Predictions for Episode 9

rawpowah wrote:

ZioRen wrote:Obi Wan appearing to Kylo makes a good deal of sense. Kylo is named after him, after all, and TLJ had more than a little emphasis on Kylo as a "hope" like his namesake. They even dropped Leia's famous hologram message back in there as a reminder. I think that scene played double duty in getting Luke out his funk and reminding the audience about the message to Obi Wan.

@ZioRen

In theory I wouldn't be opposed to a cameo from Obiwan, but in practice I don't know how that would work. Kylo has no emotional attachment to Obiwan and has never met him. He doesn't really mean anything to Kylo. It has the chance of veering into fan service territory. I would compare it to Snoke = Darth Plagueis or Rey = Obiwan's granddaughter. Cool idea, but it doesn't really mean anything to the new characters.

I'd be much more in favor of Anakin making an appearance, since Kylo idolizes him and Anakin could talk some sense into his grandson and help him fix his love life. There are a lot of parallels between the two and, if empathized clearly in the movie, they would add greatly to Kylo's character development.

@rawpowah

True, though to play devil's advocate, Obi-Wan speaking directly to Rey in her vision (and actually addressing her by name) technically has the same level of insignificance, but they still included it (and I totally am not saying this to open a whole can of worms about Rey Kenobi or mystery boxes, just pointing something out).

I guess I just like the idea that if we're leading to some grand climax that culminates in Force-balance and centers around Ben Solo, we're going to see the final "players" that were responsible for putting the pieces in motion that led up to that climax, if that makes sense. And Obi-Wan was a key player. That's just my own personal preference though.

@nickandnora

We only heard Obiwan in that vision for about 2 seconds. That's totally different from actually having the character appear on screen for several minutes and interact with Rey and/or Kylo. And the vision itself was more in my opinion about linking Rey to the Force and the Skywalkers (Luke and Ben), as opposed to linking her to Obiwan.

Let's say Obiwan appears on screen and he'll be like: "Hi, Rey! I know you don't know who I am, but you heard me talk to you for like two seconds in your vision." And Rey's just going to be like: "....Idk you, but cool story bro....".

I'm not opposed to Obiwan, but I just don't see a reason for him to appear when IX will need to cover a lot of ground as far as more pressing matters are concerned.

rawpowah wrote:@nickandnora

We only heard Obiwan in that vision for about 2 seconds. That's totally different from actually having the character appear on screen for several minutes and interact with Rey and/or Kylo. And the vision itself was more in my opinion about linking Rey to the Force and the Skywalkers (Luke and Ben), as opposed to linking her to Obiwan.

Let's say Obiwan appears on screen and he'll be like: "Hi, Rey! I know you don't know who I am, but you heard me talk to you for like two seconds in your vision." And Rey's just going to be like: "....Idk you, but cool story bro....".

I'm not opposed to Obiwan, but I just don't see a reason for him to appear when IX will need to cover a lot of ground as far as more pressing matters are concerned.

@rawpowah
It's very true. I suppose it really depends on what Kylo Ren is actually *doing* during Act I or II (especially Act II) of the next film. If the common coup-by-Hux idea is correct, what does the aftermath of that look like for Kylo? If he's with Rey or the Resistance or interacting with other members of the FO, then I agree that there's basically no point at which an appearance by Obi-Wan wouldn't seemed shoe-horned and extraneous. But if Kylo is isolated and/or imprisoned, I can see them needing to fill that empty space with interactions, because they're not just going to close the door on their best actor (Adam) and be like: "See you in Act III I guess!"

God, so many possibilities it makes one's head spin.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Irina de France wrote:

nickandnora wrote:I think Luke's probably going to reappear as a Force ghost (to Kylo, not Rey), but hopefully just once. I personally think anymore than that would be overkill. Luke's story on this earthly plain is over; his role should now be akin to Obiwan in RotJ, or Yoda in TLJ (that is to say it should be profound, but brief).

@nickandnora

Yeah, I mean, no offense to people who think so, but I don't really see why Luke would appear to Rey. It's not like they got along all that well, and part of Rey's arc in TLJ was to realize that Luke Skywalker was not who she expected to be. Luke and Ben have TONS of history together, however. And their final confrontation in TLJ was a big moment in both their stories, but there is still a certain closure needed there - for several reasons.

