Predictions for Episode 9

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:So with the reveal today that the Han and Lando novel will feature Leia and a 'very young Ben Solo' I find the timeline very interesting. There's gotta be a reason why he's either always a baby/in the womb/very young child or an adult with Luke stuck in an unknown part of the galaxy and incommunicado.

@Kylo Rey

Right. Because we're going to find out more about him in Episode IX, and whatever it is, they want it in the movie, and they want Adam Driver to play it. I used to want more about Ben in the books because I was eager, but after TLJ and getting the shock of what Luke did, I want to see Adam play the next big thing.

@SoloSideCousin

Post-TLJ, my headcanon has been that Ben got sent to Luke when he was around 9 or 10, based on some loss-of-control-of-the-Force incident, likely where Ben used the dark side without realizing it.

Rey's birth would follow shortly after this incident--"darkness rises, and light to meet it".

And if Ben did get sent to Luke at such a young age, it would explain why we'd only see a very young Ben Solo in the books so far. (At least, until they publish their Ben and Luke series of adventures, which I'm convinced they've got in the works to be released after IX.)

giaciak2 wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:there are mysteries that JJ must explain to us

the mistery box
why Rey hears the voices, why kenobi calls her.
why the lightsaber calls Rey
even the connection between kylo and Rey is not 100% clear at least for me. what exactly are they. I want them to say kylo and Rey are......
even if you tell me that they are light and darkness, two sides of the force
you do not tell me what this connection means. i want know everything in detail maybe you an help me

@Teo Oswald

Right!.
In which scene does Rey tell Kenobi? I lost it!

@giaciak2

no no Obi wan kenobi calls her
she didn't do it

With the announcement of the Han-Lando book featuring our one and only Little Baby Ben-Ben (sorry not sorry ), I'm wondering if Lando himself will play into IX. People have been wondering where he's been since TFA came out. Now there's all this interest with him having such a prominent role in Solo. Maybe he can vouch for redeemed Ben at the end of IX even before magical Force Ghost Luke shows up, and point out that this was what Han died trying to accomplish, so let the poor man live.

I am acquiring too many headcanons as of late.

californiagirl wrote:With the announcement of the Han-Lando book featuring our one and only Little Baby Ben-Ben (sorry not sorry ), I'm wondering if Lando himself will play into IX. People have been wondering where he's been since TFA came out. Now there's all this interest with him having such a prominent role in Solo. Maybe he can vouch for redeemed Ben at the end of IX even before magical Force Ghost Luke shows up, and point out that this was what Han died trying to accomplish, so let the poor man live.

I am acquiring too many headcanons as of late.

@californiagirl

Or maybe Uncle Lando hides Ben at one point in the movie if Hux and the FO find out what actually happened in the throne room. I like the idea of Ben (or Rey and Ben together) going into hiding for a bit with Lando's help. Imagine all the smuggling shenanigans and ESB callbacks we would get! Just like his dad Han, our Ben would be

rawpowah wrote:

californiagirl wrote:With the announcement of the Han-Lando book featuring our one and only Little Baby Ben-Ben (sorry not sorry ), I'm wondering if Lando himself will play into IX. People have been wondering where he's been since TFA came out. Now there's all this interest with him having such a prominent role in Solo. Maybe he can vouch for redeemed Ben at the end of IX even before magical Force Ghost Luke shows up, and point out that this was what Han died trying to accomplish, so let the poor man live.

I am acquiring too many headcanons as of late.

@californiagirl

Or maybe Uncle Lando hides Ben at one point in the movie if Hux and the FO find out what actually happened in the throne room. I like the idea of Ben (or Rey and Ben together) going into hiding for a bit with Lando's help. Imagine all the smuggling shenanigans and ESB callbacks we would get! Just like his dad Han, our Ben would be

@rawpowah

Oh that would be so awesome! And Billy Dee will totally rock!

