Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Gemini wrote:..in the new footage she is looking at Vader's sith?

We know she smashes this podium and looks in there in the trailer



What would be in there, Rey? What are you looking for that would be amongst Vader's things?

@Gemini
She is looking at Vader's mask. It's a super intimate scene if you ask me. It's the visual representation of what happens between them in the interrogation as Rey is coming physically face-to-face with the black hole in Ben Solo, and it's just this disfigured relic that he's treating as some symbol of his self-worth. I absolutely love this idea with all my being and I'm thrilled JJ went there. Rey is even sneaking into his private room/mind, and there it is at the center of everything just like it was when she saw it the first time in his head.





The confrontation ends with Rey smashing the stand and Ben running after her. She clearly pauses and doesn't want to look back at him, but the tension even in that tiny clip! Wow!

@FrolickingFizzgig
Yah, I dont know what's going on. What you say sounds pretty good if it that's what it is. I always feel like you explain character motivation very well. Something I tend to not think of much. Im a very visual person.

I'm mainly  basing/guessing she is looking for something in particular based on visual techniques im seeing and the way the camera moves and also piecing it with the other scene and what she seems to be hunting for in the leaks. She seems to smash it, kylo on possible defence to stop it. Once smashed shes looking inside the podium (possibly)

This could add up to what you are saying as well though. I dont know. the techniques used could also be used to emphasise what you are saying in regards to the character motivation. It would fit as the emphasis is on the helmet, slowly panning to Reys reaction to seeing it.

Atenais wrote:

Atenais wrote:

 

Riri wrote:omg

   

Guys, I was away when the news dropped - where’s the new footage from? Colbert?

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Gemini wrote:..in the new footage she is looking at Vader's sith?

We know she smashes this podium and looks in there in the trailer



What would be in there, Rey? What are you looking for that would be amongst Vader's things?

@Gemini
She is looking at Vader's mask. It's a super intimate scene if you ask me. It's the visual representation of what happens between them in the interrogation as Rey is coming physically face-to-face with the black hole in Ben Solo, and it's just this disfigured relic that he's treating as some symbol of his self-worth. I absolutely love this idea with all my being and I'm thrilled JJ went there. Rey is even sneaking into his private room/mind, and there it is at the center of everything just like it was when she saw it the first time in his head.





The confrontation ends with Rey smashing the stand and Ben running after her. She clearly pauses and doesn't want to look back at him, but the tension even in that tiny clip! Wow!

@FrolickingFizzgig
Yah, I dont know what's going on. What you say sounds pretty good if it that's what it is. I always feel like you explain character motivation very well. Something I tend to not think of much. Im a very visual person.

I'm mainly  basing/guessing she is looking for something in particular based on visual techniques im seeing and the way the camera moves and also piecing it with the other scene and what she seems to be hunting for in the leaks. She seems to smash it, kylo on possible defence to stop it. Once smashed shes looking inside the podium (possibly)

This could add up to what you are saying as well though. I dont know. the techniques used could also be used to emphasise what you are saying in regards to the character motivation. It would fit.

@Gemini
I don't think she's looking for anything in the podium, I think she just wants to wreck it to hurt him! This happens through the Force Bond.





I do feel she's looking for the knife or something in Ben's private chamber, which is why she's holding it when she smashes the pedestal, but she has already located it by the time the smashing occurs. Your eye for technique is on point. She probably comes across the helmet on the stand and has a moment with it because she has never seen it before and it's really the most incredibly physical symbol of Ben's fear. Rey will probably reflect a combination of desperation and spite because Kylo contacts her again and they have a confrontation through the Force Bond. It's her first time seeing the mask, but she despises this thing and what it represents. It's Daisy saying "you could have had it all". She's really going to be out to punish him for part of this film, and eventually it's all going to turn on its head when he follows her to the death star in order to prevent her from using the Wayfinder. She ends up nearly losing it all to the dark and stabbing him in a "who's really the dark side?" duel.



This shot is exactly the opposite of what we saw in the snow battle in TFA. Rey is the one who is furious now. Ben is determined and for the first time he probably feels truly connected to a purpose. He's seeing it here as she turns her back on him and he desperately wants her to turn around. Adam talked about a "codependency" that I think is fascinating and really telling for Ben's motivations in TROS. After a year of sinking deeper into the hole of dissatisfaction despite having everything he thought he wanted, he has realized that the only thing that ever made him feel whole was the human connection he made with her. He wants her back, and he may go about accomplishing that the wrong way at first, but it's all leading to something beautiful.

