Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Lily Snape wrote:
There were three years between ESB and ROTJ, and as a little kid, it’s not like I could just go repeatedly to the movies to see it.  No money, no car.   And VCRs (or, heck, Betamaxes) were still newish then— in short, we didn’t have any way to rewatch it, my friends and I.  I just had the impression I left the theater with, which was that Luke was being lied to by Darth Vader to manipulate him.

In those three years, I grew up a bit and searched my feelings and knew it to be true.   But a lot of kids in my class still thought it was a lie.

@Lily Snape
That was my experience too. The conversations at school were about whether Vader was lying or not. (I actually can't remember what I thought though.   )

That moment doesn't involve Rey based on precedent, his facial expression softens/breaks when he's around her no matter what. If I had to guess, it'd be something like opening the Ark of the Covenant when he thinks it'll cement his power but instead all Hell breaks loose.

As far as "No, I am your father" in the theater, I accepted it right away and it was a non-issue for me and the handful of other kids (all girls) I discussed Star Wars with. We were way more concerned about what was going to happen to Han and if Leia would be able to save him from Jabba. Funny thing speaking of that, with the parallels they keep dropping between Han's background/upbringing with Rey's, wonder if it'd turn out her parents were killed because they ran afoul of bad guys like the Five Syndicates or whomever is helping the First Order/Imperial Remnants from the shadows. Junk traders is an awfully specific term to use in conjunction with OT dialogue around junk/garbage. Or how Marion is introduced in Raiders with the bad guys closing in on her because of the "little pieces of junk" her father spent his career and lost his life in pursuit of.

californiagirl wrote:As to the Disneyland attendance, I used to live in the LA area, I'm well aware that the California Disney parks are far more reliant on locals than other Disney parks. The park as a whole started having attendance issues this year, not just GE. They've made it more prohibitively expensive than ever, and blocked most of their annual passholders from most of the summer and other high-attendance times of year. And only one of the two big rides in GE is open. The more impressive ride got delayed a couple of times, which doesn't help matters, and won't open until December/January. The ride they do have right now is the MF, which is not ST-specific. I'm actually glad they made the land after a new planet rather than a known one.

@californiagirl

I live 10 minutes from Disneyland and have kids— 20 years ago, it cost little more than $100 to get the cheapest annual pass, and 10 years ago, an annual SoCal cheapo pass was like $150 or $200, so our whole family had them. It was what we did on a Friday night or a Sunday morning and afternoon. But now the cheapest passes— with a ton of unavailable dates— are $400. We can’t afford that— a lot of people can’t. The prices went up 25% in the last year for annual passes, because that was what the market would bear (they thought), but it has come back to bite them. I mean, it’s $99 for an annual pass to Knott’s Berry Farm just 20 minutes west, and the only blackout date is Christmas, when they aren’t even open. I love Disneyland— we might get my husband and 6-year-old passes just so the little guy can experience it while he’s still this young, like his siblings did— but the rest of us won’t be going.

We’d getting fed this week

12 Parsnips wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:
There were three years between ESB and ROTJ, and as a little kid, it’s not like I could just go repeatedly to the movies to see it.  No money, no car.   And VCRs (or, heck, Betamaxes) were still newish then— in short, we didn’t have any way to rewatch it, my friends and I.  I just had the impression I left the theater with, which was that Luke was being lied to by Darth Vader to manipulate him.

In those three years, I grew up a bit and searched my feelings and knew it to be true.   But a lot of kids in my class still thought it was a lie.

@Lily Snape
That was my experience too. The conversations at school were about whether Vader was lying or not. (I actually can't remember what I thought though.   )

@12 Parsnips

Watching it, I did not believe it but I don't think I thought about it much after that or I don't remember thinking about it until Bleu Gost Obi Wan shows up in ROTJ then I thought wow what a jerk Obi Wan is... But no one contemplated Vader's redemption before ESB either, that for me was totally out of left field..

spacebaby45678 wrote:

12 Parsnips wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:
There were three years between ESB and ROTJ, and as a little kid, it’s not like I could just go repeatedly to the movies to see it.  No money, no car.   And VCRs (or, heck, Betamaxes) were still newish then— in short, we didn’t have any way to rewatch it, my friends and I.  I just had the impression I left the theater with, which was that Luke was being lied to by Darth Vader to manipulate him.

In those three years, I grew up a bit and searched my feelings and knew it to be true.   But a lot of kids in my class still thought it was a lie.

