snoke (call to the light, chats with Vader, his feelings for his father and his upset about killing his father, his feelings for Rey). Snoke ends up picking up on most of this because he has such incredible access to Ren's mind, and Ren know this ("Supreme Leader senses it."), but Ren seems to try anyway. That's a significant part of the reason that Ren is so mad when Snoke says he's been in on those Skype sessions. They probably felt like the one beautiful,  private thing in his life.

But Rey hiding the connection from Luke is much more interesting.  She talks a good game about hating him with every fiber of her being, but if she really did she would tell Luke because Luke would stop the connection.  But she doesn't tell Luke ... because maybe she doesn't want the connection to stop... because she "felt something too."

I don't think you were here, but we analyzed TFA extensively and many of us theorized that she was more furious at Ren about disappointing her than killing Han. She saw something else in his head that have her hope and when he killed Han she had was crushed. She also shows feeling for him when he is bleeding on the snow, but immediately shoves it down and calls him a monster, almost like she is scolding herself.  The same can be said for the cliff side scene where she "lets it (him) in" (JJ's words), and if you watch that moment blue and red connect to make purple and she gets an ecstatic look on her face.  She enjoys that moment, but then she hates herself for that because he's "bad", and then beats the hell out of him as punishment for making her feel that.

So IMO, her lying to Luke is just continuation of those feelings that kept trying to shove down in TFA after she saw his face and connected with him in the interrogation.

@SoloSideCousin

Yes, to the bit in bold, Rey's reasoning is much more interesting than Kylo's. I think she was definitely being led by her feelings.

Rey doesn't tell anyone anything, except Ben. I think he is the only one who will ever understand her. It will be interesting if the rebellion or Hux finds out about their skype sessions. Makes for a juicy story.

For those questioning Rey's motivations for not telling Luke or anyone about Kylo, this is a fabulous meta I came across today that I think explains why that might be so well. I highly recommend it!

http://getoffthesoapbox.tumblr.com/post/169394411772/swtlj-first-impressions-reys-trajectory

ZioRen wrote:For those questioning Rey's motivations for not telling Luke or anyone about Kylo, this is a fabulous meta I came across today that I think explains why that might be so well. I highly recommend it!

http://getoffthesoapbox.tumblr.com/post/169394411772/swtlj-first-impressions-reys-trajectory

@ZioRen

OMG! That really is incredible. This, along with @Reylo1992's meta, are the best post-TLJ write-ups on Rey that I have read. Now I need to read this woman's other essays! :-)

@ZioRen yes, that's really a good analysis - speaking of good analysis... where is Reylo1992? Haven't read anything from her in a while...

Let The Past Die wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:[quote="Let The Past

Kylo:You'll bring Luke Skywalker to me.
- You're not doing this. The effort would kill you.
Can you see my surroundings?
Rey: You're gonna pay for what you did!
Kylo: I can't see yours. Just you. So, no.This is something else.
(DOOR OPENING)
 Luke.
Luke: What's that about?
Rey: I was cleaning my blaster. It went off.
Luke: Let's get started.

@Night Huntress

This is another observational question which I've remembered by seeing @Night Huntress above quote.

I found it interesting that neither Rey nor Kylo told their 'mentors' about the force bond Skype connection they had. It would have been an ideal time for Rey to say to Luke that she'd seen Kylo, to ask Luke what it meant, but she instinctively keeps it secret.
Kylo asks Rey why is the force connecting them in the second force bond session, meaning he hadn't asked Snoke, his Master why it was happening, he would know Snoke would want to know that information. Again it appears they both are keeping it secret, so it's something just between the 2 of them. Rey gets caught out when Luke crashes the party in the hut, and Snoke shows how he caught Kylo out when he referred to his part in being a switchboard operator when he 'bridged' their Skype sessions.

So why did both keep it secret? As much as Rey hissed and spit at him like an angry kitten, the first couple of times, this after she left him scarred and battered on the forest floor, he just seemed so calm with her. It's like they both wanted to explore where this was going, without sharing it with any one else.
Did any one else pick up on this? Thoughts?

@Let The Past Die

Yes, I’ve always had the impression there’s more going on in their minds and between them that we’re not privy to...it explains why he never seems to resent her when she attacks him, and why she seems curious about him regardless of what he’s done.

I know the novels aren’t canon if they’re contradicted by the movies (and they probably contain some conjecture from the authors when needed), but I can’t wait to see what insight TLJ novel will provide us about Rey and Kylo’s feelings. We know TLJ novel is going to be a little different drom the movie just because of the nature of the medium so it will be interesting to see in what ways that is. I think the script (once it’s released) will provide us some further insight as well.

