Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

It's also interesting that in the ROTJ Leia leaves the rebellion, albeit temporarily, to help save Han - in short, she puts saving the man she loves first.
And ultimately in the ST she is once again consumed by her duties, first to the Republic then the Resistance and sadly it triggers the disintegration of both her marriage and the relationship with her only child.
Putting duty before love..... doesn't seem to work well does it?

Yeh i think “duty” gets stale when there are no personal relationships at stake, i guess this is why Finn will have his Rose and Jannah storyline, and Poe will have err Zorri?

It is kinda hilarious the Resistance is at 0% lol, honestly it says a lot! I love how they put Rey and Kylo at the bottom of the poll and just called it “Everything with Rey and Kylo” almost like they knew it would stomp on all the other options.

I doubt very much it'll happen now, but I was hoping that at the end Rey would go off with Ben if only for someone to finally put him first, but that will be at odds with her image of a pure force for the greater good, which they seem to be aiming for.
One thing that interests me though....
When Rey is saying that no one knows her...who is she talking to? I have a feeling it isn't Kylo, but someone in the Resistance.

@motherofpearl1

Rey is talking to Kylo when she says no one knows her because of the translations in other languages, Kylo’s “i do” is a response to Rey. Japanese/Spanish/Italian all have variations of that piece of dialogue, and they all work as a response to Rey’s line.

Moonlight13 wrote:I just wanted to say that Han, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader, Luke... almost everyone who died, are old people (or coded as old) and mentor figures. Killing a young character has totally different implications, it makes their death even more tragic (like Padmé's death in ROTS), because it's like "killing the future", in my opinion. I don't think they would want to end a 40-year-old saga about love and hope with tragedy, but that's just my opinion.

@Moonlight13

Yep. And Padme's death -- tragic as it was -- yielded Luke and Leia... so HER "line" was continued. I cannot even imagine killing HER 29-year old grandson in this saga of family lineage all the while calling it "hopeful" and "satisfying." I just can't.

@Gemini

I don’t know. You love the Rey Kenobi idea, I don’t care about Rey’s lineage. I don’t see the parallels you see the same way. I see them as the usual call-backs in the SW universe. Plus, there’s always a lot of mirroring at play in general. Life itself is full of mirroring - I am getting philosophical. My biggest issue with Rey Kenobi, apart from destroying the epic “You’re nothing. But not to me”, is that it’s underwhelming for the GA. It’s in my opinion too late for it. It should have been revealed at the end of the first movie, latest mid-second movie. Heck, if I dare say it’d be like the Luke/Leia reveal which changed the story, but isn’t a very emotional scene and feels very much like a last not well-thought-through move from GL. Maybe LF will go there to have their cake and eat it too (more Kenobi stuff), but I personally find it unnecessary to the story of the ST and they only need to bring Ewan McGregor back as OB1 to sell whatever they want to sell because everyone loves him.

In less than 2 months, we will know anyway. Just wanted to mention the story around the origin of Ben’s name, which if true, could be one of these nice anecdotes in a making of the ST book and also a good movie trivia question.

motherofpearl1 wrote:I doubt very much it'll happen now, but I was hoping that at the end Rey would go off with Ben if only for someone to finally put him first, but that will be at odds with her image of a pure force for the greater good, which they seem to be aiming for.
One thing that interests me though....
When Rey is saying that no one knows her...who is she talking to? I have a feeling it isn't Kylo, but someone in the Resistance.

@motherofpearl1

My bet, if not Ben, is on Finn. But then where does Ben’s “But I do” fit in? Or she’s talking to Finn, but Ben, feeling her distress, intrudes to answer “But I do” angering her. That could lead to her having to admit to Finn that no she is not crazy and hearing voices, but that she has a complicated relationship with the enemy. I like my probably-not-happening theory

nickandnora wrote:

Saracene wrote:I think the best way to look at the leaks is that any information that has to do purely with dialogue is extremely dubious, while the information about locations and what the characters *do* is more likely to be correct. So while something like “Rey and Kylo have a fight in location X” can be legit, anything that the characters actually say to each other during the scene (like Kylo’s ridiculous Rey’s background info dump) is suspect.

@Saracene
Yes. In fact someone just asked JP yesterday if he knew any actual dialogue and he said very, very little (read: he doesn't actually know any). In addition, someone recently asked him to clarify if the line that Rey says when she stabs him (something like "I will never be like you/fall to the dark side like you!") is an actual known line, and he admitted it was not. So that's really important for everyone to know.

