Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

by Kylo Rey Fri 24 Aug 2018, 7:32 pm

rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey

I'm thinking maybe 1 year time jump?? I can't imagine Hux sitting around doing nothing for 3 years or something. And I wouldn't like to lose out on the Reylo development (like their first force bond moment since TLJ). Also, if the aim is Bendemption, I would say it's a good way to not get too much blood on Ben's hands. I personally don't care about random extras getting blown up, but it could complicate things for Reylo. JJ went to great lengths to keep Kylo's away from the destruction of Hosnian Prime in TFA. If he's Supreme Leader for too long, idk how that's gonna work. If that makes sense.

We'll see.

@rawpowah

I think it's anywhere from 6 months to a year. From the photos I don't find it believable that it would even be 2 years. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. It's funny because a lot of ppl are assuming that the Resistance will be fully rebuilt again by IX and it'll be Empire vs Rebels played out again. It would be the easy way out but also a waste of what TLJ sets up at the end. It also sets up a FO civil war nicely and perhaps Benperor too. This is why the length of the time jump is important. If it's relatively short, it already hobbles the 'Kylo will be completely evil and fully solidified in the dark side' speculation.

by californiagirl Fri 24 Aug 2018, 7:51 pm

I've also been of the mind the time gap shouldn't be more than one year. Since John's hair doesn't look as radically changed as he did in photos from earlier this year, I'm getting more hopeful on that front. Seriously, the reason people want a 5 year time jump is so Kylo can be in ultra-dictator of the galaxy mode, and so it would make more sense for Leia to die before or during the beginning of the movie. Which we now know isn't going to happen.

Various posters have mentioned Rey's detachment from the main Resistance plot, and Kylo's separation from the SKB plot. That's honestly how I knew something major was down, and that the ST wasn't just going to be an OT rehash. And for this reason I found discussion of TFA limited, unimpressive, and rather shallow. Then TLJ marketing started and in those early days they were amping up the Luke & Rey show, and acting like Kylo barely existed. So I wandered around the internet wondering if anyone else noticed and found here. Smile

Which is all to say that yes, Rey's whole thing here is that as much as she stands for truth and goodness like the Resistance on a broad level, she is almost arbitrarily with them at this point and there is a big missing piece here. The piece in question is over 6 feet tall, well-built, and has great hair!

And yeah, Hux, as goofy as he is, is also totally underrated. Like no one notices he's been Kylo's foil for the whole trilogy. And totally wants to axe Kylo and take the power for himself. I've always thought it would be good to see Supreme Leader Hux to contrast with Kylo's reign. I'm thinking the former would be far more brutal and merciless.

by snufkin Fri 24 Aug 2018, 8:17 pm

Kylo Rey wrote:
rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey

I'm thinking maybe 1 year time jump?? I can't imagine Hux sitting around doing nothing for 3 years or something. And I wouldn't like to lose out on the Reylo development (like their first force bond moment since TLJ). Also, if the aim is Bendemption, I would say it's a good way to not get too much blood on Ben's hands. I personally don't care about random extras getting blown up, but it could complicate things for Reylo. JJ went to great lengths to keep Kylo's away from the destruction of Hosnian Prime in TFA. If he's Supreme Leader for too long, idk how that's gonna work. If that makes sense.

We'll see.
@rawpowah

I think it's anywhere from 6 months to a year. From the photos I don't find it believable that it would even be 2 years. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. It's funny because a lot of ppl are assuming that the Resistance will be fully rebuilt again by IX and it'll be Empire vs Rebels played out again. It would be the easy way out but also a waste of what TLJ sets up at the end. It also sets up a FO civil war nicely and perhaps Benperor too. This is why the length of the time jump is important. If it's relatively short, it already hobbles the 'Kylo will be completely evil and fully solidified in the dark side' speculation.

@Kylo Rey

The biggest question for me has been how long can he keep Hux's at arm's length. Because he used the Force Choke to intimidate him but we know from that murderous last shot, Hux isn't going to be a team player in IX. He's got his own ambitions and DH has said both films were meant to show Hux wanting to kill Kylo when he was vulnerable but it didn't work out for him. Likely there will be a dramatic moment in IX where this happens again, this time more to Kylo's peril.

