ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 6

Xylo Ren wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:

As many of us suspected, it's canon (this is from junior novelization) that Rey looked back to see if Kylo was rescued and alive.

@BastilaBey

Yet another thing we were right about?

@Xylo Ren

OMG, your hot OG Spock gifs are killing me...

@Maria Antonietta LOL!!

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:Oh I left Facebook. For being stalked. By a girl! Can you believe that? Facebook is not my thing anymore, no privacy at all. Some strange people in this world.
I <3 Kylo too much, that's my problem lol

@Little_Boots

WHAT. GIRL.

@Maria Antonietta

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:

As many of us suspected, it's canon (this is from junior novelization) that Rey looked back to see if Kylo was rescued and alive.

@BastilaBey

Yet another thing we were right about?

@Xylo Ren

OMG, your hot OG Spock gifs are killing me...

@spacebaby45678

It's a Spock day.

Here, have another:

Woo-hoo! We were right! Canon! She looked back for him. Ha!

Anyway, something became clear to me while swimming. This is why some American fans have issues with Rey and Kylo romance - they are not trained to accept real villain and heroine romance because they are fed sanitized trash such as vegan vampires, Angel/Angelus, any YA book/TV show where heroine meets Former Villain Who's Now Helping Good Guys And Moping About His Eeevil Past. In short, all those characters are made with ROTJ goggles - they give you a cheat first, which is that you meet him when he's turned good and helping destroy evil, so that you have no trouble accepting his evil past now that you've seen his good present/future.It's a cheat. It's the reason why Buffy/Angel is despised. You are given good guy shtick and than told his story in reverse because "presently good guy" goggles make his evil deeds less impactful, just like Anakin's evil deeds didn't have as shocking impact as they should cause you knew how the story ended and that absolved him. Angel was absolved because Buffy met him when he was good. With Spike, there was no such cheat and that is why the romance is highly regarded. He was a bad MOFO when she met him and stayed like that for long time giving good guys hell. No cheat.

Rey and Kylo are like Buffy and Spike. he's a bad MOFO, she meets him while he's bad and witnesses his worst act - patricide. No sugar coating. He's bad, kidnaps her, interrogates her, kills his father, puts her BFF in coma. There are no cute kid goggles (coughAnakincough) or redemption in the future goggles (coughAnakincough) or vegan vampire goggles (coughEdwardcough) or presently good and helping good guys destroy the bad guys (coughAngelcoughVampireBillcough). Some audience simply isn't trained that such pairing is possible, can be compelling and even progressive for the female character.

Finn is actually a character who partly falls into sugarcoated bad guy whom heroine meets when he's already turned good. Rey meets Finn after he's already left FO and saved Poe. And he was never a bad guy to begin with but Diet Storm Trooper or STINO (Storm Trooper in Name Only). And yes, he moped about his past a bit too("trained to do one thing but I made my choice"). Which may be why they mistook him and Rey for romantic couple. They recognize the trope but, unlike Finn and Rey who lost all tension and conflict immediately, even those sanitized characters provide tension because of the risk that they'll turn bad again (which they do for dramatic effect).

vaderito wrote:Woo-hoo! We were right! Canon! She looked back for him. Ha!

Anyway, something became clear to me while swimming. This is why some American fans have issues with Rey and Kylo romance - they are not trained to accept real villain and heroine romance because they are fed sanitized trash such as vegan vampires, Angel/Angelus, any YA book/TV show where heroine meets Former Villain Who's Now Helping Good Guys And Moping About His Eeevil Past. In short, all those characters are made with ROTJ goggles - they give you a cheat first, which is that you meet him when he's turned good and helping destroy evil, so that you have no trouble accepting his evil past now that you've seen his good present/future.It's a cheat. It's the reason why Buffy/Angel is despised. You are given good guy shtick and than told his story in reverse because "presently good guy" goggles make his evil deeds less impactful, just like Anakin's evil deeds didn't have as shocking impact as they should cause you knew how the story ended and that absolved him. Angel was absolved because Buffy met him when he was good. With Spike, there was no such cheat and that is why the romance is highly regarded. He was a bad MOFO when she met him and stayed like that for long time giving good guys hell. No cheat.