@nickandnora

So JP is making up actual dialogue? I'm asking because I don't follow leaks in general, but this thread has gone south in a major way to the extent that I think it should be moved to Maz's Castle. Imagine if JP reads this thread the god complex the guy would get! Ugh.

As less-than-riveting as the Resistance cause is, I like the characters and their dynamic, and the actors playing them, enough that I can sit through it fine. LOL about the 0% though. I think at least one actor mentioned the Resistance being less than perfect? That would be nice. I know many people didn't love Canto Bight, or even the Poe-Holdo low speed space chase, but I think the intention there was partly from knowing it would be even more boring otherwise.

Anyone know what Billy Dee's role in TROS is? So long as he gets a few really good acting moments or a monologue, I'll be happy.

It's nice for Billy Dee to be there, not just for him but because he's the last of the original group, apart from Threepio.

@Sangharen

I guess we will agree to disagree. I think saving the missing puzzle piece until the very end is quite standard in film. Theres only IMO one reason why they have not revealed it, it's because who she is is the most important thing that fits the saga together. It always has been. Had they revealed it too soon. It would give the ending away. That's why I've always  said they removed the answer from TFA vision sequence in the teaser trailer because it answers everything. Now this saber appears to be brought to Rey by Kylo in Part 9.

I will never agree that "you're nothing, you're no one" was a beautiful moment, its very negative and regressive for Rey. Its emotional manipulation from the bad guy with evil plans to squash her light and make her depend on him. Rian Johnson even said he deliberately made her feel like she had nothing and no one so she would lean on him, Rian Johnson also said he was telling a half truth to her in that moment.

Kylo is emotionally manipulating her in TLJ. It's not healthy. It's not equality,  It's not beautiful. LF even confirmed recently that the relationship was part emotional manipulation.  How is that in any way empowering to a person?

I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish Reys importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.

He is not a 100% good guy yet. That's also being saved for the end and it is tying in with the key he brings her it seems.

Gemini wrote:I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish rays importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.

@Gemini

According to the director, it was also a lot more complicated than just manipulation:

"I'll say this – the moment when Kylo makes his appeal for her to join him, and Adam captured it so well in his little please, it was important to me that it wasn't a chess game, it wasn't just a manipulation. It's unhealthy, and there's much that is awful about the way that he is manipulative. From his point of view, it's a very naked, open, emotional appeal. It's his version of, 'I'm just a girl standing in front of a guy'... wrote:

The one thing that gives me hope is how Disney very quickly removed those pictures from reddit yet they haven't shut down the leakers.

This means that the pics were genuine but if these leaks were giving something really important away I'm sure they'd be shut down too.
So....I suspect they've took no action because the leaks are wildly untrue.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if JJ is sitting somewhere having a good laugh at it all!

Saracene wrote:

Gemini wrote:I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish rays importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.

@Gemini

According to the director, it was also a lot more complicated than just manipulation:

@Saracene

He is calling it unhealthy and manipulative . That's not powerful for rey or him.

Thank you for that quote, it proves my point.


Its selfish, unhealthy love. I never said it wasnt love. He thinks it's pure because he is not redeemed yet, hes selfish, that's what the dark side does. Confirmed by GL

Healthy love is where you dont try to squash the other person to make them depend on you. By telling them they are nothing and making them think all the person has is them in the world. It's like spike and buffy, until he redeemed himself, they are now together in the comics in a healthy place.

Its textbook emotionall manipulation what kylo did. Albeit, he doesnt realise this in that moment. To him, in his current, corrupted state of mind he is spilling his heart out in an honest way, however because its selfish dark side love, it's not healthy.

Kylo is not the good guy in TLJ. He is still on the dark side.

californiagirl wrote:I presumed we were here to have conversations with each other, not put out thoughts and opinions into the void simply because. When I referred to Khan, I should have clarified I meant as a much broader thing across the internet, not just specifically this forum.

They put out a Solo movie after the title character died... and it became the only SW movie to flop. There was incredibly little hype leading up to its release, despite the popularity of Han. Now there's a narrative that SW is dead because of that movie, and it's basically up to TROS to prove otherwise. I have a hard time envisioning them doing the same huge mistake twice in a row.

