Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

@Kylo Rey IIRC he's also banned posting/citing links by Sleemo - who's way more of a trusted source, including openly being championed by Lucasfilm social media team members. That alone is pretty telling in terms of both bias and grasp of being a verified/trusted voice. Well, that and posting "plot points" that contradict anything you'd find in a basic Google News/Twitter search of cast/filmmaker interviews.

Honestly, I get that people are bored/anxious right know and it's another 3-6 weeks potentially before the trailer drops. But we know that Bothan Spy got disappeared for posting a spoiler (the spoiler) to Reddit. Yet this other person is somehow is "an insider" (funny he's not the fan who got flown to San Francisco to tour the headquarters and get interviewed) but the Disney snipers haven't appeared to take him out? I'm all for reading crack spoilers and making fun of them, but any actual plot points in these posts he keeps dropping would make for at least 3 seasons of an incredibly bad series on D+

I always liked the idea of Kylo having a vision of Han, but if it does happen I hope it’s not a case of, Kylo makes a complete 180-degree turnaround with no build-up after one conversation that just sorta happens arbitrarily. This is where JJ’s involvement makes me nervous, because he does have a tendency of sometimes being lazy and impatient and racing to a big emotional moment without doing the groundwork, just because it’s convenient for the story. I’m sure that Adam would act the sith out of this scene regardless, but it’s like, the greatest actor in the universe couldn’t make Anakin’s turn in RotS feel not rushed.

I’d say that JJ is very, very good with actors, but not always with *characters*. Finn in TFA is a complete inconsistent mess of a character lifted by a charming performance. Rey in TFA is a thinly written character lifted by a charismatic performance. Poe is a total nothing of a character lifted by an actor’s personal charisma.

The leaks don't sound that crazy, just really boring. I still think making Rey a Palpatine and retconing the nobody parents thing who left her behind is just unnecessarily making the narrative muddy and inconsistent. Also Rey stabbing Kylo through the chest and while she's doing it bragging about how she'll never fall to the dark side like him is some hilarious irony I hope would be intentional. Idk about romantic reylo, they sound way too antagonistic for that tho I do think they'll make it clear Kylo is in love with her and his motivation for obeying Palpatine is wanting a way to be with her. I think making it ambiguous is really lame and weak when they have a chemistry filled enemies to lovers, reverse Anidala story that really could bring the saga full circle and make it count for something. If the leaks are true, they'll probably go the Rey takes the name Skywalker and we're supposed to think this random girl that never actually had to deal with being a Skywalker, all the good and the bad for generations of family tragedy, looking at the two sun's setting with a bunch of other non Skywalker characters somehow counts as a satisfying ending.

@Kylo Rey I get what you are saying, but for me the thing is that when you have romance between enemies in this genre it goes to one thing - love against all odds. You can say it's never just friendship or love for couples like Rey and Finn, Hermione and Ron, Willow and Tara... Rey and Kylo is not that couple because they are enemies who never developed any romantic relationship before TROS. They attracted to each other so if enemies are deeply in love in the movie I would say it's definitely "one thing" that will be a focus. That's just my opinion.

I agree that Adam's words about Kylo matters the most. Because all these descriptions from JJ and KK isn't a guarantee for me that Ben won't die in heroic way. It's all marketing buzz and TBH "hopeful" does sound as not purely happy ending. But we can spin it in all directions. I just remember that Adam said that he hope that fans will be happy with Kylo's developmen in end of TLJ and... now I get his facial expression in that interview. Before TLJ it sounded as total proof of Bendemption in the end of TLJ.

Also, it's not just wildly out of character for Rey, but also for JJ. Isn't he the one who goes on and on about how much he loves romance and mushy happy endings? Making his female characters bloodthirsty and vindictive, then calling it empowerment, is just so, so not in his wheelhouse.

Making Reylo ambiguous at the end would be such a massive cop out, bleh. High stakes fantasy fairytale opera and ambiguity just does not mix. It would be such a criminal waste of Adam and Daisy’s chemistry as well. And before someone comes at me with the outrage from the ‘woke’ crowd and The Mary Sue etc. at Reylo happening - remember, outrage is temporary and movies last forever.

