Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

@DeeBee

The database is not always symetrical in the sense that you’re going to find things about a character in another’s character profile but not in their own. It’s been a while since I was in that database so I have no other example to give, but I remember noticing that. I think they went with what is the most relevant for each character and it’d be boring if they were just repeating stuff from one character to the other. Finn’s “awakening” is what started Rey’s journey so I am not surprised it shows up in Rey’s profile.

SanghaRen wrote:@DeeBee

The database is not always symetrical in the sense that you’re going to find things about a character in another’s character profile but not in their own. It’s been a while since I was in that database so I have no other example to give, but I remember noticing that. I think they went with what is the most relevant for each character and it’d be boring if they were just repeating stuff from one character to the other. Finn’s “awakening” is what started Rey’s journey so I am not surprised it shows up in Rey’s profile.

@SanghaRen

Hiya! Yeah you are right about the database.. It has some gems but it is pretty uneven..
Reading Leia's entry there was nothing about her raising her son, sending him off with Luke or anything. The content on Leia and the first order is very thin. Curious.. One last thing I found curious: they consistently refer to her as Princess, and not General.
Not saying it will mean something.. only that it is curious ...

I will not have long to wait to find out if 'the force' has a special destiny in mind for Finn

DeeBee wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:@DeeBee

The database is not always symetrical in the sense that you’re going to find things about a character in another’s character profile but not in their own. It’s been a while since I was in that database so I have no other example to give, but I remember noticing that. I think they went with what is the most relevant for each character and it’d be boring if they were just repeating stuff from one character to the other. Finn’s “awakening” is what started Rey’s journey so I am not surprised it shows up in Rey’s profile.

@SanghaRen

Hiya! Yeah you are right about the database.. It has some gems but it is pretty uneven..
Reading Leia's entry there was nothing about her raising her son, sending him off with Luke or anything. The content on Leia and the first order is very thin. Curious.. One last thing I found curious: they consistently refer to her as Princess, and not General.
Not saying it will mean something.. only that it is curious ...

I will not have long to wait to find out if 'the force' has a special destiny in mind for Finn

@DeeBee

If LST's opinion is anything to go by, a lot of people in the Galaxy might see Leia more like a Princess. Besides fans who sees Leia as Princess.

As for Finn. Force shaped his destiny, it lives in all living things in the Galaxy. I wouldn't be surprised if Force guides Finn, Poe and did before that with Han. Force truly works in a mysterious way.

sorry if already discussed but I couldn't read all tread.

do we know when will Finn awake in TLJ? I remember someone said not in very beginning.

and we have this shot where he is in coma and on background something like hyperspace jump (though this gif is croped I think),


maybe is's d'qar evacuation ?
(there will be evacuation during d'qar battle, right?)
do we have proof that he will awake before d'qar?

Re: finngate. Is it a gate yet? XD

It's been ridiculous. Having watched the new tv spot I see nothing to change the status quo, so I'm baffled by FinnReys celebrating "Jedi Finn" and FinnRey confirmation, and I'm baffled by Reylos fearing FinnRey and thinking there is going to be some kind of love triangle, that Kylo Ren's standing as potential lover of Rey has been diminished. What was shown in the ad makes perfect sense to me.

And I like Finn very much, but he's not one of my top Star Wars characters - even so it seems like I want better things for him than his so-called adoring fans? So I want him to have his own fleshed out character arc, his own personal motivations for choosing to do things, rather than having him default to chasing after Rey again. I want him to start out focused on Rey and on running away when he wakes up from his coma, because anything else wouldn't be credible to me - but I don't want him to continue in that way for the duration of the movie, and I especially don't want him to end up back at square one. I want him to evolve, to think of himself as a fully formed person in his own right, not just a runaway stormtrooper outsider and I don't need him to become a Jedi in order to validate his character.

Apparently that is bad??

Also, I do think there is a hint of misdirection in how the tv spot is being promoted on social media. Putting "he finally has a reason to fight" or whatever under a picture of Rey is misleading. Yah, he has a reason to fight - but he's been fighting for Rey, not for himself or for what he believes in, going back to TFA. How is that new or different? I feel like if you put two and two together it becomes obvious that they're telling us he will have a reason of his own to fight for.



