ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Maria Antonietta wrote:I'm temporarily done with Rey's parentage speculation

@Maria Antonietta

I'm with you on this one.

My thoughts on Rey's parentage change depending on what day it is, and I'm at the point where I'll know when they tell us the answers...

I am only positive of who they AREN'T...

IoJovi wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:I'm temporarily done with Rey's parentage speculation

@Maria Antonietta

I'm with you on this one.

My thoughts on Rey's parentage change depending on what day it is, and I'm at the point where I'll know when they tell us the answers...

I am only positive of who they AREN'T...

@IoJovi

I'm going to join you guys on that Austrian mountain and stop caring about who Rey's parents are because I'm sure who they aren't like you @IoJovi

Ah the lack of rey toys.

It's funny how Jyn has lots and lots of toys upon launch, lots of different costumes. But rey?

I think they are waiting until the reveal of who she is.

Remember what was said by hasbro and toy makers when they were shown the video to base their ep 8 toys off of?

Rey's Vision and why it might mean she is a Kenobi... an excellent analysis by the blog Clone Wars Corridor...

"One of the most noteworthy scenes in Episode VII The Force Awakens was Rey’s Force-vision.scene it 2 It is a scene in which we are projected both into the past as well as into the future. Some events Rey witnesses pertain to her own history and some are of a more mysterious origin. It is the key moment where there is an awakening in The Force Awakens, Rey touches the lightsaber that originally belonged to Anakin Skywalker, was passed to Luke by Obi Wan who subsequently lost it.

The Visual Story

When Rey stands a top the staircase into Maz Kanata’s basement BB-8 looks up at her. Screenshot (464)On a droid-face it is never easy to judge and emotion or intent, but it seems less a quizzing look along the lines of ‘what are you doing’ and more an ‘are you sure yo want to go down there’. Almost suggesting that BB-8 knows more about what is going on. Such an all-knowing droid is not without precedent in the Star Wars Saga, it is the role played by R2-D2 who is now temporarilly off-line in the story. When Luke visits Dagobah in The Empire Strikes Back he is also accompanied by an all knowing droid. R2 even knows who Yoda is when they first meet but keeps silent! It is quite possible that BB-8 knows much more about the events unfolding before him than we suspect.

As Rey descends into the basement, BB-8 follows her at a distance.Screenshot (468) In fact it is curious to see that BB-8 halts before Rey does the same in front of a door. Again here is a hint that BB-8 knows what it about to happen, or what is supposed to happen. Although there might not be a reason to believe that BB-8 can open doors from a distance, there is also no reason to believe that he couldn’t, especially when he knows what is supposed to happen. When Rey enters the opening door BB-8 follows her while maintaining the distance. He does seem to know whatever is happening has an intimacy he is not supposed to disturb. It is not a fearful-keeping-the-distance, it is a respectful motion.

Once inside the expression of Rey’s face shows she knows the trove to be the source of whatever it is she is hearing and she cautiously opens the lid.Screenshot (467) As soon as she touches the lightsaber a sequence of images unfold. The first image is a ‘far past’ image straight out of Empire Strikes Back. As the Bespin Hallway collapses Rey falls into a new sequence the first image of which is Luke (probably) and R2 mourning at what seems to be a funeral pyre just outside of the field of view. Rain starts gushing down, lightening flashing as we get what seems a shot of a hoodless but masked Kylo Ren seemingly saving Rey from an attack of what looks like a Knight of Ren. Screenshot (474)But I have the impression this is caused by persepctive rather than by actual proximity. These images clearly refer to a possible future. The sequence leaves ambiguous whether the images of Kylo and his knights or those of Luke and R2 are past or future. The gushing rain however suggests a continuity in the two images as if they are part of the same past or future event. Kylo seems to walk towards her and as she turns around she sees her young self and, after turning around again, the departing ship of, most likely, her parents.Screenshot (480) This is clearly a vision of the past again! As the image deforms with the Jakku sun seemingly having it’s light sucked out we get a view of Star Killer Base where Rey encounters a hooded and masked Kylo Ren. This is a possible future we will see realised in a slightly different way later.

Evidently Rey does not know Kylo at this time. Nor does she know Luke! The visions pertaining to these two must be completely puzzling to her. It seems to be the vision of her own younger self that unsettles her the most, which is also what her facial expression seems to suggest.Screenshot (488) The explanation of Maz Kanata after the end of the vision actually adds remarkably little to an understanding of what she has seen. Maz seems to express some degree of surprise at the fact that the lightsabre of the Skywalkers calls out to her and Rey seems frightened by the prospect to be entangled in a destiny this vast and something that is so cloudied and perplexing. She is in denial, much like Luke is after he has heard about his father from Ben Kenobi in Episode IV.

