ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 8

WhatGirl wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

WhatGirl wrote:@Rimfaxe96

I had to calm myself down before replying, because I almost went full fangirl right there. My original message would not have been coherent.

But... oh my goodness. That intense look on his face that goes by so quickly on-screen. It's pure acting brilliance. Kylo is desperate to end the fight... not only this particular battle but to essentially become allies with her and teach her about the Force. All of the subtle hints scattered throughout the film ultimately lead to this moment - a complete shock to some, confirmation to others.

@WhatGirl

It's very difficult for me not to fangirl over this either. This was the moment I fell into the great Abyss of Reylo, hook line and sinker. It was my first viewing, and I was just done. I haven't stopped thinking about it since.

@IoJovi

LOL! I also fell into it on my very first viewing. I walked in knowing almost nothing about the film and I was already shipping them before even the snow fight. If you had asked me why at the time, I wouldn't have been able to explain it. Kylo is just so dangerously seductive and his scenes with Rey so charged with sexual chemistry I couldn't not want them together!

@WhatGirl

I thought he was dead sexy before he ever unmasked. I had no idea what he looked like under there. He could have looked like Greedo for all I knew. His voice was incredibly seductive, and the way he moved was just....I don't have the words to describe it. That character was most definitely designed with the female audience in mind, I'm sure of it!

When he unmasked for Rey, my initial reaction was of course, that's the son of Han Solo! He wouldn't look any other way.

Going back to the teacher moment, it wasn't just a matter of shipping - it solidified the story trajectory for me. Throughout the movie, I was wondering if Rey would end up with Finn, even if I wasn't really feeling it. Then the final snow fight happened and Kylo Ren made his offer. I even remember my thoughts during that moment. "With him?!"

Those are the words that were echoing through my head, and I was loving every minute of it.

WhatGirl wrote:LOL! I also fell into it on my very first viewing. I walked in knowing almost nothing about the film and I was already shipping them before even the snow fight. If you had asked me why at the time, I wouldn't have been able to explain it. Kylo is just so dangerously seductive and his scenes with Rey so charged with sexual chemistry I couldn't not want them together!

@WhatGirl

Same here. Only that I was reluctant to believe what I saw and went to watch the movie 7 more times. I just couldn't believe my eyes.
Then I went home, got on the internet and saw that a tremendous amount of other people had also seen what I've seen.
And well, here I am.

I would actually be interested in seeing a fandom-wide poll to gauge what reactions were more popular amongst people who followed news and spoilers pre-release vs. people who went into the theatre totally spoiler and expectation free. I knew nothing about this film when I first saw it, and I wonder if that made it easier for me to take in the story from a sort of "blank slate" perspective?

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I would actually be interested in seeing a fandom-wide poll to gauge what reactions were more popular amongst people who followed news and spoilers pre-release vs. people who went into the theatre totally spoiler and expectation free. I knew nothing about this film when I first saw it, and I wonder if that made it easier for me to take in the story from a sort of "blank slate" perspective?

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm a lot like you in this regard, although I am a huge fan of the OT.  I purposely avoided spoilers like the plague, and followed zero marketing.  I knew the new actors faces, but I didn't know their characters' names.  I didn't know Han died.  The ONLY thing I had heard was that Luke might be Kylo Ren, due to him not being seen in the trailer.

I wouldn't doubt preconceived notions plays into which camp one falls into (Reywalker vs Reylo).  

I would definitely be interested in seeing that poll as well.

IoJovi wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I would actually be interested in seeing a fandom-wide poll to gauge what reactions were more popular amongst people who followed news and spoilers pre-release vs. people who went into the theatre totally spoiler and expectation free. I knew nothing about this film when I first saw it, and I wonder if that made it easier for me to take in the story from a sort of "blank slate" perspective?

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm a lot like you in this regard, although I am a huge fan of the OT.  I purposely avoided spoilers like the plague, and followed zero marketing.  I knew the new actors faces, but I didn't know their characters' names.  I didn't know Han died.  The ONLY thing I had heard was that Luke might be Kylo Ren, due to him not being seen in the trailer.