For me it makes most sense to think he will fight for his own (newly forged) ideals because he will likely end up believing in what the Resistance is doing and what it stands for. It also makes sense that he might fight to protect Rose, though I'm less interested in that aspect of it as a motivator to him because it would just be Rey 2.0. I much prefer the idea of Rose challenging him to live up to the image of "Hero" that he's earned with his exploits on SK Base.

Anyway, I'm going to cannibalize a bit from a post I made on Tumblr yesterday regarding Finn. It's basically why I hate the idea of a love triangle/rectangle:

Seriously Rey and Kylo Ren have enough to work out between them without any Finnrey drama, and Finn’s got bigger fish to fry.

To wit:

• Patching up the ginormous tear in the back of Poe’s his cool leather jacket.
  
• Learning how to pilot a ship.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Rose.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Poe.
  
• Smiting Phasma.
  
• Tearing down the FO’s baby kidnapping program.
  
• Liberating Stormtroopers.
  
• Being able to sing "Because the greaaaaatest looooove of all is happening to meeeee - I found the greaaaatest love of all inside of ME" and feeling it and believing it. Poor Finn and Kylo Ren are more similar than they both think, with all that self-loathing they are both carrying around. :/
  

"Anything else?" XD

I honestly can't believe this is a thing either. John said like 4 months ago that Finn was going to wake up and immediately want to find Rey (and it makes total sense in context as well). I would have written it the same way.

I'm baffled at why Finn waking up and being concerned about Rey not only came as a surprise, but also caused mini meltdowns (and apparently Finn/Rey and Jedi Finn celebrating). Cherrypicking at its finest, as if John hasn't also said Finn and Rey never established a romance and that the romance would not go in that direction and also that Finn and Rey wouldn't be sharing a lot of screen-time together in TLJ.

At this point it feels like people are worrying for the sake of it, haha.

@Darth Rowan
"Finn’s got bigger fish to fry.

To wit:


Patching up the ginormous tear in the back of Poe’s his cool leather jacket."  

hahahahaha, I love how that's the first bullet point on your list! priorities!

To be fair, I've seen many, many more people being like "why the heck are Reylos freaking out over the TV spot???" than I've seen Reylos actually freaking out over the TV spot.

Darth Rowan wrote:Re: finngate. Is it a gate yet? XD

It's been ridiculous. Having watched the new tv spot I see nothing to change the status quo, so I'm baffled by FinnReys celebrating "Jedi Finn" and FinnRey confirmation, and I'm baffled by Reylos fearing FinnRey and thinking there is going to be some kind of love triangle, that Kylo Ren's standing as potential lover of Rey has been diminished. What was shown in the ad makes perfect sense to me.

And I like Finn very much, but he's not one of my top Star Wars characters - even so it seems like I want better things for him than his so-called adoring fans? So I want him to have his own fleshed out character arc, his own personal motivations for choosing to do things, rather than having him default to chasing after Rey again. I want him to start out focused on Rey and on running away when he wakes up from his coma, because anything else wouldn't be credible to me - but I don't want him to continue in that way for the duration of the movie, and I especially don't want him to end up back at square one. I want him to evolve, to think of himself as a fully formed person in his own right, not just a runaway stormtrooper outsider and I don't need him to become a Jedi in order to validate his character.

Apparently that is bad??

Also, I do think there is a hint of misdirection in how the tv spot is being promoted on social media. Putting "he finally has a reason to fight" or whatever under a picture of Rey is misleading. Yah, he has a reason to fight - but he's been fighting for Rey, not for himself or for what he believes in, going back to TFA. How is that new or different? I feel like if you put two and two together it becomes obvious that they're telling us he will have a reason of his own to fight for.



For me it makes most sense to think he will fight for his own (newly forged) ideals because he will likely end up believing in what the Resistance is doing and what it stands for. It also makes sense that he might fight to protect Rose, though I'm less interested in that aspect of it as a motivator to him because it would just be Rey 2.0. I much prefer the idea of Rose challenging him to live up to the image of "Hero" that he's earned with his exploits on SK Base.