Rey runs from the realization she is waiting in vain and her past will not return.image A future beckons that she cannot embrace yet her past has so much that is left ‘unfinished’ that she cannot move forward. Luke is in a similar situation when he is in Ben’s home and recieves this same lightsaber, he too cannot move into the future because, as Ben put’s it, he hears ‘his uncle talking’. In fact Anakin Skywalker himself is in a similar situation in Attack of the Clones after he has attempted to return to a past that has been long gone. A ‘hesitation’ he had a decade earlier when leaving his mother behind on tatooine is replayed in Attack of the Clones when he comes to her rescue, but does so while failing to save her life. anakin-and-padme_39195_2The genuine hesitation of the young Anakin, become the guilt-laden return of the adolescent Anakin and it ends in the disgrace of the Sandpeople Massacre. He is propelled back towards his destiny only because of the enemy’s action; the capture of Obi Wan.

Luke also wants to retread his path back to the homestead. However this option gets violently erradicated by the Imperial Stormtroopers’assasination of the Lars family.SWPoetry5 In a similar vein Rey’s attempt to retrace her steps to Jakku are blocked by the actions of the First Order attacking Maz’s hide-out. In all three cases ‘fate’ drives our protagonists towards their destiny and disallows them a move back to a past that is now gone. One might argue that this amounts to further evidence that there is a Skywalker lineage at work here. But there is one further interesting parallel to note as another main character in the Star Wars hexalogy goes through a similar motion.

Master Yoda sends out Obi Wan to find and kill Darth Vader and although Obi Wan does as he is told and goes to seek out Vader he is actually not going after Vader. Kenobi_MustafarObi Wan is looking for Anakin Skywalker, someone who according to Yoda, in that same scene of Revenge of the Sith, has been lost, ‘consumed’ by Darth Vader. When Obi Wan finally finds Anakin he is clearly looking for his former friend and cannot believe what he finds. Anakin’s return to his past ended in a disgraceful crime, Obi Wan’s journey takes him into a similar abys. Not only does Obi Wan not fulfil the prime aim of his mission, to destroy Vader, but against the Code of the Republic Jedi he expresses his attachment to Anakin, also using that name, and finally leaves him to die a slow torturous death on the banks of a lava river. Only after this duel does Obi Wan take over Yoda’s view that Anakin is no more. The next time they meet Obi Wan will no longer address him as ‘Anakin’ but only as ‘Vader’.

This Forcevision is a turning point in the film but it never clearly spells out how or why it is a turning point, or what it is that needs turning. Sure, there is the superficial story of the protagonist that seeks to hold on to the past but must be moved forward on the path of destiny. Screenshot (479)But I think there is another, less explicit but possibly more profound turn that occurs here in the depiction of Rey. It is good to realise that up untill this moment Rey has very much been depicted as a Skywalker/Solo. Rey’s pilotting skills and technical repair skills seem to match those of Anakin and Han. Rey’s seclusion and isolation on a desert planet in the custody of someone who is not her father seems to resonate with Luke’s youth on tatooine. Her dependence of being at the mercy of whatever that pusher of an Unkar Plutt is willing to pay for scrap metal rhymes with Anakin’s servitude to scrap-dealer Watto. The audio story reveals something quite interesting pointing into the direction of a ‘plot reversal’.

The Audio Story

The audio of the scene is a treasure trove of tidbits from the Original Trilogy, here are just a number that I think I have identified in the order of their appearance

– Vader’s breath

– “Its energy” (Yoda on Dagobah)

– “Noooo nooo” (Luke on Bespin) and softer the start of Vader’s “Nooo” in ROTS

– “Surrounds us and binds us” (Yoda on Dagobah)

– You’ll be “tempted” (Obi Wan on Dagobah at Luke’s departure)

– “Surrounds us” (Yoda on Dagobah)

– “Any Jedi” … (Sidious)

– “Rey?” (Obi Wan from the OT)

– “These are your first steps” (Obi Wan from the PT)

There are several more I can hear but can’t properly associate with a character or a scene from one of the other 6 movies. I was surprised to find Sidious, from Revenge of the Sith where he says to Anakin ‘Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi’. Try for yourself here!

The only truly new dialogue that is in here is coming from Ewan McGregor’s Obi Wan. Lots of other dialogue is hinted at but only presented bitwise. From the collection of voices that speak to Rey two emerge clearest, Yoda and Obi Wan. Yoda’s comments are taken up in the post-vision dialogue by Maz Kanata. Screenshot (485)She alsmost literally repeats Yoda’s words. Yet Rey initially rejects Maz’s suggestion to take the Skywalker saber and she runs away from destiny. But which destiny is she running away from? From being another Skywalker?

The audio fragments tell a story of temptation to the darkness, of letting in the Force and allowing it to lead you, of heritage that connects one to the legendary events of the past. They surround the ‘awakening’ of a young woman who hardly knows her own past. She knows she is waiting for her ‘family’ as she explains BB-8. She didn’t say she is waiting for her father or mother, of which of course she knows she will have, or have had, one. But she is waiting for ‘family’! She is waiting for a community that she belongs to, for a back story that is hers and that encompasses more than just a father or a mother.