Some of the statements that J.J. made today got me thinking a bit. He emphasized (the obvious) that the four main characters are: Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo Ren.

I believe this has been discussed before, but we see all the characters in question start out on Jakku, correct? Three out of those four are masked (Rey, Finn, and Kylo) only to remove those masks later on in the film. "Demasking" suggests character growth and transformation. Only Poe does not start out wearing a mask.

Conclusion: Poe's character doesn't undergo enough transformation in these films, therefore, he dies.

(Do we see Hux on Jakku at the beginning as well? Can't remember.)

SoloSideCousin wrote:

rawpowah wrote:

californiagirl wrote:With the announcement of the Han-Lando book featuring our one and only Little Baby Ben-Ben (sorry not sorry ), I'm wondering if Lando himself will play into IX. People have been wondering where he's been since TFA came out. Now there's all this interest with him having such a prominent role in Solo. Maybe he can vouch for redeemed Ben at the end of IX even before magical Force Ghost Luke shows up, and point out that this was what Han died trying to accomplish, so let the poor man live.

I am acquiring too many headcanons as of late.

@californiagirl

Or maybe Uncle Lando hides Ben at one point in the movie if Hux and the FO find out what actually happened in the throne room. I like the idea of Ben (or Rey and Ben together) going into hiding for a bit with Lando's help. Imagine all the smuggling shenanigans and ESB callbacks we would get! Just like his dad Han, our Ben would be

@rawpowah

Oh that would be so awesome! And Billy Dee will totally rock!

@SoloSideCousin

Whoooo interesting! I'd love to see cloud city again!
I heard BDW is old and in poor health - and that it would be unlikely for him to appear in IX. No idea where I heard that- is it true?

We could get a very small cameo of Lando handing Ben some old holo of Han and Leia together cooing over their pride and joy baby Benny.
That would be adorable!
I also wondered if instead of seeing Lando, we could see a child of Lando's having taken over running cloud city..
[and let the is Finn Lando's son speculation begin ]

Now that we're missing most of the OT players and Carrie sadly cannot be back, bringing Lando back would actually be pretty awesome. And he's another person who knew Ben in his youth, and something about Han and Leia as parents no doubt, so there would be something meaningful there! Lando having a moment of forgiveness for Kylo in place of his mother who cannot anymore would help set the tone of "Kylo healing from and reconciling with his past" that won't be as easy to set without Leia around.

I mean, I doubt it would happen but what I'm trying to say is I think it could be great if it did.

nickandnora wrote:Some of the statements that J.J. made today got me thinking a bit. He emphasized (the obvious) that the four main characters are: Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo Ren.

I believe this has been discussed before, but we see all the characters in question start out on Jakku, correct? Three out of those four are masked (Rey, Finn, and Kylo) only to remove those masks later on in the film. "Demasking" suggests character growth and transformation. Only Poe does not start out wearing a mask.

Conclusion: Poe's character doesn't undergo enough transformation in these films, therefore, he dies.

(Do we see Hux on Jakku at the beginning as well? Can't remember.)

@nickandnora

I think Poe will live. He didn't have an unmasking or much development in TFA because he was originally supposed to die in THAT movie. They set him up as a future leader figure in TLJ, so it would be odd if he kicked the bucket so soon. Not sure if an early death would have much dramatic impact either.

Also, I'm a little sad JJ didn't mention Rose. But I still maintain hope she will give support and kickbutt friendship.

californiagirl wrote:

nickandnora wrote:Some of the statements that J.J. made today got me thinking a bit. He emphasized (the obvious) that the four main characters are: Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo Ren.

I believe this has been discussed before, but we see all the characters in question start out on Jakku, correct? Three out of those four are masked (Rey, Finn, and Kylo) only to remove those masks later on in the film. "Demasking" suggests character growth and transformation. Only Poe does not start out wearing a mask.

Conclusion: Poe's character doesn't undergo enough transformation in these films, therefore, he dies.