@special_cases I mean sure, but Adam himself has said that they’ve been building towards something with his character which has been in his head all this time. Given his disdain for Hollywood movies and how generic they are (from his own mouth), and how he needed to be convinced, how he’s said Kylo is personal to himself - dude is really protective of his character. I’m not sure he would have signed on in the first place if he was just going to have a tacked on rehash of Vader’s ending for an arc that has had the character’s key primary trait be his conflict. He’s known the general sense of Kylo’s ending for a few years now.

At the end of the day, JJ is pretty sentimental in his storytelling. He’s a good fit for SW in that respect.

californiagirl wrote:Also, it's not just wildly out of character for Rey, but also for JJ. Isn't he the one who goes on and on about how much he loves romance and mushy happy endings? Making his female characters bloodthirsty and vindictive, then calling it empowerment, is just so, so not in his wheelhouse.

@californiagirl

To be fair, subverting an innocent-seeming female character and making her something that she didn't seem to be at the outset IS kind of his wheelhouse (see: LOST). However, not really in the way that these leaks are making it sound. Also, what with a film requiring balance at all, the really strong counterpoint to all of this (that of course is nowhere to be found in the leaks) is that if the point is to make Rey "worse" than she initially seemed, the obvious inverse of that that practically has to happen is that they need to make Kylo/Ben "better" than he initially seemed and then have them meet in the middle, you know? Otherwise it's an odd story, a kind weirdly pointless and less powerful Return of the Jedi retread. I have a bit of a hard time accepting that, all other factors considered.

Assuming that the leak is true, then I was so naive when I thought Daenerys went mad because of the bell and Jon suddenly stabbed Dany in the chest were the worst twists of the film history, lmao.  According to JP, it sounds like JJ will assassinate Rey's character harder than how DD assassinated Daenerys' character in GOT 8. And JJ will make Jon Snow looks like a saint because at least Jon Snow didn't stab Daenerys in the back just to prove that he was better than her, hahaha. Besides, personally I think JP is starting to sound like Renisthekey, an infamous fleaker of TLJ who fleaked the plot of TLJ, then he made multi-threads to expand his fleak and gained a lot of attention plus followers. The real question is why a leaker who receives leaks through a game of phones from a friend of a friend of a friend could have a ton of important plot points while the one who saw TLJ himself couldn't remember that much details.

I do agree that making Reylo ambiguous would be a massive cop out, basically biggest missed opportunity in SW. But even talented writers make mistakes and JJ is not even talented as writer. Until I hear Romance word and Love word from official marketing... all possibilities are fair.

They also damage Rey's character more with excluding Romance Reylo. But I had a feeling for a long time that we, fans, have much more interesting view and interpration on Rey then most current writers in ST. They want Luke for girls and we want to see a fresh character.

OrionStars wrote:Assuming that the leak is true, then I was so naive when I thought Daenerys went mad because of the bell and Jon suddenly stabbed Dany in the chest were the worst twists of the film history, lmao.  According to JP, it sounds like JJ will assassinate Rey's character harder than how DD assassinated Daenerys' character in GOT 8. And JJ will make Jon Snow looks like a saint because at least Jon Snow didn't stab Daenerys in the back just to prove that he was better than her, hahaha. Besides, personally I think JP is starting to sound like Renisthekey, an infamous fleaker of TLJ who fleaked the plot of TLJ, then he made multi-threads to expand his fleak and gained a lot of attention plus followers. The real question is why a leaker who receives leaks through a game of phones from a friend of a friend of a friend could have a ton of important plot points while the one who saw TLJ himself couldn't remember that much details.

@OrionStars

He's also starting to sound like FOOSLS (that arrogant, fake clown) only with mod privileges.

I don't really think they want Luke for girls. I kind of think that's what Ahsoka was. On an aesthetic/visual level, but as characters, they always struck me as very different. Rey has some childlike, innocent qualities, but Luke vastly more so (and he was whinier and more annoying, by design). And Rey's journey may have featured learning her abilities, but it's never been the main focus, which certain online people just can't get past.