Rey and Kylo are like Buffy and Spike. he's a bad MOFO, she meets him while he's bad and witnesses his worst act - patricide. No sugar coating. He's bad, kidnaps her, interrogates her, kills his father, puts her BFF in coma. There are no cute kid goggles (coughAnakincough) or redemption in the future goggles (coughAnakincough) or vegan vampire goggles (coughEdwardcough) or presently good and helping good guys destroy the bad guys (coughAngelcoughVampireBillcough). Some audience simply isn't trained that such pairing is possible, can be compelling and even progressive for the female character.

Finn is actually a character who partly falls into sugarcoated bad guy whom heroine meets when he's already turned good. Rey meets Finn after he's already left FO and saved Poe. And he was never a bad guy to begin with but Diet Storm Trooper or STINO (Storm Trooper in Name Only). And yes, he moped about his past a bit too("trained to do one thing but I made my choice"). Which may be why they mistook him and Rey for romantic couple. They recognize the trope but, unlike Finn and Rey who lost all tension and conflict immediately, even those sanitized characters provide tension because of the risk that they'll turn bad again (which they do for dramatic effect).

@vaderito

I agree I think authors are afraid to actually make their heroine fall in love with a villian who's truly a villian at the beggining of the story because they have to deal with some truly complex and difficult things like having the heroien fall in love with him in a realistic way,build a redemption story for the villian,etc.These kind of storylines would be much more interesting to tell and creat real conflict and drama but many of them just aren't capable of doing it right or simply don't bother trying so they choose the eaiser way.
You can see the difference between Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike so clear.One was treated as a melodarmatic Romeo and Juliet crap where Buffy was never able to accept that Angel and Angelus were the same person(sorry for the people who ship them together they aways seemed super cheesy and shallow to me) while the latter was played out was messy,complicated,passionate and mature relationship where Buffy and Spike saw each other as who they truly were and were inspired to be better pople and to keep fighting by one another.
But yes this si deffinatly a huge reason why some of the audience ended up beliving Finnrey was endgame while people from countries like Ausia who love wuxia romances recognzied the signs in a posisble romance between Reylo.

CienaRee wrote:

vaderito wrote:Woo-hoo! We were right! Canon! She looked back for him. Ha!

Anyway, something became clear to me while swimming. This is why some American fans have issues with Rey and Kylo romance - they are not trained to accept real villain and heroine romance because they are fed sanitized trash such as vegan vampires, Angel/Angelus, any YA book/TV show where heroine meets Former Villain Who's Now Helping Good Guys And Moping About His Eeevil Past. In short, all those characters are made with ROTJ goggles - they give you a cheat first, which is that you meet him when he's turned good and helping destroy evil, so that you have no trouble accepting his evil past now that you've seen his good present/future.It's a cheat. It's the reason why Buffy/Angel is despised. You are given good guy shtick and than told his story in reverse because "presently good guy" goggles make his evil deeds less impactful, just like Anakin's evil deeds didn't have as shocking impact as they should cause you knew how the story ended and that absolved him. Angel was absolved because Buffy met him when he was good. With Spike, there was no such cheat and that is why the romance is highly regarded. He was a bad MOFO when she met him and stayed like that for long time giving good guys hell. No cheat.

Rey and Kylo are like Buffy and Spike. he's a bad MOFO, she meets him while he's bad and witnesses his worst act - patricide. No sugar coating. He's bad, kidnaps her, interrogates her, kills his father, puts her BFF in coma. There are no cute kid goggles (coughAnakincough) or redemption in the future goggles (coughAnakincough) or vegan vampire goggles (coughEdwardcough) or presently good and helping good guys destroy the bad guys (coughAngelcoughVampireBillcough). Some audience simply isn't trained that such pairing is possible, can be compelling and even progressive for the female character.

