Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Anthony Daniels has bee giving a number of interviews lately, partly for his book. Saw some people on Twitter getting upset over things he says here. Kind of mixed messaging, he again says that the people claiming they're boycotting SW don't really mean it, and what he knows about TROS is very good, also he he has a major arc. But he's sort of complaining that he has no purpose, and the movies aren't about him (when were they ever?), and Mark didn't have much to do in the ST (even though TLJ was kind of heavily about him)? A bit confusing. Some of OT actors are getting sorta grouchy, who knew Harrison would be the one coming out of this looking the best.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1199288/Star-Wars-9-Rise-Skywalker-C3PO-Anthony-Daniels-backlash-fans-film-release-date

Night Huntress wrote:someone (on youtube or a podcast? I don't remember- sorry) explained that the JP & JW leaks are likely coming from a source that works for the company cutting footage for the trailer (LF don't do this kind of things themselves apparently).

That would explain why the leaks appeared shortly before the trailer, and why the leaker saw a lot of footage but missing the context and links between the scenes. It would also explain why some scenes in those leaks are explained in detail while some are missing completely.

IMO the trailer won't confirm all the leaks are true- but that the leaker saw footage for the trailer

@Night Huntress

I'm not entirely sure I believe this as I had been labouring under the assumption that the source was in sound/scoring (for awhile I considered it might be some disgruntled member of the orchestra), but the trailer thing makes a bit of sense because I strongly get the inside impression that the trailer was cut somewhat differently originally (think about what Jason said versus what the final product actually was). I'm also getting the vague sense that the trailer was supposed to be released a week earlier... so.... a possible explanation is that they took the trailer away from whoever was doing it because of the leak and redid it somewhere else.

Again, not SURE I believe it, but it would make sense in the scenario i just described.

@Teo oswald
Yeah, I agree, JP/JW's sources were probably working in the editing room, the source(s) could be from the CGI team, trailer/tv spot team, etc... (since JW has multi-sources), that's why they could give JW some post-production footage of TROS. But there are parts that don't need CGI, so leakers can't get access to every stuff.  

@Gemini
Oh god, it's not just that. In order to make a new saber, Rey even sabotages Luke's saber and Leia's. The symbolism is pretty clear. The idea is they want to destroy everything that is associated with the old legacy, from objects to characters, and Rey "Skywalker" builds her new dynasty on the ashes and remnants of the old Skywalker! Kriffing epic! I sincerely doubt that fanboys and JP/JW/BB could imagine a horrendous scenario like that themselves, they want Luke to have a child of his own so his and the Skywalker lineage could continue. They don't want to see the old Skywalker of Lucas vanish.

Besides, I think we should acknowledge the elephant in the room that the problem isn't about the amount of missing context in the leaks, it's about the truth that some of us can't accept that JJ is just simply not the type of writer we wish he could be, JJ isn't one of those who could create groundbreaking and mindblowing stuff, not to mention that other Reylo fellows have already pointed out that  JJ did come up with absurd and weird choices that he thought were "fun" and logical in his previous works. When you pare every plot point of the leaks down to the bone, everything sounds sh*tty and stupid, but it can get better when we have more side information to piece it together, hopefully.

californiagirl wrote:Anthony Daniels has bee giving a number of interviews lately, partly for his book. Saw some people on Twitter getting upset over things he says here. Kind of mixed messaging, he again says that the people claiming they're boycotting SW don't really mean it, and what he knows about TROS is very good, also he he has a major arc. But he's sort of complaining that he has no purpose, and the movies aren't about him (when were they ever?), and Mark didn't have much to do in the ST (even though TLJ was kind of heavily about him)? A bit confusing. Some of OT actors are getting sorta grouchy, who knew Harrison would be the one coming out of this looking the best.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1199288/Star-Wars-9-Rise-Skywalker-C3PO-Anthony-Daniels-backlash-fans-film-release-date

@californiagirl

Anthony Daniels is, er, interesting. I saw his one man show almost a decade ago, and he took jabs at Harrison, I believe Lucas as well, and said some snarky things about the films that didn’t come across as a joke and left a poor taste in my mouth and in that of the people I was there with. I do remember him sharing fun OT era Carrie anecdotes, and he seemed to genuinely like her. When he gets in to personal commentary or opinions, he can tend to upset people, but factual things he talks about can be interesting (and for as yet unreleased movies, helpful).