Pablo has spoken about Palpatine, and if Palpatine had children

IDK all this doom/gloom feels better suited to threads about Crack Spoilers and Fandom Fatigue, as none of this counts as actual spoilers. Which off the top of my head would be things like:

- What's Richard E. Grant's role in the story beyond being Imperial/First Order affiliated and what part of the story has to do with the meeting he said he had with Daisy and JJ?
- What's Lando's entry point to the story? Does he have a moment/shout out with L3 on the Falcon (I think so given he's wearing a similar costume)? Who does he talk to about taking out the 2nd Death Star and how does that tie into the story?
- When do the Golden Dice appear in the story and in what context? Does Ben get to hold the actual ones (his childhood plaything for real) and when does that happen in the story?
- When do his gloves come off for good as they're as big a part of his persona/hiding himself as the mask is?
- What does the story do, if anything, with the parallels Solo had for "too much of his father's heart in him?" with Ben ending up in the same position as Qi'ra? Will they do anything further with the thread about different groups allying against the syndicates and the Empire's alliance?
- When does the poop hit the fan in terms of the Resistance realizing Rey was off holding hands with the Supreme Leader instead of being BFFs with Luke Skywalker and vice versa, does Hux have incriminating security camera footage to name and shame his work rival for killing their boss after getting caught sexting with a girl from their rival organization?
- Do Hux and Rey ever finally meet so we can see him sneer "thuuuh guuuuurlll" to her face?
- What's really happened to Rey's parents? Were they addicts whose spiral included pawning her off for booze and getting themselves killed? Or were there extenuating circumstances so selling her to Unkar Plutt was the best option they had?
- Which points in Rey's dialogue with Ben will the terms 'junk' and 'garbage' be used?
- What specific scenes/dialogue is Daisy referring to with her “Is an apology ever enough? Will actions speak louder than words? Where will we end up?” comment?
- Finally who's gonna get wrecked by Dark Rey? She's already given the beatdown to Finn, Kylo, Luke, and the Praetorian Guard, so who's the recipient of the can of whoop a** she'll definitely be opening up?

snufkin wrote:IDK all this doom/gloom feels better suited to threads about Crack Spoilers and Fandom Fatigue, as none of this counts as actual spoilers. Which off the top of my head would be things like:

- What's Richard E. Grant's role in the story beyond being Imperial/First Order affiliated and what part of the story has to do with the meeting he said he had with Daisy and JJ?
- What's Lando's entry point to the story? Does he have a moment/shout out with L3 on the Falcon (I think so given he's wearing a similar costume)? Who does he talk to about taking out the 2nd Death Star and how does that tie into the story?
- When do the Golden Dice appear in the story and in what context? Does Ben get to hold the actual ones (his childhood plaything for real) and when does that happen in the story?
- When do his gloves come off for good as they're as big a part of his persona/hiding himself as the mask is?
- What does the story do, if anything, with the parallels Solo had for "too much of his father's heart in him?" with Ben ending up in the same position as Qi'ra? Will they do anything further with the thread about different groups allying against the syndicates and the Empire's alliance?
- When does the poop hit the fan in terms of the Resistance realizing Rey was off holding hands with the Supreme Leader instead of being BFFs with Luke Skywalker and vice versa, does Hux have incriminating security camera footage to name and shame his work rival for killing their boss after getting caught sexting with a girl from their rival organization?
- Do Hux and Rey ever finally meet so we can see him sneer "thuuuh guuuuurlll" to her face?
- What's really happened to Rey's parents? Were they addicts whose spiral included pawning her off for booze and getting themselves killed? Or were there extenuating circumstances so selling her to Unkar Plutt was the best option they had?
- Which points in Rey's dialogue with Ben will the terms 'junk' and 'garbage' be used?
- What specific scenes/dialogue is Daisy referring to with her “Is an apology ever enough? Will actions speak louder than words? Where will we end up?” comment?
- Finally who's gonna get wrecked by Dark Rey? She's already given the beatdown to Finn, Kylo, Luke, and the Praetorian Guard, so who's the recipient of the can of whoop a** she'll definitely be opening up?

@snufkin

Agree.  Especially because the doom and gloom is related to dudebro fanfic.  