(Do we see Hux on Jakku at the beginning as well? Can't remember.)

@nickandnora

I think Poe will live. He didn't have an unmasking or much development in TFA because he was originally supposed to die in THAT movie. They set him up as a future leader figure in TLJ, so it would be odd if he kicked the bucket so soon. Not sure if an early death would have much dramatic impact either.

Also, I'm a little sad JJ didn't mention Rose. But I still maintain hope she will give support and kickbutt friendship.

@californiagirl

Rose is definitely going to have something to do with Poe, seeing as their ideologies are totally opposite to each other right now. If this is non-risky Star Wars (which it probably is) they'll probably eventually balance each other out and thus both become good leader(ish) figures in their own right. If this is risky Star Wars, they could have the female snuffing out the toxic male and replacing him, literally (as opposed to the symbolic way in which Rey will likely "snuff out" the more Kylo Ren-ian aspect of Ben Solo). I'm not going to lie that me really wanting to see the latter causes me to theorize the ways in which it could happen, even if it's not too likely for Star Wars. But it still might be up in the air, since Poe was such a nebulous character to begin with.

One argument in its favour... J.J. just basically admitted that it's imbalanced. You have three males to one female. He said it himself. If he's seriously about balance, one of those males needs to go and be replaced.

(ETA: Though come to think of it, the toxic male that will be snuffed out is probably just Hux.)

I've said this before, but why exactly do people view Poe's "burn the FO down" in a negative way?

No one ever won a war without aggressive destructive actions even though sometimes it is wiser to avoid a fight. The Republic is not going to get restored without destroying the FO first. And even Rose sure as heck doesn't include anyone from the FO on the list of those she loves.

I don't really view it in a literally negative way for the reasons you said, more in the sense that the writing framed it as one extreme interpretation of Holdo's message while Rose's could be considered the other extreme. Obviously those extremes must be balanced. (I just hope it will come with some good conflict first).

Yeah the FO is going to go down, so Poe isn't exactly wrong to say it in those terms. I've seen theories that Kylo will reform the First Order into a force for good but I can't see it happening that way. There's way, WAY too much bad blood there and even if Kylo tries to be a benevolent leader, he's done enough damage that he shouldn't be the leader of any political faction in the galaxy. Who would accept that?

IX will most likely be about "burning the First Order down". What Rose was saying is that they have to differ in their motivations. Burn it all down for the purpose of protecting your loved ones first and foremost, not just out of anger or revenge. I saw the quote as more about why you fight than how you fight. But at the same time, it would change things still because those motivations would mean no meaningless sacrifices just to get a hit back. We're still going to get plenty of pew pew pew and dogfights and all manners of such violence in IX, of that I'm sure.

I got no sense from Poe though that he's fighting out of anger or revenge (we in fact get nothing about his personal motivations). He's rash and reckless at the start, but that's something different.

And yeah SW is never going to be, benevolent dictatorship yay.

DeeBee wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

rawpowah wrote:

californiagirl wrote:With the announcement of the Han-Lando book featuring our one and only Little Baby Ben-Ben (sorry not sorry ), I'm wondering if Lando himself will play into IX. People have been wondering where he's been since TFA came out. Now there's all this interest with him having such a prominent role in Solo. Maybe he can vouch for redeemed Ben at the end of IX even before magical Force Ghost Luke shows up, and point out that this was what Han died trying to accomplish, so let the poor man live.

I am acquiring too many headcanons as of late.

@californiagirl

Or maybe Uncle Lando hides Ben at one point in the movie if Hux and the FO find out what actually happened in the throne room. I like the idea of Ben (or Rey and Ben together) going into hiding for a bit with Lando's help. Imagine all the smuggling shenanigans and ESB callbacks we would get! Just like his dad Han, our Ben would be

@rawpowah

Oh that would be so awesome! And Billy Dee will totally rock!