@Irina de France

The “See you around kid” is without a doubt foreshadowing Luke coming back to Ben as a Force Ghost. Given the fact that I had a hard time deciphering how Luke and Rey were the beating heart of the trilogy as Rian put it last summer (which I believe now to be a Reywalker red herring), I don’t see why Luke would appear to Rey. He however would totally appear to Ben. Given too he’s onto Rey and Ben’s little secret, I can see him realizing his mistake and actually pushing Ben towards her this time around.

@IoJovi

I think the "See ya around kid" was absolutely foreshadowing that we'll see Luke as a Force Ghost in IX.

But I also think that they'll use him sparingly--we'll see Luke in one, maybe two, scenes, but those scenes will be absolutely pivotal (like Yoda appearing to Luke in TLJ).

@ISeeAnIsland

Most definitely. A Force Ghost, even one as iconic and beloved as Luke, isn’t going to have the same amount of screen time that he would if he were alive and in the flesh. I can see him having screen time similar to Obi Wan Kenobi in RotJ, although if it’s with Ben I’m sure it’ll be a bit more tense.

there are mysteries that JJ must explain to us

the mistery box
why Rey hears the voices, why kenobi calls her.
why the lightsaber calls Rey
even the connection between kylo and Rey is not 100% clear at least for me. what exactly are they. I want them to say kylo and Rey are......
even if you tell me that they are light and darkness, two sides of the force
you do not tell me what this connection means. i want know everything in detail maybe you an help me

I think one of the points of TLJ was that Luke is not the main character anymore. It would diminish the impact of his death if he shows up in IX too much. I think one or two scenes could be impactful. I would like him to show up near the very end to vouch for Ben, give a few words of wisdom and encouragement, give his blessing, not be grumpy, then disappear, leaving everyone in awe.

@nickandnora There are other force ghosts Kylo can interact with that are much more important to him personally than Obiwan, such as Luke and Anakin. So yeah to add a third, and one that doesn't have an emotional connection to Kylo, would be a shoehorn. There's always a chance that this idea of force ghosts might be overused and too repetitive. And on top of all that, he can still interact with Rey through the force. So, really, there's no risk of IX not having anything for Adam to do at one point.

Irina de France wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

Irina de France wrote:

nickandnora wrote:I think Luke's probably going to reappear as a Force ghost (to Kylo, not Rey), but hopefully just once. I personally think anymore than that would be overkill. Luke's story on this earthly plain is over; his role should now be akin to Obiwan in RotJ, or Yoda in TLJ (that is to say it should be profound, but brief).

@nickandnora

Yeah, I mean, no offense to people who think so, but I don't really see why Luke would appear to Rey. It's not like they got along all that well, and part of Rey's arc in TLJ was to realize that Luke Skywalker was not who she expected to be. Luke and Ben have TONS of history together, however. And their final confrontation in TLJ was a big moment in both their stories, but there is still a certain closure needed there - for several reasons.

@Irina de France

And if the Knights of Ren have a decent amount of presence and J.J. follows through on Rian's hint about their past as former Luke students, there's places they could go with that. Luke has things to accomplish with Kylo that he doesn't really with Rey. What more does he have to teach her than what he already has? Even Yoda acknowledged that Rey pretty much has everything she needs and it's up to her from there.

Of course, I don't think Luke is going to take on a huge mentorship position for either of them, since the point of TLJ was to push Rey and Kylo out of the student stage so mentors no longer factor in. That's all Luke really could be for Rey, though, while he still has things to resolve as an uncle, not teacher, to Kylo.

@ZioRen

Exactly! Rey and Ben's story being coming-of-age stories, the whole point for them is to let go of their search for protection and mentor figures and become their own person, all the while finding each other as equals. And that's one of the reasons why they "split up" in TLJ: they weren't ready to be truly equals with each other.