I wonder if there really is some sort of KoR chase on Kijimi or just a series of near misses with them. Hmm.

@nickandnora

yeah, of course I'm not sure either. I'm very clueless about how these kind of things work in the film industry - but I was wondering how and why those leaks appeared. It was clear the source really saw footage, but (for me at least) it was also clear he/she haven't seen the whole movie. Too many details were missing and the story didn't make any sense.
Also, someone who is working for a separate company cutting advertisements and trailers is more likely to risk leaking stuff than someone working directly for LF...but that's just my personal opinion.

JP forgot his own leaks, and this is hilarious. In the leaks KOR tracked down Resistance to Kijimi which is fitting to AD's descriptions. AD didn't say that there is a literal chase scene by KOR, but only that the Resistance is running and aware that KOR could have tracked them. Hm, seems JP "wrote" his leaks definitely just by copying what the source said, like he can't even remember what he "wrote".

@OrionStars

She ruins the sabers and makes her own right? I mean I can see that there is symbolism of her walking with the twins sabers on Tatooine, however the twin sun never meant Leia IMO. Its always been associated with Luke and Obi Wan. D23 saber also shows this. I hope JJ isn't going down the RJ path with: "destroy the past". I will cry


On another note in an attempt to try and discredit the leaks clarity:

I still have a sneaky suspicion that there is a muddle up here. Reason being the KoR and kylo scenes are very well kept hidden and that is where a key plot point occurs

I actually wonder if she combines Lukes and Leia's saber when fixing Lukes. Putting both crystals in it.

Reason being, according to the leaks: The Death Star is supposed to hold the key to defeating Palpatine. We now know from the leaked image that the second saber is actually that very Key (Wayfinder) that destroys Palpatine. Its not a compass that defeats him, its the second blue saber. This indicates that wayfinders are most probably Jedi/Sith artifacts that reveal things. It's the crossing of these two blue sabers that casts the final blow.

The Key to defeating him cant be Leia's saber because hers is in a hut in Ach To according to these leaks. Leia's saber is not located on the Death Star. The Leaks also have said that Leia gives her saber to Rey at the start? However, we do not see said saber on her AT ALL. Unless it is combined with Lukes somehow?

I think Kylo has the second blue saber..hence the "Kylo holds the key" statement from LF recently. It explains why Rey is smashing Vader's podium in Kylos room and looking in there. She's trying to find this second saber (wayfinder) amongst Vader's possessions. She wont find it. Kylo is the one who needs to give it to her at the very end. Which we in fact know he does confirmed by the image of him holding it.

We also know that Rey fails to find this "wayfinder" on the DS. Kylo has that sith in his possession. Hiding it from Rey because currently it goes against his dark plans for her to know what the wayfinder is and how to use it and what it may reveal about her true place in the saga.

What would be rumored to be on the DS and in vader's belongings?

Where are the KoR when Kylo picks up that (later) hidden saber in TFA?

I'd say Mustafar because there is a HUGE castle in the background which is probably Vader's castle.

Kylo found that saber with the KoR. Saw masked desert rat Rey (WHAT GIRL) has suspected Rey is the girl linked with that legendary saber but wont tell her until the very, very end when he is redeemed and brings her the rightful saber.

OrionStars wrote:@Teo oswald
Yeah, I agree, JP/JW's sources were probably working in the editing room, the source(s) could be from the CGI team, trailer/tv spot team, etc... (since JW has multi-sources), that's why they could give JW some post-production footage of TROS. But there are parts that don't need CGI, so leakers can't get access to every stuff.  

@Gemini
Oh god, it's not just that. In order to make a new saber, Rey even sabotages Luke's saber and Leia's. The symbolism is pretty clear. The idea is they want to destroy everything that is associated with the old legacy, from objects to characters, and Rey "Skywalker" builds her new dynasty on the ashes and remnants of the old Skywalker! Kriffing epic! I sincerely doubt that fanboys and JP/JW/BB could imagine a horrendous scenario like that themselves, they want Luke to have a child of his own so his and the Skywalker lineage could continue. They don't want to see the old Skywalker of Lucas vanish.