ZioRen wrote:For those questioning Rey's motivations for not telling Luke or anyone about Kylo, this is a fabulous meta I came across today that I think explains why that might be so well. I highly recommend it!

http://getoffthesoapbox.tumblr.com/post/169394411772/swtlj-first-impressions-reys-trajectory

@ZioRen

This was really wonderful--thank you for sharing it! (And I recommend that everyone else here give this a read.) The concluding paragraph was both really well-written and heartbreaking:

One might be forgiven for thinking, at the end of the film, that Rey has tossed Kylo aside and is determined to replace him with more “wholesome” choices. Yet under the surface, she’s back to her same old tricks–subsuming her true thoughts and feelings and hiding behind veils. Even when Leia approaches her and sits beside her, she distracts Leia with talk of Luke, despite Kylo being the one more prominently between them. Even now, Kylo is hers, not to be shared with anyone else. What happened between her and Kylo belongs to her alone. Yet it is this very trait of hers that is likely going to cause the greatest conflict in the next film–when the truth comes out, she’ll be in a world of trouble. At that time, her loyalties surely will be tested, and some startling revelations and truths may at last come to light.

@Kessel some things were in TFA novel at least that hinted (in my opinion) at events we saw in TLJ.

For example many thought Snoke wanted to train Rey and even replace Kylo as his new apprentice or whatever.

I never thought that... and the main reason was what was written in the novel.

Snoke "You have compassion for her"
Kylo: "No- never! Compassion for an enemy of the order?"
Snoke: "I perceive the problem. It isn't her strength that is making you fail- it is your weakness"
......blah blah
Snoke"Kylo Ren. It appears that a reminder is in order. So I will show you the dark side. Bring the girl to me."

I was sure Snoke wanted Kylo to kill her- even if this dialogue wasn't fully in the movie. And I'm sure Kylo knew that as well.
That's why he isn't to thrilled when she ships herself to the Supremacy but he has no other choice than bring her to Snoke - that's why he seems so detached and quiet... he tries to make up a plan how to handle the situation.

Night Huntress wrote:@Kessel some things were in TFA novel at least that hinted (in my opinion) at events we saw in TLJ.

For example many thought Snoke wanted to train Rey and even replace Kylo as his new apprentice or whatever.

I never thought that... and the main reason was what was written in the novel.

Snoke "You have compassion for her"
Kylo: "No- never! Compassion for an enemy of the order?"
Snoke: "I perceive the problem. It isn't her strength that is making you fail- it is your weakness"
......blah blah
Snoke"Kylo Ren. It appears that a reminder is in order. So I will show you the dark side. Bring the girl to me."

I was sure Snoke wanted Kylo to kill her- even if this dialogue wasn't fully in the movie. And I'm sure Kylo knew that as well.
That's why he isn't to thrilled when she ships herself to the Supremacy but he has no other choice than bring her to Snoke - that's why he seems so detached and quiet... he tries to make up a plan how to handle the situation.

@Night Huntress

He really did handle that whole situation beautifully. The stress over something like that would be tremendous. Yet another reason he started to crack when he actually got a look at Snoke's body.

I don't think he really knew what he was going to do afterwards. He just wanted to keep her alive. And to do so was traumatic for him, so it's no surprise he has this rush of chaotic thought when he sees Snoke's body.

Saw TLJ again and finally spotted the moment when Kylo gets the idea about the double lightsaber action - it's when he watches his lightsaber spin on the floor. I'm really pleased that the movie showed that Kylo can be really smart and observant when he keeps his cool. It all goes out of the window though when his mind is clouded with rage, like in the final stand-off with Luke.

That explanation for the shirtless scene - that the viewers needed to know that Rey could actually see Kylo - is even more lame considering that in their very first ForceSkype, Rey shoots at him before they exchange a word. So why would she do that if she couldn't physically see him, hmmm? This whole "Kylo was totally shirtless for a serious reason" in the media is one of the most bizarre reactions to the movie, I swear.

Saracene wrote:Saw TLJ again and finally spotted the moment when Kylo gets the idea about the double lightsaber action - it's when he watches his lightsaber spin on the floor. I'm really pleased that the movie showed that Kylo can be really smart and observant when he keeps his cool. It all goes out of the window though when his mind is clouded with rage, like in the final stand-off with Luke.

@Saracene

Ooh that's interesting to know, I can't wait until we can get the dvd, and go frame by frame to see all the little nuances that passed us by.

Thinking of that whole scene from when she arrives in her space coffin, looking as close to a Disney Princess as she can. When we see her face after smoke clears, she's staring out all full typical Rey optimism (If it was me, I'd be terrified as I'd just landed on Snokes ship, my face would be showing terror, my eyes would be bulging out my sockets I can tell you... Lol) She is so full of confidence, in her plan because of the vision she saw. I find it funny when she spots her Prince's Kylo's face, and her eyebrows drop in minor confusion.