@Lily Snape
That was my experience too. The conversations at school were about whether Vader was lying or not. (I actually can't remember what I thought though.   )

@12 Parsnips

Watching it, I did not believe it but I don't think I thought about it much after that or I don't remember thinking about it until Bleu Gost Obi Wan shows up in ROTJ then I thought wow what a jerk Obi Wan is... But no one contemplated Vader's redemption before ESB either, that for me was totally out of left field..

@spacebaby45678

I went from age 9 to age 12 in those years— kind of crucial for brain development. I remember getting excited about the Han/Leia romance as the movie approached— would he live? would they wind up together?— and having the realization that ROTJ would be a lot more interesting if Darth Vader were telling the truth. I never doubted that Luke would resist the Dark side, though— that was a no-brainer.

Lily Snape wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

12 Parsnips wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:
There were three years between ESB and ROTJ, and as a little kid, it’s not like I could just go repeatedly to the movies to see it.  No money, no car.   And VCRs (or, heck, Betamaxes) were still newish then— in short, we didn’t have any way to rewatch it, my friends and I.  I just had the impression I left the theater with, which was that Luke was being lied to by Darth Vader to manipulate him.

In those three years, I grew up a bit and searched my feelings and knew it to be true.   But a lot of kids in my class still thought it was a lie.

@Lily Snape
That was my experience too. The conversations at school were about whether Vader was lying or not. (I actually can't remember what I thought though.   )

@12 Parsnips

Watching it, I did not believe it but I don't think I thought about it much after that or I don't remember thinking about it until Bleu Gost Obi Wan shows up in ROTJ then I thought wow what a jerk Obi Wan is... But no one contemplated Vader's redemption before ESB either, that for me was totally out of left field..

@spacebaby45678

I went from age 9 to age 12 in those years— kind of crucial for brain development. I remember getting excited about the Han/Leia romance as the movie approached— would he live? would they wind up together?— and having the realization that ROTJ would be a lot more interesting if Darth Vader were telling the truth. I never doubted that Luke would resist the Dark side, though— that was a no-brainer.

@Lily Snape

I only cared about Han & Leia too those were my peak Harlequin years.

Lily Snape wrote:

californiagirl wrote:As to the Disneyland attendance, I used to live in the LA area, I'm well aware that the California Disney parks are far more reliant on locals than other Disney parks. The park as a whole started having attendance issues this year, not just GE. They've made it more prohibitively expensive than ever, and blocked most of their annual passholders from most of the summer and other high-attendance times of year. And only one of the two big rides in GE is open. The more impressive ride got delayed a couple of times, which doesn't help matters, and won't open until December/January. The ride they do have right now is the MF, which is not ST-specific. I'm actually glad they made the land after a new planet rather than a known one.

@californiagirl

I live 10 minutes from Disneyland and have kids— 20 years ago, it cost little more than $100 to get the cheapest annual pass, and 10 years ago, an annual SoCal cheapo pass was like $150 or $200, so our whole family had them.  It was what we did on a Friday night or a Sunday morning and afternoon.  But now the cheapest passes— with a ton of unavailable dates— are $400.  We can’t afford that— a lot of people can’t.  The prices went up 25% in the last year for annual passes, because that was what the market would bear (they thought), but it has come back to bite them.  I mean, it’s $99 for an annual pass to Knott’s Berry Farm just 20 minutes west, and the only blackout date is Christmas, when they aren’t even open.  I love Disneyland— we might get my husband and 6-year-old passes just so the little guy can experience it while he’s still this young, like his siblings did— but the rest of us won’t be going.

@Lily Snape

Yup, when I was a kid, it was like $40-$60 a day, now it's like twice that or more. A lot of the "Galaxy's Edge proves no one likes SW anymore" discourse over the past months sounds a lot like "Solo proves no one likes SW anymore" except with even less evidence. It's using one thing to punish another thing. And it applies to Disneyland as a whole, the tickets aren't just for SW, why not blame anything else about the park? IMO, Disney went a little overboard trying to scare people off. Jenny Nicholson put up the first part of a series of GE videos that explained it well. It's like a marriage of her SW nerdom and theme park nerdom in one.

Teo oswald wrote:Higher quality version (2048 x 857)





i don't think it's Rey....even if kyo takes off the mask in her presence, it's not Rey

@Teo oswald

Looking at the whole picture, it looks like it’s part of the set. To the left of the image, there are those blue lights that start closer to the floor then go up the wall at about a 135 degree angle.