Otherwise, if the ST is Jane Eyre in Space (and there's plenty of evidence that this is indeed a Bildungsroman/coming-of-age story), this is the part of the story where Jane breaks up with Rochester because of insurmountable obstacles and takes off on the Moors to eventually end up with the Rivers family and standing on her own two feet by having her own home/employment and the inheritance from her uncle. Rough estimates (one example) always place the time lapse between her leaving Thornfield Hall and returning to Rochester to be about 12 months or so.

by rey09 Fri 24 Aug 2018, 8:24 pm

sorry if posted before- new star joining cast (lost and LOTR fans...)

https://deadline.com/2018/08/star-wars-episode-ix-dominic-monaghan-jj-abrams-1202451972/

by californiagirl Fri 24 Aug 2018, 8:49 pm

Regarding the king & queen of the galaxy idea, I find it rather unlikely. It would really go against the grain of everything SW has stood for since time began. It would also be very weird and jarring in the context of Kylo's character arc. Since the beginning of TFA, he's been insecure about not being as strong as Vader, Snoke mocks him for being weak, his declaration to rule the galaxy is portrayed as misguided enough to make Rey leave, he has the grand Crait meltdown.... On top of the Emperor, Vader, and all others who want to rule everything, the very clear message is that this is an inherently bad idea with terrible ramifications for both the person seeking or wielding the power as well as everyone else. Any other option would be completely out of the blue.

To reward Kylo with rulership of some kind, when it has been depicted only as evil and self-destructive, on top of the fact he honestly doesn't seem as interested in it, or suited to it, as he thinks he is, would be one of the strangest things in all of SW.

by loversinthestorm Fri 24 Aug 2018, 8:58 pm

californiagirl wrote:Regarding the king & queen of the galaxy idea, I find it rather unlikely. It would really go against the grain of everything SW has stood for since time began. It would also be very weird and jarring in the context of Kylo's character arc. Since the beginning of TFA, he's been insecure about not being as strong as Vader, Snoke mocks him for being weak, his declaration to rule the galaxy is portrayed as misguided enough to make Rey leave, he has the grand Crait meltdown.... On top of the Emperor, Vader, and all others who want to rule everything, the very clear message is that this is an inherently bad idea with terrible ramifications for both the person seeking or wielding the power as well as everyone else. Any other option would be completely out of the blue.

To reward Kylo with rulership of some kind, when it has been depicted only as evil and self-destructive, on top of the fact he honestly doesn't seem as interested in it, or suited to it, as he thinks he is, would be one of the strangest things in all of SW.

@californiagirl

I agree that this would be a bad idea, but reading how much the new republic is failing in bloodlines, then thinking about the fact their names meanings are king and queen, maybe that's where they are heading? It would be really strange really but on the other hand, the ST is not expanding is these political implications.

by Kylo Rey Fri 24 Aug 2018, 9:13 pm

californiagirl wrote:Regarding the king & queen of the galaxy idea, I find it rather unlikely. It would really go against the grain of everything SW has stood for since time began. It would also be very weird and jarring in the context of Kylo's character arc. Since the beginning of TFA, he's been insecure about not being as strong as Vader, Snoke mocks him for being weak, his declaration to rule the galaxy is portrayed as misguided enough to make Rey leave, he has the grand Crait meltdown.... On top of the Emperor, Vader, and all others who want to rule everything, the very clear message is that this is an inherently bad idea with terrible ramifications for both the person seeking or wielding the power as well as everyone else. Any other option would be completely out of the blue.

To reward Kylo with rulership of some kind, when it has been depicted only as evil and self-destructive, on top of the fact he honestly doesn't seem as interested in it, or suited to it, as he thinks he is, would be one of the strangest things in all of SW.

@californiagirl

'Heavy is the head that wears the crown'

by SheLitAFire Fri 24 Aug 2018, 9:25 pm

tukicarreno wrote:
rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey They are grasping at straws lol. Rey is the protagonist, and I fully expect her to have a separate journey. She's not going to be, I would hope, the fifth wheel in the Resistance plot. She has her Force journey and bond to work on.

Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll see the Force and Resistance plot start out separate from the beginning, and then come together in Act 3 for the big climax. This really makes me wonder how Kylo's own arc will be structured, and how long he'll be with the FO.
@rawpowah

What's strange to me is that if that leaked plot is true, where is Rey? If this is the first act of the movie you would think she is with the Resistance at that point. Maybe she is waiting for them in The Falcon?

