Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Kylo Rey wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:If there's one thing that saddens me about the ST it's that Adam and Harrison didn't have more scenes together.

@motherofpearl1

I mean at least he’s getting another scene with him in TROS. He has none with Carrie at all, which is truly heartwrenching.

@Kylo Rey

It is sad, but see my speculation about Leia's last moments, R2 being in the room, and why Ben must be alive to get the message. It's just conjecture of mine, but I believe it has merit (R2 being there is an actual leak - I think it must have a purpose). It would be a bittersweet but still satisfying way to provide closure to the mother/son relationship.

spacebaby45678 wrote:Well this is a good summation of the leaks if I ever heard one. Clear and cogent... worth a listen

@spacebaby45678



Lol..that's not leias saber. No one seems to know/not confirmed.


I'm telling ya, its obi wans,  kylo does not die  they cross the sabers together to kill palpatine. Thrown down a hole and that's it?


The leaks are controlled.

Gemini wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:Well this is a good summation of the leaks if I ever heard one. Clear and cogent... worth a listen

@spacebaby45678



Lol..that's not leias saber.


I'm telling ya, its obi wans,  kylo does not die  they cross the sabers together to kill palpatine. Thrown down a hole and that's it?


The leaks are controlled.

@Gemini

The Den Of Nerds guy is all in on the leaks... Isn't he a Reylo?

I love how people believe leaks before using reasoning and logic and counting in the actual lore of the previous 8 saga movies.

Seeing this going around Twitter. Can anyone :confirm: that he’s actually talking about Kylo? Because permanent death wouldn’t be described as “fun,” in most people’s books.

If it is Leia’s lightsaber, it could also be Obi-Wan’s. That scenario makes most sense to me too in terms of emotional punch. My gut tells me “down a pit” isn’t ultimately right, but MSW did see actual footage of Rey with the sabers crossed vs. Palpatine’s lightning. I don’t think he just made that up. I could certainly see JJ and KK thinking Rey needs to defeat Palpatine alone, unfortunately. I find it shortsighted and essentially ignoring the greater saga if they do that though. You can’t spend 8 movies telling the story of the Skywalker family being tormented by evil only for a Palpatine to handle it all on her own with a mere pep talk/ jolt of energy. That wouldn’t even work for me if she was a Kenobi or a nobody.

One thing I thought was revealing last night with JediPaxis: Someone asked him how much dialogue he has. He said something like practically none. That opens up all kinds of possibilities. If you watch a TV show or movie with no sound and no CC, you can’t be sure of what’s happening unless you’re a lip reader. Would VFX people (if that’s where the leaks are coming from) have the audio? Or would they just be working on video images?

On an unrelated note, R2 is the astromech/co-pilot/whatever you call it (I’m bad at the technical lingo, sorry all, LOL) in Poe’s ship in one of the toy leaks. If it’s accurate to film and not another “Rey breaks the rock and finds a kyber crystal” LEGO situation like we had with TLJ, I wonder why and how that comes about. BB-8 we see rolling in front of the horses in the trailer. I have to say, the minimal use of R2 this trilogy is so frustrating to me. I love BB-8 too, he’s actually my second favorite ST character behind only Kylo, but my heart lies with Artoo.

Is that the D23 interview?
I told my 12 year old about the leak where Kylo is thrown down a pit never to be seen again. I asked him what he thought about it?
He told me 'Well, if he falls down a pit, he will rise from it.'
I keep reminding myself that Star Wars is aimed toward 12 year old kids.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Seeing this going around Twitter. Can anyone :confirm: that he’s actually talking about Kylo? Because permanent death wouldn’t be described as “fun,” in most people’s books.

@Cowgirlsamurai
Yes, he was talking about Kylo. I agree, I would never call death something "fun", that's why I think there has to be something more.
Here's the video: https://twitter.com/MTVNEWS/status/1166846566868639752

@Birdwoman

Dude. Kids everywhere, my own included, would be pretty upset if he died. Kylo’s half of the protagonist of these films and we’re all just waiting for him to do the right thing. To have him die a permanent death would be very unDisney/LF-like.

Thank you @Moonlight13!

Moonlight13 wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Seeing this going around Twitter. Can anyone :confirm: that he’s actually talking about Kylo? Because permanent death wouldn’t be described as “fun,” in most people’s books.

@Cowgirlsamurai
Yes, he was talking about Kylo. I agree, I would never call death something "fun", that's why I think there has to be something more.
Here's the video: https://twitter.com/MTVNEWS/status/1166846566868639752

@Moonlight13

ya i remember the interviewer was asking specifically about redemption and JJ pivoted to convo to kylo just being doing cool stuff. This interview actually did remind me why the leaks sound so wrong because the leaks don't show much hype surrounding kylo

@spacebaby45678 about Den of Nerds, seriously i want an explanation!! I don't understand the blind devotion!!!!!