Anyway, I'm going to cannibalize a bit from a post I made on Tumblr yesterday regarding Finn. It's basically why I hate the idea of a love triangle/rectangle:

Seriously Rey and Kylo Ren have enough to work out between them without any Finnrey drama, and Finn’s got bigger fish to fry.

To wit:

• Patching up the ginormous tear in the back of Poe’s his cool leather jacket.
  
• Learning how to pilot a ship.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Rose.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Poe.
  
• Smiting Phasma.
  
• Tearing down the FO’s baby kidnapping program.
  
• Liberating Stormtroopers.
  
• Being able to sing "Because the greaaaaatest looooove of all is happening to meeeee - I found the greaaaatest love of all inside of ME" and feeling it and believing it. Poor Finn and Kylo Ren are more similar than they both think, with all that self-loathing they are both carrying around. :/
  

"Anything else?" XD

@Darth Rowan

I do agree about Rey being presented as “Finn’s reason to fight” in the tv spot as misleading, but other than that, I had no problem with it. Like you, I also want better things for Finn than him simply being Rey’s comedic side kick. The guy is an awol stormtrooper for crying out loud. There’s so much more potential they could do with that than what’s been given to him thus far. He and Rose infiltrating that star destroyer gives me much hope that his background will be picked up, and not swept under the rug as a minor forgotten detail. Finn obviously has inside knowledge that will work in the Reaistance’s favor. Not only that, I’d like to see the struggle be a bit more well defined in regards to someone who has recently switched allegiances.

I hadn't heard about anyone freaking out until now, but I do know that part of the Reylo community is very sensitive and very insecure, especially the younger people who don't have as much confidence in their analysis, so I wouldn't be surprised if the TV spot scares them, cause everything scares them, and deep down, some people still think Reylo is a crack ship too good to be true. But I think that's a minority.

This spot does focus on both Finn and Rey, so I can see how some FinnReys could get excited about it. I think the spot does misdirect in the sense that it doesn't show Rose. That said, Rey and Finn's relationship is important for the ST and I believe and hope that it will continue to be explored, and not simply swept under the rug. So it makes a lot of sense.

IoJovi wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:Re: finngate. Is it a gate yet? XD

It's been ridiculous. Having watched the new tv spot I see nothing to change the status quo, so I'm baffled by FinnReys celebrating "Jedi Finn" and FinnRey confirmation, and I'm baffled by Reylos fearing FinnRey and thinking there is going to be some kind of love triangle, that Kylo Ren's standing as potential lover of Rey has been diminished. What was shown in the ad makes perfect sense to me.

And I like Finn very much, but he's not one of my top Star Wars characters - even so it seems like I want better things for him than his so-called adoring fans? So I want him to have his own fleshed out character arc, his own personal motivations for choosing to do things, rather than having him default to chasing after Rey again. I want him to start out focused on Rey and on running away when he wakes up from his coma, because anything else wouldn't be credible to me - but I don't want him to continue in that way for the duration of the movie, and I especially don't want him to end up back at square one. I want him to evolve, to think of himself as a fully formed person in his own right, not just a runaway stormtrooper outsider and I don't need him to become a Jedi in order to validate his character.

Apparently that is bad??

Also, I do think there is a hint of misdirection in how the tv spot is being promoted on social media. Putting "he finally has a reason to fight" or whatever under a picture of Rey is misleading. Yah, he has a reason to fight - but he's been fighting for Rey, not for himself or for what he believes in, going back to TFA. How is that new or different? I feel like if you put two and two together it becomes obvious that they're telling us he will have a reason of his own to fight for.



For me it makes most sense to think he will fight for his own (newly forged) ideals because he will likely end up believing in what the Resistance is doing and what it stands for. It also makes sense that he might fight to protect Rose, though I'm less interested in that aspect of it as a motivator to him because it would just be Rey 2.0. I much prefer the idea of Rose challenging him to live up to the image of "Hero" that he's earned with his exploits on SK Base.

Anyway, I'm going to cannibalize a bit from a post I made on Tumblr yesterday regarding Finn. It's basically why I hate the idea of a love triangle/rectangle:

Seriously Rey and Kylo Ren have enough to work out between them without any Finnrey drama, and Finn’s got bigger fish to fry.