@tukicarreno

"Word is" in the leaks, take this with a grain of salt of course, that Daisy has been filming inside Pinewood so far (and possibly with Adam).

by californiagirl Fri 24 Aug 2018, 10:22 pm

loversinthestorm wrote:
californiagirl wrote:Regarding the king & queen of the galaxy idea, I find it rather unlikely. It would really go against the grain of everything SW has stood for since time began. It would also be very weird and jarring in the context of Kylo's character arc. Since the beginning of TFA, he's been insecure about not being as strong as Vader, Snoke mocks him for being weak, his declaration to rule the galaxy is portrayed as misguided enough to make Rey leave, he has the grand Crait meltdown.... On top of the Emperor, Vader, and all others who want to rule everything, the very clear message is that this is an inherently bad idea with terrible ramifications for both the person seeking or wielding the power as well as everyone else. Any other option would be completely out of the blue.

To reward Kylo with rulership of some kind, when it has been depicted only as evil and self-destructive, on top of the fact he honestly doesn't seem as interested in it, or suited to it, as he thinks he is, would be one of the strangest things in all of SW.
@californiagirl

I agree that this would be a bad idea, but reading how much the new republic is failing in bloodlines, then thinking about the fact their names meanings are king and queen, maybe that's where they are heading? It would be really strange really but on the other hand, the ST is not expanding is these political implications.

@loversinthestorm

Agreed they need to try something different. Letting systems rule themselves has come up a number of times here, instead of doing giant republics that can be taken over by giant empires.

by RosiePancake Fri 24 Aug 2018, 10:44 pm

tukicarreno wrote:
rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey They are grasping at straws lol. Rey is the protagonist, and I fully expect her to have a separate journey. She's not going to be, I would hope, the fifth wheel in the Resistance plot. She has her Force journey and bond to work on.

Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll see the Force and Resistance plot start out separate from the beginning, and then come together in Act 3 for the big climax. This really makes me wonder how Kylo's own arc will be structured, and how long he'll be with the FO.
@rawpowah

What's strange to me is that if that leaked plot is true, where is Rey? If this is the first act of the movie you would think she is with the Resistance at that point. Maybe she is waiting for them in The Falcon?

@tukicarreno

rawpowah wrote:
tukicarreno wrote:
rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey They are grasping at straws lol. Rey is the protagonist, and I fully expect her to have a separate journey. She's not going to be, I would hope, the fifth wheel in the Resistance plot. She has her Force journey and bond to work on.

Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll see the Force and Resistance plot start out separate from the beginning, and then come together in Act 3 for the big climax. This really makes me wonder how Kylo's own arc will be structured, and how long he'll be with the FO.
@rawpowah

What's strange to me is that if that leaked plot is true, where is Rey? If this is the first act of the movie you would think she is with the Resistance at that point. Maybe she is waiting for them in The Falcon?
@tukicarreno

Waiting on the Falcon is what I imagine Rose would do. Not Rey, who is good at combat, the protagonist and "the last Jedi" (aka huge draw for recruitment).

Unless Rey makes up some excuse why she doesn't want to go help with her powers, so she can stay behind and make out with her boyfriend in the space equivalent of his dad's truck

@rawpowah

"Kylo reconciles with his girlfriend and plows her in his dad's space junk truck in the middle of chaos" sounds like a possible leak to me. scratch

by Chris24601 Fri 24 Aug 2018, 11:12 pm

californiagirl wrote:Agreed they need to try something different. Letting systems rule themselves has come up a number of times here, instead of doing giant republics that can be taken over by giant empires.

@californiagirl
I think independent systems would be best too, but you can’t just remove the architecture of a galactic system of government and trade overnight either. The reason the First Order was able to take over in the first place was by exploiting the power vacuum created by the destruction of the Hosnian System. There is an entire bureaucratic and military apparatus that has to be spun down and turned over to legitimate planetary authorities or you’re going to looking at decades, even centuries of warlords taking control of various chunks of the galaxy and vying for power with the ordinary folks caught in the crossfire. Think a failed state like Afghanistan or Syria only on a galactic scale.

Then throw into that mix that the primary organized opposition aren’t sainted idealistic revolutionaries like Washington, Jefferson or Adams, or even the loveable rogue Franklin. If the leaks are true the new opposition is the mafia, the Somoli pirates, the Columbian drug cartels and doomsday prepper militia types teaming up with the disgruntled remnants the A-Team (Leia’s Resistance) because they all hate the current people in charge. That is just so messed up it actually turns into something kind of awesome, but mainly for the sheer train wreck it’s certain to become the moment their common enemy is out of the picture.