I wouldn't doubt preconceived notions plays into which camp one falls into (Reywalker vs Reylo).  

I would definitely be interested in seeing that poll as well.

@IoJovi

Same here for all of this. I was one of the few I knew who didn't have Han's death spoiled (although I had a gut feeling that was going to happen, knowing that Harrison had wanted to kill Han a long time ago, and he just seemed a bit too enthusiastic during the promos).

I had seen both trailers, and based off of the "the force runs strong in my family" red herring, I did go in thinking that she was Luke's daughter. In fact, I left the theatre the first time just thinking that Kylo was creepy and that Rey was Luke's daughter... Everything moved so fast that most of my concentration was on simply following the action.

But the SECOND time...it was like, "There's no way in hell she's Luke's daughter! OMG! Kylo totally wants to shag her! Those two had insane chemistry! OMG! I can't believe they're going there with a Star Wars movie! Let's check the internet and see if I'm insane."

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I would actually be interested in seeing a fandom-wide poll to gauge what reactions were more popular amongst people who followed news and spoilers pre-release vs. people who went into the theatre totally spoiler and expectation free. I knew nothing about this film when I first saw it, and I wonder if that made it easier for me to take in the story from a sort of "blank slate" perspective?

@FrolickingFizzgig

I loved the OT as a kid but my interest cooled around the time I was 12, so the PT and this announcement weren't terribly exciting to me. Thanks to Facebook, everybody I knew went to see it right after the release date and posted about it (spoiler free). My response was "that's nice, I'm glad that they enjoyed it." But I wasn't terribly interested in seeing it. I waited until l late February and even then, that was thanks to a couple of "well it's a total re-hash, but it's still fun and awesome the hero is a girl" (Rey being the lead was the one thing I was spoiled on) comments from friends. And even then it was an excuse to skip my strength training routine at the gym. I sort of knew that Han & Leia had a kid who'd gone bad and who kills his dad. Otherwise zero expectations.  The whole run up to their finally meeting and then everything that happened after, I immediately was like "why does this remind me of George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez locked in a car trunk in Out of Sight?" and pretty much what @ISeeAnIsland said above.

I went back the following Saturday (and went to the gym on Sunday) to re-confirm what I saw, despite what a zillion fanboys Redacted had already been posting for over 2 months before it was even on my radar. The part that sucks is that I avoided all of the insanity with the initial release, like people scrambling for tickets, the grandma who stopped me when I was going to see Brooklyn b/c she was trying to find anybody who'd sell their tickets so she could take her granddaughters, the huge a** lines, noisy audience members, etc. And now that I really want to get to the next chapter because that was *the* cliffhanger as far I'm concerned, now I'm like "Goddammit, I don't want to deal with all the crowds and insanity. But now I also don't want to wait another 2 months again before I see it and at least get some confirmation/answers."

I'm also curious to know how many people who saw some form of "Reylo" dynamic between Rey and Kylo in TFA actively sought spoilers before TFA was released. It seems like a lot of us didn't see any spoilers, or very few of them.

Before I saw TFA, I was very spolier free (except for a friend telling me he heard a rumor that the villain and one of the heroes might be long lost siblings). I didn't know about Han's death either, although I also had a feeling something tragic would happen to someone important (it always does). As I watched it, I had a feeling something would happen to Han.

I knew very little about Kylo's character before TFA and didn't pay much attention to him (I remember his toys, etc were released before TFA and seeing a couple kids dressed like him at Disney's Halloween party at Disney World in Oct. 2015 and thinking it was weird for them to dress like a character we know nothing about yet). That makes me laugh now because if I only knew what I was going to think about Kylo in two months time...

I found him attractive in his first scene when I saw him stomp out of his shuttle (the walk/body language, the voice, the body and outfit), and I grew to like him more as the movie progressed. However, I wasn't looking to ship him with anyone and I didn't think of him and Rey like that until I saw their interactions together. The chemistry was so loaded and tense I thought there's got to be more to these two. I didn't say anything to anyone because all I heard after watching TFA were people prattling on about how Rey is Luke's long lost daughter. That always seemed hard for me to shallow though.