To wit:

• Patching up the ginormous tear in the back of Poe’s his cool leather jacket.
  
• Learning how to pilot a ship.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Rose.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Poe.
  
• Smiting Phasma.
  
• Tearing down the FO’s baby kidnapping program.
  
• Liberating Stormtroopers.
  
• Being able to sing "Because the greaaaaatest looooove of all is happening to meeeee - I found the greaaaatest love of all inside of ME" and feeling it and believing it. Poor Finn and Kylo Ren are more similar than they both think, with all that self-loathing they are both carrying around. :/
  

"Anything else?" XD

@Darth Rowan

I do agree about Rey being presented as “Finn’s reason to fight” in the tv spot as misleading, but other than that, I had no problem with it. Like you, I also want better things for Finn than him simply being Rey’s comedic side kick. The guy is an awol stormtrooper for crying out loud. There’s so much more potential they could do with that than what’s been given to him thus far. He and Rose infiltrating that star destroyer gives me much hope that his background will be picked up, and not swept under the rug as a minor forgotten detail. Finn obviously has inside knowledge that will work in the Reaistance’s favor. Not only that, I’d like to see the struggle be a bit more well defined in regards to someone who has recently switched allegiances.

@IoJovi

IoJovi wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:Re: finngate. Is it a gate yet? XD

It's been ridiculous. Having watched the new tv spot I see nothing to change the status quo, so I'm baffled by FinnReys celebrating "Jedi Finn" and FinnRey confirmation, and I'm baffled by Reylos fearing FinnRey and thinking there is going to be some kind of love triangle, that Kylo Ren's standing as potential lover of Rey has been diminished. What was shown in the ad makes perfect sense to me.

And I like Finn very much, but he's not one of my top Star Wars characters - even so it seems like I want better things for him than his so-called adoring fans? So I want him to have his own fleshed out character arc, his own personal motivations for choosing to do things, rather than having him default to chasing after Rey again. I want him to start out focused on Rey and on running away when he wakes up from his coma, because anything else wouldn't be credible to me - but I don't want him to continue in that way for the duration of the movie, and I especially don't want him to end up back at square one. I want him to evolve, to think of himself as a fully formed person in his own right, not just a runaway stormtrooper outsider and I don't need him to become a Jedi in order to validate his character.

Apparently that is bad??

Also, I do think there is a hint of misdirection in how the tv spot is being promoted on social media. Putting "he finally has a reason to fight" or whatever under a picture of Rey is misleading. Yah, he has a reason to fight - but he's been fighting for Rey, not for himself or for what he believes in, going back to TFA. How is that new or different? I feel like if you put two and two together it becomes obvious that they're telling us he will have a reason of his own to fight for.



For me it makes most sense to think he will fight for his own (newly forged) ideals because he will likely end up believing in what the Resistance is doing and what it stands for. It also makes sense that he might fight to protect Rose, though I'm less interested in that aspect of it as a motivator to him because it would just be Rey 2.0. I much prefer the idea of Rose challenging him to live up to the image of "Hero" that he's earned with his exploits on SK Base.

Anyway, I'm going to cannibalize a bit from a post I made on Tumblr yesterday regarding Finn. It's basically why I hate the idea of a love triangle/rectangle:

Seriously Rey and Kylo Ren have enough to work out between them without any Finnrey drama, and Finn’s got bigger fish to fry.

To wit:

• Patching up the ginormous tear in the back of Poe’s his cool leather jacket.
  
• Learning how to pilot a ship.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Rose.
  
• Resolving sexy tension with Poe.
  
• Smiting Phasma.
  
• Tearing down the FO’s baby kidnapping program.
  
• Liberating Stormtroopers.
  
• Being able to sing "Because the greaaaaatest looooove of all is happening to meeeee - I found the greaaaatest love of all inside of ME" and feeling it and believing it. Poor Finn and Kylo Ren are more similar than they both think, with all that self-loathing they are both carrying around. :/
  

"Anything else?" XD

@Darth Rowan

I do agree about Rey being presented as “Finn’s reason to fight” in the tv spot as misleading, but other than that, I had no problem with it. Like you, I also want better things for Finn than him simply being Rey’s comedic side kick. The guy is an awol stormtrooper for crying out loud. There’s so much more potential they could do with that than what’s been given to him thus far. He and Rose infiltrating that star destroyer gives me much hope that his background will be picked up, and not swept under the rug as a minor forgotten detail. Finn obviously has inside knowledge that will work in the Reaistance’s favor. Not only that, I’d like to see the struggle be a bit more well defined in regards to someone who has recently switched allegiances.

