ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 2

I'm not sure how I feel about shredded Finn. He's supposed to be in a coma for who knows how long, and normally there isn't much muscle mass left after just 6 weeks. At least show a few scenes of his recovery then, not just an almost dead guy jumping out of bed, grabbing a gun and running out of the room straight into a battlefield.

@Rogue Rey

I just think it's hilarious that people take all this meaning from Mark's exaggerated wink, yet fail to appreciate the fact that the man despises spoilers. The cherry picking is real. If Mark Hamill, an actor who's signed a non disclosure agreement and who dislikes having stories spoiled for him himself, isn't taking your theory seriously in the slightest (see: the wink), then you might want to rethink the theory.

Of course nothing matters. Not Maz's speech, not Pablo's dissection of Maz's speech, not Mark's contradictory trolling. Rey grew up on a desert planet, guys.

Kessel89 wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:

Force22 wrote:

vaderito wrote:That's very possible. Maybe he'll flex his muscles for her? They are huge from weight lifting. Or, even better, maybe he bridal carries KMT?

I think we'll see him shirtless. I think something we picked up might have actually been noticed by the audience. Finn does not look like a hero. He's not typically masculine, nor has more feminine traits like artistic sensibility, emotional conflict, whatever. Well, I don't think they'll suddenly give him any type of sensibility, but they can amp up his masculinity. Big biceps without shirt can accomplish that. And it looks good in a movie too. So I think we'll have shirtless Finn.

Edit @Kessel89 : I think being in shape and having huge muscles are different things... He was in shape. Now he'll have ridiculous looking muscles to show...

I agree, he's already considered "brave" like a hero, so now they're trying to make him physically look more like a typical hero, with the muscles.

If we get shirtless Finn, I demand shirtless Kylo too! And they should throw in shirtless Poe. Btw, that reminds me of a funny/joke photo montage I saw (I think on Tumblr) showing three different pics of how Daisy, John and Oscar are "preparing" for Episode VIII; one is a pic of Daisy working out, another, a pic of John working out and the last is a pic of Oscar eating chips. I thought it was funny.

They forgot to add Adam though

Agreed. Adam may not flaunt it on social media, but he's been working out too (and has been from before as well)...he's going to be in top shape in episode VIII, with those shoulders, those arms, that back, etc....

I guess you could say that the US Marine Corps' loss is the worlds gain!!  AD is such a wonderful actor (hardly ever see anything negative in respect to his acting - I know that the film mag I subscribe to absolutely loves him!!) and clearly he's not afraid to push his abilities.

I like to think that Daisy has and will learn a lot from him in terms of acting (despite how short a time he's been doing it himself) because the majority of their scenes together have and most likely will be intense and challenging.

MyOnlyHope wrote:Of course nothing matters. Not Maz's speech, not Pablo's dissection of Maz's speech, not Mark's contradictory trolling. Rey grew up on a desert planet, guys.

I think a lot of people are going to drastically change their minds when the hype is revived by the official trailer for VIII (plus, who knows how much more stuff will be leaked by then!). You'll see YouTubers attempting to sell "Rey Random" as the newest never-seen-before-theory, and a few of the passive fans will read up on all sorts of theories as well.

Until then, let's just ignore the rude fans, whatever it is they're rude about.

MyOnlyHope wrote:@Rogue Rey

I just think it's hilarious that people take all this meaning from Mark's exaggerated wink, yet fail to appreciate the fact that the man despises spoilers. The cherry picking is real. If Mark Hamill, an actor who's signed a non disclosure agreement and who dislikes having stories spoiled for him himself, isn't taking your theory seriously in the slightest (see: the wink), then you might want to rethink the theory.

Of course nothing matters. Not Maz's speech, not Pablo's dissection of Maz's speech, not Mark's contradictory trolling. Rey grew up on a desert planet, guys.

@MyOnlyHope totally that man loves a good troll!!!!

I guess that Jakku is apparently a colder desert climate to Tatooine means nothing to them either.  Nevermind tho - let them have their theory.  We have ours

Rimfaxe96 wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about shredded Finn. He's supposed to be in a coma for who knows how long, and normally there isn't much muscle mass left after just 6 weeks. At least show a few scenes of his recovery then, not just an almost dead guy jumping out of bed, grabbing a gun and running out of the room straight into a battlefield.

I agree, but honestly, it wouldn't be the first time they've taken liberties with Finn's character to further the story, plot (i.e. His hesitation to kill the villagers, but no hesitation to kill his fellow stormtroopers;  his being happy, sweet and funny despite his history as a solider with the FO his whole life; his sudden fear in Takodana and five minute abandonment of Rey).  They want Finn to "look" like a hero now, I don't know if we'll get an explanation for his new body. Maybe we won't need one because we'll only really see the difference when he's shirtless? I don't know...

