Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

whisperingwillow wrote:I’m not sure what to say about the leaks. At all.

According to these leaks Rey has no feelings towards Kylo except Anger and Hate.

@whisperingwillow

whisperingwillow wrote:I’m not sure what to say about the leaks. At all.

According to these leaks Rey has no feelings towards Kylo except Anger and Hate.

@whisperingwillow

Even if those are true, that would just make sense in the beginning of the film.
Still I highly doubt any of these are true, don’t despair!

ZioRen wrote:If those leaks are true, here are my thoughts:

1. This may as well be Act 1 Kylo and Rey with how little their development, and the development of their connection, seems to matter.

2. Rey is acting rather self-righteous about "not falling to the dark like bad old Kylo" considering how vicious she gets in this movie. Stabbing a guy though the chest when he's reeling from his own mother dying, as you sense his mother dying too and know she loves her son and probably would be very upset with this, is quite a thing. You don't get to heal someone after that sort of very dark side action and then scold him about how much better you are. I get that it's supposed to evoke Han's death and show how she's different because she doesn't let him die, but still. That went WAY too far for her to make that kind of declaration.

3. Kylo looks pathetic the whole time and his "redemption" is lame. Hux gets more heroic moments for whatever reason.

4. There's no room for Reylo here.

5. If Rey heals Kylo from death in Act 2, that lessens the chance that she does the same in the climax. The drama of it has now been wasted because it already happened earlier in the movie.

Summed up: I hate this.

@ZioRen

How do we know they are true though?

Yup it all sounds like a massive back peddle on reylo and simply a continuation of their TFA dynamic with the added force bond that doesn't generate any intimate moments that were present in TLJ. These leaks sound very detailed but I can't really bring myself to believe them. They fully go against what we know of Kylo and Rey's dynamic so far.
Luckily the trailer isn't too far away so we'll know in a few weeks if no other leaker comes along in the meantime. Until then I'm not going to stress over this because it seems extremely fishy to me.

wow

Is no one else suspicious that he's been endlessly leaking detailed spoilers for almost a month now, and no one is making a move to stop him?

I saw the advent calendar going around yesterday. While the constant use of the mask in marketing/merchandising vs. actual footage is slightly annoying, there's no Palpatine, and this is the prettiest piece they've made so far. I heard the edges are cut off, Finn, Jannah, C-3PO etc. are there as well.

Anyway, here's some new funkos, the first good look at some new characters' outfits and hairstyles.

californiagirl wrote:Is no one else suspicious that he's been endlessly leaking detailed spoilers for almost a month now, and no one is making a move to stop him?

I saw the advent calendar going around yesterday. While the constant use of the mask in marketing/merchandising vs. actual footage is slightly annoying, there's no Palpatine, and this is the prettiest piece they've made so far. I heard the edges are cut off, Finn, Jannah, C-3PO etc. are there as well.

Anyway, here's some new funkos, the first good look at some new characters' outfits and hairstyles.

@californiagirl

Exactly!  (About the details and not stopping him)

No need to stop dudebro fanfic!!!!

ROSE AND FINN FUNKOS!!!!! OMG! Love them! (I am crying though for the lack of Dark Rey Funko. pout)

Excellent point/reminder about the dudebro fanfic (to some, 'leaks')

"anyway lucasfilm sniped a dude for just saying he saw the cast filming in the desert so if people really think that they’d let JP’s three part novel trilogy stay up if it was legit....."

https://twitter.com/reysbensolos/status/1175454691381190657

This was my comment on Reddit

Either there is way too much emotional context missing or some of this information is not accurate because the antagonism between Rey and Kylo is definitely not what the cast have been saying about them. Words like “desperate" "connected" "emotional" "mining that relationship more" "relationship is progressing" has been used to describe their relationship. KMT also said redemption is a big theme that is explored and Daisy said “is an apology ever enough?” “Do actions speak louder than words?”

Based on these leaks, they’re basically just fighting the whole time? It just doesn’t sit well with me.

@Riri Yep. Where is the growth of the relationship (even if not romantic) there isn’t even friendship or understanding in these leaks just antagonistic behaviors. There is nothing deeply complicated about this relationship in these leaks. Nothing.