@IoJovi

About what you both point out, an interesting tumblr post inreaction to the TV spot:
https://reylo1992.tumblr.com/post/167646124088/disparatepeace-seeing-the-new-tv-spots-involving

Honestly I don't blame Finnreys. Yesterday was their day. It doesn't change anything about Reylo that Finn would be concerned by how his friend is doing. And Finn indeed had some crush on Rey in TFA so the TV spot shows us how Finn's journey begins. And the movie will show how Finn will rise as a hero instead of being in Rey's shadow. But I am not so surprised by the reactions of some people. You know, I met with friends today and one of them considered Finn as the hero alongside with Rey. He saw the film once two years ago. So it really shows once again that the movie is misleading at a first sight and that you need to analyze it to get to the point.

reylo1992 wrote:


About what you both point out, an interesting tumblr post inreaction to the TV spot:
https://reylo1992.tumblr.com/post/167646124088/disparatepeace-seeing-the-new-tv-spots-involving

Honestly I don't blame Finnreys. Yesterday was their day. It doesn't change anything about Reylo that Finn would be concerned by how his friend is doing. And Finn indeed had some crush on Rey in TFA so the TV spot shows us how Finn's journey begins. And the movie will show how Finn will rise as a hero instead of being in Rey's shadow. But I am not so surprised by the reactions of some people. You know, I met with friends today and one of them considered Finn as the hero alongside with Rey. He saw the film once two years ago. So it really shows once again that the movie is misleading at a first sight and that you need to analyze it to get to the point.

@reylo1992

Lots and lots of people still think Rey and Finn are the heroes or the two leads. Many people think they are the two leads in equal standing, and that's what this TV spot shows. But that's 1 spot out of a bunch!

While I found that the main trailer had too much of force plot and too little of resistance plot, I think they are trying to adjust people's expectations. Finn's small head on the poster should have been a clue, for example.

OTOH, I think the marketing has to cater to Finn fans as well. So they're doing that. And yeah, I can see how people would still think FinnRey are a thing, if they haven't been keeping up with interviews. I bet a bunch of people have never heard of JB debunking FinnRey, for example. So it's normal. As to the SW fans who still believe in FinnRey, well, no words. But then, many of them still believe in Reywalker, so whatever.

I'm thinking maybe they want Finn/Rose romance to come as a surprise to the GA. At least that's what we're getting (or not getting) in the trailers and TV spots.

Finn kept and patched up Poe's jacket even though Kylo cut holes in it and Finn could have easily gotten a new jacket from the Resistance. That's so adorable! As a Stormpilot shipper it really makes me happy, though I don't have much hope for this ship because of Finnrose. I guess the jacket was just the first gift Finn ever received, therefore he doesn't want to part with it. It's still adorable.

Forsythia wrote:

Finn kept and patched up Poe's jacket even though Kylo cut holes in it and Finn could have easily gotten a new jacket from the Resistance. That's so adorable! As a Stormpilot shipper it really makes me happy, though I don't have much hope for this ship because of Finnrose. I guess the jacket was just the first gift Finn ever received, therefore he doesn't want to part with it. It's still adorable.

@Forsythia

Ask myself in which circumstances he will lose it because he wears it on Canto Bight but neither on Supremacy nor on Crait. And what does it mean in regard to his character development? Own identity revealing? Colder relationship with Poe? Nothing in particular?

Forsythia wrote:

Finn kept and patched up Poe's jacket even though Kylo cut holes in it and Finn could have easily gotten a new jacket from the Resistance. That's so adorable! As a Stormpilot shipper it really makes me happy, though I don't have much hope for this ship because of Finnrose. I guess the jacket was just the first gift Finn ever received, therefore he doesn't want to part with it. It's still adorable.

