Kiss of F8TE

snufkin wrote:@LadyHa,

Also that Gish photo automatically makes me think of her later classic with Robert Mitchum, Night of the Hunter (still blows my mind that James "Let Us Now Praise Famous Men" Agee wrote the screenplay)

Armadeus wrote:

snufkin wrote:@LadyHa,

Also that Gish photo automatically makes me think of her later classic with Robert Mitchum, Night of the Hunter (still blows my mind that James "Let Us Now Praise Famous Men" Agee wrote the screenplay)

@snufkin

Man, I LOVE Night of the Hunter.

'Shall I tell you the tale of Good and Evil?'

I also love how Cooper just isn't having any of Powell's sith when he starts sobbing over how he missed those kids

snufkin wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

snufkin wrote:@LadyHa,

Also that Gish photo automatically makes me think of her later classic with Robert Mitchum, Night of the Hunter (still blows my mind that James "Let Us Now Praise Famous Men" Agee wrote the screenplay)

@snufkin

Man, I LOVE Night of the Hunter.

'Shall I tell you the tale of Good and Evil?'

I also love how Cooper just isn't having any of Powell's sith when he starts sobbing over how he missed those kids

@Armadeus

I've been known to get too excited in a conversation and quote "Hot dog, love's a winning! Yessirree! It's love that's won, and old left hand hate is down for the count!" only to get the blank stare  :



I haven't watched the Simpsons in a long time, but it always cracked me up how they made sure to put in references to Mitchum's role in Night of the Hunter and Cape Fear every time Sideshow Bob turns up to menace Bart

Armadeus wrote:
@snufkin

Love and Hate. I always think Good and Evil when Powell's tattoos come to mind *facepalm*

It's getting embarrassing

My favourite quote from Hunter is: 'I can feel myself gettin' awful mad.' Delivered in a completely neutral tone. It's both creepy AND funny.

Have you ever read the Nitrate Diva (Blog, also on twitter @NitrateDiva). Lotsa great stuff about the women of the Silent and pre-post Hayes Code era, like Gish and another bad***, Mary Pickford (I have her bio, just haven't read it yet).

"Viewers interpret what happens in this scene in at least two mutually con-
flicting  ways.  Half  the  audience  insists  that  the  scene  must  be  understood  
to  be  suggesting  that  Bogart  and  Bergman  had  slept  together.  The  other  
half deny it with as much vehemence." The viewer constructs one of these
conflicting  hypotheses,  Maltby  explains,  by  disregarding  certain  interpreta-
tive  cues  that  point  towards  the  other.  Maltby's  overarching  point  is  that  
classical Hollywood cinema does not address or construct a model specta-
tor,  but  rather  two  different  viewers:  an  innocent  viewer,  who  knows  that  
certain  things  do  not  happen  in  Hollywood,  and  a  sophisticated  one,  who  
constructs a parallel imagined version not bound by moral regulations. For
our  purposes,  we  can  explain  these  divergent  readings  as  a  result  of  the  
viewer's natural desire to bridge the gap between narrative discourse (em-
pirical  presentation  of  events)  and  story  (metaphysical  truth).

LadyHa wrote:
On the topic of ambiguous and coded sexuality in films, I wanted to share an interesting quote I found on that article I mentioned that discusses The Wind. The following quote actually is about Richard Maltby's analysis of a kiss scene in Casablanca.  

"Viewers interpret what happens in this scene in at least two mutually con-
flicting  ways.  Half  the  audience  insists  that  the  scene  must  be  understood  
to  be  suggesting  that  Bogart  and  Bergman  had  slept  together.  The  other  
half deny it with as much vehemence." The viewer constructs one of these
conflicting  hypotheses,  Maltby  explains,  by  disregarding  certain  interpreta-
tive  cues  that  point  towards  the  other.  Maltby's  overarching  point  is  that  
classical Hollywood cinema does not address or construct a model specta-
tor,  but  rather  two  different  viewers:  an  innocent  viewer,  who  knows  that  
certain  things  do  not  happen  in  Hollywood,  and  a  sophisticated  one,  who  
constructs a parallel imagined version not bound by moral regulations. For
our  purposes,  we  can  explain  these  divergent  readings  as  a  result  of  the  
viewer's natural desire to bridge the gap between narrative discourse (em-
pirical  presentation  of  events)  and  story  (metaphysical  truth).

I'd argue that the same idea applies to TFA.

snufkin wrote:

LadyHa wrote:
On the topic of ambiguous and coded sexuality in films, I wanted to share an interesting quote I found on that article I mentioned that discusses The Wind. The following quote actually is about Richard Maltby's analysis of a kiss scene in Casablanca.  