Besides, I think we should acknowledge the elephant in the room that the problem isn't about the amount of missing context in the leaks, it's about the truth that some of us can't accept that JJ is just simply not the type of writer we wish he could be, JJ isn't one of those who could create groundbreaking and mindblowing stuff, not to mention that other Reylo fellows have already pointed out that  JJ did come up with absurd and weird choices that he thought were "fun" and logical in his previous works. When you pare every plot point of the leaks down to the bone, everything sounds sh*tty and stupid, but it can get better when we have more side information to piece it together, hopefully.

@OrionStars

I know on this board there are a lot of international reylo fans, and a lot of fans who fully support everything that RJ did in TLJ.. but here in the states, LF and Star Wars need to make a comeback from TLJ.. no matter if you think 1.3 billion is a huge amount that TLJ grossed and no matter that so many continue to RJsplain TLJ. TLJ is a  movie is hugely controversial among the fandom here and left a rift that truly needs to be healed for some to come back on board. And, people here are beginning to see through Hollywoods sly "reboots" and that is not what people want just see the dismal Terminator 3 returns from this past weekend.

JJ has made questionable decisions in the past... never watched Felicity or Lost... but the Kelvin timeline in the Star Trek reboot has proven a disaster, never mind turning Khan Nunien Singh from a sexy passionate Machiavellian villain of color




to a cold Cucumberbatch... UGH... such a travesty will never be lived down..




The point being... we are here where we are at with the ST as a sum total of the dum decisions made by JJ in TFA ( as much as a like that movie) mystery box Rey lineage and mystery past Kylo has underserved the story. RJ's answer for either of those in TLJ either was not answered properly or was not fleshed out to the degree that answered JJ's unanswered questions from TFA to TLJ...

To the point now where we are supposed to get ALL the answers satisfactorily concluded in 1 movie.. LAWD.. help me..

I am one who instinctively don't buy all of the leaks for the 3rd and final act of the movie... I don't buy Dead Ben Solo, Rey Palps, and Rey Palps destroying Luke & Leia's saber on Tatooine and taking the SkyWalker name and walking of in the twin sunset..

If this is the ending.. if anyone of these three things is really true... LF will have a PR disaster on their hands bigger than,  TLJ backlash.. which they chose not to address, bigger than the PR disaster of the multiple firings of multiple directors..

“Who is your favorite villain?” ; Actor John Cho (Lt Sulu) answers.

I want to add different perspective to this "some dumb employee from trailer\ad productions created leaks" rhetoric because people who started it and are pushing it either don't know how Disney marketing works or are omitting some critical details. Final trailers for special properties like Star Wars or Avengers are not fully created by outsource teams where some kind of marketing\production person, not bonded by contract, can watch all sent footage or make a photo of money shot. While I can easily believe that Disney is sending SOME footage for production marketing companies for creating TV spots, international trailers (this is one of the main reasons why big US studios have to use such companies) and additional marketing materials, I will never believe that they sent so much footage so early and someone had access to ALL footage included in FINAL trailer and isn't afraid to leak it. The only one possible explanation is that some big person FROM STUDIO was fired in that way that he\she feels free to leak whatever they want.

Josh Dunn and Brent Rockswold were main co-editors for TFA's final trailer. Josh Dunn is still working on Disney marketing team. As far I know, Brent was working on Disney during TLJ (and was also responsible for creating TLJ's teaser and TV-spots https://www.brent rockswold.com/space-to-sweat-body-politic) and then left the company (I don't know it for sure).