@SoloSideCousin

Whoooo interesting! I'd love to see cloud city again!
I heard BDW is old and in poor health - and that it would be unlikely for him to appear in IX. No idea where I heard that- is it true?

We could get a very small cameo of Lando handing Ben some old holo of Han and Leia together cooing over their pride and joy baby Benny.
That would be adorable!
I also wondered if instead of seeing Lando, we could see a child of Lando's having taken over running cloud city..
[and let the is Finn Lando's son speculation begin ]

@DeeBee

I think Billy Dee has some mobility issues, but he did turn up at Star Wars Celebration, and he still does voice acting for Rebels.  I think that they could still bring him in.  Lando would still be the coolest guy in the Galaxy with all the best connections and all the smarts even if he and his cape were cruising around in a GFFA version of a wheelchair.  Also, they could just have him sit on some luxurious couch the whole time.  I mean you know that Lando would have people to help him carry out his wishes. He had Lobot didn't he.  The man knows when to delegate.

ZioRen wrote:Yeah the FO is going to go down, so Poe isn't exactly wrong to say it in those terms. I've seen theories that Kylo will reform the First Order into a force for good but I can't see it happening that way. There's way, WAY too much bad blood there and even if Kylo tries to be a benevolent leader, he's done enough damage that he shouldn't be the leader of any political faction in the galaxy. Who would accept that?

@ZioRen
Yeah, this is why I'm not even really a fan of "Kylo tries to bring the FO down from the inside" theory either. For one, I think it's too complicated for Star Wars. For another, I think it's too complicated for the place we're at in the trilogy with one film left (especially with where Kylo's headspace is right now). Honestly, Hux's coup is the best idea we can hope for as Kylo fans because it will expediate whatever needs to happen to Kylo, on a personal level, by removing him forcibly from the whole power equation. As I mentioned in another thread, I think the most we can expect for Kylo being some kind of agent of reformation (just as far as the FO goes) is inadvertently allowing the Resistance to regroup by effectively doing nothing as Supreme Leader out of depression. I'm totally fine with that.

Saracene wrote:I got no sense from Poe though that he's fighting out of anger or revenge (we in fact get nothing about his personal motivations). He's rash and reckless at the start, but that's something different.

And yeah SW is never going to be, benevolent dictatorship yay.

@Saracene
Yeah, this morning I'm back to: "Poe will live and evolve into a great leader. He's Oscar Isaac." He still needs some work, and I really hope the finale addresses the issue of the troubling way in which the females are enabling him thus far (which I hope is subverted once he butts up against the kickass combination of Rose and Rey), but they all still need some work I guess.

As to the Kylo taking down the First Order from within idea, I'm torn about if I want him to succeed or not. As said above, it would be a little complicated, and if he was successful, the only reason he was able to do that was by seizing power in the first place. It's more that he would more easily win over an audience that thinks he's pure evil darksider and wants him to die if he is already actively trying to dismantle the FO of his own volition. People need to believe his redemption, and given that we've already taken the multi-movie approach here, a sudden transition spurred on by someone else may not be the best look. Some people don'even believe Vader's redemption, which was kind of the whole point of the movie, that his legacy would be the sparing of Luke and the future Jedi Order and the downfall of the Empire, but whatever. Kylo just needs to have clearly realized he has been a bad boy and the FO is a broken system and be trying to do something about it in order to render him more sympathetic.

why would it be so complicated for Ben to bring the FO down from the inside? They don't need to strict a big complicated political conspiracy...I can think of a few ways he could do that very simply by passing information to the resistance/rebellion or manipulating whatever plan Hux has. Playing different big dogs in the FA against each other so they're more focused on fighting their political rival than conquering the galaxy.

I mean the prequels were much more complicated in that regard in my opinion

I agree that Kylo has to DO SOMETHING to deserve redemption. He has to have agency in order for his arc to work, not just be saved by Rey et al.