"Viewers interpret what happens in this scene in at least two mutually con-
flicting  ways.  Half  the  audience  insists  that  the  scene  must  be  understood  
to  be  suggesting  that  Bogart  and  Bergman  had  slept  together.  The  other  
half deny it with as much vehemence." The viewer constructs one of these
conflicting  hypotheses,  Maltby  explains,  by  disregarding  certain  interpreta-
tive  cues  that  point  towards  the  other.  Maltby's  overarching  point  is  that  
classical Hollywood cinema does not address or construct a model specta-
tor,  but  rather  two  different  viewers:  an  innocent  viewer,  who  knows  that  
certain  things  do  not  happen  in  Hollywood,  and  a  sophisticated  one,  who  
constructs a parallel imagined version not bound by moral regulations. For
our  purposes,  we  can  explain  these  divergent  readings  as  a  result  of  the  
viewer's natural desire to bridge the gap between narrative discourse (em-
pirical  presentation  of  events)  and  story  (metaphysical  truth).

I'd argue that the same idea applies to TFA.

@LadyHa

Most definitely in all of their scenes

snufkin wrote:Once again, seriously no tongue after Han basically straight up propositions Leia?! Sure the kids won't clue into what he means exactly other than kissing, no mistaking it re-watching as an adult.

snufkin wrote:@Maria Antonietta - it's funny because it's true. That's essentially his whole "courtship" of her.

@ISeeAnIsland - Is there anything in the MPAA code about open versus closed mouth? True you don't want a family movie to involve too much tongue. But yeah, the lack of tongue when he finally does get to make a move on her is pretty jarring. Besides building up to it with their crazy UST, he's told her that he's DTF.

snufkin wrote:@ISeeAnIsland - Disney will milk a product line for all it's worth. Though not being a fan of Disney, I have no idea if any of their movies feature tongue. Personally I'd say if it's PG-13, they're within boundaries. And again with ESB, pretty ridiculous to not have it after building up that much of an expectation. Ha, also pretty clear way to finally disabuse anybody who thinks that she's Luke's kid of that not going to happen.



Yeah the whole "no tongue, but we'll put you in a metal bikini" part is pretty confusing. Or at least more meant just for a certain demographic.

EDITED: For @armadeus and anybody else intrigued by the Night of the Hunter Talk:

Chris Isaak's introduction to it for Turner Classic Movies and appreciation for Robert Mitchum's talents as a dark leading man. Describes the movie as "A dark fairy tale" (sound familiar?).

Full movie on YouTube courtesy of UCLA Film Archives

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:@Maria Antonietta - it's funny because it's true. That's essentially his whole "courtship" of her.

@ISeeAnIsland - Is there anything in the MPAA code about open versus closed mouth? True you don't want a family movie to involve too much tongue. But yeah, the lack of tongue when he finally does get to make a move on her is pretty jarring. Besides building up to it with their crazy UST, he's told her that he's DTF.

@snufkin

Right?

If there are any Kylo-Rey scenes that end up getting cut because of questionable family-friendly content, I really really hope they include them as extras on the Blu-Ray release.

As far as MPAA guidelines go, if they're shooting for a PG-13, I can't imagine that tongue would be an issue. Geez, I remember way way back around the time that ROTJ was released, being shocked at seeing a brief bare boobs shot in Sixteen Candles, which was a PG movie (back before the Temple of Doom-fueled PG-13 designation). Would boobs have been considered more risque than a kiss with tongue?

MeadowofAshes wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

Saracene wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:High likelihood of real kiss between Rey and Kylo. Could be in the heat of things or regretted. I would also settle for almost kiss or "I have feelings for you", something that clearly spells out the sexual tension. No more ambiguity.

@MeadowofAshes

I don't think there'll be ambiguity. The whole point of TFA playing it subtle and everyone keeping quiet about Rey/Kylo is IMO about dropping an unexpected twist on the audience, which by its nature can't really be subtle.

I do hope they clear up the question of Rey's parents in Episode VIII; I just know that even if she and Kylo kiss there will still be a large part of the audience convinced that they just saw cousins kiss in a Disney movie.

@Saracene I agree and considering that whole Luke/Leia mess, just having them kiss won't be enough to convince them. Even though TFA itself debunks Luke from having children with Leia's line to Han "Luke is a Jedi, you're his father." I think it needs to be said out straight. This is speculation, but I can see three possible ways:

1) Luke flat out says he followed the old Jedi code which forbade marriage, romantic relations and children.
2) If Luke explains the Jedi code to Rey about this, she could get angry about being forced to follow the old ways because she's just found a makeshift family and say "You left your family, you've never even had children etc, you don't know what it's like to be alone."
3) Leia can say "Luke never had children. He doesn't understand." in regards to her feelings about Kylo Ren.

@AppleCrumble122

As someone on this forum (I forget who, probably multiple, LOL) said, even if Rey and Luke did the nasty there's a select crowd who would still believe Luke is Rey's father. Nothing to do about this. The way Pablo derides those who didn't get that Rey isn't Luke's from Maz's speech to Rey, I don't think they're worried about appealing to that crowd. For us and the GA a defining Kylo/Rey moment (kiss, almost kiss, "I have feelings", etc.) will be enough. I hope that this trilogy will continue in its current trend of not dummying down what it presents for the sake of those who've already made up their minds and/or refuse to believe what they see.