@Irina de France

I’m far from the first person to say this, but I’ve been twitchy waiting for Anakin to appear to Kylo since The Force Awakens. I do think there has to be some closure between Luke and Kylo—presumably brief, as you guys have said, like Yoda with Luke. Maybe when Ben is down and fading? Because he has to do something sacrificial and heroic in IX, and maybe when he’s suffering because of it, and his anger at himself and Luke has passed, Luke will return in a way that isn’t taunting or trolling. But I think it would make sense to have Anakin show up earlier, when Kylo is still KYLO and is still conflicted. When he’s still trying to tell himself that he’s angry at Rey and that being Supreme Leader is worth it. Anakin has been there, done that—been the instrument of the death of the love of his life. I don’t think he has to say much to make it clear that he wishes he had chosen love over power.

This isn't *exactly* a prediction, and I've mentioned this before on other threads, but it just occurred to me today that I'm going to be seriously, seriously, seriously pissed if in IX we don't get a good female friendship with Rose/Rey (not just glimmers of a friendship that we had in Holdo/Leia, like an actual friendship) especially since they set it up so well with the loss of Rose's sister. Seriously J.J., I know you're a guy, but you've been pulling so heavily from female literature so far, I have hope you won't let me down. Please.

(I'm not even sure why I feel so strongly about this, but it's probably because I've been listening to the SW Connection podcast and I think it just hit me that all of those female coming of age stories have, you know, females interacting meaningfully with females. And Star Wars hasn't historically had this at all. We're definitely finally getting small hints, but it needs more. MORE! )

I'd love to see a friendship between Rey and Rose, I guess it depends on whether the writers can think of a dramatic value to the friendship and whether they can make Rey's friendship with Rose feel different to her relationship with Finn, which has already been established in the very first film. She'd pretty much meet Rose through Finn, so it's uncertain whether she'll see Rose as a friend in her own right. There's also the fact that Rose had zero interaction or connection with Kylo, unlike Finn.

Sign me up for the Rey/Rose friendship.

I doubt it will get more focus than the already established friendship between Rey and Finn in the movie, but it's certainly possible to establish Rey and Rose as having a sweet friendship.

@nickandnora @Saracene @rawpowah

Completely agree 100%. I think older Star Wars films are used so often as examples of films that don't pass the Bechdel Test and the ST is trying to change that.

In this case, I would happily enjoy a plain old girly friendship between Rose and Rey. The only real interactions Rey has had with a female so far is with Leia and Maz, both representing the older female figures with maternal callbacks. In the same way that Luke and Han's friendship went, I'd like to see the same develop Rey and Rose (minus Finn being the centre of it). It's part of a coming of age story, as well as bringing in female friendships to the general, all-demographics audience (and not just in female-targeted funny bridesmaidsy, girl power movies). Actually, add Connix into the mix as well, that'd be fun! Okay, I'm hoping for too much.

I'm also hoping for a Rey/Rose friendship... often we see jealousy and/or false friendships between woman in big blockbuster.
Like women aren't capable of having a great relationship with another woman without ulterior motives.

Also I think Rey needs a female friend for...you know. Girl talk

Saracene wrote:I'd love to see a friendship between Rey and Rose, I guess it depends on whether the writers can think of a dramatic value to the friendship and whether they can make Rey's friendship with Rose feel different to her relationship with Finn, which has already been established in the very first film. She'd pretty much meet Rose through Finn, so it's uncertain whether she'll see Rose as a friend in her own right. There's also the fact that Rose had zero interaction or connection with Kylo, unlike Finn.

@Saracene

I agree with you.  I can only think of two ways at the moment where Rey's friendship with Rose would not be really overwhelmed by Finn.  The one avenue would be for Rey to be pretty damn embedded in the Resistance, thereby giving her enough time and opportunity to make friends with Rose in any kind of real way.  If they put Rey with the Resistance for any kind of significant period of time, then they are crazy, and they might as well turn it completely into the Kylo movie because the Resistance is so tedious that Rey will just be drowned by them.

However, I don't think they are crazy. I think that they know that Rey with Kylo is where her character really shines, as opposed to with Poe, etc.  

But with Rose's "save what we love" line, juxtaposed to Poe's "burn the FO" line, which mangles Holdo's "restore the Republic" line, I think that there is a possibility that Rose could be that "link" or "crossover" person, in that she could be the first person from the Rebellion to see that Kylo may not be all bad.  This will be particularly possible if Poe goes all zealot about destruction.  Rose is zealous, but not in a destructive way.  She is more about "protecting" (''my sister died protecting the fleet") and making things better ("now it was worth it", with freeing the falthier).  If Kylo ends up being on the better side of things, Rose may not be particularly ideological.  She just wants to stop bad things from happening to people.  If Kylo looks like he is doing that, she may be the first one to give him a chance, and that could be where a Rey/Rose friendship develops.  And honestly, I would love for Rose and Kylo to be in scenes together.  She'll be this little spitfire and he will be like, "what is happening????!!!!!" Lol!