Josh Dunn was also credited as an editior for Avengers' trailers and TV-spots and you can see below that Disney has In-House Editing Company responsible for marketing big materials as teasers\trailers. This is nomination for Audio/Visual Mixed Campaign so they obligated to credit everybody who was seriously involved in creating final video products. You can see here also Ted Tobin (also worked on TFA's trailer) from Hive Graphics, they are separate company but still work under Disney (this is 100%).




https://clios.com/entertainment/winner/theatrical-audio-visual-mixed-campaign/avengers-infinity-war/avengers-infinity-war-campaign-46337

As you can see from Brent's portfolio, editors who worked on TFA's, TLJ's and RO's teasers and trailers are from In-House team. That doesn't mean that people from outside didn't get involved (Ursine Vulpine was, for example  http://main. ursinevulpine.com/trailers) but when Abrams and Howards say that they cut final trailer in last week - they are not lying; they don't have a reason to lie. Some work on separate parts of production was previously outsorced but no intern from some casual outsource marketing team will get access to all dailies or will know how final trailer will look 4 months before trailer's premiere. This is Star Wars and it's special. Disney is very very well-sourced rich company who is buying small marketing\production companies all the time because they can afford not to DEPEND on some outsource productions when it comes to their most valuable properties. There should be force majoire to make it leak so much from just marketing production.

I checked all major companies I know who usually work with big studios on this stuff and didn't find there mention of co-editing the teaser\trailer. Trailer Park, for example, created a teaser poster and this company is one of the most popular companies for creating actually trailers. (https://www.trailer park.com/work/project/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-keyart) I wouldn't be surpised if they are working on international trailer and it's possible that the beginning with Kylo (JW's leak) was from international trailer as they create not-US content based on popularity's stats. But at least JW got this information just recently and it was just mentions of few major shots (not full footage).

For example, Mark Woollen's company is responsible for creating trailers for Driver's Marriage Story, Dead Don't Die and BlacKkKlansman. This company works a lot with marketing for films who will be hunting for award campaigns and there are no work with big Disney projects. LA Linderman&Associates was working on US print marketing Report, Knives Out but only on international and minor print for Infinity War so character posters can come from them. But no major company features work on final trailers or even TV spots for Star Wars. If someone knows such company, I will be glad to be wrong. And even if there is a collaboration, nobody from Star Wars is sending hours of dailies for some separate company to make cuts for TV spots 6 months before release.

This is how TrailerPark describes collaboration on Home Entartainment Spots and Trailer with Marvel (Captain America and Doctor Strange) and print for other smaller Marvel properties:

Brubaker: Like when it comes to high security movies, like Marvel movies, it's part of the creative directive of what we can show and what we can't show. With movies like "The Avengers" and other Marvel campaigns, there might be three or four trailer campaigns.

N: And the whole process is on lockdown to prevent leaks.

Brubaker: It's like Fort Knox. There's cameras everywhere. There's like, you can't have internet at your workstation for edit days. Everything is a fireable offense, and the MPA has put in effect a very strict policy of how we handle materials.

EDIT: I just found confirmation that that TROS trailer was created by Disney In-House.

@special_cases

Thank you for your information and perspective.

special_cases wrote:I want to add different perspective to this "some dumb employee from trailer\ad productions created leaks" rhetoric because people who started it and are pushing it either don't know how Disney marketing works or are omitting some critical details. Final trailers for special properties like Star Wars or Avengers are not fully created by outsorce teams where some kind of marketing\production person, not bonded by contract, can watch all sent footage or make a photo of money shot. While I can easily believe that Disney are sending SOME footage for production marketing companies for creating TV spots, international trailers (this is one of the main reasons why big US studios have to use such companies) and additional marketing materials, I will never believe that they sent so much footage so early and someone had access to ALL footage included in FINAL trailer and isn't afraid to leak it. The only one possible explanation is that some big person FROM STUDIO was fired in that way that he\she feels free to leak whatever they want.

Josh Dunn and Brent Rockswold were main co-editors for TFA's final trailer. Josh Dunn is still working on Disney marketing team. As far I know, Brent was working on Disney during TLJ (and was also responsible for creating TLJ's teaser and TV-spots https://www.brentrockswold.com/ space-to-sweat-body-politic) and then left the company (I don't know it for sure).