The Reylo SW podcast Who Talks First is having fun with him on reddit lol  He's now claiming that VF is in error and not him.  Come on...lol

nickandnora wrote:

OrionStars wrote:Assuming that the leak is true, then I was so naive when I thought Daenerys went mad because of the bell and Jon suddenly stabbed Dany in the chest were the worst twists of the film history, lmao.  According to JP, it sounds like JJ will assassinate Rey's character harder than how DD assassinated Daenerys' character in GOT 8. And JJ will make Jon Snow looks like a saint because at least Jon Snow didn't stab Daenerys in the back just to prove that he was better than her, hahaha. Besides, personally I think JP is starting to sound like Renisthekey, an infamous fleaker of TLJ who fleaked the plot of TLJ, then he made multi-threads to expand his fleak and gained a lot of attention plus followers. The real question is why a leaker who receives leaks through a game of phones from a friend of a friend of a friend could have a ton of important plot points while the one who saw TLJ himself couldn't remember that much details.

@OrionStars

He's also starting to sound like FOOSLS (that arrogant, fake clown) only with mod privileges.

@nickandnora

Now JP is saying force flash fights won't happen. Even Renisthekey and FOOSLS can't archive this unlimited powah. I think we're witnessing a rising of (f)leaker, he must be a (f)leaker lord or something.

Force Flash fight is all but confirmed on the official art book cover. Maybe JP should go back to the drawing board on his 'sources' instead of doubling down on literally all of his info.

How many times any discussion that isn't labeling any leaker as liar will be send somewhere else and will be proclaimed as "doom&gloom". The legit person from the industry, who leaked tons of movies, said that he heard similar things. Maybe it's not all legit stuff but we don't have way to prove that it's all bullsh*t. Vague quotes from crew and details like horses being on another planet hardly prove anything.

I brought here TLJ leaks from a person who watched it early. I was sent to Fandom Fatigue thread because "there is no way Kylo kills Snoke and stays on the Dark Side". Guess what? There is a way. There is no meaningful discussion in echo chamber. Does some things sound completely stupid in these leaks? Yeah, totally. Do I see JJ doing it? Yeah, totally. I even see JJ doing Rey Solo. People can have different opinions about where filmmaker will go. It's different from thinking what good storytelling choice will be.

special_cases wrote:How many times any discussion that isn't labeling any leaker as liar will be send somewhere else and will be proclaimed as "doom&gloom". The legit person from the industry, who leaked tons of movies, said that he heard similar things. Maybe it's not all legit stuff but we don't have way to prove that it's all bullsh*t. Vague quotes from crew and details like horses being on another planet hardly prove anything.

I brought here TLJ leaks from a person who watched it early. I was sent to Fandom Fatigue thread because "there is no way Kylo kills Snoke and stays on the Dark Side". Guess what? There is a way. There is no meaningful discussion in echo chamber. Does some things sound completely stupid in these leaks? Yeah, totally. Do I see JJ doing it? Yeah, totally. I even see JJ doing Rey Solo. People can have different opinions about where filmmaker will go. It's different from thinking what good storytelling choice will be.

@special_cases

Which legit person from the industry? Not being sarcastic— I’ve just lost track at this point, and I’d like to go back and see what someone who is supposed to be legit is saying.

I have to say that it’s suspicious that Jedi Paxis hasn’t been shut down by the Mouse if he’s actually on target and announcing that he’s going to leak two more acts of the film. I guess I also find it suspicious because major members of the actual cast don’t seem to know what happens in scenes they didn’t film, but this guy has lots of detail.

ViewerAnon

They can't shut down a whole subreddit dedicated to leaks. They will confirm then all these leaks. It's too close to the premiere. The same happened to Endgame, GOT, Justice of League: all leaks were on Reddit and nobody was shut down. The only thing that against JP and MSW is that I don't see LF sending more fake leaks that will make it look like chaos. So great possibility that some major details are misinterpreted so they're calm about it.

Maybe to people who don't follow leaks in other fandom this is surprising but everything can be leaked. I would say that TLJ was an exception.

special_cases wrote:ViewerAnon

They can't shut down a whole subreddit dedicated to leaks. They will confirm then all these leaks. It's too close to the premiere. The same happened to Endgame, GOT, Justice of League: all leaks were on Reddit and nobody was shut down. The only thing that against JP and MSW is that I don't see LF sending more fake leaks that will make it look like chaos. So great possibility that some major details are misinterpreted so they're calm about it.