In the decision between authoritarian dictatorship, corrupt plutocracy and anarchic thugocracy... well, a monarchy under a decent and fair king and or queen starts to look like a great option if all you’re looking to do is raise your family in peace. Particularly if said fair king works to devolve as much power back to the planetary level as possible during their reign.

by Night Huntress Sat 25 Aug 2018, 12:48 am

californiagirl wrote:Regarding the king & queen of the galaxy idea, I find it rather unlikely. It would really go against the grain of everything SW has stood for since time began. It would also be very weird and jarring in the context of Kylo's character arc. Since the beginning of TFA, he's been insecure about not being as strong as Vader, Snoke mocks him for being weak, his declaration to rule the galaxy is portrayed as misguided enough to make Rey leave, he has the grand Crait meltdown.... On top of the Emperor, Vader, and all others who want to rule everything, the very clear message is that this is an inherently bad idea with terrible ramifications for both the person seeking or wielding the power as well as everyone else. Any other option would be completely out of the blue.

To reward Kylo with rulership of some kind, when it has been depicted only as evil and self-destructive, on top of the fact he honestly doesn't seem as interested in it, or suited to it, as he thinks he is, would be one of the strangest things in all of SW.

@californiagirl

I agree- as much as I like to read some great fan fics about this kind of scenario it's very unlikely they go in this direction in actual canon.

What I can imagine is some kind of reverse "Palpatine becoming Emperor" speech from RotS where "Supreme Leader Ren" or rather Ben Solo is voluntary giving his power back to the people / senate. I know it's wishful thinking, but I would LOVE that so much!

Regarding the time jump: I always was in the "shorter time jump camp" for the reasons already mentioned here - and we still don't know if that's really the case- although these leaked Fotos gave me hope we won't have several years like most of the fans theorized, but indeed only month to max. 1 year.

by Riri Sat 25 Aug 2018, 1:27 am

Excited about Dominic although I suspect it will be a cameo type role. He could play a darksider especially after his performance in the Love The Way You Lie music video

by rawpowah Sat 25 Aug 2018, 6:23 am

Chris24601 wrote:
californiagirl wrote:Agreed they need to try something different. Letting systems rule themselves has come up a number of times here, instead of doing giant republics that can be taken over by giant empires.
@californiagirl
I think independent systems would be best too, but you can’t just remove the architecture of a galactic system of government and trade overnight either. The reason the First Order was able to take over in the first place was by exploiting the power vacuum created by the destruction of the Hosnian System. There is an entire bureaucratic and military apparatus that has to be spun down and turned over to legitimate planetary authorities or you’re going to looking at decades, even centuries of warlords taking control of various chunks of the galaxy and vying for power with the ordinary folks caught in the crossfire. Think a failed state like Afghanistan or Syria only on a galactic scale.

Then throw into that mix that the primary organized opposition aren’t sainted idealistic revolutionaries like Washington, Jefferson or Adams, or even the loveable rogue Franklin. If the leaks are true the new opposition is the mafia, the Somoli pirates, the Columbian drug cartels and doomsday prepper militia types teaming up with the disgruntled remnants the A-Team (Leia’s Resistance) because they all hate the current people in charge. That is just so messed up it actually turns into something kind of awesome, but mainly for the sheer train wreck it’s certain to become the moment their common enemy is out of the picture.

In the decision between authoritarian dictatorship, corrupt plutocracy and anarchic thugocracy... well, a monarchy under a decent and fair king and or queen starts to look like a great option if all you’re looking to do is raise your family in peace. Particularly if said fair king works to devolve as much power back to the planetary level as possible during their reign.

@Chris24601

I agree. Also, having Kylo maintain some position of power means you avoid the scenario where he has to answer for his crimes in front of a tribunal (which, if the leaks are true, will be made up of crime syndicates aka "murderers, traitors and thieves" Laughing

). Can you imagine Jabba's son presiding in court at the end? Being a big deal in the New-New Republic Senate? And have that be the triumphant ending? I honestly can't picture that Laughing

. If Kylo's king of the castle, so to speak, and he helps root out all the Hux type figures in the FO, he doesn't have to answer to anyone. His allegiance would, as Rey said in TLJ, "shift the tide" and, to quote her again: "this could be how we win". And, as the heroine of the tale, Rey has to be right. Just like Luke was right about Vader in the OT.