I was just thinking about the part where Rey stabs Kylo with her lightsaber (or the dagger? though I think the leak says lightsaber). Does it specify that she resurrects him, or that she simply heals his wound before running away? I feel like from what I read it's a healing power that she has, but not necessarily a full on resurrecting power.  

That would make a bit more sense in terms of foreshadowing the power early and then having her use it to just heal him at the end of Act II.

I'm definitely thinking more and more that the force transporting power hung on the wall at the beginning of the film (and that is used throughout) is the actual "gun that must fire" so to speak (and not the healing power) in the third act. It's just the thing that makes the most sense. So for now I'm still sticking with: Ben was using the power to join Rey with Palpatine and he's actually back at the Death Star. It's an elegant solution.

Even though everyone seems angry at J.J. right now (for plot points that aren't yet in the film, that may or may not be complete or accurate) he's firstly a crowd pleaser by his own admission. I can see him really enjoying crafting a sequence where both Rey and the audience realize Ben is still alive on the DS after believing he's dead. He'd work the hell out of that.



ETA: I'm confused about one thing: how is Kylo supposed to be holding "Leia's saber" in that final scene according to the leaks? Where is he supposed to have gotten it? I think I missed that detail.

The theory on the last page about marrying the two sets of Kylo being stabbed leaks is interesting. Because that was always one of the buggest gripes I had about them. It's not just an incomplete picture, it's like two or three conflicting pictures at the same time. Perhaps no one knows, or has bothered to inform us, of how the different sets might be connected as one, so it doesn't full make sense right now.

The original JP leak had the oracle, yes? Now we think it was concept art that turned into the Aki-Aki? The dyad isn't involved anymore? I really do struggle to follow leaks from the same person with how it shifts and deviates. As much as people liked JP's first leak back in early spring, I find it odd that Disney didn't shoot him down the way they did BothanSpy.

And yes, I'm sad about the lack of Kylo/Leia, and honestly everyone/Leia, and frankly just Leia. They'll make do with what they have. It was one of the earliest things about TROS they bragged about, even over a year ago.

I think the best way to look at the leaks is that any information that has to do purely with dialogue is extremely dubious, while the information about locations and what the characters *do* is more likely to be correct. So while something like “Rey and Kylo have a fight in location X” can be legit, anything that the characters actually say to each other during the scene (like Kylo’s ridiculous Rey’s background info dump) is suspect.

Gemini wrote:@Spacebaby45678

The old rule of Hollywood.
"Give me the same thing but different"
Twist the twist.
We have already seen the protagonist be related to the bad guy in star wars.
That's not the twist. The twist is what ever Rey learns /audience learns about Rey here, whatever it is, these shots are goosebumps inducing shots usually after we learn a secret about a characters backstory.



And there is another blue saber there to guide her.Of all things.

@Gemini


Gem, you are so right, this shot is about self realization and identity...

And, someone just made such a beautiful and moving parallel... goose bump inducing and tear jerking, first shot of Rey is masked " who are you?" no one...



Last shot of Rey... The force will be with you always




I see you JJ... I see you

Saracene wrote:I think the best way to look at the leaks is that any information that has to do purely with dialogue is extremely dubious, while the information about locations and what the characters *do* is more likely to be correct. So while something like “Rey and Kylo have a fight in location X” can be legit, anything that the characters actually say to each other during the scene (like Kylo’s ridiculous Rey’s background info dump) is suspect.

@Saracene
Yes. In fact someone just asked JP yesterday if he knew any actual dialogue and he said very, very little (read: he doesn't actually know any). In addition, someone recently asked him to clarify if the line that Rey says when she stabs him (something like "I will never be like you/fall to the dark side like you!") is an actual known line, and he admitted it was not. So that's really important for everyone to know.

@nickandnora The leaks don’t say Kylo uses Leia’s lightsaber, he uses Anakin’s. In terms of the stabbing nonsense, he claims Rey stabs him through the chest with his own lightsaber. That implies to me that if true, he drops it in shock/sadness re: Leia, and she picks it up and stabs him.

Like I said the other day, the only way that could work for me is if she’s possessed or otherwise heavily influenced by the dark side. Otherwise, I don’t know if her character can come back from that for me. It’s just so cruel and heartless. I have a hard time imagining JJ dirtying her up that much, but maybe for the shock factor.