Also, how does it match anything the actors have said. Rey stabs someone who is in that moment feeling Deep pain of his mother’s death and then  she taunts him that she is better then him. Using her healing power is about control and power in that exact moment not compassion.

Edit:

I have so many feelings about these leaks but I guess it comes down to this. According to the leaks Rey and Kylo have no growth in their relationship, Rey stabs Kylo in the chest while his mother is dying then heals him to show she is better than him (you aren't if you stab someone while they are in that position) and tells him that (side note: Is this MSW's leak about Rey doing something to take Kylo out then bringing him back?? Because ugh if it is), Kylo dies quickly in this fight with Palps apparently and then force ghosts Luke and Leia come back to defeat Palpatine in which Ben plays no role because he is dead, and to top it all off Rey takes the legacy lightsaber and Leia's to Tatooine (because?????) and then proclaims herself a Skywalker.

What a delightful ending to the Skywalker saga. What an ending. Three generations of a family where the third generation doesn't matter because the man Palpetine's, who caused that entire family to suffer, granddaughter is there to fill the void and take over the Skywalker family.

Oh, and Kylo finishing what his grandfather started? Nope that doesn't happen either because oh right he is dead.

Yes, this leak suggests that this is the resurrection MSW heard. Which means if Kylo dies in the climax it probably isn't Rey who brings him back.

I guess the only good thing is if he's healed from a death wound in Act 2, maybe they wont be repetitive and have him mortally wounded later. Or he'll die that time for good to differentiate it, in which case why have Rey nearly kill him and bring him back from the brink anyways.

The only reason this doesn't sound like an anti made it up is that Kylo is "redeemed." As for the "desperate" and "connected," sounds like it's pretty one-sided on Kylo's end.

Yeah I hate Kylo just being straight up annoying and then dying - sounds like TLJ leaks all over again.

Do you think it’s possible these leaks are from Colin Treverrow’s script ? Rey is absolutely shocking in this . From reading act two she’s behaving big time like Palpatine would even though she thinks her self righteous. I can’t believe they would do this to Rey. After that fight with Ben she’s definitely on the dark side . No one on the light would behave as arrogant and heartless as that .It doesn’t make sense . Sorry I don’t believe it and the leaker does put a disclaimer in also to cover his tracks .

It's literally the anti dream Rey. She viciously stabs Kylo the way they always wanted. Sure, she lets him live, which antis don't want, but only after declaring how much better she is and leaving him in a sad heap on the floor while she steals his stuff. This is astounding to me and if it's real, I don't think there's any context that doesn't make this a loss for Reylo shippers.

A lot of this really does sound like JJ is backtracking much of what Rian did and paving over it. This is antis the movie down to Rey "becoming" a Skywalker.

If the leaks are real, at least. And I'll be honest, I don't think all these leaks are fake. Some, sure, but this seems like how TFA was leaked early and much of those leaks were right. I'm sure some emotional context is missing and despite my complaining I'm not actually doom and glooming. I just am amazed by these leaks and how awful they sound.

Stabbing in the heart.. is the way Jaina solo  kills Darth Caedus AKA Jacen Solo.. There is no way that LF repeats the story beats of the EU.. Fanboy fantasy dreams

ZioRen wrote:It's literally the anti dream Rey. She viciously stabs Kylo the way they always wanted. Sure, she lets him live, which antis don't want, but only after declaring how much better she is and leaving him in a sad heap on the floor while she steals his stuff. This is astounding to me and if it's real, I don't think there's any context that doesn't make this a loss for Reylo shippers.

A lot of this really does sound like JJ is backtracking much of what Rian did and paving over it. This is antis the movie down to Rey "becoming" a Skywalker.

If the leaks are real, at least. And I'll be honest, I don't think all these leaks are fake. Some, sure, but this seems like how TFA was leaked early and much of those leaks were right. I'm sure some emotional context is missing and despite my complaining I'm not actually doom and glooming. I just am amazed by these leaks and how awful they sound.

@ZioRen

JediPaxis is an anti. I’ve seen him commenting around before on reddit threads and he doesn’t like Kylo, doesn’t believe in Reylo etc. Rey stabbing Kylo, and the stuff she says - that is straight up character assassination. LFL is very protective of Rey’s image (role model for girls etc etc). so I would be shocked at this.