My Interpretation

Rey’s Forcevision evidently contains clues as to her origins. Up untill that moment Rey has been primarilly displaying Skywalker qualities and characteristics. That changes after this Forcevision. The dialogue between Maz and Rey isn’t very illuminating with respect that is being said. So maybe we should think about what has not been said! Prior to the scene Maz ask’s Han about the identity of ‘the girl’ and the most consistent assumption is that Han tells Maz off-screen that she is a girl from Jakku. Many have theoreized that Han actually knows who she is and tells Maz the whole story. My theory however would be that Han has no idea who she is, but what he tells Maz is enough for Maz to identify her. Because in her dialogue with Rey Maz does not only seem to know who Rey is waiting for … she also knows that they are not coming back! They! I think Maz knows more than we suspect and has spotted something in Rey’s fate that will lead her to Luke with a certain mission involving the Skywalker saber.

In the final third of the film Rey starts showing ‘Kenobi’ behaviour. She sneeks around the Starkiller Base like a Kenobi did on the Death Star or on Geonosis, Anakin-Obi-Wan-SW-ep-III-Battle-Of-The-Heroes-obi-wan-kenobi-and-anakin-skywalker-14050964-852-480she ‘mindtricks’ a stormtrooper like Obi Wan in Mon Eisly, the final segments of her battle with Ben Skywalker mimic visually the battle between Obi Wan and Anakin and of course finally Rey becomes the messenger picks up the Skywalker saber from the ground and who hands it to a Skywalker. In the Kylo v.s. Rey saber battle shots that show resemblance with the Anakin v.s. Obi Wan battle you will see that in terms of pose, movement and screen position Kylo has the Skywalker position and Rey has Kenobi’s.

To me it all suggests that in this pivotal scene in The Force Awakens we are introduced to the fact that Rey’s past is not only tied to the Skywalker storyline,EPVII_Kylo_Ren_Final_Battle-1536x864-350327783729 but also to Kenobi’s. That her future is not merely to take her place in the line of Skywalkers, because in a sense that place has been taken already! Kylo is in many ways the Anakin between Episode’s 2 and 3 that we have not seen except for glimpses in some of the Clone Wars episodes. Rey on the other hand may very well, in terms of character type, evolve more into a young, female, Obi Wan as we have seen in episode’s 1 and 2. Suggesting that Luke may actually be more of a Qui Gon than of an old Kenobi in Episode VIII.

I think this scene is an exciting one and with so much of Rey’s backstory still shrouded in mystery it will be a joy to spend 18 more months unearthing what we can from the visuals, the soundtrack and of course the rest of The Force Awakens."


https://clonecorridor.wordpress.com/2016/04/23/scene-it-reys-vision/

Gemini wrote:Ah the lack of rey toys.

It's funny how Jyn has lots and lots of toys upon launch, lots of different costumes. But rey?

I think they are waiting until the reveal of who she is.

Remember what was said by hasbro and toy makers when they were shown the video to base their ep 8 toys off of?

@Gemini

No, I don't remember hearing about that.  What did they say?

Kyla Ren wrote:

Gemini wrote:Ah the lack of rey toys.

It's funny how Jyn has lots and lots of toys upon launch, lots of different costumes. But rey?

I think they are waiting until the reveal of who she is.

Remember what was said by hasbro and toy makers when they were shown the video to base their ep 8 toys off of?

@Gemini

No, I don't remember hearing about that.  What did they say?

@Kyla Ren

They were shown a video by lucasfilm/Disney at the celebration in order for them to make toys for episode 8. After watching the video one toy maker (think he was hasbro) was interviewed and said that due to rey  lineage theories they will be making a new obi wan kenobi doll.

Today my son found a new game from Lego, called Star Wars The Freemaker Adventures! Somebody knows? I thought the story of this family was incredible and I thought I might have some connection with Rey! It would be possible?

Gemini wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

Gemini wrote:Ah the lack of rey toys.

It's funny how Jyn has lots and lots of toys upon launch, lots of different costumes. But rey?

I think they are waiting until the reveal of who she is.

Remember what was said by hasbro and toy makers when they were shown the video to base their ep 8 toys off of?

@Gemini

No, I don't remember hearing about that.  What did they say?

@Kyla Ren

They were shown a video by lucasfilm/Disney at the celebration in order for them to make toys for episode 8. After watching the video one toy maker (think he was hasbro) was interviewed and said that due to rey  lineage theories they will be making a new obi wan kenobi doll.

@Gemini

Interesting.....could you please post a link to the video? I would like to hear the interview with the toy maker.

panki wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

Gemini wrote:Ah the lack of rey toys.

It's funny how Jyn has lots and lots of toys upon launch, lots of different costumes. But rey?

I think they are waiting until the reveal of who she is.

Remember what was said by hasbro and toy makers when they were shown the video to base their ep 8 toys off of?

@Gemini

No, I don't remember hearing about that.  What did they say?

@Kyla Ren

They were shown a video by lucasfilm/Disney at the celebration in order for them to make toys for episode 8. After watching the video one toy maker (think he was hasbro) was interviewed and said that due to rey  lineage theories they will be making a new obi wan kenobi doll.

@Gemini

Interesting.....could you please post a link to the video? I would like to hear the interview with the toy maker.

@panki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc5i2ea0ve4

whole video is good, and kenobi reference at 4:33

Gemini wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

Gemini wrote:Ah the lack of rey toys.

