Discussion: Bloodline Novel by Claudia Gray

SoloSideCousin wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin @kessel89 there are parts of TFA that lead us to believe he is acting out of entitlement, but to me that seems like a red herring and it will fall away as the next movie reveals more of his true motivations. The biggest thing for me is how Leia is still so sure there's light in him. That to me screamed Padme at the end of rots, and she was right. Hopefully the reverse Anakin theory is on the right track and he comes to his senses. Falling in love with an adorable scavenger should help there

@BastilaBey

I really think that so many things are going to get turned on their head in Episode VIII, including this. @snufkin wrote a great post somewhere (Episode VIII thread?), talking about the three steps of a good magic trick that has made me think that all kinds of things that we may be assuming in TFA may not turn out to be true.

@SoloSideCousin

If this is the case, I can almost here the accusations of 'retconning' coming from a certain place...

Not sure if I should move this over to the redemption thread but @panki's theory on Ben acting in self defense at the Jedi massacre is really intriguing me. The force vision made it look like Luke had perhaps been away at the time and then arrived back once the place had been destroyed and people were dead. What if the whole Vader thing came out while Luke wasn't there, and Ben didn't know about it until the other students confronted him? And then they wanted to attack him or accuse him of being on the dark side? Ben could act in self defense, and then Snoke use his guilt and fear to bring him over to the FO/KoR. We already know he's been trying to poison his mind since he was ten, so the foundation is already there. And then Ben thinks, this must be my destiny because it's what my grandfather started, my parents and uncle lied to me so what did they see in me that they were so afraid of? I must be dark, this must be where I belong.

BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if I should move this over to the redemption thread but @panki's theory on Ben acting in self defense at the Jedi massacre is really intriguing me. The force vision made it look like Luke had perhaps been away at the time and then arrived back once the place had been destroyed and people were dead. What if the whole Vader thing came out while Luke wasn't there, and Ben didn't know about it until the other students confronted him? And then they wanted to attack him or accuse him of being on the dark side? Ben could act in self defense, and then Snoke use his guilt and fear to bring him over to the FO/KoR. We already know he's been trying to poison his mind since he was ten, so the foundation is already there. And then Ben thinks, this must be my destiny because it's what my grandfather started, my parents and uncle lied to me so what did they see in me that they were so afraid of? I must be dark, this must be where I belong.

@BastilaBey

I am now getting chills (not in a good way) thinking of Snoke telling Ben- Look what you just did....you're a jedi killer too...just like your grandfather...it is your destiny....
Poor Ben Solo....

BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if I should move this over to the redemption thread but @panki's theory on Ben acting in self defense at the Jedi massacre is really intriguing me. The force vision made it look like Luke had perhaps been away at the time and then arrived back once the place had been destroyed and people were dead. What if the whole Vader thing came out while Luke wasn't there, and Ben didn't know about it until the other students confronted him? And then they wanted to attack him or accuse him of being on the dark side? Ben could act in self defense, and then Snoke use his guilt and fear to bring him over to the FO/KoR. We already know he's been trying to poison his mind since he was ten, so the foundation is already there. And then Ben thinks, this must be my destiny because it's what my grandfather started, my parents and uncle lied to me so what did they see in me that they were so afraid of? I must be dark, this must be where I belong.

@BastilaBey

Yeah I loved that theory by @panki and I hope they go with that - where Ben had to defend himself because everyone found out he was Vader's grandson. Tragic. Then Snoke/Hux spread it around that he was a JediKiller on purpose.
He couldn't go back to his family even if he wanted to.

BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin @kessel89 there are parts of TFA that lead us to believe he is acting out of entitlement, but to me that seems like a red herring and it will fall away as the next movie reveals more of his true motivations. The biggest thing for me is how Leia is still so sure there's light in him. That to me screamed Padme at the end of rots, and she was right. Hopefully the reverse Anakin theory is on the right track and he comes to his senses. Falling in love with an adorable scavenger should help there

@BastilaBey

This is another point that really helps me believe in the redemption of Kylo. Leia would look kind of like an incompetent FS person. Not telling Han (in the novel) about Snoke, waiting too long to send Kylo to Luke, not figuring out it was someone close to her circle, like Snoke, who was preying on Ben with the darkside (shades of Palpatine and the Jedi).

Feeling that there is still light in him, "I just know it!" and then sending her husband off to his death. Not her fault, but I feel it would just taint Leia all the more.

Am I the only one that started to giggle like a schoolgirl over the..

spoiler:

No but, really! For about five minutes. Giggles and giggles repeating "oh, lovely".

BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin @kessel89 there are parts of TFA that lead us to believe he is acting out of entitlement, but to me that seems like a red herring and it will fall away as the next movie reveals more of his true motivations. The biggest thing for me is how Leia is still so sure there's light in him. That to me screamed Padme at the end of rots, and she was right. Hopefully the reverse Anakin theory is on the right track and he comes to his senses. Falling in love with an adorable scavenger should help there

@BastilaBey
I think it's definitely a strong possibility, but this is like the Jedi Killer for me. We're supposed to believe he pulled an Anakin on Luke's temple and that he thinks it's his birthright to reign over the weaker beings of the galaxy. For now, that's what I'm going with. They can tell an excellent story with both scenarios being true (with a little elaboration on both with regards to motivations). I wouldn't be disappointed if it really was that simple, but I'm still hoping for a slightly more complex backstory. I just don't see Ben as power-hungry for himself. I do think he's entitled though, but not necessarily for his own sake.