I was convinced on my second viewing that Rey and Kylo's relationship is not just very important, but probably the most narratively important one in the ST.

I was very spoiler free. I didn't know about Han dying or Rey/Kylo. I saw a poster with finn and thought maybe they would have a stormtroopers turned jedi. I knew Kylo was the new Darth Vader in the series but I didn't suspect he was related to han and Leia.

Totally spoiler free. I purposely avoided anything to do with the movie on the internet until the trailers because I wanted to go in without any expectations after the prequels.

Count me as another who was relatively unspoiled. I don't think that everyone who avoided it sees reylo, but it does sort of give you a blank slate where if you don't assume they're related, you have to figure there's going to be some other kind of connection between the force sensitive protagonist and her antagonist.

As I was watching, even though everything moved so quickly, I couldn't help but feel like everything was lining up for these two to meet. It was almost fated, with her seeing him in a vision and he being so focused on 'the girl' even though he was supposedly after the droid for the map. The map clearly wasn't really the point, lol. And then as soon as he carried her I was like ok, here is the story.

Because I've been a fan of Girls since season one, I knew full well how charming Adam Driver can be, even as he's simultaneously unlikeable and making terrible, selfish choices. I'd also seen the vanity fair spread so knew they were going to have him unmask at some point, and when he did that for Rey, it again pointed towards their dynamic as meaningful. No way on earth are these two remaining enemies.

Spoiler free going into TFA too. The only rumours I heard was the opening would have a hand floating in space then land on a planet.

Before I saw the Reylo dots I thought it was good but was able to wait for VIII. Post Reylo, I'm like Rey marking everyday until DEC 2017 LOL.

Darth Dementor wrote:Spoiler free going into TFA too. The only rumours I heard was the opening would have a hand floating in space then land on a planet.

Before I saw the Reylo dots I thought it was good but was able to wait for VIII. Post Reylo, I'm like Rey marking everyday until DEC 2017 LOL.

@Darth Dementor

Uh yeah, same here. I didn't put together why their interactions read weird to me on the first viewing and I was content to wait until 8. Once I figured it out, I became really impatient about 8 coming out. I know what's going to happen in broad strokes and the mystery to me is how it's going to get there and what's up with the Force connection they seem to share even before the interrogation.

I knew nothing. Zero. I wasn't even a "for real" SW fan.
I mean I liked the films but that was where it ended. So I was pretty much GA.
My friends and I watched TFA after it came out on DVD just for giggles (that's why I was so late to this). I was suspicious of a thing going on with Rey and Kylo when the bridal carry happened- but I was still under the impression of Reywalker at the time so I did end up dismissing it. I was sold on it during the interrogation scene, for far too many reasons to list. Then finally the snow fight was the last nod that made me reeaaally convinced and bothered by what I saw. Seriously. The mesmerized and twitterpated Kylo when Rey calls his old lightsaber to her, the intense and charged staring, and the "You need a teacher!" that sounded more like a plea for her to stay with him. Yeah, I was seriously freaked because cousins should not have any of that shenanigans going on.
I needed validation of what I saw because I had kept my trap shut after the film and talked myself into the vortex of doom making myself think I imagined the whole thing. Clearly not thank goodness.

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

And he sounds and looks beseeching when he says this to her.  I don't see how anyone could interpret it as aggressive.

I was almost completely spoiler-free.  I knew Han got killed.  I don't think I had seen Driver's face prior to the unmasking.  I fell for him when I saw the first **preview trailer** that he was in, where he is walking away from the camera in the woods on SKB and ignites that saber like he's about to throw down.

I was hook, line, and sinker for that bad boy from the word go.

I first thought there were interesting developments between him and Rey from the bridal carry.

Slade wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

@Slade

"Well actually Rey, the Force blah blah blah..."

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Slade wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

@Slade

"Well actually Rey, the Force blah blah blah..."