OK, the wheels in my head are turning.

Someone quickly confirm what this shot is likely to be:
Is this Kylo physically on one planet and Rey looking at him when she's really on his ship about to smash the podium? Is Kylo physically on the snow planet then?

So... who is the person coming down the steps in the background "behind" Rey (though I assume that person is physically on the same planet as Kylo)? Does it make sense timewise if it's either Finn or Poe? Just curious if what I said is at all plausible according to leaks and whatever else we know.

I must say that Daisy's words in video sound quite different from text version, she is really stressing out that it will be explored and "toxic" sentence sounds very conversational and unimportant.

@nickandnora In JP's leaks she is in his room on the ship and he is on Kijimi. IIRC, JW wasn't sure that it's true and thought that it's vice versa and he thought that this Force Bond proves that Rey and Kylo can fully transport to each others location so Rey starts FB on the planet but then escapes jumping from "Force Bond session'. It doesn't make sense as where will be Kylo then when she "escapes"? But maybe also starting on Kijimi and then meeting her via Force Bond in his room. And maybe it foreshadows that they can move to different places together and stay there.

nickandnora wrote:OK, the wheels in my head are turning.

Someone quickly confirm what this shot is likely to be:
Is this Kylo physically on one planet and Rey looking at him when she's really on his ship about to smash the podium? Is Kylo physically on the snow planet then?

So... who is the person coming down the steps in the background "behind" Rey (though I assume that person is physically on the same planet as Kylo)? Does it make sense timewise if it's either Finn or Poe? Just curious if what I said is at all plausible according to leaks and whatever else we know.

@nickandnora

I think it could be Pryde? The pose and the coat. Just a guess though.

Gemini wrote:@Teo oswald

Looks like they switch around after the fight..so they stop fighting. That matches the leaks right?

@Gemini

I don't know, I don't give much importance to leaks, also because they are constantly updated, the last thing I heard is that Ben Solo will live. (and that's enough for me)
Maybe JP has said the right things but the details ..... I have good hope for a great ending

SkyStar wrote:

nickandnora wrote:OK, the wheels in my head are turning.

Someone quickly confirm what this shot is likely to be:
Is this Kylo physically on one planet and Rey looking at him when she's really on his ship about to smash the podium? Is Kylo physically on the snow planet then?

So... who is the person coming down the steps in the background "behind" Rey (though I assume that person is physically on the same planet as Kylo)? Does it make sense timewise if it's either Finn or Poe? Just curious if what I said is at all plausible according to leaks and whatever else we know.

@nickandnora

I think it could be Pryde? The pose and the coat. Just a guess though.

@SkyStar


Good guess! That is the swagger stick.. it is the exact width... it is not a saber to thin.  this is the best shot I could get.



@gemini

Pretty sure that Rey should already had her dagger in her back pack when she confronts vader's mask and kylo in his room.

but that is what the spoilers say....

Oh, come on, JJ!





I love that the fairy tale subversions are continuing in full effect. All of this will be followed by Rey escaping and Ben watching with concerned acceptance, but he does decide to go after her because she's in danger and he's the only one who can. The neat thing is Rey is her own worst enemy in this version. It's her own dark side that is the true menace, not wolves. Ben is willing to die to stop her from finding Palpatine.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:



This shot is exactly the opposite of what we saw in the snow battle in TFA. Rey is the one who is furious now. Ben is determined and for the first time he probably feels truly connected to a purpose. He's seeing it here as she turns her back on him and he desperately wants her to turn around.

@FrolickingFizzgig
I agree, her expression reminds me of this scene.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Possibly! you may be right.

It may not even be either or. It can be symbolic of character turmoil/confrontation as well as plot moving at the same time. Shots can have multiple layers in regards to visual story telling and symbolism of characters inner turmoil, demons, fears etc. Like a many layered onion.

I'm bugged by the not quite "4:3" frame LOL because they are cutting sith out of the frame so emphasis is hard for me to try and decipher. We are not getting the full 16:9 frame

The shot also appears to be cut short as well and it doesnt stop on the helmet it. If I was to take a guess at how it plays out. It startes on the helmet, moves around, down and pans up to reveal Rey looking at it but Im noticing that  as it moves round its also going further down the podium to reveal more to it, then adding it with the next scene we have here, she breaks it open. Its a guess, though. I could be wrong.