Kylo Rey wrote:

ZioRen wrote:It's literally the anti dream Rey. She viciously stabs Kylo the way they always wanted. Sure, she lets him live, which antis don't want, but only after declaring how much better she is and leaving him in a sad heap on the floor while she steals his stuff. This is astounding to me and if it's real, I don't think there's any context that doesn't make this a loss for Reylo shippers.

A lot of this really does sound like JJ is backtracking much of what Rian did and paving over it. This is antis the movie down to Rey "becoming" a Skywalker.

If the leaks are real, at least. And I'll be honest, I don't think all these leaks are fake.  Some, sure, but this seems like how TFA was leaked early and much of those leaks were right.  I'm sure some emotional context is missing and despite my complaining I'm not actually doom and glooming. I just am amazed by these leaks and how awful they sound.

@ZioRen

JediPaxis is an anti. I’ve seen him commenting around before on reddit threads and he doesn’t like Kylo, doesn’t believe in Reylo etc. Rey stabbing Kylo, and the stuff she says - that is straight up character assassination. LFL is very protective of Rey’s image (role model for girls etc etc). so I would be shocked at this.

@Kylo Rey
I agree, it's practically stabbing someone on the back. If she does that, she already is on the Dark Side (and then she even says "she will never be like him and fall to the Dark Side", the hypocrisy is so huge it's funny ).

This reminds me a lot of the first fanboy who leaked the plotpoints of TLJ after he watched one of the earlier screenings. Based on the way he put it, you would have never guessed how ridiculously Reylo the movie was or how sympathetic and sad Kylo was by the end. It's funny how much they skew things. If I recall, he was acting like Kylo was full stop dark side by the end and irredeemable.

Once again, I trust the words of KK and JJ more than this dude. If they say it's hopeful and delightful, and they like to emphasize how Rey's compassion is her strength, yeah, this doesn't exactly vibe with official sources. Daisy herself gave the "connected" line, which doesn't come up at all here. These really do sound like pre-TLJ leaks where everybody hates and fights each other constantly, and the multiple drafts Colin wrote throw in a real twist regarding what the actual story is. I don't think Adam would be so hyped about this role if this is what happens. I also don't believe the whole cast would be nearly as upbeat, they all love Kylo and Adam. Kelly especially.

Yes, I expect Kylo to either nearly die or actually die and come back (death and rebirth themes and all that), but this isn't at all coherent and doesn't really convey the "what have we learned across nine movies, what can we bring into the future" message that JJ keeps hammering home in every interview. These are mostly JJ's characters after all, Rey and Kylo are his favorite children. I know people don't trust him at times, but SW is his world far more than Trek ever was (he didn't have writing credit on those movies either), and characters are one of his stronger suits. He seems to care far less about staying in a predtermined box of SW ideas this time out. Let alone some EU-sounding thing, and I know he largely doesn't care about Legends. That was one of the purposes of the ST, so they wouldn't have to adhere to those stories anymore.

This leaker's biases are only becoming more and more obvious, he's clearly enjoying his time in the spotlight during this content drought. Well, at least we get merch, a trailer, interviews, and floods of stuff in just a couple of weeks.

Nobody is removing these leaks because it will certainly validate it. Though I'm not sure that their source gave them full picture, and it's not only about Reylo.

As for Rey stabbing Kylo, it's something I can see especially if she is going to the island after this. Reminds me earlier drafts of ROTS where Padme is going to kill Anakin. It reads to me that Rey is very frustrated and she hates Kylo for wanting her on the Dark Side and that they can't be together. It makes their positions even and open doors for romantic future without "Kylo was violent to our pure girl!!!". As for Reylo in first two acts, I never believed that there will be explicit romantic relationships there. Leaks lack nuance and emotional beats. The only thing I will hate if they make love aspect from Kylo obvious and completely tone it down from Rey in the beginning. But I also don't take "desperate", "connected" and "complicated" as a sign of romantic Reylo. The moment Driver said that "it's never one thing" about it being friendship or love I knew that there won't be typical "getting together" romance scenario and it won't be explicitly romantic love. This is what "complicated". And now it looks like it will be Rey may love Ben, but hates Kylo, Kylo loves Rey but where is Ben? Too little time for focus on love between Rey and Ben if he returns in end of second act and both need to destroy Palpatine.