There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

Rethinking virgin Kylo?

I think it could be that he closed himself to the outside world, created an armour around his vulnerabilities, so as to not get hurt.
Instead of thinking that he misses human contact, perhaps he decided that he didn't need it? Then closed himself off to intimacy.

Kessel89 wrote:I agree, but honestly, it wouldn't be the first time they've taken liberties with Finn's character to further the story, plot (i.e. His hesitation to kill the villagers, but no hesitation to kill his fellow stormtroopers;  his being happy, sweet and funny despite his history as a solider with the FO his whole life; his sudden fear in Takodana and five minute abandonment of Rey).  They want Finn to "look" like a hero now, I don't know if we'll get an explanation for his new body. Maybe we won't need one because we'll only really see the difference when he's shirtless? I don't know...

There's one really well-hidden scene in TFA that was an attempt to show how clueless he is about everyday stuff; after escaping from the rathtars and marauders (or whoever they were) Finn is expertly handling Chewie's wound - just like he was taught during training in the FO of course. A little bit later after Han thanks him for his help, he leans onto the dejarik table and accidentally activates it - and has no idea how to shut it off again (or even use it). It's very subtle, and if it wasn't the the TFA novel I never would have given it a second thought.

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

No, quite the other way around - people who were relatively lonely in their youth typically remain to be loners. Irl it's mostly because they're socially inept, and everyone quits trying if they get burned often enough (or develope grudges); in Kylo's case I think it's going to have something to do with the public-making of being related to Vader (although I gotta wait till Bloodlines to be confirmed or proven wrong about this), which ended up with Leia having to leave the Republic behind for her own safety - what if "Vaders far reaching shadow" had a negative influence on his life as well?

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

It actually makes complete sense, and it is a willing prison. Kylo is an individual who attempts to deny certain aspects of his being, most notably the "pull to the Light". The "Light" itself as a huge symbol representative of the pull to his family, to attachment, to intimacy, to the life he never lived. He was indoctrinated to believe that such fickle human qualities are beneath him, but he can't help but feel a desire for what he was always starved of. He dismisses it, but it's clear that he repeatedly "feels it again".

He hates the pull to the Light. He hates Ben Solo, the man he conceals in layers of clothing. He doesn't want to be Ben Solo or Kylo Ren, he wants to be an extension of Vader, to finish what Vader started.

As for most people "usually" turning to promiscuity... that's just not true at all. Ren is very much a commentary on a child who was preyed upon by an older figure when his parents were absent. That has sexual abuse written all over it. I am NOT saying that Snoke physically abused Ren, but he did groom him in a manner that eerily echoes the mannerisms of a pedophile. The metaphor is there, and it's not hidden. The conversations Leia and Han have, as well as Ren's face-off with Han, also corroborate it. Your "terrible experiences" can be found in this metaphor.

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

It says in the novel that part of his training is to ensure he avoids all emotion. Clearly, it's not really working for him because he's a total wreck. But I'd say he doesn't trust anyone, perhaps not even Snoke. He feels like he's been let down by every family member and must not have any friends. It's very sad to think about.

Force22 wrote:

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

Rethinking virgin Kylo?

I think it could be that he closed himself to the outside world, created an armour around his vulnerabilities, so as to not get hurt.
Instead of thinking that he misses human contact, perhaps he decided that he didn't need it? Then closed himself off to intimacy.

I think that it is a combination of things.  IMO, he is very sensitive and introverted character by nature.  That in and of itself will lead to hiding oneself.  If anyone read my stuff in the Virgin!Kylo thread, they know that I also think that he suffered some severe metaphorical abuse at the hands of Snoke and/or his minions.  At the very least I think he has "gotten the lightning" or suffered some other kind of torture.  That "reminder is in order" response from Snoke with regard to his compassion for Rey is indicative of this.  So that is another reason for hiding behind armor.  Finally, after watching the interrogation scene again (I am planning a big post on it, but don't have the time now), I am absolutely convinced that he has also put a "don't let yourself get distracted from the mission ... including don't get distracted sexually" rule on himself at the time of TFA.  The whole Knights Templar look goes along with that.

BastilaBey wrote:

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

It says in the novel that part of his training is to ensure he avoids all emotion. Clearly, it's not really working for him because he's a total wreck. But I'd say he doesn't trust anyone, perhaps not even Snoke. He feels like he's been let down by every family member and must not have any friends. It's very sad to think about.

There is only one thing he truly trusts, but he's just as shameful in its presence: Vader's mask.