Between the way he’s hunched in to a crouch and so many stormtroopers are falling in the background, I wonder if they are in a ship about to crash (or I suppose sink?). Or it already did and they’re invading it. When you’re on a steep, unstable incline, if you don’t have anything to hold on to, you would have to bend your knees rather than walk straight, I think?

That aside, finally new quotes and still film images to chew over! I hope they’re true to their word that they explore that vulnerability connection more. And there’s that word “complicated” again to describe them. That definitely must be on the talking points list for this film. That and “satisfying conclusion” if past interviews were a clue.

In this video, Jason Ward says that Rey steals the Millennium Falcon from Kylo's star destroyer and that Kylo and the stormtroopers are being pushed back by the Falcon's afterburners as she blasts off.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96BXvoqeXw

Bespinbulletin is on Instagram accusing reylos of sending death threats his way because of the leaks. Him and JP are sounding like antis now and are getting very cocky about their info, even getting to the point of antagonizing us. I can't wait until someone else comes along or the trailer does.

Lovely_Rose wrote:Bespinbulletin is on Instagram accusing reylos of sending death threats his way because of the leaks. Him and JP are sounding like antis now and are getting very cocky about their info, even getting to the point of antagonizing us. I can't wait until someone else comes along or the trailer does.

@Lovely_Rose

Some believe that they are one and the same.  I also know there are a few that suspect JW/JP/Bespin are all the same person.  If separate individuals, the suspicion is that they are feeding each other leaks (they are in a definite echo chamber).  

I.e.  Their motivations are very suspicious.  I truly think they/he want(s) to cause stress for Reylos.  

I know there are those that say the Empire photo aligns with leaks, yet that is a part of Marketing.  So, if the source is within Marketing, and gave them/him the photo/photos, well, the dudebro fanfic was then developed from that.  Whatever truthful elements there are, instead of "just the facts" - dudebro fanfic erupts from it and then is presented as a leak.

The fact that Chris Terrio, who co-wrote the movie w/JJ, mentions Rey and Kylo’s “complicated relationship” and said it’s been present ever since the interrogation when Kylo took off his mask” indicates to me that JJ always intended there to be a complicated relationship between them that tors beyond antagonism.

Terrio’s comment also suggests that if the leaks are true, there’s more context to them than what we’ve got, especially when it comes to the scenes between Kylo and Rey.

Let's say the leaks are true. If they are and we take Chris Terrio's comments into the equation, then it will point to a Tragic Romance ending for Rey and Kylo. No matter what context we may be missing, Ben staying dead guarantees this outcome. It's not something I would be happy with, at all. It would feel like Lucasfilm is too scared to fully commit to reylo, and it would ultimately leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

Kessel wrote:The fact that Chris Terrio, who co-wrote the movie w/JJ, mentions Rey and Kylo’s “complicated relationship” and said it’s been present ever since the interrogation when Kylo took off his mask” indicates to me that JJ always intended there to be a complicated relationship between them that tors beyond antagonism.

Terrio’s comment also suggests that if the leaks are true, there’s more context to them than what we’ve got, especially when it comes to the scenes between Kylo and Rey.

@Kessel

I have noticed though that Terrio's comment is, once again, mostly concentrates on a complicated relationship from Kylo's side rather than Rey's; i.e. he talks about how she affects him rather than vice versa. All we got on Rey, from the official sources at least, is that she doesn't believe that Kylo can be redeemed at the start of the movie, but nothing about how this makes her feel.

Lovely_Rose wrote:Let's say the leaks are true. If they are and we take Chris Terrio's comments into the equation, then it will point to a Tragic Romance ending for Rey and Kylo. No matter what context we may be missing, Ben staying dead guarantees this outcome. It's not something I would be happy with, at all. It would feel like Lucasfilm is too scared to fully commit to reylo, and it would ultimately leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

@Lovely_Rose

They are not killing off the last Skywalker. True, his last name is not technically Skywalker, yet the hope for the bloodline is Ben Solo. He is Leia's son, and Anakin's grandson (Luke's nephew), and great-grandson of Shmi Skywalker!

I believe the worse case scenario an acknowledgment of the romantic feelings, yet separate paths/ways because of separate missions in life. (Books and comics would then have them cross paths). Best case scenario is a HEA with a wedding and babies.