@MeadowofAshes & @Slade

Hahahaha! I have read some comment about him being a bit of a Mansplainer in that moment & getting his a** kicked in response. He doesn't come off to me (the card carrying feminist killjoy) as a Mansplainer, more like an overenthusiatic nerd to meet somebody with the same powers as him. Especially one who's a totally cute girl. I will definitely laugh if they do finally have a moment when he does repeat @MeadowofAshes above line. She'll probably roll her eyes in response.

snufkin wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Slade wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

@Slade

"Well actually Rey, the Force blah blah blah..."

@MeadowofAshes & @Slade

Hahahaha! I have read some comment about him being a bit of a Mansplainer in that moment & getting his a** kicked in response. He doesn't come off to me (the card carrying feminist killjoy) as a Mansplainer, more like an overenthusiatic nerd to meet somebody with the same powers as him. Especially one who's a totally cute girl. I will definitely laugh if they do finally have a moment when he does repeat @MeadowofAshes above line.  She'll probably roll her eyes in response.

@snufkin

Me neither.  I'm a total battle-ax feminist and I didn't get the slightest whiff of mansplaining.  He *does* have knowledge to impart to her (at least at that point of the story).  Offering to do so isn't mansplaining (some people might not like it for other reasons, but whatever).

Either way, my biggest takeaway from that line was that he wanted to show her more than just the Force.

It's in part meant to remind the audience of the euphemism "ways of the world" and no one can convince me otherwise.

Slade wrote:
@snufkin

Me neither.  I'm a total battle-ax feminist and I didn't get the slightest whiff of mansplaining.  He *does* have knowledge to impart to her (at least at that point of the story).  Offering to do so isn't mansplaining (some people might not like it for other reasons, but whatever).

@Slade - I sort of figure the point of him getting his a** hauled back to Snoke for whatever Evil Boot Camp is in store for him is something he'll eventually teach her and that they'll need to eventually save the day.

MeadowofAshes wrote:Either way, my biggest takeaway from that line was that he wanted to show her more than just the Force.

It's in part meant to remind the audience of the euphemism "ways of the world" and no one can convince me otherwise.

@MeadowofAshes

Definitely. Especially re-watching Empire Strikes Back when Han's offer is to show Leia how to be a woman (which we know led to somebody else's existence).

Slade wrote:

snufkin wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Slade wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

@Slade

"Well actually Rey, the Force blah blah blah..."

@MeadowofAshes & @Slade

Hahahaha! I have read some comment about him being a bit of a Mansplainer in that moment & getting his a** kicked in response. He doesn't come off to me (the card carrying feminist killjoy) as a Mansplainer, more like an overenthusiatic nerd to meet somebody with the same powers as him. Especially one who's a totally cute girl. I will definitely laugh if they do finally have a moment when he does repeat @MeadowofAshes above line.  She'll probably roll her eyes in response.

@snufkin

Me neither.  I'm a total battle-ax feminist and I didn't get the slightest whiff of mansplaining.  He *does* have knowledge to impart to her (at least at that point of the story).  Offering to do so isn't mansplaining (some people might not like it for other reasons, but whatever).

@Slade
People like that hate the character for totally different reasons and make bizarre attempts to rationalize their hatred into something they deem "progressive". If it's progressive it can't possibly be wrong, and anybody who disagrees is by definition anti-feminist, a misogynist, a white man or a woman who has been crushed into subservience as the result of being raised in a "patriarchal" culture (a.k.a. the 9th circle of hell). I think our current era has proven time and again that you can go too far with "feminism" (the kind that isn't actually feminism at all and involves a directing a good deal of hate at the opposite gender). You'll be able to spot them in an instant because they'll write articles exactly like that. Can't wait for them to get bitten in the a** by real writers' intent, good storytelling and real feminism.

snufkin wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Slade wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

@Slade

"Well actually Rey, the Force blah blah blah..."