@Cowgirlsamurai



@Cowgirlsamurai

we understand each other perfectly !!

@Moonlight13
thanks for the twitter video

@rey09

about Den of Nerds , I think it's a person who loves leaks and who obviously has his ideas, but he looks like someone who is neither left nor right. always the typical person who goes where the mass is.
first it was no reylo, then he had a liking for Reylo, now with these leaks and with the chat with JW he came back with
  no Reylo.

anyway I saw the trailer ten times and all of the times it sent me the same emotion I felt the first time.
sadness, sadness for the phrase of the old C3PO
hope, because of the colors in the trailer and for the music. The writing "the story will live forever", where our two young people appear, is no accident. We are talking about a fairy tale, that moment has been studied on purpose. if I see the writing "the story will live forever", knowing the dynamics of the two protagonists, hearing the music in the background creates hype and great hope, hope that between those two everything will be resolved in the best way, that they will have peace and love in their lives but above all belonging they seek so desperately.

those leaks that came out, if we talk about the final parts and Reylo, have nothing to do with the trailer, nor with all that we know and that they provided us with reliable sources.
being afraid is normal but before becoming a fan of Reylo I saw you, you were rocks when they made fun of you, you fought for years. And now that these leaks have come out there has been a crash.
You most of all know how to face these things head-on. I will always be positive until I see with my eyes. I will return to see all the interviews, and all the official material to understand more, because I am convinced that what is inside the leaks is garbage, it is just an excuse to create panic, panic towards us. We must be better than them and be confident.
we know that Rey and Ben will have two lightsabers, we know that palpatine will die.
we do not know if Ben will die, but I am convinced that it will not happen. even if he has abandoned (I think momentarily his lightsaber) he is still in the dark side, he is not 100% light, precisely because there must be balance. But he is at the side of Rey again but with a different lightsaber. my only concern is not "death " of Ben Solo. Ben Solo will not die like a lot of sh*t)
my olny concern if force ghost of Luke and Leia.

I'm afraid that only Rey will see them and this makes me angry

AcrosstheStars wrote:@nickandnora The leaks don’t say Kylo uses Leia’s lightsaber, he uses Anakin’s. In terms of the stabbing nonsense, he claims Rey stabs him through the chest with his own lightsaber. That implies to me that if true, he drops it in shock/sadness re: Leia, and she picks it up and stabs him.

Like I said the other day, the only way that could work for me is if she’s possessed or otherwise heavily influenced by the dark side. Otherwise, I don’t know if her character can come back from that for me. It’s just so cruel and heartless. I have a hard time imagining JJ dirtying her up that much, but maybe for the shock factor.

@AcrosstheStars

The leaks make no sense in regard to that because she stabs him, says she will never be like him/go to the darkside, but then when she runs off to Achto she's pissed that she let the dark side take over, including with the stabbing. So which is it?

I was thinking of a scenario building on ideas of others here, if she hurts him while taken to the darkside, and then she freaks out because- she never actually meant to hurt him (because she loves him) and kylo also is shocked because he didn't expect it. After all, their fighting is just foreplay. Rey then tries to heal him and it becomes a tense emotional moment for them and makes them confront their true feelings for each other, insert *almost kiss* but doesn't happen as rey runs away because she can't deal with it.

rey09 wrote:

AcrosstheStars wrote:@nickandnora The leaks don’t say Kylo uses Leia’s lightsaber, he uses Anakin’s. In terms of the stabbing nonsense, he claims Rey stabs him through the chest with his own lightsaber. That implies to me that if true, he drops it in shock/sadness re: Leia, and she picks it up and stabs him.

Like I said the other day, the only way that could work for me is if she’s possessed or otherwise heavily influenced by the dark side. Otherwise, I don’t know if her character can come back from that for me. It’s just so cruel and heartless. I have a hard time imagining JJ dirtying her up that much, but maybe for the shock factor.

@AcrosstheStars

The leaks make no sense in regard to that because she stabs him, says she will never be like him/go to the darkside, but then when she runs off to Achto she's pissed that she let the dark side take over, including with the stabbing. So which is it?

I was thinking of a scenario building on ideas of others here, if she hurts him while taken to the darkside, and then she freaks out because- she never actually meant to hurt him (because she loves him) and kylo also is shocked because he didn't expect it. After all, their fighting is just foreplay. Rey then tries to heal him and it becomes a tense emotional moment for them and makes them confront their true feelings for each other, insert *almost kiss* but doesn't happen as rey runs away because she can't deal with it.