Also damn, that's an incredible spot on the flip of TFA ending shot! and she is more aggressive this time, lawd. You do have a good eye for the visual symbolism and film language expressing what the characters inner thoughts are. It takes me a lot longer to figure out what a scene/image is trying to say in regards to the characters feelings and inner thoughts/turmoil/demons/conflicts. Thank you for the insight on that shot. I didnt notice that similarity



'

nickandnora wrote:OK, the wheels in my head are turning.

Someone quickly confirm what this shot is likely to be:
Is this Kylo physically on one planet and Rey looking at him when she's really on his ship about to smash the podium? Is Kylo physically on the snow planet then?

So... who is the person coming down the steps in the background "behind" Rey (though I assume that person is physically on the same planet as Kylo)? Does it make sense timewise if it's either Finn or Poe? Just curious if what I said is at all plausible according to leaks and whatever else we know.

@nickandnora




I actuallty think thats Pryde...thats too thin to be Kylos saber. Its possibly Pryde's swagger stick. You also have rey's face. She hasnt seen this dude before

Is this the planet that Rey's "parents ship" pulls in to in the teaser trailer? Also..damn Rey dont you ever feel cold..

special_cases wrote:I must say that Daisy's words in video sound quite different from text version, she is really stressing out that it will be explored and "toxic" sentence sounds very conversational and unimportant.

@nickandnora In JP's leaks she is in his room on the ship and he is on Kijimi. IIRC, JW wasn't sure that it's true and thought that it's vice versa and he thought that this Force Bond proves that Rey and Kylo can fully transport to each others location so Rey starts FB on the planet but then escapes jumping from "Force Bond session'. It doesn't make sense as where will be Kylo then when she "escapes"? But maybe also starting on Kijimi and then meeting her via Force Bond in his room. And maybe it foreshadows that they can move to different places together and stay there.

@special_cases

I think Kylo being on Kijimi and then Rey being on the ship makes the most sense. Then I'm wondering if when the Falcon blasts off and she jumps on (and he's blasted back), that's actually what severs the bond and he returns to Kijimi. It would mean @FrolickingFizzgig's really good idea that the earlier clip of Kylo contemplating the Vader mask isn't (potentially) after this. But here's why I'm questioning this at all: Why is ANYONE there on the steps? I'm going to propose something kind of wacky: someone is there on the steps, because a part that we haven't seen is that when Kylo is blasted back by the Falcon, he drops his mask. Is it possible that the person on the steps - whoever it may be - picks it up?



ETA: Ah, I realize that this might be some erroneous assumptions here. Still, I guess my point stands even if there isn't specific evidence in what we're seeing: maybe someone picks up Kylo's mask after he's "blasted."

I really think it's Kylo for 2 reasons:

1) There's a red glow at the edge of his lightsaber just as he goes off-screen. They both have "stunt" sabers which means they're a bit thinner, according to something I read online. Rey's is thinner and longer as well.

2) Rey isn't wearing a coat. She isn't on Kijimi, she's on the death star and they're interacting through the Force Bond.

The Force Bond gets hella powerful in this film. They're manifesting in each other's spaces in no time. Visually this really lends a lot more evidence to Kylo travelling through it to Exogol in the climax and not really being "there".

good point, she aint cold. No coat.

A ship does pull into this planet it seems so it may not be through the force bond.

I do also see the red. But the end of the stick is too thin and not matching Kylos saber.

This movie cant come around quick enough OMG..Im getting tired of speculating LMAO

nickandnora wrote:

special_cases wrote:I must say that Daisy's words in video sound quite different from text version, she is really stressing out that it will be explored and "toxic" sentence sounds very conversational and unimportant.

@nickandnora In JP's leaks she is in his room on the ship and he is on Kijimi. IIRC, JW wasn't sure that it's true and thought that it's vice versa and he thought that this Force Bond proves that Rey and Kylo can fully transport to each others location so Rey starts FB on the planet but then escapes jumping from "Force Bond session'. It doesn't make sense as where will be Kylo then when she "escapes"? But maybe also starting on Kijimi and then meeting her via Force Bond in his room. And maybe it foreshadows that they can move to different places together and stay there.