But, who knows, maybe the "murderers, traitors, and thieves" will be of the Disney-Jack Sparrow variety, instead of the grey we're hoping for. Laughing

I wouldn't put that past JJ either.

by Chris24601 Sat 25 Aug 2018, 7:49 am

@rawpowah
Well, if they want to move Star Wars future into something where endless conflict is the norm so they can make more movies, I suppose putting the murderers, traitors and thieves in charge once the First Order is broken is one way to do it; that’d be a depressing end for the Skywalker trilogy of trilogies though.

The fact that they touched on the Resistance (and Rebellion before it) not being as pure as it was made to look in the OT (via Rogue One and Canto Bight) and now recruiting pirates and gangsters really does highlight Rey’s lack of belonging to the Resistance. The only thing more on the nose would be if Ungar Plutt himself showed up as the Resistance cell leader for Jakku.

Rey embodies the common man (she’s Remy from “Ratatouille”... Anyone can be a Jedi) who was being exploited by the pirates and gangsters and slavers (she was literally sold off to Ungar for drinking money for God’s sake) long before the First Order ever turned up. If they wanted to go there I could totally see this gathering of basically all the people who exploited people like her as her cue to go on a solo mission (or a Solo mission) and just not come back. Maybe Kylo has been trying to reform the First Order, but keeps getting undermined by the rest of the command structure.

I almost wonder if the resolution of the Reylo A-plot won’t be them realizing neither faction can ever fix things and so they just run off together and focus on helping individuals as they build a reformed Jedi order instead of trying to save the whole galaxy all at once.

by fuhry Sat 25 Aug 2018, 8:28 am

I'm in favor of a longer time jump, like 4 - 5 years. Not because Kylo can be a huge baddie, but because he will have had 5 years to fall into a tortured existence he wants desperately to get out of.

Also so that the movie can open with Leia having died of more or less natural causes, and that we can see that she and Poe have rebuilt the resistance and Rey has a bunch of Jedi trainees. It sets the stage for history to repeat itself, and the movie can be about Kylo and Rey coming together to destroy the old patterns.

As for Kylo's crimes, I mean, he's been a soldier in a war, recruited because of his force abilities. Same as Rey, really. He killed his dad, yeah, but his dad was on the other side, and he had orders to do it! I feel like Obi-wan and Yoda wanted Luke to go ahead and kill Darth Vader. They didn't tell him Vader was his dad because they were worried that sentiment would creep in.

If the First Order is the big bad enemy, and the resistance are the good guys that must win militarily, then it's tough to redeem Kylo unless he sacrifices himself. But if the war itself is the enemy, and Kylo is a weapon, then he's a victim. And I think he is a victim. And if the Resistance has rebuilt itself and Rey and her fledgling Jedi Order are its weapons, then maybe she's being made into a victim too.

by Lily Snape Sat 25 Aug 2018, 11:14 am

Chris24601 wrote:
Lily Snape wrote:Personally, I predict Bendemption, Romantic Reylo, and some sort of breakup of the First Order. But I get it how this all seems less obvious than “Luke will turn Vader and they’ll defeat the Empire.”
@Lily Snape
As one of those barely old enough to remember the OT as it was coming out I feel the need to point out that, at the time between ESB and RotJ “Luke will turn Vader and they’ll defeat the Empire” was ANYTHING but obvious.

Heck, there was serious nerd debate over whether Vader was even the telling the truth about being Luke’s father or not (the lack of internet kept it from being in the same level as “Kylo was lying about Rey’s parents,” but the drama was there and even found its way into letters to the editor for the Marvel Star Wars comics at the time). The idea that he might be redeemed wasn’t even really on the radar either. The idea that Obi-Wan would have lied to Luke about his father and that Yoda would be wrong about the Dark Side being inescapable were alien to the viewers... why would his mentors do that to Luke? Vader was probably lying because he was irredeemably evil was what a lot of people thought.

Frankly, the idea of the Emperor as THE Big Bad hadn’t even caught on yet. Vader was the main villain in everyone’s minds and a lot of fans believed the Star Wars novelization that the Emperor was a dupe of the corrupt establishment, not the true mastermind of it all. There was no hint of a new Death Star with the Emperor aboard to create a centralized target... just a vast empire with no clear sense of how it might be defeated (worth noting is that the Rebel fleet at the end of ESB was just the medical frigate and the transports that escaped Hoth... the Resistance fleet at the start of TLJ looked far more impressive). Instead the general sense was that Luke had to defeat (not redeem) Vader to win the day.