@SoloSideCousin I don't know if I'd take Rose's "saving what we love" as any kind of indicator, when she was completely onboard with the plan to destroy the giant canon (forgot what it was called in the film) before it became obvious that the whole thing was hopeless. Considering how determined she looked to smash it down just a few minutes before, her line about not destroying those we hate really makes no sense. And then there was also her line about wanting to put her fist through Canto Bight.

Saracene wrote:@SoloSideCousin I don't know if I'd take Rose's "saving what we love" as any kind of indicator, when she was completely onboard with the plan to destroy the giant canon (forgot what it was called in the film) before it became obvious that the whole thing was hopeless, so considering how determined she looked to smash it down just a few minutes before her line really makes no sense. And then there was also her line about wanting to put her fist through Canto Bight.

@Saracene

well, she wanted to destroy that giant - I call it door-opener - a weapon and not living breathing people.
I don't remember her saying that about Canto Bight. But I don't think she meant that literally while I understand why she would feel that way.

I do think Rose could be a voice of reason and not being happy with Poe's leadership.

I've just mentioned on another thread, how I've really enjoyed reading this thread. But I've yet to commit to putting anything down. I've read so many good ideas that I kept changing my mind  over the different possibilities. In fact if almost the brilliant ideas on this thread came to fruition, we'd be packing our lunches for going to watch IX as it would be an extremely long film with many hours worth of story in there (one can dream.. Lol)

I felt I wanted to try to make sense of what's whirling around my head, so have had a brainstorming session. My A4 page looks a real jumbled up spider's web  of a mess. I have the words Hope, Family and Belonging in the  middle, key characters around the edges.

I've started with how I think how an individual character may end how the story overall may end. I've put what I know about each character, lines they've said etc. How each character interacts with another.
I'm hoping by doing this, I'll have my own ideas of where the story goes. I'm even going to watch the Prequels again so I can be reminded of the story myself and the comparisons, I only have seen them once.

I'll just finish on some things I'd like to see, obviously it's a given a Reylo endgame, and I'd like a heart wrenching redemption for Ben, so there is no misunderstanding that he deserves happiness.

A favourite of many, and that is seeing Kylo flying
the MF.

Some sort of understanding between Chewie and Kylo, hopefully with Kylo being smothered in a Chewie hug.

I'd actually like to see Kylo and Rey have some adventure or joint purpose to work together, something like both sides are searching for something, for eg the Kazerath Device (just linking in @DeeBee who sparked my interest in the device in the first place) although the device is probably red herring from the comics, the idea is the same, they are both looking for something. This would give them some good screen time together.
I also  have this picture in my mind of Kylo
in his TIE fighter, and Rey in the MF facing off each other,  a cat and mouse type  chase showing off both their piloting skills.
Because I want to see Kylo on the MF, I'm trying to envisage how and why he would end up in it, other than flying off into the sunset, so maybe one or the other crash lands in their cat and mouse chase. MF is the ship they get away in, after their adventure for looking for something.

It now seems more Indiana Jones, than Star Wars.  

Catching up on all the comments and there are simply so many things JJ can do and (has to do imo) with Kylo, that I really worry there might not be enough time in the movie to do them all. I hope the Resistance doesn't take up too much screen time and Rey leaves them quickly to do her thing. I might be exaggerating, but honestly if you cut out the other storylines and just focus on the Kylo show or even the Reylo show, you'll still have enough material for a 2.5 hour movie with 20 minutes worth of deleted scenes lol.

rawpowah wrote:Catching up on all the comments and there are simply so many things JJ can do and (has to do imo) with Kylo, that I really worry there might not be enough time in the movie to do them all. I hope the Resistance doesn't take up too much screen time and Rey leaves them quickly to do her thing. I might be exaggerating, but honestly if you cut out the other storylines and just focus on the Kylo show or even the Reylo show, you'll still have enough material for a 2.5 hour movie with 20 minutes worth of deleted scenes lol.