Search Your Feelings wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if I should move this over to the redemption thread but @panki's theory on Ben acting in self defense at the Jedi massacre is really intriguing me. The force vision made it look like Luke had perhaps been away at the time and then arrived back once the place had been destroyed and people were dead. What if the whole Vader thing came out while Luke wasn't there, and Ben didn't know about it until the other students confronted him? And then they wanted to attack him or accuse him of being on the dark side? Ben could act in self defense, and then Snoke use his guilt and fear to bring him over to the FO/KoR. We already know he's been trying to poison his mind since he was ten, so the foundation is already there. And then Ben thinks, this must be my destiny because it's what my grandfather started, my parents and uncle lied to me so what did they see in me that they were so afraid of? I must be dark, this must be where I belong.

@BastilaBey

Yeah I loved that theory by @panki and I hope they go with that - where Ben had to defend himself because everyone found out he was Vader's grandson.  Tragic.  Then Snoke/Hux spread it around that he was a JediKiller on purpose.
He couldn't go back to his family even if he wanted to.

@Search Your Feelings

I love this theory and hope @panki is right.
But I do really wonder, why didn't Luke tell him the truth.  I mean, he had a hard time realizing the truth about his father, because Obi-Wan lied to him. Why did he choose lying to Ben then? It seems to be out of character to me. That guy who once told his sister:"The force is strong in my family." Somehow he was proud of his lineage, wasn't he? But they didn't even tell Ben that Anakin was a Jedi, did they?

MyOnlyHope wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:Bloodline review from a Reylo shipper in Sweden - book came out there today I think

http://reylooo.tumblr.com/post/143514072983/book-review-bloodline-by-claudia-gray

@BastilaBey

What I think we all wanted to know (for people who don't want to be spoiled about everything).

Spoiler:

@MyOnlyHope

Spoiler:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

MyOnlyHope wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:Bloodline review from a Reylo shipper in Sweden - book came out there today I think

http://reylooo.tumblr.com/post/143514072983/book-review-bloodline-by-claudia-gray

@BastilaBey

What I think we all wanted to know (for people who don't want to be spoiled about everything).

Spoiler:

@MyOnlyHope

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

He must know that Vader turned back to the light. I believe it was in the novelization, Snoke and Kylo talk about Anakin/Vader and how he chose to save his son. Snoke tells Kylo that it was an act of compassion and that this was his weakness.

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

EchoBase wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

MyOnlyHope wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:Bloodline review from a Reylo shipper in Sweden - book came out there today I think

http://reylooo.tumblr.com/post/143514072983/book-review-bloodline-by-claudia-gray

@BastilaBey

What I think we all wanted to know (for people who don't want to be spoiled about everything).

Spoiler:

@MyOnlyHope

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

He must know that Vader turned back to the light. I believe it was in the novelization, Snoke and Kylo talk about Anakin/Vader and how he chose to save his son. Snoke tells Kylo that it was an act of compassion and that this was his weakness.

@EchoBase
You're right, he definitely knows. I'm sure he's been told a twisted account of what happened. Anakin's Force Ghost needs to show up and slap him upside the head.

I can't believe some people want to see Kylo go down the path "even Vader couldn't." *FACEPALM* Not only do they need to find a new franchise before Episode VIII because this one clearly isn't for them, they're not even right. There was never an attempt to make Vader sympathetic outside of Return of the Jedi. In Rebels, he's the creepiest thing imaginable (in charge of a literal organization that hunts Force Sensitive children for the Empire. Like oh my god. That's awful. The double-standards here are just pure insanity.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

EchoBase wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

MyOnlyHope wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:Bloodline review from a Reylo shipper in Sweden - book came out there today I think

http://reylooo.tumblr.com/post/143514072983/book-review-bloodline-by-claudia-gray

@BastilaBey

What I think we all wanted to know (for people who don't want to be spoiled about everything).

Spoiler:

@MyOnlyHope

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

He must know that Vader turned back to the light. I believe it was in the novelization, Snoke and Kylo talk about Anakin/Vader and how he chose to save his son. Snoke tells Kylo that it was an act of compassion and that this was his weakness.

@EchoBase
You're right, he definitely knows. I'm sure he's been told a twisted account of what happened. Anakin's Force Ghost needs to show up and slap him upside the head.

I can't believe some people want to see Kylo go down the path "even Vader couldn't." *FACEPALM* Not only do they need to find a new franchise before Episode VIII because this one clearly isn't for them, they're not even right. There was never an attempt to make Vader sympathetic outside of Return of the Jedi. In Rebels, he's the creepiest thing imaginable (in charge of a literal organization that hunts Force Sensitive children for the Empire. Like oh my god. That's awful. The double-standards here are just pure insanity.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Omg, imagine Hayden Christensen slapping Adam Driver and calling him "idiot", hilarious.