The way he looks at her, you can see the gears working in his brain, thinking how he's going to deal with her and Snoke.

Then the elevator, her confidence returns, he's trying to remain distanced and focused. She calls him Ben, and you can see him visually lose the straight faced mask, his face goes all lovely and soft (and we get some lovely gifs  of his sweet puppy eyes) then she slides into his personal space.... That scene was pure bliss.

You know his heart must have dropped when she arrived. We had earlier in the film, where he goes to stand against Snoke, Snoke force pushes him away, Kylo knows it's going to be dangerous in the throne room, I'm not sure that he knows Snoke will try to kill her either, because I remember thinking Snoke wanted her to go to the dark side, so I presumed Kylo would think this too.

I think once Kylo realised where this was headed for Rey, he had to do some strategic thinking. So we'll spotted @Saracene  for noticing the moment he got the idea. I've been wondering at what point he knew what he was going to do.

When Rey, pulled his saber to her, and he didn't flinch an inch, he just watched, the PG started to take up arms in the background if I remember rightly, if Kylo had any loyalty to Snoke he would has risen off the floor.
Its been good to refresh that scene out loud so to speak. I've clarified some points for myself... Lol

Hi all,
I get so lost on this forum sometimes.. can someone help me?
In the last few days I saw a link to an article about star wars and 'the self' - but I wasn't able to look at it then, and now I can't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction for where to find this?
Many thanks!

DeeBee wrote:Hi all,
I get so lost on this forum sometimes.. can someone help me?
In the last few days I saw a link to an article about star wars and 'the self' - but I wasn't able to look at it then, and now I can't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction for where to find this?
Many thanks!

@DeeBee

LOL

I can just say that you're not the only one. If that helps. I've been lost in here for thousands time in the past month.

@DeeBee


@snufkin posted it in the Professional Reviews and Articles thread

https://daily.jstor.org/last-jedi-twisted-theory-self/

@DeeBee- the easiest way to find something on here is to use this search string on Google site:http://reylo.skyforum.net and any keywords or phrases you remember from the discussion. Easiest way to find something another forum member posted is to select the View User Profile icon at the bottom of their profile, select that, once it opens up the Viewing profile: User Name menu, Select the Statistics tab and from there select Find all messages posted by Username.

The name of the book is “A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis”,  by Sigmund Freud

There’s still another gem, LOL. Read this:

  Exquisite symbolic representations of onanism are sliding and coasting.

How about this one? All of us thinking Kylo was sliding like a four-year old and perhaps, figuratively he was “sliding” like a fourteen-year-old, LOL.
Not every scene can have Freudian easter eggs hidden in it but Rian is naughty. Who knows?

@SoloSideCousin


@Reynak

Thank you for all your insight and analysis!  Gives me a whole new appreciation for his line during that scene when he says he can't see anything else,
only her (and not her surroundings)!

Also, I just want to thank all the members of this forum for your wonderful contributions!  It has made all the difference for me enjoying this movie!  I have seen the movie 4 times already (planning a 5th) and reading what everyone here has posted and the beautifully written metas and thoughtful analysis have truly enriched each and every viewing I have had!  I cannot wait to be able to actually own TLJ in a couple of months so I can  take the time to stop, pause, rewind, etc and really dig into it with all the knowledge I gave gained from you all!! Many, many thanks to you all!

KnightsofReylo_2015 wrote:

The name of the book is “A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis”,  by Sigmund Freud

There’s still another gem, LOL. Read this:

  Exquisite symbolic representations of onanism are sliding and coasting.

How about this one? All of us thinking Kylo was sliding like a four-year old and perhaps, figuratively he was “sliding” like a fourteen-year-old, LOL.
Not every scene can have Freudian easter eggs hidden in it but Rian is naughty. Who knows?

@SoloSideCousin


@Reynak

Thank you for all your insight and analysis!  Gives me a whole new appreciation for his line during that scene when he says he can't see anything else,
only her (and not her surroundings)!

Also, I just want to thank all the members of this forum for your wonderful contributions!  It has made all the difference for me enjoying this movie!  I have seen the movie 4 times already (planning a 5th) and reading what everyone here has posted and the beautifully written metas and thoughtful analysis have truly enriched each and every viewing I have had!  I cannot wait to be able to actually own TLJ in a couple of months so I can  take the time to stop, pause, rewind, etc and really dig into it with all the knowledge I gave gained from you all!! Many, many thanks to you all!

@KnightsofReylo_2015

I’m glad you liked the analysis. There are great posts on this board. Things that might seem overreaching not long ago ended up being right. It’s great. The best about being here is sharing. You may be right about something and share it here and other people will show you things that flew over your head.