Josh Dunn was also credited as an editior for Avengers' trailers and TV-spots and you can see below that Disney has In-House Editing Company responsible for marketing big materials as teasers\trailers. This is nomination for Audio/Visual Mixed Campaign so they obligated to credit everybody who was seriously involved in creating final video products. You can see here also Ted Tobin (also worked on TFA's trailer) from Hive Graphics, they are separate company but still work under Disney (this is 100%).




https://clios.com/entertainment/winner/theatrical-audio-visual-mixed-campaign/avengers-infinity-war/avengers-infinity-war-campaign-46337

As you can see from Brent's portfolio, editors who worked on TFA's, TLJ's and RO's teasers and trailers are from In-House team. That doesn't mean that people from outside didn't get involved (Ursine Vulpine was, for example  http://main.ursinevulpine.com/trailers) but when Abrams and Howards say that they cut final trailer in last week - they are not lying; they don't have a reason to lie. Some work on separate parts of production was previously outsorced but no intern from some casual outsource marketing team will get access to all dailies or will know how final trailer will look 4 months before trailer's premiere. This is Star Wars and it's special. Disney is very very well-sourced rich company who is buying small marketing\production companies all the time because they can afford not to DEPEND on some outsource productions when it comes to their most valuable properties. There should be force majoire to make it leak so much from just marketing production.

I checked all major companies I know who usually work with big studios on this stuff and didn't find there mention of co-editing the teaser\trailer. Trailer Park, for example, created a teaser poster and this company is one of the most popular companies for creating actually trailers. (https://www.trailerpark.com/work/project/ star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-keyart) I wouldn't be surpised if they are working on international trailer and it's possible that the beginning with Kylo (JW's leak) was from international trailer as they create not-US content based on popularity's stats. But at least JW got this information just recently and it was just mentions of few major shots (not full footage).

For example, Mark Woollen's company is responsible for creating trailers for Driver's Marriage Story, Dead Don't Die and BlacKkKlansman. This company works a lot with marketing for films who will be hunting for award campaigns and there are no work with big Disney projects. LA Linderman&Associates was working on US print marketing Report, Knives Out but only on international and minor print for Infinity War so character posters can come from them. But no major company features work on final trailers or even TV spots for Star Wars. If someone knows such company, I will be glad to be wrong. And even if there is a collaboration, nobody from Star Wars is sending hours of dailies for some separate company to make cuts for TV spots 6 months before release.

This is how TrailerPark describes collaboration on Home Entartainment Spots and Trailer with Marvel (Captain America and Doctor Strange) and print for other smaller Marvel properties:

Brubaker: Like when it comes to high security movies, like Marvel movies, it's part of the creative directive of what we can show and what we can't show. With movies like "The Avengers" and other Marvel campaigns, there might be three or four trailer campaigns.

N: And the whole process is on lockdown to prevent leaks.

Brubaker: It's like Fort Knox. There's cameras everywhere. There's like, you can't have internet at your workstation for edit days. Everything is a fireable offense, and the MPA has put in effect a very strict policy of how we handle materials.

@special_cases

After reading your comment and this detailed information, I'm curious about how people get these leaks. Looks insanely difficult. And to think that someone would risk his job for some - very short and inconsistent - Internet fame is incredible. I mean, someone leaked TFA script!

Atenais wrote:

special_cases wrote:I want to add different perspective to this "some dumb employee from trailer\ad productions created leaks" rhetoric because people who started it and are pushing it either don't know how Disney marketing works or are omitting some critical details. Final trailers for special properties like Star Wars or Avengers are not fully created by outsorce teams where some kind of marketing\production person, not bonded by contract, can watch all sent footage or make a photo of money shot. While I can easily believe that Disney are sending SOME footage for production marketing companies for creating TV spots, international trailers (this is one of the main reasons why big US studios have to use such companies) and additional marketing materials, I will never believe that they sent so much footage so early and someone had access to ALL footage included in FINAL trailer and isn't afraid to leak it. The only one possible explanation is that some big person FROM STUDIO was fired in that way that he\she feels free to leak whatever they want.

Josh Dunn and Brent Rockswold were main co-editors for TFA's final trailer. Josh Dunn is still working on Disney marketing team. As far I know, Brent was working on Disney during TLJ (and was also responsible for creating TLJ's teaser and TV-spots https://www.brentrockswold.com/ space-to-sweat-body-politic) and then left the company (I don't know it for sure).