So how much do we trust Geekfurious? Since some were saying that he posted genuine info on TLJ I decided to ask him about JP's leaks. Turns out he thinks they're real and in a round about way confirmed Ben's death after my prompting (he also says he dislikes JP heavily and thinks he's twisting a knife in reylos with the way he's describing scenes.) I don't want to bring the mood down here but I thought this info would be useful.

Personally I will believe this when I see it.

@Lovely_Rose he has been saying for days now that he thinks JP is mostly correct. He also said in the last day or so JP is wrong on something he posted and as you went back and forth with him on any emotional context. I think he believes there is more to Ben’s death than JP is saying. He posted the other day of wondering aloud if the force bond can live on after death and then they will always be together etc.

Riri has been having some on going discussions with him that I’m sure she could give a better explanation to.

Lovely_Rose wrote:So how much do we trust Geekfurious? Since some were saying that he posted genuine info on TLJ I decided to ask him about JP's leaks. Turns out he thinks they're real and in a round about way confirmed Ben's death after my prompting (he also says he dislikes JP heavily and thinks he's twisting a knife in reylos with the way he's describing scenes.) I don't want to bring the mood down here but I thought this info would be useful.

Personally I will believe this when I see it.

@Lovely_Rose

The theory is Ben does die, then he is brought back to life. Those who are..perhaps...trustworthy with the leaks know about the death, but not coming back to life. I fully expect and prepared for Ben to die, and then resurrect (i.e. Beauty and the Beast)

Kyla Ren wrote:In this video, Jason Ward says that Rey steals the Millennium Falcon from Kylo's star destroyer and that Kylo and the stormtroopers are being pushed back by the Falcon's afterburners as she blasts off.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96BXvoqeXw

@Kyla Ren

I think JP leaked something about her stealing back the Falcon too, but I don’t remember him mentioning Kylo being there to see it. I don’t think it’s unusual they are hearing the same things, because both of them also heard the whole “Han cheated on Leia and the affair produced Rey” garbage, although MSW labeled it rumor and IIRC JP didn’t find it all that credible either. But the fact they both heard something so blatantly false goes back to the point of misinformation being sent around to them. This particular point seems plausible enough to be true.

If Bespin was threatened, that is wrong on all levels and hopefully he reported it. It’s just a movie, no one should be threatening anyone over it. I don’t buy all these leaks and sometimes wonder about intent, but I believe that’s fair. Threats/abusive language aren’t. I think the vast majority of Reylos, SW fans in general, and just regular human beings are decent people and would condone that type of vile behavior.

whisperingwillow wrote:@Lovely_Rose he has been saying for days now that he thinks JP is mostly correct. He also said in the last day or so JP is wrong on something he posted and as you went back and forth with him on any emotional context. I think he believes there is more to Ben’s death than JP is saying. He posted the other day of wondering aloud if the force bond can live on after death and then they will always be together etc.

Riri has been having some on going discussions with him that I’m sure she could give a better explanation to.

@whisperingwillow

If this happens, J.J is totally inspired by Xena. lol A character who started off OK, ended up evil, and went on a complete journey to redeem herself. haha The show ended with, as Gabrielle said "you let them kill you." So, if Ben dies, and stays dead, it's his choice

summary of the end of the Xena series. A part of me will OMG squee laugh if TRoS ends this way because I'll then know JJ was definitely inspired by Xena.

"Gabrielle begins the ceremony to bring Xena back. Xena puts her hand on her arm and stops her. She tells Gabrielle that even though the souls are released, their deaths must be avenged. Akeme didn't want to tell her that, she says. Xena tells Gabrielle that she must stay dead. "If I bring you back to life, the souls will be lost forever," Gabrielle says. "That isn't right!" she cries. She says she doesn't care. "You're all that matters to me!" she says.

Xena looks very sad. She tells Gabrielle that it must be. "If there is a reason for our travels together, it's because I had to learn from you .... to learn the good, the right thing to do. .... I can't come back," Xena says.

Gabrielle cries. "I love you, Xena. How am I supposed to go on?" Xena tells Gabrielle she will always be with her. They sit beside the fountain, Gabrielle resting her head on Xena's shoulder, holding her ashes. They watch the sun set, and as the last remnants of light begin to fade, Xena vanishes, leaving Gabrielle alone. "Xena," Gabrielle whispers.