@MeadowofAshes & @Slade

Hahahaha! I have read some comment about him being a bit of a Mansplainer in that moment & getting his a** kicked in response. He doesn't come off to me (the card carrying feminist killjoy) as a Mansplainer, more like an overenthusiatic nerd to meet somebody with the same powers as him. Especially one who's a totally cute girl. I will definitely laugh if they do finally have a moment when he does repeat @MeadowofAshes above line. She'll probably roll her eyes in response.

@snufkin

The first half of that article was pretty spot on, but when they got to the part about Kylo Ren's characterization, they lost me. You Need A Teacher was NOT mansplaining. It was a moment of desperation on his behalf that read closer to "Stay with me." She also addresses his "toxic masculinity", which I couldn't disagree with more. That character actually has a lot of qualities that can be coded as feminine. Yes, he shows anger, but he also cries and arguably shows more emotion than any other character in the franchise.

The author also seems to be under the impression that the remainder of the trilogy will be Rey, Finn and co. battling to take down the evil Kylo Ren, which couldn't be further off the mark.

snufkin wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:Either way, my biggest takeaway from that line was that he wanted to show her more than just the Force.

It's in part meant to remind the audience of the euphemism "ways of the world" and no one can convince me otherwise.

@MeadowofAshes

Definitely. Especially re-watching Empire Strikes Back when Han's offer is to show Leia how to be a woman (which we know led to somebody else's existence).

@snufkin

You don't even need the deleted scene for sexual innuendo. ESB is dirty but in a way only adults pick up on. Leia tells him being held by him isn't enough to get her excited and he says he's sorry he doesn't have time for anything else. LOL. And then on Cloud City he looks like he wants to eat her face when he talks about their companions wondering what they're "up to". Han Solo is a dirty scoundrel and Ben does not fall too far from the tree.

IoJovi wrote:

snufkin wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Slade wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Finally found a more detailed picture on tumblr of the crossed-lightsabers-scene; they moved the camera way too fast to really see it without pausing all the time in the movie:



That gaze. That oh so intense gaze - and there's definitely far more than just pure aggression.
(As for the message in the picture - the anon is right; don't know if he or she read the book(s) but they describe his offer as being said 'beseechingly'.)

@Rimfaxe96

snufkin wrote:One of my first posts on here -- that moment confirmed my suspicions because I've had that move pulled on me by so many men. Whether it's they mean well or are being annoying, it's always a definite sign of interest in a woman.

@snufkin

Lol oh dear, Kylo wants to mansplain the Force to her!

@Slade

"Well actually Rey, the Force blah blah blah..."

@MeadowofAshes & @Slade

Hahahaha! I have read some comment about him being a bit of a Mansplainer in that moment & getting his a** kicked in response. He doesn't come off to me (the card carrying feminist killjoy) as a Mansplainer, more like an overenthusiatic nerd to meet somebody with the same powers as him. Especially one who's a totally cute girl. I will definitely laugh if they do finally have a moment when he does repeat @MeadowofAshes above line. She'll probably roll her eyes in response.

@snufkin

The first half of that article was pretty spot on, but when they got to the part about Kylo Ren's characterization, they lost me. You Need A Teacher was NOT mansplaining. It was a moment of desperation on his behalf that read closer to "Stay with me." She also addresses his "toxic masculinity", which I couldn't disagree with more. That character actually has a lot of qualities that can be coded as feminine. Yes, he shows anger, but he also cries and arguably shows more emotion than any other character in the franchise.

The author also seems to be under the impression that the remainder of the trilogy will be Rey, Finn and co. battling to take down the evil Kylo Ren, which couldn't be further off the mark.

@IoJovi
It's all well and good to have opinions like that, but the problem is they're clearly founded in real-life struggles that aren't applicable to Star Wars at all. The author completely projected her own world-views onto a fictional character. Her stance on this matter is way off-base from what the writers were actually going for, and nobody can convince me otherwise. Kylo is not some toxic man (the insinuation that masculinity has to be toxic makes me sick to be honest). There is zero emphasis placed on Kylo reacting negatively to Rey being female. He makes a way bigger deal about her being a scavenger, and that's a class issue, not a gender one. Being strong with the Force has absolutely nothing to do with gender, race or even species.