People also didn’t have the sense that ESB was the strongest film of the trilogy. Many fans were, for want of a better term, butthurt that ESB didn’t turn out the way they expected it to based on the first film and criticized it for being such a departure from the first film.

If this sounds familiar it’s because while history doesn’t repeat itself... it does rhyme. People forget how radical a departure ESB was at the time because we’ve had 40 years to get used to the idea that Vader was telling the truth (and Obi-Wan’s certain point of view speech), that the Emperor was the true Big Bad, that a second Death Star was being built and the Rebel fleet was actually big enough to make a play at destroying it with the Emperor aboard to cut off the head of the snake.

40 years from now the way that IX will flow out of TLJ in a logical way will be obvious and self-evident to everyone; the debate will be over how the middle chapter of whatever trilogy they’re up to with one of Reylo’s grandkids as the protagonist has no clear path forward after what just happened.

* * * * *

As to the actual spoiler images; I would have been more shocked if Rey HAD been with Poe, Finn and Chewie to be honest. She’s literally “The Last Jedi” and Luke’s “Last Apprentice” (from a certain point of view) and, if Leia is still in charge, then I’d think her priority would be in Rey learning as much as possible from the Jedi texts so she can train new Jedi since the Supreme Leader and the Knights of Ren are all powerful darksiders.

My hunch is that when we catch up to Rey, she’ll actually be quite frustrated at having been kept out of the action by Leia for so long, even if she intellectually understands the importance. The chance to do something is probably going to be her inciting incident in the film. It also means I don’t expect many early leaks about her or her story since that’s the sort of thing that would be filmed exclusively at Pinewood and not on location.

@Chris24601

I wasn’t reading the comics or fan zines because I was a kid, so I’m just talking about my own experience. My best friend and I totally didn’t believe Vader in the theater— we grabbed each others’ arms and whispered, “No, Luke! Don’t believe him! That’s the Dark side talking!” But that was when I was almost 9. By three years later, when I was 12, we had accepted the Luke-Vader connection and realized that if Vader was Luke’s father, he couldn’t just kill him. He had to try to bring him back. Even if Vader was still the Big Bad, he had to try. And also, we didn’t think Star Wars would end with the Empire victorious, so we were figuring on a happy ending for the Rebellion and that Luke, although he might be tempted , would not go full Dark. Smile

by SW_Heroine_Journey Sat 25 Aug 2018, 12:06 pm

In the end, the genre is Sci-Fi Fantasy (emphasis more on Fantasy); therefore, I don't think it's going to get too bogged down with politics...political solutions to solve the issues of the PT and OT. Indeed, official items such as comics and books have brought it back to reality with many plot points, yet the ultimate are the movies, and what the GA is familiar with.

My personal opinion - the resolution will be very fairy tale/fantasy/mystical/feast for the eyes in nature... Regardless if this is truly the end of the Skywalker/Solo saga or not (or in Disney/LF's mind it is - but they later change their mind), they will emphasize the 'Happily Ever After.'

by snufkin Sat 25 Aug 2018, 1:16 pm

fuhry wrote:He killed his dad, yeah, but his dad was on the other side, and he had orders to do it! I feel like Obi-wan and Yoda wanted Luke to go ahead and kill Darth Vader. They didn't tell him Vader was his dad because they were worried that sentiment would creep in.

F**king A, that's a point which never gets hit on in any of the discussions beyond "he killed cool dad Han Solo, he should die!" Ben's character is a dark reflection of Luke, a what if X had happened instead?. And Luke was first lied to/manipulated and then outright ordered to murder his father. Which if Luke had done it and either learned the truth or done it knowing the truth, he'd been split apart too. It's the whole meta aspect of the ST where they repeat Vader's original scene with the Emperor in Snoke giving him the orders to kill Han. Both sides are bluffing the other, especially about sentiment and attachment to the person they're ordered to take out. And Han's death/sacrifice both emphasizes that point as well as setting up how Snoke did it as a test specifically because of what happened with Vader. And when the true test comes with Rey (which makes it even more sadistic/tragic that Snoke orders Han's death as a dry run), Ben doesn't hesitate and does what he knows he needs to do. I'm of the opinion that if Rey hadn't mind tricked Daniel Craig and run away, Ben would've taken her to Snoke and Snoke would've got the map intel and then had Ben kill her while Han escaped. One or the other of them was going to die in that situation and Han's death is ultimately for the greater good in breaking Snoke's control over Ben, reinforcing the bond between him and Ben, and setting up Rey as the one who can ultimately reach Ben where his family couldn't.