@special_cases

I think Kylo being on Kijimi and then Rey being on the ship makes the most sense. Then I'm wondering if when the Falcon blasts off and she jumps on (and he's blasted back), that's actually what severs the bond and he returns to Kijimi. It would mean @FrolickingFizzgig's really good idea that the earlier clip of Kylo contemplating the Vader mask isn't (potentially) after this. But here's why I'm questioning this at all: Why is ANYONE there on the steps? I'm going to propose something kind of wacky: someone is there on the steps, because a part that we haven't seen is that when Kylo is blasted back by the Falcon, he drops his mask. Is it possible that the person on the steps - whoever it may be - picks it up?



ETA: Ah, I realize that this might be some erroneous assumptions here. Still, I guess my point stands even if there isn't specific evidence in what we're seeing: maybe someone picks up Kylo's mask after he's "blasted."

@nickandnora
While I don't believe anybody's picking up the mask or anything personally, the idea that Kylo isn't actually on the ship at all (or is, but through the Force Bond's teleportation power) lends a whole heck of a lot of credence to Ben traveling from the death star to Exogol the same way near the end of the film (and then travelling back when he falls). They can go back and forth, seemingly.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

nickandnora wrote:

special_cases wrote:I must say that Daisy's words in video sound quite different from text version, she is really stressing out that it will be explored and "toxic" sentence sounds very conversational and unimportant.

@nickandnora In JP's leaks she is in his room on the ship and he is on Kijimi. IIRC, JW wasn't sure that it's true and thought that it's vice versa and he thought that this Force Bond proves that Rey and Kylo can fully transport to each others location so Rey starts FB on the planet but then escapes jumping from "Force Bond session'. It doesn't make sense as where will be Kylo then when she "escapes"? But maybe also starting on Kijimi and then meeting her via Force Bond in his room. And maybe it foreshadows that they can move to different places together and stay there.

@special_cases

I think Kylo being on Kijimi and then Rey being on the ship makes the most sense. Then I'm wondering if when the Falcon blasts off and she jumps on (and he's blasted back), that's actually what severs the bond and he returns to Kijimi. It would mean @FrolickingFizzgig's really good idea that the earlier clip of Kylo contemplating the Vader mask isn't (potentially) after this. But here's why I'm questioning this at all: Why is ANYONE there on the steps? I'm going to propose something kind of wacky: someone is there on the steps, because a part that we haven't seen is that when Kylo is blasted back by the Falcon, he drops his mask. Is it possible that the person on the steps - whoever it may be - picks it up?



ETA: Ah, I realize that this might be some erroneous assumptions here. Still, I guess my point stands even if there isn't specific evidence in what we're seeing: maybe someone picks up Kylo's mask after he's "blasted."

@nickandnora
While I don't believe anybody's picking up the mask or anything personally, the idea that Kylo isn't actually on the ship at all (or is, but through the Force Bond's teleportation power) lends a whole heck of a lot of credence to Ben traveling from the death star to Exogol the same way near the end of the film (and then travelling back when he falls). They can go back and forth, seemingly.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Game of Thrones type speed but with an actual explanation.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

nickandnora wrote:

special_cases wrote:I must say that Daisy's words in video sound quite different from text version, she is really stressing out that it will be explored and "toxic" sentence sounds very conversational and unimportant.

@nickandnora In JP's leaks she is in his room on the ship and he is on Kijimi. IIRC, JW wasn't sure that it's true and thought that it's vice versa and he thought that this Force Bond proves that Rey and Kylo can fully transport to each others location so Rey starts FB on the planet but then escapes jumping from "Force Bond session'. It doesn't make sense as where will be Kylo then when she "escapes"? But maybe also starting on Kijimi and then meeting her via Force Bond in his room. And maybe it foreshadows that they can move to different places together and stay there.

@special_cases

I think Kylo being on Kijimi and then Rey being on the ship makes the most sense. Then I'm wondering if when the Falcon blasts off and she jumps on (and he's blasted back), that's actually what severs the bond and he returns to Kijimi. It would mean @FrolickingFizzgig's really good idea that the earlier clip of Kylo contemplating the Vader mask isn't (potentially) after this. But here's why I'm questioning this at all: Why is ANYONE there on the steps? I'm going to propose something kind of wacky: someone is there on the steps, because a part that we haven't seen is that when Kylo is blasted back by the Falcon, he drops his mask. Is it possible that the person on the steps - whoever it may be - picks it up?