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
I genuinely think the timeline that Pablo revealed long ago was news to many people. It went ignored by the Reywalkers (who decided Pablo was lying and continued to theorize about massacre --> abandonment scenarios for months). But that's the thing, when you think about it, the timeline kills Rey Skywalker perhaps just as much as Maz's speech or Ren's infatuation. Rey was already on Jakku for years when this book takes place, and I think if anything it just makes it obvious that Leia, Han and Luke were all about Ben, their actual legacy.

An idea just crossed my mind: The line from novelization about Han hoping Kylo would find strength to forgive him.
Maybe Ben s during his teenage and adolescent age has expected of Han to provide him a kind of safe haven/shelter from all of the dark/light "mumbo-jumbos" going around him.
And Han simply was not there for his son enough.

I like all the spoilers we got so far form Bloodline. Gooood. Good.

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, though I can see the theories coming that since he keeps his life very private, of course Leia and Han and the world don't know about Lil'Rey and his Secret Wife.

AnneNeville wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, though I can see the theories coming that since he keeps his life very private, of course Leia and Han and the world don't know about Lil'Rey and his Secret Wife.

@AnneNeville
Yep, that's exactly what they would say. To those who see no other option than for Luke to be Rey's there is no longer regard for logic or continuity. They don't care. They just want to be right. That's why we're seeing all these insane theories. They need her to be related to Kylo, because if she isn't, then they're going to have to address what kind of hero/villain dynamic Rey and Kylo are most likely to have.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

EchoBase wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

MyOnlyHope wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:Bloodline review from a Reylo shipper in Sweden - book came out there today I think

http://reylooo.tumblr.com/post/143514072983/book-review-bloodline-by-claudia-gray

@BastilaBey

What I think we all wanted to know (for people who don't want to be spoiled about everything).

Spoiler:

@MyOnlyHope

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

He must know that Vader turned back to the light. I believe it was in the novelization, Snoke and Kylo talk about Anakin/Vader and how he chose to save his son. Snoke tells Kylo that it was an act of compassion and that this was his weakness.

@EchoBase
You're right, he definitely knows. I'm sure he's been told a twisted account of what happened. Anakin's Force Ghost needs to show up and slap him upside the head.

I can't believe some people want to see Kylo go down the path "even Vader couldn't." *FACEPALM* Not only do they need to find a new franchise before Episode VIII because this one clearly isn't for them, they're not even right. There was never an attempt to make Vader sympathetic outside of Return of the Jedi. In Rebels, he's the creepiest thing imaginable (in charge of a literal organization that hunts Force Sensitive children for the Empire. Like oh my god. That's awful. The double-standards here are just pure insanity.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I wish I could like this x 1000.

AnneNeville wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, though I can see the theories coming that since he keeps his life very private, of course Leia and Han and the world don't know about Lil'Rey and his Secret Wife.

@AnneNeville

Definitely, I can see Reywalkers arguments rise from "private".

Darth_Awakened wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, though I can see the theories coming that since he keeps his life very private, of course Leia and Han and the world don't know about Lil'Rey and his Secret Wife.

@AnneNeville

Definitely, I can see Reywalkers arguments rise from "private".

@Darth_Awakened

It has already begun.

AnneNeville wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, though I can see the theories coming that since he keeps his life very private, of course Leia and Han and the world don't know about Lil'Rey and his Secret Wife.

@AnneNeville

Definitely, I can see Reywalkers arguments rise from "private".

@Darth_Awakened

It has already begun.

@AnneNeville
Even though Pablo suggested that Luke and Leia are "very close" and even have a connection through the Force.

AnneNeville wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

AnneNeville wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure from that review why Rey Skywalker would be dead post-Bloodline. Overall it seems like the information given will tend to affirm people's currently existing beliefs.

@AnneNeville
Also this:

Spoiler:

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, though I can see the theories coming that since he keeps his life very private, of course Leia and Han and the world don't know about Lil'Rey and his Secret Wife.

@AnneNeville

Definitely, I can see Reywalkers arguments rise from "private".

@Darth_Awakened

It has already begun.

@AnneNeville

Really? Do not call surprised though. They tend to grab anything...like someone who drowns.

I can see Rey's story clearly now..... Luke "the myth" Skywalker who doesn't know if he is straight or gay goes to the cantina and has a one night stand. Then a few months later (depending on which alien species) Rey magically appears. Then Leia "the lesser" Skywalker sends her murderous son to train with Luke. Luke foresees that his murderous nephew is going to kill everybody decides to save his little daughter (and not the rest of his students), takes her to a desert planet bordering the unknown regions and leaves her with Unkar Plutt to scavenge for a living. Then he returns as if nothing happened, continues to train his students and space-skype his sister for a few years. Now now, his precious super powerful force goddess daughter is back to find her missing father, finish her training and kill her evil cousin (who gets more evil and ugly with every passing second)    

....besides, Ben would know if he had a little cousin running around. Yes, and Leia and Luke are connected through the force...they'd know stuff about each other. Leia being his only family, Luke would confide in her