It's funny how Jyn has lots and lots of toys upon launch, lots of different costumes. But rey?

I think they are waiting until the reveal of who she is.

Remember what was said by hasbro and toy makers when they were shown the video to base their ep 8 toys off of?

@Gemini

No, I don't remember hearing about that.  What did they say?

@Kyla Ren

They were shown a video by lucasfilm/Disney at the celebration in order for them to make toys for episode 8. After watching the video one toy maker (think he was hasbro) was interviewed and said that due to rey  lineage theories they will be making a new obi wan kenobi doll.

@Gemini

Oh, thanks.  That's interesting.  I hadn't heard about that.

So here's a question for you guys given the recent discussion about Obi-Wan. If she's not a direct descendant, but maybe a relative (like great-niece if he had a brother per @panki's previous post) that he's compelled to watch over via the Force, how about a scenario where she's a relative of the woman he loved? If they never had a kid but she had relatives and those people had descendants who were eventually targeted by Imperial/FO factions, that Rey might be one of them? Like if she was the last one left who's a connection to this person he loved, his spirit is compelled to reach out to her and guide her? That in and of itself might be too much exposition to have in a movie, but it's almost the same scenario as "hey I'm your long lost great uncle and I'm here to talk to you about the Force."

snufkin wrote:So here's a question for you guys given the recent discussion about Obi-Wan. If she's not a direct descendant, but maybe a relative (like great-niece if he had a brother per @panki's previous post) that he's compelled to watch over via the Force, how about a scenario where she's a relative of the woman he loved? If they never had a kid but she had relatives and those people had descendants who were eventually targeted by Imperial/FO factions, that Rey might be one of them? Like if she was the last one left who's a connection to this person he loved, his spirit is compelled to reach out to her and guide her? That in and of itself might be too much exposition to have in a movie, but it's almost the same scenario as "hey I'm your long lost great uncle and I'm here to talk to you about the Force."

@snufkin

I would love a scenario like this....while not an exact parallel, a legends character named Ulic Quel Droma trained the daughter of his true love to become a jedi...though she was not biologically his daughter, she meant as much as a real daughter to him.....if not more.

If she was just a niece or something, I don't think it would be obi wan calling out to her. They would set up the niece story line with obibwans brother or sister immediately imo.

Gemini wrote:If she was just a niece or something, I don't think it would be obi wan calling out to her. They would set up the niece story line with obibwans brother or sister immediately imo.

@Gemini

To be fair it's not like any of my great-uncles or great-grandfathers would probably bother to speak to me from the grave (though I'd love to chat with the one who was an organizer during the Pullman Strike here in the States). Just if it's correct in surmising that Disney was squeamish enough about the idea of Leia getting accidentally knocked up after the Battle of Endor celebration party to have a "it happened after they were married" detail in Bloodline, would they go the same route with Obi-Wan? Because it seems most likely any kid he would've fathered would've happened on the other side of the proverbial blanket and he's the most morally upright out of all the OT characters. The descendant of a relative option at least allows them an out on the Disney family values point (other than patricide obvs).

The only canon love interest we know of for Obi-Wan is Satine. I could just about accept Korkie being their secret love child (although with the reservations @panki has detailed here and elsewhere). But I'm struggling to see where any other canon love interest could come from and how they could succeed in producing a child without it being detrimental to Obi-Wan as a character. It does carry many of the same problems as the Rey Skywalker theories.

Having seen Rogue One, and attempting to view TFA in a simpler light, it's easy to see Rey is not a Skywalker. Once you remove the big fan assumption that she *has* to be a Skywalker because she's the heroic main character, it's pretty straightforward. Also, the Solo theories don't work post TFA and Bloodline. It wouldn't have taken much to build in some hints towards a missing daughter/niece (and I'm not talking theories built on "clues" that take more deciphering than the Enigma code!) but there hasn't been a thing.

We have no facts to speak of regarding what happened to Rey, only the snippet from her forceback vision which might or might not be accurate. If we take it at face value, it shows a young girl of around 5 or 6 being left (Pablo once said abandoned would be more accurate) on Jakku with Unkar Plutt. We assume whoever abandoned her flew away on that ship that she's pleading to "come back".

All we are left with is assumptions. Given what we know about Unkar Plutt (if we count the deleted scene from Takodana/Maz's Castle) he appears to regard Rey as his property. She scavenges good stuff for him but he keeps her down through having control over her seemingly only means of gaining food. I also have to assume that given how willing Plutt was to return BB8 to the First Order for financial gain, and given his line of trade, he doesn't know how valuable Rey could be to him outside of her being one of his best scavengers. It is possible he took possession of her as a girl from whoever took her to Jakku in exchange for a ship, or maybe parts for a ship as a whole ship seems a lot to trade for one small girl). But if Plutt had any inkling of her being force sensitive or royalty or connected to any known family who might pay good money to get her back, I don't know why he wouldn't have sought to profit from that information. Nothing about Plutt speaks to any kind of nobility or him having a hidden self-sacrificing nature.