Josh Dunn was also credited as an editior for Avengers' trailers and TV-spots and you can see below that Disney has In-House Editing Company responsible for marketing big materials as teasers\trailers. This is nomination for Audio/Visual Mixed Campaign so they obligated to credit everybody who was seriously involved in creating final video products. You can see here also Ted Tobin (also worked on TFA's trailer) from Hive Graphics, they are separate company but still work under Disney (this is 100%).




https://clios.com/entertainment/winner/theatrical-audio-visual-mixed-campaign/avengers-infinity-war/avengers-infinity-war-campaign-46337

As you can see from Brent's portfolio, editors who worked on TFA's, TLJ's and RO's teasers and trailers are from In-House team. That doesn't mean that people from outside didn't get involved (Ursine Vulpine was, for example  http://main.ursinevulpine.com/trailers) but when Abrams and Howards say that they cut final trailer in last week - they are not lying; they don't have a reason to lie. Some work on separate parts of production was previously outsorced but no intern from some casual outsource marketing team will get access to all dailies or will know how final trailer will look 4 months before trailer's premiere. This is Star Wars and it's special. Disney is very very well-sourced rich company who is buying small marketing\production companies all the time because they can afford not to DEPEND on some outsource productions when it comes to their most valuable properties. There should be force majoire to make it leak so much from just marketing production.

I checked all major companies I know who usually work with big studios on this stuff and didn't find there mention of co-editing the teaser\trailer. Trailer Park, for example, created a teaser poster and this company is one of the most popular companies for creating actually trailers. (https://www.trailerpark.com/work/project/ star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-keyart) I wouldn't be surpised if they are working on international trailer and it's possible that the beginning with Kylo (JW's leak) was from international trailer as they create not-US content based on popularity's stats. But at least JW got this information just recently and it was just mentions of few major shots (not full footage).

For example, Mark Woollen's company is responsible for creating trailers for Driver's Marriage Story, Dead Don't Die and BlacKkKlansman. This company works a lot with marketing for films who will be hunting for award campaigns and there are no work with big Disney projects. LA Linderman&Associates was working on US print marketing Report, Knives Out but only on international and minor print for Infinity War so character posters can come from them. But no major company features work on final trailers or even TV spots for Star Wars. If someone knows such company, I will be glad to be wrong. And even if there is a collaboration, nobody from Star Wars is sending hours of dailies for some separate company to make cuts for TV spots 6 months before release.

This is how TrailerPark describes collaboration on Home Entartainment Spots and Trailer with Marvel (Captain America and Doctor Strange) and print for other smaller Marvel properties:

Brubaker: Like when it comes to high security movies, like Marvel movies, it's part of the creative directive of what we can show and what we can't show. With movies like "The Avengers" and other Marvel campaigns, there might be three or four trailer campaigns.

N: And the whole process is on lockdown to prevent leaks.

Brubaker: It's like Fort Knox. There's cameras everywhere. There's like, you can't have internet at your workstation for edit days. Everything is a fireable offense, and the MPA has put in effect a very strict policy of how we handle materials.

@special_cases

After reading your comment and this detailed information, I'm curious about how people get these leaks. Looks insanely difficult. And to think that someone would risk his job for some - very short and inconsistent - Internet fame is incredible. I mean, someone leaked TFA script!

@Atenais

Even if I was fired I would probably be afraid to leak anything LOL.

I'm not sure what Trek proves? Trek has a unique curse where it is very difficult to maintain populatity for an extended length of time. It has it's spurts beyond the Trekkie fanbase, then peters out, and the cycle begins anew. At least critics liked the new films. The last one, which is the one that didn't do well, was the one JJ didn't direct. Oddly, also appears the Trekkie faithful enjoyed that one more than the previous two. Someone was just posting gushy things about the cast yesterday on my timeline. He's said himself, Trek and SW are incredibly different beasts. I find comparisons between them a bit surface level. Like, they're optimistic and in space?

They keep saying they're not out to fix what came before, and they really never stop going off about how it connects all the films. The idea of fully owning the prequels is a bold move, that doesn't sound like people who are basing their story around whatever the most inoffensive, retconning option is.

The leaks are an odd one. Wildly inconsistent, but some things are right, but clearly doesn't have access to the full film, doesn't understand basic things about the characters and even the fans. What to make of them? I'm still mistrustful of all leakers, the batting average is not high.