Moreover, Vader was distinctly older than Kylo, there's far more to mine through comics, an entire prequel trilogy (main saga films, not spinoffs). Even Han Solo was a smuggler for longer than Ben was Kylo Ren. Kylo isn't even a fully formed concept, the way Vader was a fully realized villain, that's the underlying concept of the character in every piece of media he's been in. There really isn't as much money potential in Kylo as there is in his dad, let alone his grandad, who is one of the most recognizable icons in fiction. Kylo is big, but he's not Vader levels of cultural impact.

No singular person, not even a director or KK, should have the level of centrality we're giving JP. I've seen people discount auteur theory because it contradicts the reality that filmmaking is collaborative, it's not the responsibility or achievement of any one individual. But the entire discussion for days, actually a couple months at this point, is this one leaker. No one and nothing else exists but him. Am I insane for thinking this mindset is mildly concerning and a bit tunnel-vision?

There was a really glaring yin-yang in the trailer. Guess they're gonna balance the force by killing the yang.

@californiagirl

Let's hope so because I think when Lucas compared his concept of the force to yin and yang, and said "they both need to be there", he was fully aware that the ancient Chinese philosophy never tried to destroy the yang, they always valued the balance of both sides to the point that the Taoist worshippers balanced the yin yang within themselves by building a connection through having sex and called it 男女双修 (Couple-Practice Tantra). It was so famous and well known to the point that even the bible of Tibetan mentions that the ancient Tibetan Buddhist gurus practiced that tantra and found balance through *rgasm.  

I never understand why the SW fandom has come to the exact opposite idea of what Lucas thought and has demanded that the dark side should be eliminated since 2005. Do people seriously need Lucas to come back and yell out in the most impolite way that the dark side and the light side find balance by f*cking each other, not killing each other? Sadly, the leaks give the impression that KK just wants to cater to fans' belief, not Lucas' ideal.

Gemini wrote:@Sangharen
I guess we will agree to disagree. I think saving the missing puzzle piece until the very end is quite standard in film. Theres only IMO one reason why they have not revealed it, it's because who she is is the most important thing that fits the saga together. It always has been. Had they revealed it too soon. It would give the ending away. That's why I've always  said they removed the answer from TFA vision sequence in the teaser trailer because it answers everything. Now this saber appears to be brought to Rey by Kylo in Part 9.
I will never agree that "you're nothing, you're no one" was a beautiful moment, its very negative and regressive for Rey. Its emotional manipulation from the bad guy with evil plans to squash her light and make her depend on him. Rian Johnson even said he deliberately made her feel like she had nothing and no one so she would lean on him, Rian Johnson also said he was telling a half truth to her in that moment.
Kylo is emotionally manipulating  her in TLJ. It's not healthy. It's not equality,  It's not beautiful. LF even confirmed recently that the relationship was part emotional manipulation.  How is that in any way empowering to a person?
I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish Reys importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.
He is not a 100% good guy yet. That's also being saved for the end and it is tying in with the key he brings her it seems.

@Gemini

Gemini wrote:

Saracene wrote:

Gemini wrote:I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish rays importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.

@Gemini
According to the director, it was also a lot more complicated than just manipulation:

@Saracene
He is calling it unhealthy and manipulative . That's not powerful for rey or him.
Thank you for that quote, it proves my point.
Its selfish, unhealthy love. I never said it wasnt love. He thinks it's pure because he is not redeemed yet, hes selfish, that's what the dark side does. Confirmed by GLHealthy love is where you dont try to squash the other person to make them depend on you. By telling them they are nothing and making them think all the person had is them in the world.
Its textbook emotionall manipulation.
Kylo is not the good guy in TLJ. He is still on the dark side.

@Gemini

Yes Gem, you are correct, it is  TEXTBOOK emotional manipulation. People are welcome to a diversity of opinions on Kylo's ultimate motivation or whether he already loves Rey... I know there are many here who are Kylo/Ben fan's first, and are feel very comfortable on a reylo (couples shipping forum saying that)  and that is fine to each his own.

But I am a woman first, a mother of daughters first, a feminist first. and a Rey is the protagonist fan first... Kylo exists to serve REY'S STORY!I don't buy into nor do I agree with RJ elevating Kylo as a dual protagonist, it is one of my issues with TLJ, Rey's story  got thrown under the bus for the duel Skywalkers boxes of man pain. Ugh!

Now back to the simple fact that the throne room was emotional manipulation. As a woman who as experienced such emotional abuse I know it when I see it! But, let's consult an expert!