Finn is actually a character who partly falls into sugarcoated bad guy whom heroine meets when he's already turned good. Rey meets Finn after he's already left FO and saved Poe. And he was never a bad guy to begin with but Diet Storm Trooper or STINO (Storm Trooper in Name Only). And yes, he moped about his past a bit too("trained to do one thing but I made my choice"). Which may be why they mistook him and Rey for romantic couple. They recognize the trope but, unlike Finn and Rey who lost all tension and conflict immediately, even those sanitized characters provide tension because of the risk that they'll turn bad again (which they do for dramatic effect).

@vaderito

I agree I think authors are afraid to actually make their heroine fall in love with a villian who's truly a villian at the beggining of the story because they have to deal with some truly complex and difficult things like having the heroien fall in love with him in a realistic way,build a redemption story for the villian,etc.These kind of storylines would be much more interesting to tell and creat real conflict and drama but many of them just aren't capable of doing it right or simply don't bother trying so they choose the eaiser way.
You can see the difference between Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike so clear.One was treated as a melodarmatic Romeo and Juliet crap where Buffy was never able to accept that Angel and Angelus were the same person(sorry for the people who ship them together they aways seemed super cheesy and shallow to me) while the latter was played out was messy,complicated,passionate and mature relationship where Buffy and Spike saw each other as who they truly were and were inspired to be better pople and to keep fighting by one another.
But yes this si deffinatly a huge reason why some of the audience ended up beliving Finnrey was endgame while people from countries like Ausia who love wuxia romances recognzied the signs in a posisble romance between Reylo.

@CienaRee

I'm rewatching Buffy on a daily basis (it's being broadcast every week day here in the UK on Syfy and we've just got to series 3). And you can totally see the melodramatic way Buffy/Angel is played out. With all the dream sequences set against soft lighting and soppy music.

I can't remember what I thought about it all when it first aired, especially Buffy/Angel - but now with more life experience under my belt I can see that the whole Buffy/Angel romance was sweet/tender/first love type thing (of course with an added element of supernatural!!)

What I do recall is that once they get onto Buffy/Spike it'll be a grown up/real/passionate/complex/complicated/compromising relationship that is more true to the characters - because they are still effectively who they are - she's still a slayer and he's still a vampire.

And let's not even mention Riley!!!

I'm sorry I don't even know what I'm saying or if I'm even making a single bit of sense!!!

vaderito wrote:Woo-hoo! We were right! Canon! She looked back for him. Ha!

Anyway, something became clear to me while swimming. This is why some American fans have issues with Rey and Kylo romance - they are not trained to accept real villain and heroine romance because they are fed sanitized trash such as vegan vampires, Angel/Angelus, any YA book/TV show where heroine meets Former Villain Who's Now Helping Good Guys And Moping About His Eeevil Past. In short, all those characters are made with ROTJ goggles - they give you a cheat first, which is that you meet him when he's turned good and helping destroy evil, so that you have no trouble accepting his evil past now that you've seen his good present/future.It's a cheat. It's the reason why Buffy/Angel is despised. You are given good guy shtick and than told his story in reverse because "presently good guy" goggles make his evil deeds less impactful, just like Anakin's evil deeds didn't have as shocking impact as they should cause you knew how the story ended and that absolved him. Angel was absolved because Buffy met him when he was good. With Spike, there was no such cheat and that is why the romance is highly regarded. He was a bad MOFO when she met him and stayed like that for long time giving good guys hell. No cheat.

Rey and Kylo are like Buffy and Spike. he's a bad MOFO, she meets him while he's bad and witnesses his worst act - patricide. No sugar coating. He's bad, kidnaps her, interrogates her, kills his father, puts her BFF in coma. There are no cute kid goggles (coughAnakincough) or redemption in the future goggles (coughAnakincough) or vegan vampire goggles (coughEdwardcough) or presently good and helping good guys destroy the bad guys (coughAngelcoughVampireBillcough). Some audience simply isn't trained that such pairing is possible, can be compelling and even progressive for the female character.