@Lily Snape It's a trip as an adult reading about the larger reaction to that plot point because you miss out on those discussions (sometimes to your advantage) as a kid. Hilariously there's a story from the San Francisco Chronicle in 1978 when Dave Prowse did an appearance at a comic book store in Berkeley after finding out ESB's plotline and blurted out "Father can't kill son, son can't kill father...so they live again to star in Star Wars IV." Which sure sounds like the set up for IX.

by Riri Sun 26 Aug 2018, 12:17 am

In this article with Keri Russel posted on the 24th August, it says:

“I hopped on the phone this week with Russell, who was just coming from the airport after arriving back from London where she is shooting Star Wars: Episode IX. ”

So Keri was filming in the this month! Hooray!

https://deadline.com/2018/08/emmys-keri-russell-americans-star-wars-episode-ix-1202452053/s

by Dar-ren19 Sun 26 Aug 2018, 4:26 am

rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey They are grasping at straws lol. Rey is the protagonist, and I fully expect her to have a separate journey. She's not going to be, I would hope, the fifth wheel in the Resistance plot. She has her Force journey and bond to work on.

Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll see the Force and Resistance plot start out separate from the beginning, and then come together in Act 3 for the big climax. This really makes me wonder how Kylo's own arc will be structured, and how long he'll be with the FO.

@rawpowah agreed on all points. It makes much more sense than the whole Boyega scenario of "Rey and Finn are back together again." Hmm. I wonder what happened there. Wink

by giaciak2 Sun 26 Aug 2018, 9:51 am

Hallo to all, I find a new spoiler for ep. IX. My english is not very good but I find it in english too. I add here the link. I’m writing by my phone I hope I can share this : https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1007125/Star-Wars-9-Kylo-Ren-Anakin-Darth-Vader-force-ghost-release-date-theories-fan-backlash

by Riri Sun 26 Aug 2018, 10:08 am

Just to let you know, Express have a new “leak” every other day. I’m not sure what their track record is though.

by **Darth Rowan** Sun 26 Aug 2018, 10:54 am

giaciak2 wrote:Hallo to all, I find a new spoiler for ep. IX. My english is not very good but I find it in english too. I add here the link. I’m writing by my phone I hope I can share this : https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1007125/Star-Wars-9-Kylo-Ren-Anakin-Darth-Vader-force-ghost-release-date-theories-fan-backlash

@giaciak2

Thanks for posting this. I don’t look at them as spoilers tbh, more like speculation. That said I would love it if this scenario played out and we got to see the Force Ghost intervention for Ben. I think it would be a very therapeutic experience for him as well as for some of the audience, and I can definitely see JJ angling for something like this to bring the nostalgia full on and also to tie in the OT and PT in a more obvious way.

by SW_Heroine_Journey Sun 26 Aug 2018, 11:04 am

Darth Rowan wrote:
giaciak2 wrote:Hallo to all, I find a new spoiler for ep. IX. My english is not very good but I find it in english too. I add here the link. I’m writing by my phone I hope I can share this : https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1007125/Star-Wars-9-Kylo-Ren-Anakin-Darth-Vader-force-ghost-release-date-theories-fan-backlash
@giaciak2

Thanks for posting this. I don’t look at them as spoilers tbh, more like speculation. That said I would love it if this scenario played out and we got to see the Force Ghost intervention for Ben. I think it would be a very therapeutic experience for him as well as for some of the audience, and I can definitely see JJ angling for something like this to bring the nostalgia full on and also to tie in the OT and PT in a more obvious way.

@Darth Rowan

Trying not to have 'scenes I must see!' because I want to allow J.J.'s storytelling to proceed without any initial barriers on first viewing, yet I admit it - regardless if it is a hallucination (maybe a fever dream from injuries), or a mass force ghost visit, or a mixture; I shall love it! Very Happy

I definitely do believe that J.J. will want to present scenes in IX that will cause repeat viewing of Episodes I-IX to tie together in a pretty storytelling bow.

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