@Forsythia

Finn looks really good here! JB played him youthful and a bit lost in TFA. But here he's all Big Deal and serious business. I love the confidence he exudes looking down his nose and all that.

I'm really expecting Finn to blow up at Rey if he finds out she allies with Kylo at some point. He seems determined to end everything FO related, especially Kylo.

reylo1992 wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

Finn kept and patched up Poe's jacket even though Kylo cut holes in it and Finn could have easily gotten a new jacket from the Resistance. That's so adorable! As a Stormpilot shipper it really makes me happy, though I don't have much hope for this ship because of Finnrose. I guess the jacket was just the first gift Finn ever received, therefore he doesn't want to part with it. It's still adorable.

@Forsythia

Ask myself in which circumstances he will lose it because he wears it on Canto Bight but neither on Supremacy nor on Crait. And what does it mean in regard to his character development? Own identity revealing? Colder relationship with Poe? Nothing in particular?

@reylo1992
I hadn't thought about that possibility but it makes sense. Poe seemed so angry and determined to fight the FO in the trailer. What if he accidentally hurts or endangers Rose in the process? (or maybe her sister?)

Thoughts about Finn in TLJ?  

I know their mission failed-- but as Rachael at Star Wars Nonsense has pointed out, so did everyone's.  I loved the growth of Finn's character-- from trying to escape (picking up where TFA left off) to helping out to being willing to sacrifice himself for the cause-- starting out because of Rey, obviously, but then his willingness to take on a suicide mission even when Rey's safety was no longer an issue.  I loved his fight with Phasma, the determination in his face as he walks out there to meet his fate.  And I really enjoyed his relationship with Rose.  I really appreciated him no longer being a scared child who just wanted to flee.

Lily Snape wrote:Thoughts about Finn in TLJ?  

I know their mission failed-- but as Rachael at Star Wars Nonsense has pointed out, so did everyone's.  I loved the growth of Finn's character-- from trying to escape (picking up where TFA left off) to helping out to being willing to sacrifice himself for the cause-- starting out because of Rey, obviously, but then his willingness to take on a suicide mission even when Rey's safety was no longer an issue.  I loved his fight with Phasma, the determination in his face as he walks out there to meet his fate.  And I really enjoyed his relationship with Rose.  I really appreciated him no longer being a scared child who just wanted to flee.

@Lily Snape

Great idea to start a character thread Lily Snape

At the moment, I don't find Finn's arc to be complicated. Which is fine, as there is enough complicated going on with other major characters, and simple can be powerful! I think Finn's arc was to stop running and to face his fears.. (the first order!)
Finn I think was inspired by Rose's clarity - she was very focused and dedicated in what she was fighting.
Also, Rose's early hero worship was like holding up a mirror to Finn - she reflected back to him the opposite of how he saw himself.. and it really challenged him, and inspired him.
When she let the Farthier go - was a very special moment IMHO. Short, sweet but powerful. Rose was fighting for freedom.
At that point, I think it was something Finn was on board with

The showdown with Phasma was ummm curious. I need to see it again, right now I'm thinking it was a little anticlimatic.
But, I'm really glad Finn got his moment of victory with Phasma - he certainly rose to the occasion and confronted his fear of running. No, he stayed and fought Phasma. Hoorah!
I loved the visual of Phasma's eye through the broken helmet, and I'd rather this than have less Rey/Kylo time haaaaa..

So anyway without me going on and on (any further ) .. I'll just address the bolded part of your comment to finish.
So interesting! And.. I agree with this, and slightly disagree with this.
The initial mission to infiltrate the supremacy and disable the tracker failed. But after that - the mission changed.. for Finn, Rose, all the resistance: the Mission was to survive. This was a big theme in the final half of the movie- once we found out what was Holdo's plan... and it's what Holdo gave her life for. For the resistance to survive.
So, by the end of TLJ Finn (along with the resistance) had achieved their mission
Just my 2 cents.

DeeBee wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:Thoughts about Finn in TLJ?  