@rey09

I'm kind of toying around with the idea that either the stabbing, or the act of healing (involving touching maybe), or both has some significance to the plot that we don't realize, even beyond Rey just realizing what she's done and feeling guilty. I've got a vague notion of a theory that maybe both of those acts cause her to see some important visions. After all, the one time they touched they both had visions, and she's never actually *stabbed* him (slashed him, but there's never been any actual, ahem, penetration) so I wonder what she would see if she did both of those things? It would explain why this scene is so devoid of any sense and emotion on the page; it's lacking the actual crux or twist of the thing. So perhaps the main thing she's reacting to isn't even what she *did* (though her horror and guilt would certainly be at the forefront), it's what she *saw*. That would be really interesting. And very, VERY J.J.

nickandnora wrote:

rey09 wrote:

AcrosstheStars wrote:@nickandnora The leaks don’t say Kylo uses Leia’s lightsaber, he uses Anakin’s. In terms of the stabbing nonsense, he claims Rey stabs him through the chest with his own lightsaber. That implies to me that if true, he drops it in shock/sadness re: Leia, and she picks it up and stabs him.

Like I said the other day, the only way that could work for me is if she’s possessed or otherwise heavily influenced by the dark side. Otherwise, I don’t know if her character can come back from that for me. It’s just so cruel and heartless. I have a hard time imagining JJ dirtying her up that much, but maybe for the shock factor.

@AcrosstheStars

The leaks make no sense in regard to that because she stabs him, says she will never be like him/go to the darkside, but then when she runs off to Achto she's pissed that she let the dark side take over, including with the stabbing. So which is it?

I was thinking of a scenario building on ideas of others here, if she hurts him while taken to the darkside, and then she freaks out because- she never actually meant to hurt him (because she loves him) and kylo also is shocked because he didn't expect it. After all, their fighting is just foreplay. Rey then tries to heal him and it becomes a tense emotional moment for them and makes them confront their true feelings for each other, insert *almost kiss* but doesn't happen as rey runs away because she can't deal with it.

@rey09

I'm kind of toying around with the idea that either the stabbing, or the act of healing (involving touching maybe), or both has some significance to the plot that we don't realize, even beyond Rey just realizing what she's done and feeling guilty. I've got a vague notion of a theory that maybe both of those acts cause her to see some important visions. After all, the one time they touched they both had visions, and she's never actually *stabbed* him (slashed him, but there's never been any actual, ahem, penetration) so I wonder what she would see if she did both of those things? It would explain why this scene is so devoid of any sense and emotion on the page; it's lacking the actual crux or twist of the thing. So perhaps the main thing she's reacting to isn't even what she *did* (though her horror and guilt would certainly be at the forefront), it's what she *saw*. That would be really interesting. And very, VERY J.J.

@nickandnora

Yeah I totally buy that!

Kylo Rey wrote:
Which is what I find so funny, because they’ve been trying to push the Resistance thing for literal years now, but apart from the faux woke crowd, the large majority and the GA don’t seem to care one bit. Finn and Poe and their chemistry was liked well enough in TFA, but that faded away relatively quickly. Rey and Kylo are the only ones who stand to have a long lasting impact after this trilogy is over, if they’re not ruined in IX that is.

And as much as I find all the Resistance stuff boring and derivative, I could still understand the insistence with pushing them on the audience, if they were popular, but they’re not. You know how at every Celebration the crowd cheers the most when ever Kylo shows up on screen? It’s a great illustration of how popular he is (I remember he got waaaay louder cheers than Rey once), but it also makes me cringe because you often don't hear a peep at all when the heroes are on screen. Their toys don’t seem to sell much either and their google search results are absolutely pitiable in comparison to Kylo. There’s just not much interest there. As much as I dislike the Marvel movies and the impact they’ve had on film criticism, you can’t deny that they’ve succeeded in making their heroes immensely popular and well loved.

But on a more positive note, I’d be down with a Kylo/Ben Solo movie or trilogy down the line if he survives. I like the ST, but it would be a massive win win without having to sit through all the filler and completely focusing on Ben. Contrary to popular opinion I think Adam would be down to return as well. He’s already shown that’s he gonna continue to do big movies post-Star Wars with the Ridley Scott movie that he’s doing in January. He’s clearly moving up the ladder and I don’t think he’ll just be doing indie movies anymore.

@Kylo Rey

Yeah, I remember how people reacted when they saw the fake trio at SW celebration, I know people don't really give a **** about the resistance but, you see




0% of 7000 votes in this official SW poll is just over-the-top pathetic. It seems like people not only don't care about the resistance but also start to hate their filler plot.

This idea reminds me of how we didn't know about the FB. Are they both physically there, is someone possessed, is there some greater emotional context, is it a vision, is it a fakeout, is it necessary for some reason we haven't been told yet? So many options, but leakers aren't concerned about creativity or other potential scenarios or meanings than the ones they put forth.

