ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Is the truth in the music?

"Finally, 1:30 to 1:40 in the song “Follow Me,” (The Force Awakens OST), in a scene where Rey is quietly startled by Finn’s concern on her behalf, a five note theme is audible that was utilized during strong emotional scenes with Obi-Wan in the prequels. (As I said, bear with me.) "

Thanks to spacebaby for finding this in the list

Gemini wrote:Is the truth in the music?

"Finally, 1:30 to 1:40 in the song “Follow Me,” (The Force Awakens OST), in a scene where Rey is quietly startled by Finn’s concern on her behalf, a five note theme is audible that was utilized during strong emotional scenes with Obi-Wan in the prequels. (As I said, bear with me.) "

Thanks to spacebaby for finding this in the list

@Gemini

This is a bare bones explanation, don't have time for a meta here but Obi Wan is associated with John the baptist, ( just google that tons of great scholarly and religious articles on this Obi Wan/Juan/John/) and John the Baptist with the age of Aquarius, SW is a solar myth, and every sun needs a house ( astrological ) that represents the age we are in... for Jesus it was the age of Pisces ...

so the symbol was fish, hence Jesus fed the people with 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread





for this myth, Kenobi's are the house of Aquarius and Skywalkers are the sun... Aquarius is the age due to precession that we are entering into.

Luke 22:10
“And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.”

King James Version (KJV)

From the Gospel of Luke which is why this is still Luke's story.....



This song tells the story of the solar myth... and the age which is upon us, and age when women will once again be equal ....



The first thing you see Rey do is take out a jug of water when she drinks... in the PT you will frequently see Obi in water or being rained on








The icing on the cake is the, the song "Follow Me" on the TFA sound track and it comes right before"Rey's Theme"  




John the Baptist, and his association with water, further symbolizes the water sign of Aquarius, through which the Sun travels to be "baptized", according to myth. The Sun enters Aquarius at 30 degrees and Jesus is baptized at 30. The zodiac circle was renamed the Crown of the Circle of the Holy Apostles (zodiac signs) by medieval monks and they placed John the Baptist in the position where Aquarius is located. (King Arthur and the 12 Knights of the Round Table are also Sun and Zodiac symbolism.)


Oh yes, and Kylo / Ben Solo ( SOl) as representative of the sun will be the age of 30 in EP 8 when he will be baptized

Ahem, saving rey from water. Emerging from water in film is a strong suggestion/ symbolism of rebirth and baptism

Gemini wrote:Ahem, saving rey from water. Emerging from water in film is a strong suggestion/ symbolism of rebirth and baptism

@Gemini

Yes Space Jesus....

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Gemini wrote:Ahem, saving rey from water. Emerging from water in film is a strong suggestion/ symbolism of rebirth and baptism

@Gemini

Yes Space Jesus....

@spacebaby45678

As is a character being entrenched in the rain.

I don't watch collider jedi council much but apparently some of them have been staunch reywalkers since the movie came out and have recently come around to the idea that she isn't Luke's. The John guy, I remember seeing a video in the very early days when he said he never thought she was Luke's kid, but it's nice that others are starting to agree with him. They talk about it in this video around the 34 minute mark.

He also says that if you watch TFA carefully, the movie never actually presents Rey's parentage as an important mystery. That's something I agree with, it's almost been completely spun from fanon because people assumed she had to be a Skywalker, as the protagonist.

@BastilaBey That is all true. The thing that is important is that the wait for her parents is holding her back, messes up with her potential. Explains why such a talent is stuck on a junkyard. That's all that is. Not WHO they are but WHAT their absence is doing to her.

vaderito wrote:@BastilaBey That is all true. The thing that is important is that the wait for her parents is holding her back, messes up with her potential. Explains why such a talent is stuck on a junkyard. That's all that is. Not WHO they are but WHAT their absence is doing to her.

@vaderito

I think what happened to them might be more important too, at least to Rey's emotional arc. Possibly moreso than who they are.

ZioRen wrote:

I think what happened to them might be more important too, at least to Rey's emotional arc. Possibly moreso than who they are.

@ZioRen

Certainly why they didn't come back. So, again, it's more what and why than who.

ZioRen wrote:

vaderito wrote:@BastilaBey That is all true. The thing that is important is that the wait for her parents is holding her back, messes up with her potential. Explains why such a talent is stuck on a junkyard. That's all that is. Not WHO they are but WHAT their absence is doing to her.

@vaderito

I think what happened to them might be more important too, at least to Rey's emotional arc. Possibly moreso than who they are.