3 Narcissistic Traits in Kylo Ren
Are we exploring enough of the darker side of "Star Wars: The Last Jedi"?
Posted Dec 19, 2017

Following the much-anticipated premiere of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi”, it's almost impossible to not make a psychological commentary. The element of the dark side and the teachings of Jedi masters have long been explored, yet there's something very fascinating about analyzing complex characters on their own. In this case, Kylo Ren.

In "Star Wars: The Force Awakens,¨ we have only begun to know Kylo Ren as the evil character who wishes to continue Darth Vader's mission to eliminate all Jedis. However, it is not until The Last Jedi, that we are able to truly dig deeper into his psyche. Yet, the more we know, the more questions we have about him.

What makes him tick? What's his underlying need? Where does this thirst for power come from? What are his aspirations and fears? In a literal and metaphorical way – who is the man behind the mask? Who is Ben Solo and what gave him that final push into the dark side?

This character has so many layers to him, that one – similar to Rey – is left doubting and hoping. And – to me anyway – the movie doesn't really put an end to this doubting. If anything, it leaves an open door to even further wondering and hypothesizing. Will he eventually turn good? Or, is it all an act? And, if so, I can't help but think that his pathology is much more severe than the one this article aims to explain.

Regardless of all of this, the deeper I dove into the movie, the more I thought about how much Kylo Ren reminded me of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). And, rather than the complete diagnosis, there were small parts of the movie that reminded me of key traits of this disorder.

Empathy is deficient and dysfunctional

Those who exhibit traits of NPD are people who "believe they are superior or special, and often try to associate with other people they believe are unique or gifted in some way." One of the most characteristic traits in this disorder is their apparent lack of empathy, often portrayed as an inability to connect on a deep, emotional level with other people.

Pincus & Lukowitsky (2010) have distinguished between two types of narcissism: the arrogant narcissism and psychopathic narcissism. According to them, "the psychopathic narcissist copes with self-esteem dysregulation by engaging in antisocial behaviors to protect or enhance their inflated self-image. Such individuals will commit violent criminal acts in order to gain admiration from others, display extreme rage reactions to criticism, and are interpersonally sadistic without experiencing remorse or empathy. "
[/b]
Baskin-Sommers, Krusemark & Ronningstam (2014) have taken this understanding of empathy to a clinical level. Their empathy-based findings suggest "moving away from an all or nothing belief that those with NPD simply lack empathy." When we begin to understand the concept of empathy as a multidimensional element, we can begin to work on it. In Kylo Ren's case, we can see that his understanding and portrayal of empathy is as multilayered as he is, and I think the future expanding of the Star Wars universe will unravel more about the development of Kylo Ren's empathy.

Manipulation as a form of communication

Another important trait of NPD's is their need to manipulate others to achieve what they want. The way their manipulation works varies. In Kylo Ren's case, the part in which he tries to lure Rey into abandoning the rebels and "ruling" together, is a great example of his intent to manipulate.

It's not all that clear the reason as to why he wants to run away with Rey. It might be him trying to ease his inner conflict or wanting to eliminate Rey as a potential competition – which we know that people with narcissistic traits do not enjoy having. But, what is clear, is the way he uses power dynamics to manipulate her into doing so.

He needs to put her down, make her feel insecure and unworthy in order for him to feel a bit more powerful. In order for him to feel in control of the situation. He tries to manipulate her with her past, her neglecting parents (or an assumption that they were neglecting), and use this as leverage into making her feel smaller.

This is something characteristically narcissistic. It's important to understand that beyond their need to portray themselves as superior, they need to feel as they truly are above everyone else. Particularly because there's an underlying strong feeling of insecurity that they must abolish at all costs. And they try to diminish this feeling through their relationships with other people.

Need for power

Research has shown how people who exhibit narcissistic traits are often drawn to positions of power. More importantly, the general public who follow their leadership, respond well to leaders with certain traits.

The death of Snoke might be the most plot-twisting moment in the entire movie. But, what's even more interesting and complex is the reason behind this. Is it to get on Rey's good side? And if so, was that a tactic as well to get her to trust him and eventually submit herself to him? Or was it a "cut the snake by the head" type of moment? A need to eliminate the highest power, so that he could become the highest ranking power?

While we might not have answers to this question, we know that Kylo Ren exhibits a strong need for power. The genesis of where this comes from is a question on its own, as we don't know much about his upbringing. But, we do know that he has a rather complicated past – one which we learn about a little bit more in every movie and allows us to hypothesize about what shaped him to become the person he is.