I know their mission failed-- but as Rachael at Star Wars Nonsense has pointed out, so did everyone's.  I loved the growth of Finn's character-- from trying to escape (picking up where TFA left off) to helping out to being willing to sacrifice himself for the cause-- starting out because of Rey, obviously, but then his willingness to take on a suicide mission even when Rey's safety was no longer an issue.  I loved his fight with Phasma, the determination in his face as he walks out there to meet his fate.  And I really enjoyed his relationship with Rose.  I really appreciated him no longer being a scared child who just wanted to flee.

@Lily Snape

Great idea to start a character thread Lily Snape

At the moment, I don't find Finn's arc to be complicated. Which is fine, as there is enough complicated going on with other major characters, and simple can be powerful! I think Finn's arc was to stop running and to face his fears.. (the first order!)
Finn I think was inspired by Rose's clarity - she was very focused and dedicated in what she was fighting.
Also, Rose's early hero worship was like holding up a mirror to Finn - she reflected back to him the opposite of how he saw himself.. and it really challenged him, and inspired him.  
When she let the Farthier go - was a very special moment IMHO. Short, sweet but powerful. Rose was fighting for freedom.
At that point, I think it was something Finn was on board with

The showdown with Phasma was ummm curious. I need to see it again, right now I'm thinking it was a little anticlimatic.
But, I'm really glad Finn got his moment of victory with Phasma - he certainly rose to the occasion and confronted his fear of running. No, he stayed and fought Phasma. Hoorah!
I loved the visual of Phasma's eye through the broken helmet, and I'd rather this than have less Rey/Kylo time haaaaa..

So anyway without me going on and on (any further ) .. I'll just address the bolded part of your comment to finish.
So interesting! And.. I agree with this, and slightly disagree with this.
The initial mission to infiltrate the supremacy and disable the tracker failed. But after that - the mission changed.. for Finn, Rose, all the resistance: the Mission was to survive. This was a big theme in the final half of the movie- once we found out what was Holdo's plan... and it's what Holdo gave her life for. For the resistance to survive.
So, by the end of TLJ Finn (along with the resistance) had achieved their mission
Just my 2 cents.

@DeeBee

Good point-- they just needed to live to fight another day.  Obviously Rose saw that on a more individual level than Finn did, at least when he was on his suicide mission.  I guess there were so few of them left by then that it took on a different degree of urgency to keep individual fighters alive than it did when Poe was risking all those bombardiers, including her sister.  It feels like a skeleton crew now, but at least there seem to be Resistance fighters out there (like Admiral Holdo.)

Watching TLJ again helped me appreciate Finn's arc more, though I still think that he kind of got overshadowed in his own narrative. I like Rose, but I think she soaked up a little too much of Finn's story. And I still think their whole story in general would be better served by having them spend more time undercover on the Supremacy, putting Finn back in his old digs but with an entirely new mindset. I think it would have been interesting to see how he felt being an outsider looking in on what used to be his whole world. Especially since I'm still convinced that his endgame will be inspiring a Stormtrooper revolt.

Canto Bight wasn't nearly as compelling as that would have been for me, though I get the message they wanted to get a cross with that whole plotline: that the lines in war are never as divided as one thinks. Though I still wonder if it was necessary to introduce a whole town and a whole character (i.e. DJ) just to illustrate that one concept. 

But really, John Boyega was SO compelling in that scene where Finn was about to sacrifice himself. I think they do him a disservice having him shoulder such a large part of the trilogy's comic relief. I hope they let him play more dramatic and serious in IX.

I was seriously crying during Finn's suicide mission because I didn't want him to die, and in my head I was already chanting 'I will be so mad' over and over again if Finn dies.

I was originally a FinnRey shipper, so their friendship is something I really love about the ST. They're just 2 kids caught up in all the drama. And I didn't want Finn to never meet Rey again, although I'm pretty sure she's all he thought about as he flew into the canon. Rose was likely a side-thought up until she kissed him. Plus I still want to see Finn's reaction to Rey's new boyfriend.

I feel like TLJ didn't allow Finn much of the spotlight for himself because he had to work with Rose. But I think that was crucial because he's being constantly put into situations where he needs to work with new people. First with Poe, then Rey, then Han. Now he's got Rose and then DJ. Finn is such a fish out of water after escaping the FO that he doesn't know how to work with these people who did not grow up in the same barracks as him, and it is fun to see him develop.