@ZioRen

Agreed with both, it's the impact of their absence and how she ended up there which are important. I'm still the tiniest bit curious if Snoke's intro calling back the Emperor's intro in ESB is meant to be the same detail- he knew her parents and knows who she is. At least overtly, the callback is about Ben's parentage being Han and the theme of him being Luke gone DS.

@Bastilabey

Well it's his opinion, although, I think he's incorrect. Witholding information In any form of storytelling is 100 percent used to create mystery with a character, it's the oldest method. Don't explain parents? Means parents are a mystery.

Also I'd say it's a flat out misinterpretation of the film he has. There are several lines within the narrative which generate mystery about who she is.

Jyn is an example of a character who is random. Audience prepared, show her family, mother and father.

@Vaderito
Ever thought that the what and why she was abandoned may tie with who they are?

@gemini I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it's probably best if we don't debate Rey's parentage anymore. We're not going to convince each other. You think she's likely to be revealed as a relative of a legacy character, I don't. And that's fine! We'll just see.

@Bastilabey

It wasn't against you :p

It was in response to his opinion on the matter.

Sorry didn't mean to irritate lol

@gemini Sure, but I posted it because I agreed with him and you were responding to my post. It doesn't matter either way, but things tend to get unnecessarily personal with the issue of Rey's past. I'm sure we can agree it's good that they are moving away from the Reywalker theory

Personally I think the majority of the audience is as stuck on Rey's parents coming back as Rey herself.  Listen to Maz - she knows.  The belonging you seek isn't not behind you - it's ahead.  

Whoever dropped her off is never coming back.  They're either dead, or don't want to be found.

I do hope that whatever the outcome, the message will be that Rey is far more important than the mystery behind her lineage is, whatever that may be.

@Bastilabey

That's cool, I probs should have not tagged and made it clearer that it was my opinion on what he said.

I understand why you don't want to get into debates about it. Honestly was never meant to be a counter to your opinion on the matter and I respect that you see random.

But yes she's not reywalker, and that's great lol

We may not agree on the conclusions, but I've got to agree with @Gemini that TFA did make a mystery out of Rey's origins and I don't think it's at all weird that people are intrigued by it. The film called a lot of attention to the question of who Rey is and to her mysterious missing family. And lines like "I'm no one" and "classified? me too" were bound to make every amateur Sherlock in the audience sit up and pay attention.

Had they simply meant to establish her as a lonely orphan with unimportant parents, they could have done about a gazillion things differently. They might have simply emphasised her solitude and sadness, for one thing. Instead, they chose to emphasise her pathological need to wait for her family, which calls attention to said family: who are they, what are they, where are they now? I don't think it's fair to blame the audience for wanting to know more when Rey herself was fixated on this family for most of the film.

But as I've said before elsewhere, I don't think this mystery is meant for the audience to solve, as in, "guess whose daughter she is? can you connect the dots?" There isn't enough information for that. But I definitely think her mysterious parentage will play a role in the plot and/or come back to haunt her. I don't think it's just about what happened to them and how it affected Rey. But we'll see.

Alternatively, the mystery of her origins could be less about any "lineage", as such, and more about her being someone whose birth was prophesied, for example. But that would pretty much make her a Chosen One 2.0 and I'm not sure if LF would go there...

Darth Dingbat wrote:We may not agree on the conclusions, but I've got to agree with @Gemini that TFA did make a mystery out of Rey's origins and I don't think it's at all weird that people are intrigued by it. The film called a lot of attention to the question of who Rey is and to her mysterious missing family. And lines like "I'm no one" and "classified? me too" were bound to make every amateur Sherlock in the audience sit up and pay attention.

Had they simply meant to establish her as a lonely orphan with unimportant parents, they could have done about a gazillion things differently. They might have simply emphasised her solitude and sadness, for one thing. Instead, they chose to emphasise her pathological need to wait for her family, which calls attention to said family: who are they, what are they, where are they now? I don't think it's fair to blame the audience for wanting to know more when Rey herself was fixated on this family for most of the film.

But as I've said before elsewhere, I don't think this mystery is meant for the audience to solve, as in, "guess whose daughter she is? can you connect the dots?" There isn't enough information for that. But I definitely think her mysterious parentage will play a role in the plot and/or come back to haunt her. I don't think it's just about what happened to them and how it affected Rey. But we'll see.

Alternatively, the mystery of her origins could be less about any "lineage", as such, and more about her being someone whose birth was prophesied, for example. But that would pretty much make her a Chosen One 2.0 and I'm not sure if LF would go there...