The interesting aspect of his character is that we are torn. We don't know yet if we like him or not. And the reason this happens is that we keep learning about him and his inner workings. It's more helpful to understand narcissism – and many other psychological traits – as a continuum, rather than a "diagnostic sentence." When we are open to knowing more about each individual's background, we can begin to comprehend why they behave the way they do. More importantly, what makes people more "force-sensitive," and others more vulnerable to join "the dark side."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-gen-y-psy/201712/3-narcissistic-traits-in-kylo-ren



I hope we never try to wipe away Kylo's sins... He can handle redemption, he can handle the sacrifice... he is ultimately made of stronger stuff... these issues that he has his HIS hero's journey.... I am here for it! I want his redemption and I want to see him restored whole... he may on the way have to acknowledge that the woman he loves is EQUAL to him in all aspects, and he should come to love that!

Gemini wrote:

Saracene wrote:

Gemini wrote:I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish rays importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.

@Gemini

According to the director, it was also a lot more complicated than just manipulation:

@Saracene

He is calling it unhealthy and manipulative . That's not powerful for rey or him.

Thank you for that quote, it proves my point.


Its selfish, unhealthy love. I never said it wasnt love. He thinks it's pure because he is not redeemed yet, hes selfish, that's what the dark side does. Confirmed by GL

Healthy love is where you dont try to squash the other person to make them depend on you. By telling them they are nothing and making them think all the person has is them in the world. It's like spike and buffy, until he redeemed himself, they are now together in the comics in a healthy place.

Its textbook emotionall manipulation what kylo did. Albeit, he doesnt realise this in that moment. To him, in his current, corrupted state of mind he is spilling his heart out in an honest way, however because its selfish dark side love, it's not healthy.

Kylo is not the good guy in TLJ. He is still on the dark side.

@Gemini

It was mainly to say that, according to Rian, Kylo wasn't manipulating Rey to suit his dark side plans, as you've said (which to me sounds like describing a deliberate strategic move).

I'm sorry but I'll never be able to see Kylo as a 'bad guy'. He's certainly done some pretty unpleasant things, but he is far too complicated to simply be labelled as a'bad guy'.
Hux, responsible for the mass slaughter of Hosnia, is a bad guy. Snoke was a bad guy. Palpatine is the baddest of bad guys.
Kylo Ren is a psychological mess who honestly has no idea how to convince the woman he loves to stay with him, so he tries to persuade her that she has no one but him, when it's actually the opposite. Rey has friends, Kylo's supposed allies hate his guts, and I suspect even those who respect him think he's a freak.
Kylo is a victim. Of his parents' and uncle's failures, of Snoke's manipulation, and his own screwed up psyche. He wants power because he doesn't want to be a victim anymore, but even that makes him more lonely, rather than less.

perhaps Palpy manipulates Rey into stabbing Kylo and she finally gives in. And that also is when Rey finally understands the grey area Kylo was when he killed Han.

That would be pretty good.
If there's one thing I hope they do it's to return Rey to the well meaning grey character she was in TFA.
And please.....show the Resistance as grey as well. I've got this odd feeling that Rey will see another side to them regarding their treatment of Hux - genuinely curious why he ends up being captured.
Hux however, DOES deserve a kick up the a**!

Saracene wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Saracene wrote:

Gemini wrote:I understand people interpret things how they want, I mean, I do the same but when the actual director says something about a situation, I believe it. It was not powerful. It was kylo trying to diminish rays importance and place in the saga to fit into his dark side plans.

@Gemini

According to the director, it was also a lot more complicated than just manipulation:

@Saracene

He is calling it unhealthy and manipulative . That's not powerful for rey or him.

Thank you for that quote, it proves my point.


Its selfish, unhealthy love. I never said it wasnt love. He thinks it's pure because he is not redeemed yet, hes selfish, that's what the dark side does. Confirmed by GL

Healthy love is where you dont try to squash the other person to make them depend on you. By telling them they are nothing and making them think all the person has is them in the world. It's like spike and buffy, until he redeemed himself, they are now together in the comics in a healthy place.

Its textbook emotionall manipulation what kylo did. Albeit, he doesnt realise this in that moment. To him, in his current, corrupted state of mind  he is spilling his heart out in an honest way, however because its selfish dark side love, it's not healthy.

Kylo is not the good guy in TLJ. He is still on the dark side.