OrionStars wrote:@Teo oswald
Yeah, I agree, JP/JW's sources were probably working in the editing room, the source(s) could be from the CGI team, trailer/tv spot team, etc... (since JW has multi-sources), that's why they could give JW some post-production footage of TROS. But there are parts that don't need CGI, so leakers can't get access to every stuff.  

@OrionStars


The leaks are unlikely to be coming from the editing room for a few reasons. First of all, editing is a bit like the last stop for the film, and the editors would almost certainly have access to materials that seem to be otherwise absent from the leaks (the holes in Act 3 for instance). Secondly, editing is a smaller, more prestigious department, so would be less likely to leak out of *genuine* fear for their jobs and also because it would be easier to identify who is doing it within that department.


Again, most likely (in my opinion) is it's someone doing shift work for scoring, who thinks they've put together the big picture based on what they have seen/heard, but are probably mistaken in several aspects. The reason I thought "orchestra" is because I imagine a lot of musicians are hired on a freelance basis and don't necessarily work for LF or John Williams or whoever on a permanent basis. Also, they would have repeated access to large chunks of the movie and know what was added/removed, but are still going to be missing A LOT because they obviously have to concentrate on playing, and they're technically (note: TECHNICALLY) not supposed to look at the screen.

Whoever it is very arrogant however, because (since they probably aren't in editing) they are nevertheless speculating on *why* certain bits have been removed, when really I would think only the editing department would in fact know that for certain. In addition, the way the leaks were presented at the outset tells me if this original/main source did not in fact see the third act the the film and only gleaned some things possibly through word of mouth. I believe that it might be a different person entirely (someone common to both JW and JP) who leaked the fight with Palpatine with the detail of Ben being thrown into the pit. I don't know that for sure, but that's what my common sense is telling me. *That* person might be VFX or something else. Not sure.


There is a final possibility that I can't completely discount: the original source actually KNOWS the parts that are missing, and knows they are the important parts (eg. Ben is revealed to be alive) and is having a ton of fun with this erroneous, incomplete account that basically conceals all the potentially interesting developments. Why? I don't know. I can think of many, uncomplicated reasons including "just having some fun." And though this is more conspiracy driven, I can't even *completely* discount that this is misdirection put forth by J.J. (ie. he put someone onto this) if in fact the leaks do omit every interesting twist and motivation that he wants to otherwise have concealed. It's very, VERY unlikely, but considering the director we're talking about, it's *possible.*

californiagirl wrote:I'm not sure what Trek proves? Trek has a unique curse where it is very difficult to maintain populatity for an extended length of time. It has it's spurts beyond the Trekkie fanbase, then peters out, and the cycle begins anew. At least critics liked the new films. The last one, which is the one that didn't do well, was the one JJ didn't direct. Oddly, also appears the Trekkie faithful enjoyed that one more than the previous two. Someone was just posting gushy things about the cast yesterday on my timeline. He's said himself, Trek and SW are incredibly different beasts. I find comparisons between them a bit surface level. Like, they're optimistic and in space?

They keep saying they're not out to fix what came before, and they really never stop going off about how it connects all the films. The idea of fully owning the prequels is a bold move, that doesn't sound like people who are basing their story around whatever the most inoffensive, retconning option is.

The leaks are an odd one. Wildly inconsistent, but some things are right, but clearly doesn't have access to the full film, doesn't understand bssic things about the characters and even the fans. What to make of them? I'm still mistrustful of all leakers, the batting average is not high.

@californiagirl

Star Trek Beyond is a perfect example! Thank you... It was a course correction after JJ's Into the Darknenss/Khan debacle... Beyond is back to Trek basics that JJ seemed to have forgotten. As a fan of both Trek & SW... they are different beasts but not as different as you would think since George himself is a huge trek fan and was inclined to show up at very early Trek conventions..

And mind you I was not comparing Trek to SW.. I was using JJ's haphazard resume with Trek as a warning or preview on the worst case scenarios that may happen to TROS.


Ben dead.... for one..

The documentary Trek Nation features an interview with George Lucas in which the director revealed that he was a fan of Star Trek, used to attend conventions and admired Gene Roddenberry’s ability to create so much despite limitations of budget, time and technology. Roddenberry helped celebrate the 10th anniversary of Star Wars at an event run by Starlog Magazine and Creation Entertainment. The photo of Roddenberry and Lucas shaking hands at that event is pure fanboy/fangirl nirvana.