ETA: Ah, I realize that this might be some erroneous assumptions here. Still, I guess my point stands even if there isn't specific evidence in what we're seeing: maybe someone picks up Kylo's mask after he's "blasted."

@nickandnora
While I don't believe anybody's picking up the mask or anything personally, the idea that Kylo isn't actually on the ship at all (or is, but through the Force Bond's teleportation power) lends a whole heck of a lot of credence to Ben traveling from the death star to Exogol the same way near the end of the film (and then travelling back when he falls). They can go back and forth, seemingly.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh yeah, for sure. Also if it's a bond it shows him literally being affected by the elements, ie. there's really no difference when you're observing it as to whether he's there or not there (perfect set-up for the end of the film).

I admit the mask thing borders on crackpot (and I'm fine with it not happening). The only reason I posited it because I was pretty sure that was Rey and Kylo in the foreground (but with Rey really being on his ship with Kylo on Kijimi), and I'm always suspicious when films put extra bodies in scenes they don't (at first glance) need to be in. Hence my wondering about why there's someone descending the stairs in what is likely to be a scene that is very much just about Rey and Kylo.

@gemini

Rey & Pryde are probably on the same snow planet in the original trailer... Rey fought kylo on starkiller base without a coat

spacebaby45678 wrote:@gemini

Rey & Pryde are on the same snow planet in the original trailer... Rey fought kylo on starkiller base without a coat


www.comingsoon.net/assets/uploads/2019/04/ReyPP.jpg" alt="" />

@spacebaby45678

True. She did.

Here is kylo saber and the image together, to mee it looks to thin to be his saber. The persons hand is big compared to it:

@gemini

Could be Kylo's saber

nickandnora wrote:OK, the wheels in my head are turning.

Someone quickly confirm what this shot is likely to be:
Is this Kylo physically on one planet and Rey looking at him when she's really on his ship about to smash the podium? Is Kylo physically on the snow planet then?

So... who is the person coming down the steps in the background "behind" Rey (though I assume that person is physically on the same planet as Kylo)? Does it make sense timewise if it's either Finn or Poe? Just curious if what I said is at all plausible according to leaks and whatever else we know.

@nickandnora

I think is Kylo in from of her (because the red light beside the person and both have some reddish in the hilt) and that could be Hux coming down...?





@whisperingwillow @californiagirl @special_cases I only thought she didn't need to use this word again.

BTW, one last thing before I go beddie byes!

To me, Rey is totally reminiscent of a Greek/Roman goddess statue here. Its almost like a statue of Aphrodite/Venus before Kylo. Its a certain pose they are sculpted in

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:The Force Bond gets hella powerful in this film. They're manifesting in each other's spaces in no time. Visually this really lends a lot more evidence to Kylo travelling through it to Exogol in the climax and not really being "there".

@FrolickingFizzgig

If the bit in the leaks about Rey ending up with the only Wayfinder after the Death Star fight is true, then it’s a clever (and only?) explanation for how Kylo is able to make it to Exogol, after spending a whole movie stressing how this device is the only means of access.

If they do go this way, I’d also expect Kylo to make a sudden reappearance after it looks like he’s been taken out of the picture, since this seems like a too-perfect way to fool Palpatine.

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:The Force Bond gets hella powerful in this film. They're manifesting in each other's spaces in no time. Visually this really lends a lot more evidence to Kylo travelling through it to Exogol in the climax and not really being "there".

@FrolickingFizzgig

If the bit in the leaks about Rey ending up with the only Wayfinder after the Death Star fight is true, then it’s a clever (and only?) explanation for how Kylo is able to make it to Exogol, after spending a whole movie stressing how this device is the only means of access.

If they do go this way, I’d also expect Kylo to make a sudden reappearance after it looks like he’s been taken out of the picture, since this seems like a too-perfect way to fool Palpatine.

@Saracene
I agree. It makes perfect sense. It references previous parts of the ST in Luke's projection and Kylo learning from how he was fooled, the set-up is all there and it absolutely appears to be the only way Kylo could possibly get from the death star to Exogol. He has no ship, no Wayfinder, no allies, nothing. He's alone just like Rey and evidently Han's vision gives him a pep-talk. Being "thrown" out of the fight fits into this as well for exactly the reason you pointed out.