I can see him in a deeply depressed state at the beginning of EpIX (possibly during a force bond scene after Leia’s death?), and after that things begin to change within him. I think the Hux/Kylo dynamic has been set up beautifully for them to take it further in IX — Hux’s baleful stare at the end of TLJ as Kylo walks into the makeshift Resistance war room in Crait was super emotive of what’s going on within him (that Domnhall is fantastic!), and Kylo will have a problem with it sooner than later, IMO.

there is no victory without sacrifice, we have seen this in many films, the lord of the rings, the war films....


burning the FO down does not mean literally kill everyone
but dissolve the organization, dismantle it from inside or outside.
this is how I see it.

because if you think about it, if the rebellion defeats the FO, the good defeats the bad guys and then there is peace, we return to the finals of the previous episodes, in other words
nothing would change.

instead of killing people, in which hate brings more hate, we must collaborate, a truce, something that balances the two factions

@TeoOswald All you write is right ! I agree!

I can imagine Kylo trying to take down the First Order from the inside. I think he MUST choose love over power and that choice is taken away from him if he's ousted by a coup and ONLY THEN decides to "turn" for Rey (just like I think taking his Force powers away at the end cheapens the point of his redemption and takes the choice to control himself and do good out of his hands, the "easy" path essentially). So Kylo eventually trying to or facilitating a takedown of the FO as an inside job makes sense to me.

It's Kylo trying and succeeding in reforming the FO and them forming into some benevolent, lasting force for future stories that I find entirely unbelievable. I've seen that idea thrown around in other places and I don't see it happening that way. I think the idea stems from people thinking that the path Kylo is on right now isn't completely wrong but I think we're supposed to think it is.

Kylo trying to dismantle the FO makes no sense to me, because he needs its military power. He was offering Rey to rule the galaxy together, not "let's restore democracy together". If you want to be in control, you need an army, simple as that. I think it's safe to say that at this point power is not what Kylo *really* wants, but, well, that's all he has and I think he'll cling to it.

I can see Hux's coup and giving-up-power-for-love interwoven, if let's say Hux zeroes in on Kylo's emotional weakness for Rey.

@Saracene

I can understand your thought but kylo needs military power because he wants to destroy the rebels. He wanted Rey by his side
but the rebels must be destroyed. She did not accept his proposal  because of her friends . Having an army is comfortable to fight them.

If kylo uses the army against the rebels and the rebels clash with the FO, there is nothing new in this new episode IX  because they are events already seen in the previous finals

If instead this episode IX will be different from all the episodes there will be no more an ending with the good that triumphs and the evil is dead because otherwise it would start all over again, but there will be an event in which this time the evil is still alive but collaborates with the good.
this is a new thing, that's why I believe that the first order will be dismantled.

ps: about Hux , maybe he will die, who knows...

ZioRen wrote:I can imagine Kylo trying to take down the First Order from the inside. I think he MUST choose love over power and that choice is taken away from him if he's ousted by a coup and ONLY THEN decides to "turn" for Rey (just like I think taking his Force powers away at the end cheapens the point of his redemption and takes the choice to control himself and do good out of his hands, the "easy" path essentially). So Kylo eventually trying to or facilitating a takedown of the FO as an inside job makes sense to me.

It's Kylo trying and succeeding in reforming the FO and them forming into some benevolent, lasting force for future stories that I find entirely unbelievable. I've seen that idea thrown around in other places and I don't see it happening that way. I think the idea stems from people thinking that the path Kylo is on right now isn't completely wrong but I think we're supposed to think it is.

@ZioRen

I agree. First of all, Kylo needs to straighten himself out for himself and not for Rey. If he gives up every idea he ever had for Rey, he will only turn into her appendage.

Second, if Hux ousts him before he starts making better choices for himself, then Kylo will look like he just became better because he didn't have any other options.

Third, like @"Two Oswald" has been saying, something needs to be different about this ending. That means that Kylo is going to have add some value to the new system and not just completely capitulate to the Rebellion.