Remember how MANY of these antis cannot even remember Kylo sitting there in the Crait bunker with tears in his eyes holding his father's dice looking up at Rey. They remember him wanting to destroy the MF though (and by extension Rey).

It's all an anti wet dream. I doubt ANY of it is true. Maybe a few things. This guy may know a few things and has built a whole fanfic around those facts. It's why he keeps doing it and LF is letting him, knowing he'll be a laughing stock come December 20th.

Hey all I read through all of the leaker’s comments in the post and someone asked him how do you know it’s not Colin Treverrow’s script being leaked and his reply is he doesn’t know and until we get more footage you have to have an element of trust. So take the leaks with a pinch of salt .

I'm sure even if the trailer shows almost nothing of the info he has now he'll try to spin it to fit his narrative. However, I think the general tone of the trailer and what it tries to show of Rey and Kylo's dynamic is most important here. If there are clear indications that their scenes together are positive on some level then his spoilers will be automatically suspect to me since his info is going out of the way to make the two seem like nothing but enemies.

special_cases wrote:Nobody is removing these leaks because it will certainly validate it. Though I'm not sure that their source gave them full picture, and it's not only about Reylo.

As for Rey stabbing Kylo, it's something I can see especially if she is going to the island after this. Reminds me earlier drafts of ROTS where Padme is going to kill Anakin. It reads to me that Rey is very frustrated and she hates Kylo for wanting her on the Dark Side and that they can't be together. It makes their positions even and open doors for romantic  future without "Kylo was violent to our pure girl!!!". As for Reylo in first two acts, I never believed that there will be explicit romantic relationships there. Leaks lack nuance and emotional beats. The only thing I will hate if they make love aspect from Kylo obvious and completely tone it down from Rey in the beginning. But I also don't take "desperate", "connected" and "complicated" as a sign of romantic Reylo. The moment Driver said that "it's never one thing" about it being friendship or love I knew that there won't be typical "getting together" romance scenario and it won't be explicitly romantic love. This is what "complicated". And now it looks like it will be Rey may love Ben, but hates Kylo, Kylo loves Rey but where is Ben? Too little time for focus on love between Rey and Ben if he returns in end of second act and both need to destroy Palpatine.

@special_cases

Eh, I don’t think that rules out explicit romantic love. Because either way, it’s true. Their relationship isn’t any one thing. It’s very complicated, not only does it have the sexual tension component to it, it has the force aspect to it, they are enemies on opposing sides. I don’t think you can box it down to any one thing. Adam likes to be diplomatic with his answers as well. He’s got it down to a fine art.

And agreed, @californiagirl, the cast are clearly pretty fond of Kylo, they wouldn’t be singling him out and hyping him up like this, if this is what his arc truly is. JJ called Adam mindblowing in this movie. Dominic Monaghan said he had the hardest job of all the cast members. Not to mention there was a recent interview with Adam where he called TROS the icing on the cake for him this year. He sounds pretty happy. Those leaks are the complete antithesis of why Adam Driver signed up for SW in the first place.

Honestly, JJ saying that about Adam says absolutely nothing to me about the quality of the writing in TROS. Because even if Kylo's plot is exactly as lame as Praxis makes it seem on paper, the acting would make or break it and we know Adam can pull it off and then some.

Adam sounding happy, though, bodes well. He's already said that he likes "sentimental and obvious" when it comes to Kylo's character and direction.

ZioRen wrote:Honestly, JJ saying that about Adam says absolutely nothing to me about the quality of the writing in TROS. Because even if Kylo's plot is exactly as lame as Praxis makes it seem on paper, the acting would make or break it and we know Adam can pull it off and then some.

Adam sounding happy, though, bodes well. He's already said that he likes "sentimental and obvious" when it comes to Kylo's character and direction.

@ZioRen

That’s true, I guess. Although when you put the pieces together, like Dominic’s comment, and Daisy’s whole “Is an apology ever enough? Will action speak louder than words? Where will we end up? is a good question and a question posed by the film.” it implies more than just one dimensional villainy and antagonism until a last minute heel turn.