Someone asked me if Kylo could see the Falcon when Rey closed the door on him on Crait and I’m not sure what to think. He did flinch when the door closed but it’s not clear whether or not he saw the ship.

I think it doesn’t really matter how much he can see and when he says he can’t see her surroundings what matters is that he says “ I can’t see yours (surroundings)... only you. The way he says it is damn romantic, the inflection of his voice, the pause before ONLY YOU. That’s not a coincidence.

It can’t help him much to see and island that is who knows where. Or maybe he wants to find out where she is but he doesn’t seem so interested in that, not when he sees her. The enormity of what’s happening obliterates all the rest. Everything revolves around them both, the Force and their incredible connection. What’s more, she is what matters to him. It’s all about her. Damn romatic in itself.

I think that there’s a deliberate parallelism between the Force ( which is what binds all the things that exist in an endless circle of life) and sex. Sex seen as the source of life and creation, something primal and transcendental. As this is a coming of age story this makes sense. The awakening they talk about refers to the Force, but it’s also about Rey becoming a woman and discovering her “powers”, both as a Force user and as a female who can feel, enjoy life and also create life.

Kylo is nearly thirty and coded as a virgin (this is canon now, according to Rian). It’s not common to shun physical pleasure if he is no longer a jedi but it’s as if he was waiting for her, all covered up in black clothes from head to toe because the Force won’t have it any other way. When Snoke berates and humiliates Kylo at the beginning of TLJ he tells him Skywalker is alive and is the seed of the Jedi and there’s still hope.

These are strange words for Snoke to say. He is supposed to sound threatening but he is using positive words: “alive, seed, hope”. Rian is using Snoke to deliver a message for the audience, unwittingly, because this isn’t Snoke’s intention. The message, IMO, is that the Skywalker who will become the seed of the jedi, the hope that’s still alive is Ben Solo. He is a young man after all, and not an older man whose prime is long past.

Words are important for writers, they choose them very carefully, and I think Rian is telling us, the audience, to look at this young man, who has much of his father’s heart in him, but is also the last Skywalker and is called Ben after Ben Kenobi. “You’re my only hope”, this is what Leia said in her message to Obi Wan/Ben Kenobi).

Han said “My son is alive” when Kylo told him his son was dead. Alive, Ben Solo Skywalker is alive.

Seed is a word that is related to hope, life and also sex. If we bear in mind how much male and female imagery there is in the movie, I think the use of the word seed is hinting at Ben’s role as hope for the galaxy and also that he’ll have new Skywalker babies. He is the legacy,after all.

When he offers Rey to join him he never mentions the Dark Side, he offers to show her the ways of the Force (TFA) and then to start a “new order” for the galaxy together. No mention of the Firs Order or the Dark Side. Perhaps he will become the seed of a new Jedi? order that accepts both Light and Darkness.

When I heard Luke say to Ben he wouldn’t be the last jedi, the camera focused on Rey, but I had the feeling this last jedi is Ben. I’m not sure why but I think this is possible. Rey is Force Sensitive, like Leia, but never trained or was a padawan. Ben was a padawan for years, he was a jedi apprentice and then a Dark Side apprentice but never completed his training, neither in the Light nor the Dark Side. So he’s still a novice, isn’t he? He never became a jedi monk or a commited Dark Sider. This means there’s a chance to come back for him. His destiny isn’t set in stone, not yet.

Luke became a jedi and ended as a jedi. Anakin became a sith and had to die to find redemptions but he didn’t live to stop being a sith. Perhaps it isn’t possible. Kylo is an apprentice, he can still choose.

That symbology of onanism may not have been Rian’s intention, but what if it was? It’s possible because all Ben and Rey’s encounters have been sexually charged and happened when they both were alone either in nature or in a room, but one invaded the privacy of the other when they were alone and pensive. I didn’t think of the possibility until I found the onanism reference. If these two have awakened at the same time, did the Force connect them when they wanted the other, when they longed for the other physically and in the end, also emotionally?

Did Kylo’s desire call to Rey unintentionally in their first connection? His face lit up whe he saw her. She freaked out and shoot him but he seemed nearly happy to see the girl who cut his face open. The droid was treating his wounds and maybe he was thinking of the girl who gave them to him. And he run after her, sliding on the corridor. If there’s a subtext of desire an want on his part, reading his slide symbolically as onanism makes sense in this context. Was he taking care of has own sexual needs, seeking relief? This would be subtext, mind you, or maybe it’s just a coincidence and he was just sliding,period.

In the next scene she is wet, because of the rain and he is like a tempting monster/snake. We all know what the subtext implies here. Sexy times although nothing really happens literally. Maybe the other scene is also charged. Perhaps.