@rawpowah

I know it's a bit of a worry. In an ideal world, I would just want all the main scenes with Rey and Ben, with about 20 minutes fill in of everything else... Lol

Seriously though, when I started to list all the main characters and their interactions with other characters. You realise screen time has to be given to them. Just take   Rose and Finn as an example  we saw how she felt towards Finn at the end. But what about Finn how does he feel, how is their secondary romance going to play out, they need time build on their relationship, then you have how to deal with General Leia's, Poe, Hux, the FO, the reistence/rebellion, will the Jedi texts play a part, the obligatory space battle, suddenly, I'm thinking when are we going to see Rey and Ben... There are so many things that are left to play out, it is worrying that it will be to the expense of Rey and Ben.

I'm sure someone will have worked out the actual percentage of screen time Rey and Ben were together, it didn't seem a lot of time in 2 and half hours. Although the time they did spend was epic.  

I'm all for a long and lengthy film to fit everything in, so long as I can have a pause for a bathroom break at an appropriate break  

I think Rey never had a woman friend. and then look at Rose's face, how can one say no to her friendship. and moreover about feelings
Rose knows more than Rey. So Rose will teach what love means, "Art of love " Both are intelligent and competent. They will be good friends Rey prepare yourself , Rose is coming

The funny thing is, when I step back and try to look at it objectively (which I hope J.J. will also do), I have to ask myself, "What more can be gotten out of Finn/Rey's friendship?" The answer might actually be... not much more than we have already seen. I kind of liken it to that *intense* childhood friendship you had with someone because of proximity (like they lived next door to you), but then they move away before the formative years are actually over. And you see each other years later and it's nice and you'll always have that connection to them, but there's not much more to it than that, you know? Add to it that Finn is a guy. I actually believe that male-female friendships are harder to sustain after a certain point if they don't become romantic (or if they are sustained they require a group dynamic to continue, though there are certainly exceptions). I'm not trying to say that's what these films are going for, specifically, but if the writers are thinking about it honestly, I hope that comes up in their brainstorms at some point.

Speaking just within the confines of the film itself, yes, Finn and Rey have an established friendship from film #1. Yes, he knew Kylo. But that latter point might actually be the problem. I mean, Finn's a great human being who came from questionable beginnings as well. As such, I believe that Finn likely has the capacity to forgive Kylo if he really set his mind to it. He might even believe him capable of changing. But understanding that Rey is now in love with him? That might be a stretch for him given their shared history. You know who would understand it though? Another woman.

That is all to say: Gimme Rey/Rose. Gimme. GIMME!

Teo oswald wrote:there are mysteries that JJ must explain to us

the mistery box
why Rey hears the voices, why kenobi calls her.
why the lightsaber calls Rey
even the connection between kylo and Rey is not 100% clear at least for me. what exactly are they. I want them to say kylo and Rey are......
even if you tell me that they are light and darkness, two sides of the force
you do not tell me what this connection means. i want know everything in detail maybe you an help me

@Teo Oswald

Right!.
In which scene does Rey tell Kenobi? I lost it!

There will absolutely be a friendship between Rey and Rose in IX for two good reasons I can think of

1.


2. JJ's writing it and one of the best parts of Felicity was her friendships with characters like Elena, Megan, and even the annoying Julie.

So with the reveal today that the Han and Lando novel will feature Leia and a 'very young Ben Solo' I find the timeline very interesting. There's gotta be a reason why he's either always a baby/in the womb/very young child or an adult with Luke stuck in an unknown part of the galaxy and incommunicado.

Kylo Rey wrote:So with the reveal today that the Han and Lando novel will feature Leia and a 'very young Ben Solo' I find the timeline very interesting. There's gotta be a reason why he's either always a baby/in the womb/very young child or an adult with Luke stuck in an unknown part of the galaxy and incommunicado.

@Kylo Rey

Right. Because we're going to find out more about him in Episode IX, and whatever it is, they want it in the movie, and they want Adam Driver to play it. I used to want more about Ben in the books because I was eager, but after TLJ and getting the shock of what Luke did, I want to see Adam play the next big thing.