It is hard to accept that anyone who truly cared about Rey would leave her on Jakku with Plutt, even if it was only intended to be temporary and they had every intention of returning for her. She was abandoned during a supposed time of peace in the galaxy so fleeing from conflict doesn't seem likely unless it was localised. We saw no hints aside maybe from the "what girl?" moment that anyone has been searching for Rey before she got on Kylo's and the First Order's radar over BB8. If Jakku was a good place to hide out, as Lor San Tekka seemed to have been doing, why didn't Rey's parent/parents/guardian stay with her? It could be assumed they were on the run from someone/something and needed to ditch her. Maybe leaving her with Plutt was mercy next to killing her or abandoning her somewhere she would have no means of survival.

Another thing that bugs me is Rey's absolute conviction that her parents would return for her. I could see it being something to hang onto throughout childhood to get her through but to get to the age of 19 and still be holding onto it is just odd. It's like she was programmed or mind tricked into staying on Jakku (although I don't subscribe to Luke or Kylo being the ones who dumped her).

My conclusion, such as it is, is that while TFA told us who her parents weren't, I'm still not convinced it told us who they were. There does seem to be *something* with Rey and an Obi-Wan Kenobi connection but I'm leaning towards it not being familial (much as I wouldn't mind Rey Kenobi one bit).

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:The only canon love interest we know of for Obi-Wan is Satine. I could just about accept Korkie being their secret love child (although with the reservations @panki has detailed here and elsewhere). But I'm struggling to see where any other canon love interest could come from and how they could succeed in producing a child without it being detrimental to Obi-Wan as a character. It does carry many of the same problems as the Rey Skywalker theories.

Having seen Rogue One, and attempting to view TFA in a simpler light, it's easy to see Rey is not a Skywalker. Once you remove the big fan assumption that she *has* to be a Skywalker because she's the heroic main character, it's pretty straightforward. Also, the Solo theories don't work post TFA and Bloodline. It wouldn't have taken much to build in some hints towards a missing daughter/niece (and I'm not talking theories built on "clues" that take more deciphering than the Enigma code!) but there hasn't been a thing.

We have no facts to speak of regarding what happened to Rey, only the snippet from her forceback vision which might or might not be accurate. If we take it at face value, it shows a young girl of around 5 or 6 being left (Pablo once said abandoned would be more accurate) on Jakku with Unkar Plutt. We assume whoever abandoned her flew away on that ship that she's pleading to "come back".

All we are left with is assumptions. Given what we know about Unkar Plutt (if we count the deleted scene from Takodana/Maz's Castle) he appears to regard Rey as his property. She scavenges good stuff for him but he keeps her down through having control over her seemingly only means of gaining food. I also have to assume that given how willing Plutt was to return BB8 to the First Order for financial gain, and given his line of trade, he doesn't know how valuable Rey could be to him outside of her being one of his best scavengers. It is possible he took possession of her as a girl from whoever took her to Jakku in exchange for a ship, or maybe parts for a ship as a whole ship seems a lot to trade for one small girl). But if Plutt had any inkling of her being force sensitive or royalty or connected to any known family who might pay good money to get her back, I don't know why he wouldn't have sought to profit from that information. Nothing about Plutt speaks to any kind of nobility or him having a hidden self-sacrificing nature.

It is hard to accept that anyone who truly cared about Rey would leave her on Jakku with Plutt, even if it was only intended to be temporary and they had every intention of returning for her. She was abandoned during a supposed time of peace in the galaxy so fleeing from conflict doesn't seem likely unless it was localised. We saw no hints aside maybe from the "what girl?" moment that anyone has been searching for Rey before she got on Kylo's and the First Order's radar over BB8. If Jakku was a good place to hide out, as Lor San Tekka seemed to have been doing, why didn't Rey's parent/parents/guardian stay with her? It could be assumed they were on the run from someone/something and needed to ditch her. Maybe leaving her with Plutt was mercy next to killing her or abandoning her somewhere she would have no means of survival.

Another thing that bugs me is Rey's absolute conviction that her parents would return for her. I could see it being something to hang onto throughout childhood to get her through but to get to the age of 19 and still be holding onto it is just odd. It's like she was programmed or mind tricked into staying on Jakku (although I don't subscribe to Luke or Kylo being the ones who dumped her).

My conclusion, such as it is, is that while TFA told us who her parents weren't, I'm still not convinced it told us who they were. There does seem to be *something* with Rey and an Obi-Wan Kenobi connection but I'm leaning towards it not being familial (much as I wouldn't mind Rey Kenobi one bit).

@Mrs Ben Solo

The Unkar Plutt factor is where my former literature teachers would be so proud, because I keep thinking of half a dozen scenarios from classic English literature. Especially Rey being like Jane Eyre or any of Dickens' plucky downtrodden orphans like Pip (Han could've been her version of Magwitch with Ren as Estella) or Lizzie Hexam (scavenging is the Star Wars version of being a mudlark). The name itself sounds like a Dickensian character. However, abandoned is a good possibility considering that the protagonists of Rian Johnson's last two movies were also people coming to terms with childhood neglect/abandonment.