My mother enjoys SW (and all children's fantasy films, like Harry Potter) but she can be considered GA. She's asked multiple times if I think Rey is Luke's because the red herring has totally thrown her off the mark, but she also admits that Kylo has a "not very cousin like" interest in Rey. Once there's an open display of feelings between those two, I guarantee she'll say "Yeah, she's not Luke's." GA isn't dumb, it's just gullible because there's no highly vested interest in the direction SW goes (unlike us fanboys and girls ) so they accept the red herrings at face value. They're logical enough that once the actual story plays out, they'll accept it for what it is. It's the hardcore Reywalkers who aren't on board, and I doubt Disney/LFL care about appealing to such a small and patently small-minded crowd.

IoJovi wrote:Second that. I'm pretty positive that's a manip.

Lily Snape wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

Saracene wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:High likelihood of real kiss between Rey and Kylo. Could be in the heat of things or regretted. I would also settle for almost kiss or "I have feelings for you", something that clearly spells out the sexual tension. No more ambiguity.

@MeadowofAshes

I don't think there'll be ambiguity. The whole point of TFA playing it subtle and everyone keeping quiet about Rey/Kylo is IMO about dropping an unexpected twist on the audience, which by its nature can't really be subtle.

I do hope they clear up the question of Rey's parents in Episode VIII; I just know that even if she and Kylo kiss there will still be a large part of the audience convinced that they just saw cousins kiss in a Disney movie.

@Saracene I agree and considering that whole Luke/Leia mess, just having them kiss won't be enough to convince them. Even though TFA itself debunks Luke from having children with Leia's line to Han "Luke is a Jedi, you're his father." I think it needs to be said out straight. This is speculation, but I can see three possible ways:

1) Luke flat out says he followed the old Jedi code which forbade marriage, romantic relations and children.
2) If Luke explains the Jedi code to Rey about this, she could get angry about being forced to follow the old ways because she's just found a makeshift family and say "You left your family, you've never even had children etc, you don't know what it's like to be alone."
3) Leia can say "Luke never had children. He doesn't understand." in regards to her feelings about Kylo Ren.

@AppleCrumble122

As someone on this forum (I forget who, probably multiple, LOL) said, even if Rey and Luke did the nasty there's a select crowd who would still believe Luke is Rey's father. Nothing to do about this. The way Pablo derides those who didn't get that Rey isn't Luke's from Maz's speech to Rey, I don't think they're worried about appealing to that crowd. For us and the GA a defining Kylo/Rey moment (kiss, almost kiss, "I have feelings", etc.) will be enough. I hope that this trilogy will continue in its current trend of not dummying down what it presents for the sake of those who've already made up their minds and/or refuse to believe what they see.

My mother enjoys SW (and all children's fantasy films, like Harry Potter) but she can be considered GA. She's asked multiple times if I think Rey is Luke's because the red herring has totally thrown her off the mark, but she also admits that Kylo has a "not very cousin like" interest in Rey. Once there's an open display of feelings between those two, I guarantee she'll say "Yeah, she's not Luke's." GA isn't dumb, it's just gullible because there's no highly vested interest in the direction SW goes (unlike us fanboys and girls ) so they accept the red herrings at face value. They're logical enough that once the actual story plays out, they'll accept it for what it is. It's the hardcore Reywalkers who aren't on board, and I doubt Disney/LFL care about appealing to such a small and patently small-minded crowd.

@MeadowofAshes

There's a podcast under the banner of MSW but totally different people-- two guys, devoted Reywalkers to the extent that it's sexist and offensive (if Rey isn't Luke's kid, she's nobody and they're giving up on Star Wars, but no such standards for the male characters, etc.)-- but they had other people on to discuss TFA one time, including a woman, and she totally picked up on it. Her term for Kylo in the interrogation was "inappropriate," and she talked about him getting way up in Rey's personal space if I remember rightly. She certainly wasn't shipping Reylo-- just noticing Kylo's interest, on their podcast. And yet these guys are so wedded to the Reywalker thing that they didn't see it-- for some people, they'll have to be really hit over the head with it.

That said, I have to admit that at first I didn't believe Darth Vader when he said, "No, I am your father." But I was 8 years old, which is an excuse.

Force22 wrote:Oh, you guys want a kiss with tongue? I personally don't like it in movies.
This for me is too much. Get a room, guys... I don't know, I just don't find it aesthetically pleasing... Maybe I'm weird.

Marchtwin wrote:
How's this for a Reylo kiss?

Today, for the first time in all 18 years of my life, I have watched Beauty and the Beast. It's ridiculous how much of interaction between Belle and the beast is identical to Rey and Kylo's. ''It IS you!'' I mean, come on.

Sister and I giggled for the whole movie. Was thinking of you guys and your metas during every scene.

Today, I have seen the light.