Okay - my thoughts on the JP leaks and JW (to a certain extent) -
JW sometimes gets his stuff from sitting on roofs across the street from buildings where they are filming, so...take that how you will.
I'm inclined to lean with others on the net that postulate that JW and JP get their leaks from marketing, embargoed images, and trailer viewings.

Most of the rest is their fanfic.

The Mouse sniped a leaked image the other day (Ben and Rey, both apparently holding blue lightsabers)...like instantly.

If these leaks are truly legit and tell the meat of the story - why are they still up? JP and certainly JW would have been served at this point. I think it seems pretty clear that the Mouse has let this stuff fester because the real stuff is stuff that we're going to get pre-film, regardless.

I refuse to worry about these two dudes or their leaks. If they are legit - they lack context and emotion and are virtually worthless. And if they aren't, well, they're worthless.

nickandnora wrote:

rey09 wrote:

AcrosstheStars wrote:@nickandnora The leaks don’t say Kylo uses Leia’s lightsaber, he uses Anakin’s. In terms of the stabbing nonsense, he claims Rey stabs him through the chest with his own lightsaber. That implies to me that if true, he drops it in shock/sadness re: Leia, and she picks it up and stabs him.

Like I said the other day, the only way that could work for me is if she’s possessed or otherwise heavily influenced by the dark side. Otherwise, I don’t know if her character can come back from that for me. It’s just so cruel and heartless. I have a hard time imagining JJ dirtying her up that much, but maybe for the shock factor.

@AcrosstheStars

The leaks make no sense in regard to that because she stabs him, says she will never be like him/go to the darkside, but then when she runs off to Achto she's pissed that she let the dark side take over, including with the stabbing. So which is it?

I was thinking of a scenario building on ideas of others here, if she hurts him while taken to the darkside, and then she freaks out because- she never actually meant to hurt him (because she loves him) and kylo also is shocked because he didn't expect it. After all, their fighting is just foreplay. Rey then tries to heal him and it becomes a tense emotional moment for them and makes them confront their true feelings for each other, insert *almost kiss* but doesn't happen as rey runs away because she can't deal with it.

@rey09

I'm kind of toying around with the idea that either the stabbing, or the act of healing (involving touching maybe), or both has some significance to the plot that we don't realize, even beyond Rey just realizing what she's done and feeling guilty. I've got a vague notion of a theory that maybe both of those acts cause her to see some important visions. After all, the one time they touched they both had visions, and she's never actually *stabbed* him (slashed him, but there's never been any actual, ahem, penetration) so I wonder what she would see if she did both of those things? It would explain why this scene is so devoid of any sense and emotion on the page; it's lacking the actual crux or twist of the thing. So perhaps the main thing she's reacting to isn't even what she *did* (though her horror and guilt would certainly be at the forefront), it's what she *saw*. That would be really interesting. And very, VERY J.J.

@nickandnora

That’s an interesting thought— like maybe they’re battling each other and either Rey or both feels angry and betrayed, and it’s heated on her end at least, and she acts before she thinks when they both feel the loss of Leia...he’s off his guard, so she stabs him without really having wanted to...and something like the Pensieve in Harry Potter or the Force visions in TFA occurs.  Maybe she sees and hears the Dark voice penetrating the mind of a little boy, or sees the Jedi Academy classmates coming after him to kill him, or him begging his parents not to leave him with Luke because he just wants to stay home with them, or something like him trying to make it all stop.  And then she heals him and feels terrible and runs away.

This seems to be a 2 McGuffin movie...

The dagger.. sith conspiracy that murdered Rey's parents?
Something in the death star that both the Resistance and the FO need?


Can one movie contain two McGuffin plots?


Rey... two new powers... Lightening bolts that knock a ship out of the sky, and healing hands

Why does Rey not just use her lightening bolts against Palpls?

LOL about the Resistance love

It’s hard to care about them when their goal to save the galaxy is so abstract. To be honest, other than the PT maybe the SW universe in the movies to me always felt kinda empty and unlived-in, so it’s hard to really care about saving it from the bad guys. But at least in the OT the Rebels are just the background and not the centre of the characters’ existence. I mean, Luke just gets up and goes to Dagoba in ESB with no pretence that he’s doing it for the Rebels’ sake, he’s simply following his personal desires.

I just hope that JJ can at least bring back the fun Finn/Poe dynamic that everyone dug in TFA, otherwise all the serious earnest good guy stuff and inspirational speeches are going to be a chore to sit through.