@Darth Dingbat

Well, we know that while JJ is great on designing a mystery box, his best quality isn't on following it through.  I think there's a reason he was chosen to put together and write the first film, while Johnson and Trevorrow were assigned to give these mysteries needed resolution.  So given that, what might end up happening is that *too much* mystery is being applied to Rey's origins when the end result might not be the big bang people are expecting.  Personally at this point, I think is the most likely outcome.  Even Daisy Ridley herself said Rey's origins aren't as important as people are making it out to be.  That could have been in response to trying to snuff the fire out of the Reywalkers in effort to ease their disappointment, but regardless, I don't think they're going to be that big of a deal.  

So that said, my thoughts on her parentage changes pretty much with the tide.  I went from hoping she was a Palpatine, to being a believer in the Kenobi theory (that lasted for quite some time) and right now I'm sitting firmly in darkside origins, although not necessarily Palpatine.   I'm still not committed to anything, and I'm just waiting for the story to be told. I will say I'm pretty much ripe to jump on your King Prana theory and hold that one out til the end.

Gemini wrote:

Well it's his opinion, although, I think he's incorrect. Witholding information In any form of storytelling is 100 percent used to create mystery with a character, it's the oldest method. Don't explain parents? Means parents are a mystery.

Also I'd say it's a flat out misinterpretation of the film he has. There are several lines within the narrative which generate mystery about who she is.

Jyn is an example of a character who is random. Audience prepared, show her family, mother and father.

@Gemini

Here is what it comes down to, JJ said who rey is matters as in what her last name is, and that is why he withheld it... because what her last name is, is so big it can't be also contained in the same movie as the Ben Solo reveal, it needs time and space alone. You can't make a mystery of no mystery, and to say fans are just stuck or making it up as a "thing" on their own, is just not true... it is there in the narrative.. even Maz wants to know "who is the girl"

IoJovi wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:We may not agree on the conclusions, but I've got to agree with @Gemini that TFA did make a mystery out of Rey's origins and I don't think it's at all weird that people are intrigued by it. The film called a lot of attention to the question of who Rey is and to her mysterious missing family. And lines like "I'm no one" and "classified? me too" were bound to make every amateur Sherlock in the audience sit up and pay attention.

Had they simply meant to establish her as a lonely orphan with unimportant parents, they could have done about a gazillion things differently. They might have simply emphasised her solitude and sadness, for one thing. Instead, they chose to emphasise her pathological need to wait for her family, which calls attention to said family: who are they, what are they, where are they now? I don't think it's fair to blame the audience for wanting to know more when Rey herself was fixated on this family for most of the film.

But as I've said before elsewhere, I don't think this mystery is meant for the audience to solve, as in, "guess whose daughter she is? can you connect the dots?" There isn't enough information for that. But I definitely think her mysterious parentage will play a role in the plot and/or come back to haunt her. I don't think it's just about what happened to them and how it affected Rey. But we'll see.

Alternatively, the mystery of her origins could be less about any "lineage", as such, and more about her being someone whose birth was prophesied, for example. But that would pretty much make her a Chosen One 2.0 and I'm not sure if LF would go there...

@Darth Dingbat

Well, we know that while JJ is great on designing a mystery box, his best quality isn't on following it through.  I think there's a reason he was chosen to put together and write the first film, while Johnson and Trevorrow were assigned to give these mysteries needed resolution.  So given that, what might end up happening is that *too much* mystery is being applied to Rey's origins when the end result might not be the big bang people are expecting.  Personally at this point, I think is the most likely outcome.  Even Daisy Ridley herself said Rey's origins aren't as important as people are making it out to be.  That could have been in response to trying to snuff the fire out of the Reywalkers in effort to ease their disappointment, but regardless, I don't think they're not going to be that big of a deal.  

So that said, my thoughts on her parentage changes pretty much with the tide.  I went from hoping she was a Palpatine, to being a believer in the Kenobi theory (that lasted for quite some time) and right now I'm sitting firmly in darkside origins, although not necessarily Palpatine.   I'm still not committed to anything, and I'm just waiting for the story to be told. I will say I'm pretty much ripe to jump on your King Prana theory and hold that one out til the end.  

@IoJovi

I'm the same way. I like to think about Rey Palpatine for the story potential, I like to think about Rey Prana just because, I like to think about ancient Dark Side lineage à la EU Onderon, I like to think of Rey as a Dathomirian witch... and so on... basically I'm just curious about a ton of things and not married to any theory. I don't have any "serious" theory, more like a number of different scenarios I find it interesting to speculate about because the galaxy is so big and full of possibilities. But I'm still intrigued by the question, eleven months later, so I can't really blame anyone else for being intrigued likewise

I agree with you, I doubt Rey's background is going to be the big bang lots of people are expecting to be. The only thing I'm expecting it to be is an interesting story... as in, I hope her parents turn out to be interesting and important to the plot (even if they're dead), and I hope the story of how Rey ended up on Jakku is interesting, and I hope it's all tied to the overall plot in an interesting way. That's it. I'd be somewhat disappointed if she turns out to be the daughter of some dead bounty hunters who have no further significance, but hey, that's not enough to make me walk out of the cinema...