Another thing - promiscuity is generally used to gain self-affirmation. Kylo never needed that, he knows he's special because look at that pedigree + force-sensitive. Considering his entitled, selfish attitude, I doubt he spent a lot of his time with anything that isn't related to him gaining force power via training.

BastilaBey wrote:It says in the novel that part of his training is to ensure he avoids all emotion.

Not just part of his training - majority of his training. Didn't work anymore after Rey showed up though. xD

I'm not rethinking Virgin!Kylo. Virgin!Kylo is a beautiful unique thing. Wonder if Pablo would answer that one. probably NEVER.

Is it just me or is he wearing eyeliner? xD

But yeah, tragically beautiful. Not handsome, not "sexy" or "hot". Beautiful. And people say he's not supposed to be the romantic lead LOL

It isn't just you. He has it in Snow Fight because they want to give him that haunted, deranged look after patricide. he didn't have it in the scene with Han.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:

vaderito wrote:There's one thing about Kylo that doesn't compute. Since he felt abandoned and neglected, wouldn't that make him more eager for human contact and intimacy than shunning it in such extreme way? usually people who lack it become promiscuous because they try to substitute in all the wrong ways. But locking oneself out of any human touch and intimacy like Kylo does makes sense only if he had some terrible experience with it, like physical abuse. Which we know he didn't suffer from his parents. Wearing all those layers and a mask is hiding himself and keeping whatever whoever out. It's like willing prison.

It says in the novel that part of his training is to ensure he avoids all emotion. Clearly, it's not really working for him because he's a total wreck. But I'd say he doesn't trust anyone, perhaps not even Snoke. He feels like he's been let down by every family member and must not have any friends. It's very sad to think about.

There is only one thing he truly trusts, but he's just as shameful in its presence: Vader's mask.

I do wonder why force ghost Anakin hasn't visited him yet - presumably he's just talking to the mask and not getting anything back. Kylo's levels of self loathing must be off the charts.

vaderito wrote:It isn't just you. He has it in Snow Fight because they want to give him that haunted, deranged look after patricide. he didn't have it in the scene with Han.

Because his mascara ran as he cried. Not really though xD

It looks nice, I just didn't notice it until now. It makes him look very haunted (which makes sense).

"Show me, again, the power of the darkness" indicates he got visited by...something.At least once before. We don't know how long he has that mask.

vaderito wrote:"Show me, again, the power of the darkness" indicates he got visited by...something.At least once before. We don't know how long he has that mask.

But if it were really Anakin, wouldn't it be the one who said 'you were right about me' to Luke as he died? If anyone's been 'visiting' Kylo, it's Snoke impersonating his grandfather. Probably a powerful manipulative tool.

vaderito wrote:It isn't just you. He has it in Snow Fight because they want to give him that haunted, deranged look after patricide. he didn't have it in the scene with Han.

I think he also has lipstick (I  know it sounds bad, let's call it make up on the lips or whatever) in the interrogation scene. For his  Snow White look.

He also has subtle eyeliner for the interrogation scene, and maybe even some eye shadow.

True that he doesn't have eyeliner when speaking to Han.

These emo kids... He kills his father, is shot, and still finds time to put eyeliner...

Reynak wrote:

Gemini wrote:The very first lines of the film basically tell you how the trilogy must end

You mean this?

The first thing San Tekka says is,

"This will begin to make things right."

Are this the words people refer to?

The first lines, "this will make things right.....need a balance in the force."

Ahem

Ren and Rey

He is telling us what will happen,

MyOnlyHope wrote:@Rogue Rey

I just think it's hilarious that people take all this meaning from Mark's exaggerated wink, yet fail to appreciate the fact that the man despises spoilers. The cherry picking is real. If Mark Hamill, an actor who's signed a non disclosure agreement and who dislikes having stories spoiled for him himself, isn't taking your theory seriously in the slightest (see: the wink), then you might want to rethink the theory.

Of course nothing matters. Not Maz's speech, not Pablo's dissection of Maz's speech, not Mark's contradictory trolling. Rey grew up on a desert planet, guys.

I seriously saw a tumblr post that had a picture of Luke scrunching his face while fighting, and a picture of Rey scrunching her face while pointing the gun to shoot at Kylo. The caption? "Like father, like daughter."

Because face scrunching is genetic.

@force22 Definitely, Rey has more colorful lips in the interrogation scene too. And what looks like some subtle eyeliner. When Kylo has Finn up against the tree, you can see the eyeliner smudging around his face, I guess to amplify the unravelling. For sure plays into the 'emo kylo ren' idea. They were full on going for Byronic hero with his hair though, they intended for a large part of the audience to crush on him.