Maybe to people who don't follow leaks in other fandom this is surprising but everything can be leaked. I would say that TLJ was an exception.

@special_cases


Which ViewerAnon you're talking about because the last time I saw ViewerAnon, he was commenting in Bird of Prey's thread, not JP's thread. Besides, the true leak of Endgame was posted on April 23, one day after the premiere in Los Angeles, by hawkeyelovergirl. The same happened with TLJ when The Pawn of RPF forum saw it on Dec 9 (the day TLJ was premiered in L.A). So basically, as far as I know, the actual leak of other movies only got out after people attended the premiere. A few days ago, Disney even forgot to promote TROS and Disney's official account on twitter only mentioned TROS when a lot of Reylos on twitter started to freak out and asked Disney about the marketing of TROS, so to say the least, even Disney don't think 3 months before the premiere is too close to the premiere like you think.

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Pablo has spoken about Palpatine, and if Palpatine had children

@SW_Heroine_Journey

So what was the answer? So Pabs did not mean that answer to debunk reddit leaks

@Orion Stars ViewerAnon replied to my comment in first thread of JP's leaks. He then tweeted about it because people started asking him what he knows already.

No, part of Endgame leaked earlier. The leak you're talking about just was immediately verified unlike previous fragmental leaks.

GOT leaked a year before the release just nobody believed it. You know, like first TLJ leak in January 2016, with ideas from first draft of RJ's script, just nobody believed it.

About Disney doesn't think it's too close to premiere - okay... Do tell please how shutting down SWL and JP right now hmmm will change situation. Like what the reaction will be if they do it.

special_cases wrote:@Orion Stars ViewerAnon replied to my comment in first thread of JP's leaks. He then tweeted about it because people started asking him what he knows already.

No, part of Endgame leaked earlier. The leak you're talking about just was immediately verified unlike previous fragmental leaks.

GOT leaked a year before the release just nobody believed it. You know, like first TLJ leak in January 2016, with ideas from first draft of RJ's script, just nobody believed it.

About Disney doesn't think it's too close to premiere - okay... Do tell please how shutting down SWL and JP right now hmmm will change situation. Like what the reaction will be if they do it.

@special_cases



Oh, you meant his answer on twitter, VA gave away a really so-so answer, he said some parts matched up with what he heard, but a lot of parts (?!) he wasn't aware of. And he ain't going to tell people which parts are false. Plus he even told people to come back to JP and JW because he won't give away anything.
About Endgame, I remember 1 month before the release, fake leaks still ruled the entire MCUleak sub on reddit, people even believed that Captain Marvel would time travel in Endgame. hawkeyelovergirl was the only one leaker who gave away the full ending of Endgame. The full season of GOT 8 wasn't leaked like season 7 at all because HBO threatened to sue Frikidoctor after he leaked S8E1 so the final ending of was only leaked 10 days before May 19. I haven't seen Rian's first draft, but Paxis already hedged that some part of his leaks might be cut and wouldn't make it to the final version of the movie so I'm not sure which draft of TROS I should look for.

So your comment about ViewerAnon is the same comment I made in first place? He confirmed that he heard the same things but not all of them. He is legit, that's it. He is not obligated to tell anybody any details, and if he was unsure he would have stayed silent.

There was a leak before that full threatment about Endgame. I have no idea what it has to do with people believing something else or other fake leaks. That leak wasn't verified so people don't believe it. Go on Reddit and you will find it.

The ending of GoT leaked a year before the release. Full season - no, but ending leaked.

We know what was in RJ's draft because RJ told us. The leak from January included it.

If I understand correctly, you're trying to say that big movie projects never have earlier leaks about major plotpoints of movies?

Finally read all the Jedipaxis leaks.Wow, his is so bad, a dudebro and antis dream come true. I hope as well it´s either complet bulls**t, or Trevorrow´s script that leaked here and thererfore it could be shared so freely without any lawyers on the doorstep.

And Hux is suddenly the hero by rescuing resitance members??? WHUT??? That´s now my favorite part, closely followed by the funeral for the lightsaber parts at the end. Soooo moving.

Think positive: if this mess is really the story, I will save a lot of money.