A favorite conspiracy of mine is that Palpy's look in TPM is based off of the evil angel in disguise from And The Children Shall Lead

I think Kylo is a very different character from Khan. Unless my memory fails me, he wasn't the legacy character or the love interest. There was much less of the franchise riding on him. More of a straightforward villain. Even though the big Trek fans liked Beyond, it wasn't enough to get larger audiences in theatres. SW has always been for the masses, Trek is a different beast, flicking on and off. There were a couple of announced films after that, but neither seems to be making progress. They're pivoting more to TV shows now.

Again I was not making a 1 to 1 comparison to Khan and Kylo... nothing hard to understand about that..

This is about JJ and his predilections for what HE thinks is cool versus what any given audience or fandom thinks is cool.. that's it.

Hey all , spoiler from new Resistance Reborn book :
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/drt0pn/finns_and_roses_romance/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This now means we could get Finn Rey or Finn Poe or everyone is friend zoned ....

Ps/ there’s more in this book as a major major character from bloodline novel joins the resistance. Could this character be played by Matt Smith ? ( hint - he was a good friend of Leia’s in the senate but he betrayed her ( he outed her as Vader’s daughter ) and is few years older than Ben Solo .

All this could change the dynamics for TROS

I feel like the good old stormpilot is back.

AhsokaTano wrote:Hey all , spoiler from new Resistance Reborn book :
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/drt0pn/finns_and_roses_romance/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This now means we could get Finn Rey or Finn Poe or everyone is friend zoned ....

Ps/ there’s more in this book as a major major character from bloodline novel joins the resistance. Could this character be played by Matt Smith ? ( hint - he was a good friend of Leia’s in the senate but he betrayed her ( he outed her as Vader’s daughter ) and is few years older than Ben Solo .

All this could change the dynamics for TROS

@AhsokaTano
I disagree about Finn and Rey. Finn was puzzled by the concept, in my opinion that means it didn't even cross his mind, and then he clearly states that they're just friends.

I was wondering what the discussion of Stormpilot and Finnrose was about today. I really don't think they're doing Stormpilot, and I kind of wish the writers and creators would stop gay baiting. It's not cute at this point, it's just kind of mean. To be fair, I've never seen JJ lean into this narrative.

Yeah, for me this means Finn/Rey continues to be off the table (for obvious reasons in this passage as well as the story itself, as well as John's comments that he can definitely say Finn isn't interested in Rey anymore). It is possible that Finn/Rose develops over the course of the film as something he comes to terms with, but I've been pretty forthright with saying that Finn's story also has some pretty interesting metaphorical markers of being a gay man's coming out story. It's quite possible that Stormpilot is in fact back on the table and that's what John (and actually Daisy) was referring to. It would be very interesting (and I think pretty cool) if both Finn/Poe and also Rey/Kylo started out pretty subtextually and worked there way into being overt. I would be very, very OK with that actually.

(Not that I necessarily think it's likely, but I do at least think it's *possible*.)

The only issue I have with this is that it continues the pattern of erasing Rose. A big part of her arc involved Finn so if she doesn't have that emotional connection with a major character it can mean less emphasis for her character in the film. This combined with her lack of promotion leaves a bad taste in my mouth tbh. As it seems that at this point LF is trying to cater to individuals that hated these aspects of the TLJ and that's just pretty disappointing.

Lovely_Rose wrote:The only issue I have with this is that it continues the pattern of erasing Rose. A big part of her arc involved Finn so if she doesn't have that emotional connection with a major character it can mean less emphasis for her character in the film. This combined with her lack of promotion leaves a bad taste in my mouth tbh. As it seems that at this point LF is trying to cater to individuals that hated these aspects of the TLJ and that's just pretty disappointing.

@Lovely_Rose

TBH, my original thought (which still might hold weight) is that Finn/Rose would be a thing in the final movie while indicating that Poe has feelings for Finn. I just thought (and still think) they might tip their hat to both. This isn't something I'm super confident in like some other story points that I think have to happen, it's just something I've speculated about in my own time.