"Interesting" covers a lot of ground, I think. There's no way Rey's parentage twist is going to rival the Vader reveal in ESB, anyway, so I hope Rey's background is less about a "big twist" and more about being... just, you know, an interesting story.

IoJovi wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:We may not agree on the conclusions, but I've got to agree with @Gemini that TFA did make a mystery out of Rey's origins and I don't think it's at all weird that people are intrigued by it. The film called a lot of attention to the question of who Rey is and to her mysterious missing family. And lines like "I'm no one" and "classified? me too" were bound to make every amateur Sherlock in the audience sit up and pay attention.

Had they simply meant to establish her as a lonely orphan with unimportant parents, they could have done about a gazillion things differently. They might have simply emphasised her solitude and sadness, for one thing. Instead, they chose to emphasise her pathological need to wait for her family, which calls attention to said family: who are they, what are they, where are they now? I don't think it's fair to blame the audience for wanting to know more when Rey herself was fixated on this family for most of the film.

But as I've said before elsewhere, I don't think this mystery is meant for the audience to solve, as in, "guess whose daughter she is? can you connect the dots?" There isn't enough information for that. But I definitely think her mysterious parentage will play a role in the plot and/or come back to haunt her. I don't think it's just about what happened to them and how it affected Rey. But we'll see.

Alternatively, the mystery of her origins could be less about any "lineage", as such, and more about her being someone whose birth was prophesied, for example. But that would pretty much make her a Chosen One 2.0 and I'm not sure if LF would go there...

@Darth Dingbat

Well, we know that while JJ is great on designing a mystery box, his best quality isn't on following it through.  I think there's a reason he was chosen to put together and write the first film, while Johnson and Trevorrow were assigned to give these mysteries needed resolution.  So given that, what might end up happening is that *too much* mystery is being applied to Rey's origins when the end result might not be the big bang people are expecting.  Personally at this point, I think is the most likely outcome.  Even Daisy Ridley herself said Rey's origins aren't as important as people are making it out to be.  That could have been in response to trying to snuff the fire out of the Reywalkers in effort to ease their disappointment, but regardless, I don't think they're going to be that big of a deal.  

So that said, my thoughts on her parentage changes pretty much with the tide.  I went from hoping she was a Palpatine, to being a believer in the Kenobi theory (that lasted for quite some time) and right now I'm sitting firmly in darkside origins, although not necessarily Palpatine.   I'm still not committed to anything, and I'm just waiting for the story to be told. I will say I'm pretty much ripe to jump on your King Prana theory and hold that one out til the end.

@IoJovi

But Trevorrow who is tying all the answers up has said that when it comes to reys lineage, he is "not creating a host of new characters" and he is making sure the answer to her lineage means "no one is left behind". It's just not suggesting her parents are not important imo.

@Gemini and @Spacebaby45678 Yep, I get that part too.  The fact that they made her backstory and who she is such a big deal in TFA, and the fact she's the one who offered the saber to Luke at the end is the reason why I held onto Kenobi for a very long time.  There's also evidence through in Life Debt though that point very much towards Darkside origins.  That's not to say Kenobi still can't be her grandfather as there's another generation in between it all, but I don't know... The only thing that will convince me is when it's revealed.  Otherwise, I'll continue to sway back and forth til VIII (or IX) reveals it.

Dingbat is right though.  Whatever the reveal is, it's not go through to be on the level of ESB.  Nothing will top that ever.  If there's anything that might shock the audience in VIII, it'll be who's she's going to fall in love with; not who her father is...

I tend to think her parents are important in the sense that whatever happened to her family which resulted in her growing up alone on Jakku is meant to parallel whatever happened to cause Ben's fall and also fracture that family. The Reywalker impulse seems to come in part out of expecting a similar shocking twist to "I am your father." But the link isn't that she's a blood relative or child for either Leia or Luke, it's that something awful happened which shattered her family and changed the trajectory of her life. And unlike Ben, it happened to her at an earlier age. The Mystery Box is what happened to her family and if it was also prompted by the same forces/players which shattered his family. Also if be linked or not linked that way (my guess is yes because she's a FS who rivals his powers) makes a difference in the plot/motivation. It has to come into play once they get to know each other and understand/empathize how these events led the other up to the point where they became antagonists.

Hes also said it's going to be profoundly satisfying, which I just cant image being the effect of a dark side lineage like palpatine.

Iv e never been against dark rey, in fact I've always felt her parents were dark or fell into darkness.

It's the opposite of ren.