@Gemini

It was mainly to say that, according to Rian, Kylo wasn't manipulating Rey to suit his dark side plans, as you've said (which to me sounds like describing a deliberate strategic move).

@Saracene

He says in another post that he was using it on purpose to make her lean on him.

I apologise if I came across as disliking kylo, it's not the case. I like onscreen couples where opposites attract and the dude is dark and fixes himself eventually. Spuffy was my no1 fave. But it was unhealthy at one point. Now they are together, properly and healthy (yay!). It's always more interesting to see it unfold that way on screen. What I feel with TLJ is that kylo is not quite there yet. So that statement he made was not peak reylo, to me. Peak reylo is when he returns with his blue saber... I cant freaking wait! Seriously. It's like the moment Spike got his

Spoiler:

Wonder what would have happened if Rey had said: "Me or the First Order?"

motherofpearl1 wrote:Wonder what would have happened if Rey had said: "Me or the First Order?"

@motherofpearl1

That is what she should have said.. but Kylo is all up in his EGO right now.... body language... he looked at the throne " now empty" and decided Throne first, and Rey come on you can be my ride or die...


Kylo must surrender his ego and grand plans for love... this is Campbell's self annihilation

The final poster is Kylo surrendering.. so it is really a romantic poster

Dar-ren19 wrote:

nickandnora wrote:

Saracene wrote:I think the best way to look at the leaks is that any information that has to do purely with dialogue is extremely dubious, while the information about locations and what the characters *do* is more likely to be correct. So while something like “Rey and Kylo have a fight in location X” can be legit, anything that the characters actually say to each other during the scene (like Kylo’s ridiculous Rey’s background info dump) is suspect.

@Saracene
Yes. In fact someone just asked JP yesterday if he knew any actual dialogue and he said very, very little (read: he doesn't actually know any). In addition, someone recently asked him to clarify if the line that Rey says when she stabs him (something like "I will never be like you/fall to the dark side like you!") is an actual known line, and he admitted it was not. So that's really important for everyone to know.

@nickandnora

So JP is making up actual dialogue? I'm asking because I don't follow leaks in general, but this thread has gone south in a major way to the extent that I think it should be moved to Maz's Castle. Imagine if JP reads this thread the god complex the guy would get! Ugh.

@Dar-ren19

I wouldn't necessarily say he's "making it up." It's possible that his source is (or thinks he is) paraphrasing things said in the movie and passing those summaries off to JP and that's why he's saying he knows very little actual dialogue. I personally have my doubts as to the accuracy of the dialogue as summarized (or in some cases, probably guessed by the source) as it is though.

ETA: Personally, rant from last week aside, I think everyone should stop following JP from this point forward and just look at what Jason is saying. They clearly have one of the same sources, but at least Jason will admit when he's not sure or when there could be more. I wouldn't give JP another look upon further updates, but that's just me.

But I agree, I think we need to get back on track here. I think once everyone sees where the errors likely are in the leak translation, and the scenes that are probably missing (especially in Act III) we can see the good film that's probably actually here. Leave it to a bro with a god-complex to screw it up so badly, lol. I like what we're doing with trying to piece the REAL film together with the events that we have (even assuming the leaks are mostly "correct" event-wise). I actually feel like I'm starting to see it.

@Lily Snape

That’s an interesting thought— like maybe they’re battling each other and either Rey or both feels angry and betrayed, and it’s heated on her end at least, and she acts before she thinks when they both feel the loss of Leia...he’s off his guard, so she stabs him without really having wanted to...and something like the Pensieve in Harry Potter or the Force visions in TFA occurs.  Maybe she sees and hears the Dark voice penetrating the mind of a little boy, or sees the Jedi Academy classmates coming after him to kill him, or him begging his parents not to leave him with Luke because he just wants to stay home with them, or something like him trying to make it all stop.  And then she heals him and feels terrible and runs away.

Yes exactly!! But since there are two significant occurrences here (the stabbing and the healing), I think with one she sees visions of him and with the other she sees visions of *herself*. At least that's what I think would make sense. I suspect this moment is really a turning point/climax in the film for both Rey and the audience.

Actually that epic line ("People keep saying..." "But I do") is in the leaks, it's just presented in different, worst way. It says that Kylo tells her that nobody can understand her except him. It happens during their first meeting, when he snatches her necklace. Imagine if this is just first meeting, what kind of dialogues will be further.