Finn is like that intern who needs to shadow multiple bosses before he understands how to become one.

With Phasma's death, I am all the more convinced with a Stormtrooper rebellion for Ep 9.

In TFA, Finn learns to care for someone else other than himself. In TLJ he learns to care for more than just Rey and himself, and to sacrifice for a greater cause. In TLJ, he'll learn how to become a leader himself.

Finn's arc was clearer to me second time around, but I still find it pretty weak. Poe at least is given a real flaw to overcome, Finn, not really. "Nice genuine caring guy who expands his circle of care" is just not as compelling as, say, a turnaround for a character who starts out as self-centred. Had Finn been genuinely cowardly, or genuinely seduced by the glamour of Canto Bight, or if he briefly considered DJ's worldview as valid, his arc would have had way more oomph. Besides, Rose railroading his sacrifice kinda undercuts the whole point: so wait, in the end it -is- more important to care about an individual person than a greater good?

Trying to turn Finn's desire to protect Rey into some kind of flaw doesn't really work IMO, because frankly most regular people caught in a war are going to prioritise their loved ones over the big picture.

Something about Finn's ultimate goal being presented as becoming a true Resistance hero feels lame to me. Since Poe already occupies that narrative space.

I feel like they keep setting up interesting places they could have gone with Finn's arc and then not going there. It's sort of frustrating. I also agree that Rose's "sacrifice" confuses things if Finn's attitude at the start is supposed to be a flaw. So is the message that Finn was wrong to only care about acting to protect Rey, or is that exactly how he's supposed to think and Rose was the one who was wrong and learned otherwise? Because everything he did to further the Resistance's cause was ultimately trying to protect Rey from coming back to a mangled, dangerous mess. So he's fighting to save someone he loves, just like Rose preached should be their aim.

I don't think Finn thinking only of Rey was meant to be a flaw.

Everything in Finn's arc in TLJ was only a matter of circumstance and not black and white beliefs.

He wasn't wrong for wanting to find Rey and get away. But bad timing, Rose caught him. Later on he realizes that saving Rey doesn't mean abandoning the cause altogether. Nobody teaches him this. He learn it for himself.

I didn't see Rose saving Finn in the end was because she was selfish and wanted him for herself. There was a bit of logic in there, that even if Finn continued on, he would've died before he even reached the throat of the canon. His sacrifice would be useless. Rose realizes this. Rose may not be the most rounded character, but she has the strongest convictions.

Poe is not the Resistance "hero" in this story because once again, there is no substantial growth for his character to seem all that dramatic or heroic. The only change he goes through is a change in rank. Promoted then demoted and probably will be promoted again Ep 9. He also learns that he needs to listen to his seniors.

Poe is ho-hum.

Now I know I'm the biggest Poe hater here, but compared to Finn, the Stormtrooper who got away, joins the Resistance, and possibly saves more stormtroopers, Poe's story is bland salad.

Finn's character displacement is huge. compared to Poe. He goes from one side to another and saves lives. Now that's a heroic story to tell kids. That even if you were raised by an evil organization, you won't necessarily grow up evil yourself.

@Rei of Sunshine Trouble is, there's absolutely *nothing* about Finn's characterisation that's consistent with him being raised by an evil organisation. You could remove his stormtrooper background entirely and instead say that he had a fairly normal childhood/upbringing and no one would have noticed. His past doesn't inform his character at all compared to the way Rey and Kylo's backgrounds inform theirs. The only way it figures in the story is Finn's hostile encounters with Hux and Phasma, and him knowing the operational details of the FO.

Thing is, yes you can have a character who's raised by an evil regime but doesn't grow up evil, but then you need to show why and what other influences shaped his life. Like, in many dystopian novels I've read the protagonist has some kind of parent/teacher figure who is different to everyone else and their relationship proves to be a big subversive influence. But we're led to believe that until Finn met Poe and Rey, he was just a cog in the machine.

I've said this before, but IMO the reason Finn's background is brushed aside is because SW is ultimately too black-and-white and good guys vs bad guys to really deal with this sort of complexity. You'd then have to acknowledge the fact that our good guys are mowing down former stolen children who really had no say in what they became.