I agree @Snufkin Rey's situation with Plutt is very Dickensian. The deleted scene where he chases Rey down to Takodana put me in mind of Oliver Twist being hunted down by Fagin and Bill Sykes when he finds his (unwitting) family (although I don't believe Rey found blood family but people who cared for her as family), as did the earlier scenes with the doling out of portions (please sir, can I have some more?)

As Pablo said that abandoned was a more accurate description of what befell Rey rather than being left behind, it suggests she was unwanted. No one on Jakku, that we know of, appears to have known her worth beyond her usefulness as a scavenger. If Plutt knows who left her behind, I have to assume that person was no one good. Whoever they were, they secured no special care or consideration for Rey beyond the knowledge she might have a chance of surviving if she worked for it. It does put one in mind of the woodsman in Snow White who can't bring himself to kill her but does nothing to ensure her survival beyond that. Also, as you mentioned, Jane Eyre who is left in a place she might very well die and be knowingly ill-treated but hardwork and a will to survive see her through. I'm sure there are lots of other literary comparisons too but it's late and my brain wants to sleep!

And the Francophones on here have compared her to Cosette in Les Miserables. But in terms of the orphan figure in English language literature (which occurs to me that Finn is a bit of a Mark Twain reference), the British Library probably says it best:

Orphans in fiction

John Mullan wrote:The orphan is above all a character out of place, forced to make his or her own home in the world. The novel itself grew up as a genre representing the efforts of an ordinary individual to navigate his or her way through the trials of life. The orphan is therefore an essentially novelistic character, set loose from established conventions to face a world of endless possibilities (and dangers). The orphan leads the reader through a maze of experiences, encountering life's threats and grasping its opportunities. Being the focus of the story’s interest, he or she is a naïve mirror to the qualities of others. In children’s fiction, of course, the orphan will eventually find the happiness to compensate for being deprived of parents. Dickens’s Oliver Twist, who remains virtuous and innocent despite the criminal company he keeps, is comparable with these characters from children’s fiction. Like many of them, he discovers inherited affluence, but along the way reveals to the reader the secrets of London’s criminal underbelly.

As for the Plutt factor, there has to be some circle back to him in the future if only to resolve his appearance in Rey's Force vision. And Simon Pegg is so passionate about the OT that he wrote his Master's Thesis about it. It's hard to accept that his cameo was a one-off appearance like all the celebrity Stormtroopers. His character is pretty central to Rey's origins. Although it seems like Plutt really has no idea what her true value is, beyond seeing her as a servant who brings in a nice profit margin for him. Which might be the tiniest of a callback to how CGI Jabba tells Han that he's his best smuggler but also threatens to take the MF away from him as payment (they make it clear that Plutt is very pissed that she steals the MF from him).

But best guess, her origins on Jakku provide a two-fer for providing motivation for how they chose to run with the "you have compassion for her" line. In terms of another Dickens character, could see the relationship between her and Ren where he eventually feels Sydney Carton-esque towards her because she's had a completely awful life so far, managed to survive it with her moral code and dignity intact, and other than effing up his face, all of her actions have been pretty selfless and driven her moral code. Besides the attraction shown in TFA, he'll likely end up respecting/admiring the Hell out of her for both her power and character and see sacrificing himself because he's wasted his life/committed terrible acts, versus what was done to her as a child.

Also in terms of whatever secret Kenobi origins, it likely places her within "The Empire needs children" campaign and also as the last remnants of any groups/factions which were wiped out as Snoke consolidated power within the FO.

spacebaby45678 wrote:To the question of changing the way we view Obi Wan, I think starwars.com has acknowledged that Clone Wars has changed the mythos of the Star Wars universe in more than one way, but this is the excerpt about Obitine...

http://www.starwars.com/news/6-ways-star-wars-the-clone-wars-changed-the-star-wars-mythos



Obi-Wan’s Lost Love

The Clone Wars challenged the edict that Jedi could not have romantic relationships even more than the films. While Anakin and Padmé’s relationship flew in the face of the code, it also contributed to Anakin’s descent into the dark side. When Obi-Wan Kenobi loved in The Clone Wars, however, he came out stronger. While we all loved the flirtations between Obi-Wan and Ventress, in this case we’re talking about Dutchess Satine Kryze.

Obi-Wan and Satine’s feelings were clear, despite a hidden history. In “Voyage of Temptation,” Obi-Wan reveals he would have left the Order to be with her had she but asked – and just think of how differently our saga would be without his guidance.

Having loved makes Kenobi more relatable, and it also makes him relate to Anakin and Padmé’s plight more, making the heartbreak of Revenge of the Sith all the more palpable.

@spacebaby45678


So there's a hidden back story for obi and satine?

This backs up that email chain between filoni and Pablo about a scandalous back story.

As I said earlier. It's referring to something not seen on screen yet.  It's the back story of the 2 where something scandalous happened. Not what we saw already in anything. It's something they are writing still it seems. Something is hidden about obi wan and satine. With all the other rumours and spoilers and what tfa is saying. Imo it's  that they have had a child. There's zero point of creating something new about obibwan and satine unless it's tying in with something. Why go back to something already sealed off and told in order to add a secret history which relates to nothing? Just in time for the sequel trilogy to boot.