Finn is actually a character who partly falls into sugarcoated bad guy whom heroine meets when he's already turned good. Rey meets Finn after he's already left FO and saved Poe. And he was never a bad guy to begin with but Diet Storm Trooper or STINO (Storm Trooper in Name Only). And yes, he moped about his past  a bit too("trained to do one thing but I made my choice"). Which may be why they mistook him and Rey for romantic couple. They recognize the trope but, unlike Finn and Rey who lost all tension and conflict immediately, even those sanitized characters provide tension because of the risk that they'll turn bad again (which they do for dramatic effect).

@vaderito

Brilliant!!! And I LOL-ed at the "STINO"! :-)

@rogue Rey my husband is currently watching Buffy for the first time and just finished season 2. He thinks angel is a sap and I so want to tell him about Spike but no spoilers! They are much more interesting to watch together. Also David boreanaz is just not as good an actor imo.

@Rogue Rey Riley Finn.

BastilaBey wrote:@rogue Rey my husband is currently watching Buffy for the first time and just finished season 2. He thinks angel is a sap and I so want to tell him about Spike but no spoilers! They are much more interesting to watch together. Also David boreanaz is just not as good an actor imo.

@BastilaBey

I know right - David is I guess pretty to look at (if he's your kind of man) but as for acting - nope. His Irish accent was so leprechaun fake it hurt my ears and I'm not even Irish lol

I don't like to sound mean but there is no spark from him at all - I think his best scenes did come when he went 'bad' due to the gypsy curse at the end of series 2, but overall he's as interesting as a ditchwater.

Now as for Spike, when he's on screen James Marsters commands the camera. I actually loved him with Drusilla They just buzzed off one another.

Xylo Ren wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:

As many of us suspected, it's canon (this is from junior novelization) that Rey looked back to see if Kylo was rescued and alive.

@BastilaBey

Yet another thing we were right about?

@Xylo Ren

OMG, your hot OG Spock gifs are killing me...

@spacebaby45678

It's a Spock day.

Here, have another:

@Xylo Ren

All time favorite Bad Spock, with goatee, shades of Reylo

I wasn't quite sure where to post this idea, so I'm posting it here, since this is kind of the catch-all Reylo thread.

You know how some of us are wondering about the "murderers" part of Kylo's "traitors, murderers, and thieves" line?

Could the "murderers possibly refer to...

Bloodline spoiler:

Just a probably crazy theory...

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I wasn't quite sure where to post this idea, so I'm posting it here, since this is kind of the catch-all Reylo thread.

You know how some of us are wondering about the "murderers" part of Kylo's "traitors, murderers, and thieves" line?

Could the "murderers possibly refer to...

Bloodline spoiler:

Just a probably crazy theory...

@ISeeAnIsland

yeah, that didn't sit well with Leia either. That line is interesting and underrated. or maybe by murderers he meant Finn the traitor shooting his fellow Storm Troopers?

@MeadowofAshes






So final phase, after She Wants to Kill Him and He Wants to Kill Her, will be




"silly world going to pieces around us" always gets me because it's really Snow Fight and world literally going to pieces around them.

Rogue Rey wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:@rogue Rey my husband is currently watching Buffy for the first time and just finished season 2. He thinks angel is a sap and I so want to tell him about Spike but no spoilers! They are much more interesting to watch together. Also David boreanaz is just not as good an actor imo.

@BastilaBey

I know right - David is I guess pretty to look at (if he's your kind of man) but as for acting - nope. His Irish accent was so leprechaun fake it hurt my ears and I'm not even Irish lol

I don't like to sound mean but there is no spark from him at all - I think his best scenes did come when he went 'bad' due to the gypsy curse at the end of series 2, but overall he's as interesting as a ditchwater.

Now as for Spike, when he's on screen James Marsters commands the camera. I actually loved him with Drusilla They just buzzed off one another.