Gabrielle, on a boat, holds Xena's ashes. Xena the ghost appears, and tells Gabrielle she will always be alive, in Gabrielle's heart. She asks Gabrielle what will happen now? Gabrielle says she will go to the land of the Pharaohs. "I hear they need a girl with a chakram," she says.

"Wherever you go, I'm always at your side," Xena says. "I knew you'd say that," Gabrielle replies.

Gabrielle, standing alone on the boat, drifts over the water as the sun sets."

http://www.whoosh.org/epguide/friend2.html

About Kylo's death, Jason was the first leaker who said he heard that Kylo will die in TROS by being yeeted into the pit, just like how he "heard" that Rey is Han Solo's love child.

-> Paxis said Kylo will die but he didn't know how Kylo will die (?!)

-> Then Jason posted the money shot article in which he mentioned again that Kylo will be yeeted into the pit. And the way he described it in that article sounded like he just broke into Disney's record room and literally saw how Kylo dies in TROS with his own eyes.

-> And suddenly Paxis came up with the final chapter of his TROS leak and he "confirmed" that Kylo will be yeeted into the pit and never to be seen again. (?!)

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:

Lovely_Rose wrote:So how much do we trust Geekfurious? Since some were saying that he posted genuine info on TLJ I decided to ask him about JP's leaks. Turns out he thinks they're real and in a round about way confirmed Ben's death after my prompting (he also says he dislikes JP heavily and thinks he's twisting a knife in reylos with the way he's describing scenes.) I don't want to bring the mood down here but I thought this info would be useful.

Personally I will believe this when I see it.

@Lovely_Rose

The theory is Ben does die, then he is brought back to life. Those who are..perhaps...trustworthy with the leaks know about the death, but not coming back to life. I fully expect and prepared for Ben to die, and then resurrect (i.e. Beauty and the Beast)

@SW_Heroine_Journey

MSW DID say that, but now the thinking seems to be his "resurrection" is actually the scene in Act 2 where Rey supposedly stabs Kylo in the chest then revives him while talking about how much better she is.

ZioRen wrote:

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:

Lovely_Rose wrote:So how much do we trust Geekfurious? Since some were saying that he posted genuine info on TLJ I decided to ask him about JP's leaks. Turns out he thinks they're real and in a round about way confirmed Ben's death after my prompting (he also says he dislikes JP heavily and thinks he's twisting a knife in reylos with the way he's describing scenes.) I don't want to bring the mood down here but I thought this info would be useful.

Personally I will believe this when I see it.

@Lovely_Rose

The theory is Ben does die, then he is brought back to life.  Those who are..perhaps...trustworthy with the leaks know about the death, but not coming back to life.  I fully expect and prepared for Ben to die, and then resurrect (i.e. Beauty and the Beast)

@SW_Heroine_Journey

MSW DID say that, but now the thinking seems to be his "resurrection" is actually the scene in Act 2 where Rey supposedly stabs Kylo in the chest then revives him while talking about how much better she is.

@ZioRen

The resurrection is Jason's speculation for act 3. Jp said Rey saves Kylo from death by healing him because according to them Rey's power is healing, not necromancing. JP never mentions resurrection in his leak.

ZioRen wrote:

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:

Lovely_Rose wrote:So how much do we trust Geekfurious? Since some were saying that he posted genuine info on TLJ I decided to ask him about JP's leaks. Turns out he thinks they're real and in a round about way confirmed Ben's death after my prompting (he also says he dislikes JP heavily and thinks he's twisting a knife in reylos with the way he's describing scenes.) I don't want to bring the mood down here but I thought this info would be useful.

Personally I will believe this when I see it.

@Lovely_Rose

The theory is Ben does die, then he is brought back to life. Those who are..perhaps...trustworthy with the leaks know about the death, but not coming back to life. I fully expect and prepared for Ben to die, and then resurrect (i.e. Beauty and the Beast)

@SW_Heroine_Journey

MSW DID say that, but now the thinking seems to be his "resurrection" is actually the scene in Act 2 where Rey supposedly stabs Kylo in the chest then revives him while talking about how much better she is.

@ZioRen

If it's true, and I doubt it because I admit my bias about MSW (I think he is a dudebro, with his dudebro fic, and is not a Reylo ally); however, IF there is any element of truth to this, then it's Dark Rey that does it, and there is more to the story afterwards, which will be positive for Bendemption and Reylo. Such an action is so cruel, especially from someone compassionate as Rey, and a movie released around Christmas. (And the advertising emphasizes "Christmas" versus December 20th).