Gemini wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:To the question of changing the way we view Obi Wan, I think starwars.com has acknowledged that Clone Wars has changed the mythos of the Star Wars universe in more than one way, but this is the excerpt about Obitine...

http://www.starwars.com/news/6-ways-star-wars-the-clone-wars-changed-the-star-wars-mythos



Obi-Wan’s Lost Love

The Clone Wars challenged the edict that Jedi could not have romantic relationships even more than the films. While Anakin and Padmé’s relationship flew in the face of the code, it also contributed to Anakin’s descent into the dark side. When Obi-Wan Kenobi loved in The Clone Wars, however, he came out stronger. While we all loved the flirtations between Obi-Wan and Ventress, in this case we’re talking about Dutchess Satine Kryze.

Obi-Wan and Satine’s feelings were clear, despite a hidden history. In “Voyage of Temptation,” Obi-Wan reveals he would have left the Order to be with her had she but asked – and just think of how differently our saga would be without his guidance.

Having loved makes Kenobi more relatable, and it also makes him relate to Anakin and Padmé’s plight more, making the heartbreak of Revenge of the Sith all the more palpable.

@spacebaby45678


So there's a hidden back story for obi and satine?

This backs up that email chain between filoni and Pablo about a scandalous back story.

As I said earlier. It's referring to something not seen on screen yet.  It's the back story of the 2 where something scandalous happened. Not what we saw already in anything. It's something they are writing still it seems. Something is hidden about obi wan and satine. With all the other rumours and spoilers and what tfa is saying. Imo it's  that they have had a child. There's zero point of creating something new about obibwan and satine unless it's tying in with something. Why go back to something already sealed off and told in order to add a secret history which relates to nothing? Just in time for the sequel trilogy to boot.

@Gemini

One of my favorite tumblers is snark wars, just excellent fun sarcastic writing about TCW & now Rebels.... her/his commentary on the Mandalore arc is for me classic, almost as good as the Mandalore arc itself, he/she had this to say recently because of the renewed speculation about Rey Kenobi

I feel like I should issue an official statement on there along the lines of:

“For whatever it’s worth, Internet, I myself have no especially strong opinion on anything Rey-related one way or the other at this time. But, since you all seem to be looking to me as the leading authority on the important topic of “Obi-Wan Kenobi: Did Anyone Ever Hit That?”: yes, in the World According to Snark Wars, Obi-Wan definitely had sex with at least one person. Can’t help you out on anything else, even though I did thoroughly enjoy speculating wildly about that random, dweeby, strawberry-blonde-haired teenage, ahem, “nephew” Satine has in this episode. I hope this helps, everyone. Have a nice day.”

https://www.tumblr.com/dashboard/blog/forcearama/154341036078


For me there is tons of subtext in the Mandalore arc between Obitine tons... and additional subtext provided by Darth Grandpa... there is something there, and when there is there there, it usually adds up to something. Will that something be Rey Kenobi? Time will tell

Okay, time for a bonkers new "parentage theory" that is - miraculously - a "Snoke theory" at the same time.

Remember how I once said I had a silly dream that Rey was Abeloth's daughter? Fine, whatever. Nobody remembers that...

But I was curious how Rogue One seemed to have references to Mesopotamian, specifically Akkadian, primordial gods/creation myths. No spoilers here, just planet names: Lah'mu (=> Lahmu) and Eadu (=> Ea + Eridu or Enkidu?). Then I read that the real-world Jeddah is supposed to be the legendary location of the tomb of Eve or Hawwa, the (grand)mother of all.

And so, by association, I wondered... where is the Mother? TCW accounted for the Father, the Son, and the Daughter, but where is the Mother? The EU's rendition of Abeloth was pretty bonkers, but there is actually a lot of potential in the figure of the primeval Dark Mother/Dark Eve. Basically, Lilith.

But that is not all, of course. In many different versions of Lilith, she mated with Samael (king of demons/angel of death/Satan himself/whatever), as a demonic counterpart couple to Adam and Eve. And Lilith and Samael were both equated with the serpent; in fact, they often seem to be depicted as one mingled androgynous being, a snake demon that was a mix of male and female energies. (In some versions, though, it appears that the primeval snake acted as a sort of go-between for Samael and Lilith?) They have also been equated with Leviathan. Lilith herself has often been depicted as the snake that seduced Eve:



Now, this may sound suspiciously like I'm suggesting Snoke is Rey's mother... (Although Snoke and Lilith have more than snake imagery in common: Lilith seems to have developed and taken aspects from the deities Ishtar and Lamashtu, the latter of which was a demon that preyed upon pregnant women to kill or steal their children, especially boys. Kind of like Snoke did with Leia and Ben.)

... but I'm not really suggesting anything - just that we already have a snake/Snoke and plenty of intriguing imagery (e.g. the tree), so why not a Lilith figure as well? Palpatine was supposedly looking for the "source of the Dark Side", so perhaps this source was actually a Dark Mother. Or a primeval couple, a Dark Mother and a Dark Father. The original fallen ones? (Ancient and immortal - one trapped on Jedha (and guarded by the Whills), the other on Jakku?? Sorry, got a bit carried away here.)