@Rogue Rey

I've never watched Buffy, so I can't say either way. I think people like David on Bones quite a bit. He might be better made for light comedy.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Rogue Rey wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:@rogue Rey my husband is currently watching Buffy for the first time and just finished season 2. He thinks angel is a sap and I so want to tell him about Spike but no spoilers! They are much more interesting to watch together. Also David boreanaz is just not as good an actor imo.

@BastilaBey

I know right - David is I guess pretty to look at (if he's your kind of man) but as for acting - nope.  His Irish accent was so leprechaun fake it hurt my ears and I'm not even Irish lol

I don't like to sound mean but there is no spark from him at all - I think his best scenes did come when he went 'bad' due to the gypsy curse at the end of series 2, but overall he's as interesting as a ditchwater.

Now as for Spike, when he's on screen James Marsters commands the camera.  I actually loved him with Drusilla They just buzzed off one another.

@Rogue Rey

I've never watched Buffy, so I can't say either way.  I think people like David on Bones quite a bit.  He might be better made for light comedy.

@SoloSideCousin
Spike stole the entire show with his presence, humour, drama, everything. His interactions with every character were pure gold, but especially with Buffy.

This is Angel:


This is Spike:

@FrolickingFizzgig

I've never even watched Buffy, but just with these clips, I can totally see the difference and what you people have been talking about.

Like Angel and Buffy are sort of cute, but kind of cheesy? Well, really cheesy? While there is definitely something between Spike and Buffy? And heck, I've only seen three clips.

Buffy and Spike were EPIC. Rey and Kylo have all ingredients to become just as epic or more (cause cinema vs TV), fingers crossed they pull it off. When Kylo confesses his love for Rey is going to be incredible.

I loved Angel/Buffy as the first love type of story. They did well to stop it after Season 3 though as it ran its course by that point. It's true, David Boreanaz' acting wasn't always spot-on, but I always liked Angel's somewhat dorky quality.

Spike I thought was fantastic in the early seasons, but I enjoyed him much more as a bit player who added spice and edge to the show. Generally, I felt like the Season 4 soured me on the show and characters so badly I just couldn't love it the same way again.

vaderito wrote:Buffy and Spike were EPIC. Rey and Kylo have all ingredients to become just as epic or more (cause cinema vs TV), fingers crossed they pull it off. When Kylo confesses his love for Rey is going to be incredible.

@vaderito

And hopefully at the point that this happens, through competent story telling and narrative; the writers will have the audience exactly where they want them. Rooting for her to love him back.

Xylo Ren wrote:

vaderito wrote:Buffy and Spike were EPIC. Rey and Kylo have all ingredients to become just as epic or more (cause cinema vs TV), fingers crossed they pull it off. When Kylo confesses his love for Rey is going to be incredible.

@vaderito

And hopefully at the point that this happens, through competent story telling and narrative; the writers will have the audience exactly where they want them. Rooting for her to love him back.

@Xylo Ren

Exactly.

Could Kylo's command shuttle be a represented for Hades's bident

Xylo Ren wrote:

vaderito wrote:Buffy and Spike were EPIC. Rey and Kylo have all ingredients to become just as epic or more (cause cinema vs TV), fingers crossed they pull it off. When Kylo confesses his love for Rey is going to be incredible.

@vaderito

And hopefully at the point that this happens, through competent story telling and narrative; the writers will have the audience exactly where they want them. Rooting for her to love him back.

@Xylo Ren

And that's really the short-term goal here. It's not to get him to a point where he's fully redeemed/atoned. It's to get him to a point where the audience is rooting for him and pulling for him to have her reciprocate his feelings.

@Sylvia Snow It's his grandpa shuttle but painted black, cause black cars are the coolest. But it does fit into Hades/Persephone unintentionally.

vaderito wrote:@Sylvia Snow It's his grandpa shuttle but painted black, cause black cars are the coolest. But it does fit into Hades/Persephone unintentionally.

@vaderito

I thought his shut was a new update from Vader's. Upsilon class compare to Lambda class.

This is Vader and Palpatine shuttle, I think