And Rey could be Lilith the Younger, Lilith the Maiden, child of the primeval terrible (and terrifying) mother, and a chance to subvert and integrate the Dark Side of womanhood and become whole. Reclaiming the strength and independence (and sexuality) of Lilith, but rejecting the evil and destructive aspects of her nature. But Lilith the Younger is a seductress as well...

Disclaimer: all this speculation is based on reading here and there on Google Books, not on actual expertise or anything.

But like I've said before, I hope the story will deal with the dark side of femininity somehow, so that it actually is a mythical story about a young woman's growth... instead of Rey just looking on as the male characters go through their interesting developments.

Has anyone ever seen the movie Philomena? I just saw it today and was wondering how Rey's parentage story could have a similar pattern.

The movie is about a journalist helping an old woman find her son. She was forced to give him up by the nuns she lived with. It totally broke her and she spent her whole life thinking about him. She really wanted to meet him finally.

And throughout the movie we get glimpses of film of the son growing up over time. It had such a sad nostalgic feel to it. Ultimately she did find him but he died years ago from AIDS. Turns out he wanted to find her too and went back to Ireland (where his mother is from). I was actually wondering if the journalist would end up being her son (a la Reywalkers XD ) seemed like something dramatic that would happen, but her son was just another person we learn about through the movie clips, people they met along the way like his partner.

The big twist was really that not only did he go looking for her, his wish was actually to be buried in the cemetery of the convent where he was born in Ireland. And so it turned out, the journalist and mother, running around in the US, had to go back to the beginning to find their closure. (And I'm thinking, as many of us are thinking, will Rey return to Jakku in the end for her own final closure?!)
The journalist said this quote that I abolsutely loved and thought was fitting-
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. - TS Elliot.
Perhaps it may even be relevant for Rey.

At the end, it wasn't so much about how grand the twist was or how grand he was as a person (he worked for Reagan) but it was a way for her and the audience to appreciate this other character we don't ever meet alive. How at the end of the way, he was just another human being. I teared up a few times and was thinking I wouldn't mind something like that for Rey. For me I would like to see her journey of finding where she comes from give her some kind of closure or at least an idea of something about herself, whether they be end up being huge characters, good or even evil/bad guys.

I think having that journey with Kylo is also a huge deal for him- it would allow reflection on his own family. Just as the journalist became quite immersed in this lady's story and the justice he wanted her to have, I think Kylo could grow in the compassion he has for her. As Adam said, he's also looking for family and maybe Rey's journey can in part make them realize their future can be together.

I just realized something after watching a recent video by Urban Acolyte regarding Rey's parentage....he mentions  the ship that appears in Rey's vision and it got me thinking- why this one aspect is never explored....after all, whoever left her there was probably on that ship... then I found this tweet by PH regarding Rey's ship:



Now this ship is some sort of civilian star ship and with some digging I located a very similar looking ship in canon....in SW Rebels, there is an episode where the inquisitors attack a passenger ship traveling from the planet Chandel and kill most of the passengers so they can steal a force sensitive baby girl named Alora. Luckily, the baby's grandmother survives the attack and the rebel crew rescue her.

This ship looks a lot like the passenger ship in the concept art, including the red line that runs along its side.



The inquisitors steal both Alora and a baby Ithorian alien boy named Pipey...both are force sensitives. Luckily both are rescued by Ahsoka and the ghost crew, and restored to their respective families.



Here is the interesting thing:

1. The episode's name is the Future of the Force.... the title is extremely telling.

2. Both Pipey and Alora (and Alora's grandmother) wear fabric with the same weird yellow print on it....this makes me think they all belong to some force worshiping group.....the Church of the Force people wear a sash called the Sash of the Balanced...maybe there are other groups with symbols painted on their clothes.

3. Alora is human and has brown hair.

4. Alora would be the right age to be Rey's mother when she grew older....and even if it wasn't her, Rey's parents could belong to the same group or family.

5. This would be a really cool way to tie-in a Rey random story but leave Easter eggs for die hard fans (like they did in RO)

6. Alora and her grandmother's destination was the planet Chandel...a planet covered with water (which brings us to Rey's memories of an ocean and an island...we assume it is Ahch-to...what if its actually Chandel?)

Either she was abandoned by people possibly needing money to leave Jakku on a passenger ship or Unkar kidnapped Rey when she strayed away from the passenger ship in which her family was traveling....if the ship had many families on it like the one in Rebels, maybe Rey's parents didn't even know she was gone until it was too late.

Well Pablo seems to have just destroyed rey random

Lineage is key when it comes to rey

She ain't a solo, she ain't a skywalker

Gemini wrote:Well Pablo seems to have just destroyed rey random

Lineage is key when it comes to rey

She ain't a solo, she ain't a skywalker

@Gemini

I think Rey coming from a family we have never heard of, or just being a nobody and we will never learn of her family or meet her parents is DOA