ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Rogue Rey wrote:Has anyone read the novel Star Wars: Kenobi?

It came out in August 2013 and is about Obi-wan's first few years on Tatooine - including his friendship with a lady called Annileen Calwell.

@Rogue Rey

I have the book....haven't read it yet but I don't think anything came off that...and anyway, its not canon.... I would have really been keen on Rey being a Kenobi if Siri Tachi had been brought into canon.....but right now I prefer a darker lineage for Rey.

panki wrote:

Rogue Rey wrote:Has anyone read the novel Star Wars: Kenobi?

It came out in August 2013 and is about Obi-wan's first few years on Tatooine - including his friendship with a lady called Annileen Calwell.

@Rogue Rey

I have the book....haven't read it yet but I don't think anything came off that...and anyway, its not canon.... I would have really been keen on Rey being a Kenobi if Siri Tachi had been brought into canon.....but right now I prefer a darker lineage for Rey.

@panki

I wasn't trying to imply anything that is in that book = the recent rumours of Rey being a Kenobi.

I'm just looking for the best Star Wars novels to read - I've only read Bloodline so far, and want to read some others and I've always liked Obi-wan so wanted to know if the book was any good. (This was probably not the best place to post that question)

I'm with you I'm leaning more toward Dark origins for Rey.

Rogue Rey wrote:Has anyone read the novel Star Wars: Kenobi?

It came out in August 2013 and is about Obi-wan's first few years on Tatooine - including his friendship with a lady called Annileen Calwell.

@Rogue Rey

I would prefer if Kenobi have a descendant it be with Satine,  (it makes a better story for Rey) but if you want to tell that story of Kenobi on Tatooine having a relationship it should be with someone like Annileen, (better for a  standalone film of Obi Wan)

Rey's parents either one or two of them could be darkside.....

by the way, Kenobi the novel got great reviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHy3OvIFTiE

I can see why people want her to be a Kenobi, although personally I think it would be more interesting if she were a Palpatine.  Although it might be really cool if she were both a Kenobi and a Palpatine.  That might also explain why she seems to be such a Force prodigy and has both light and dark tendencies.

Kyla Ren wrote:I can see why people want her to be a Kenobi, although personally I think it would be more interesting if she were a Palpatine.  Although it might be really cool if she were both a Kenobi and a Palpatine.  That might also explain why she seems to be such a Force prodigy and has both light and dark tendencies.

@Kyla Ren

Rey being a Kenobi and a Palpatine would be interesting and it is something I have thought about but I'm not sure if they'd go there. It'd be cool if they did.

Of the two major heritage options, I personally think that Palpatine is the more interesting one.

On the other hand, Kenobi heritage would be much more in line with the risk-averse approach taken with Rey so far, so from that perspective I find it more likely.

I do get why rey palpatine is interesting but it doesn't make much sense to me because we already have one person who's grandfather is dark, and his grandfather is quite possibly the most famous darksider of them all. Palpatine pales in comparison, why would both characters have a dark grand parent?

I know people say kylo comes from the light and so rey as a natural opposite would come from the dark, however  tfa emphasises his connection to his dark side grandfather much more than his light background.

Naturally rey would come from the opposite which would be a light grand parent, and dark parents.  the connection and emphasis is the grand parents imo

Kylo= dark grand parent, light parents
Rey= light grand parent, dark parents???

Rogue Rey wrote:Rey being a Kenobi and a Palpatine would be interesting and it is something I have thought about but I'm not sure if they'd go there.  It'd be cool if they did.

@Rogue Rey
I don’t know if they would go there, either.  They might want to keep her origins completely light side, although you never know.  I do think she has some dark tendencies and I think those were shown in TFA.  But I guess ultimately we’ll have to wait and see.  I just wish it weren’t such a long wait.

Saracene wrote:Of the two major heritage options, I personally think that Palpatine is the more interesting one.

On the other hand, Kenobi heritage would be much more in line with the risk-averse approach taken with Rey so far, so from that perspective I find it more likely.

@Saracene
You might be right.  They might decide to play it safe.  But I do think it would be interesting for her character if she at least flirted with the dark side or somehow began to move in that direction before coming back to the light or being pulled back by Kylo.  I think that would be interesting even if she had no dark side origins whatsoever.

Gemini wrote:I do get why rey palpatine is interesting but it doesn't make much sense to me because we already have one person who's grandfather is dark, and his grandfather is quite possibly the most famous darksider of them all. Palpatine pales in comparison, why would both characters have a dark grand parent?

I know people say kylo comes from the light and so rey as a natural opposite would come from the dark, however  tfa emphasises his connection to his dark side grandfather much more than his light background.

Naturally rey would come from the opposite which would be a light grand parent, and dark parents.  the connection and emphasis is the grand parents imo

Kylo= dark grand parent, light parents
Rey= light grand parent, dark parents???

@Gemini

I think she could have Obi-Wan as her grandfather and then possibly dark side parents or parents who were somehow involved with the First Order who maybe were killed by the Resistance or something like that.  That would probably make her feel very conflicted.

There's not going to be anything too overtly wacky sci-fi like eggs or cloning if people are still snarking on midichlorians (see the excellent Parks and Recreation episode where Donna & Leslie trick somebody with a report about "midichlorians in the park soil."). If it's Obi-Wan, I hope that it turns out to be something like my initial take, she ends up on Jakku like Tanya in Dr. Zhivago. Whose parents were on the run from an oppressive regime, she's separated from them as a child and grows up alone as an orphan,  and she finds out the truth from an older guardian, played by Obi-Wan himself. Be a nice touch to have it play out this way with Luke as the older man in this situation, especially if it turns out she's a Kenobi. And David Lean is one of the main source materials for Star Wars

Gemini wrote:I do get why rey palpatine is interesting but it doesn't make much sense to me because we already have one person who's grandfather is dark, and his grandfather is quite possibly the most famous darksider of them all. Palpatine pales in comparison, why would both characters have a dark grand parent?

I know people say kylo comes from the light and so rey as a natural opposite would come from the dark, however  tfa emphasises his connection to his dark side grandfather much more than his light background.

Naturally rey would come from the opposite which would be a light grand parent, and dark parents.  the connection and emphasis is the grand parents imo

Kylo= dark grand parent, light parents
Rey= light grand parent, dark parents???

@Gemini

But there would be a different kind of symmetry and poetry in Rey Palpatine. Both characters would be grappling with the weight of heavy legacies from their grandfathers, but beyond that, Vader and Palpatine killed each other and wrought havoc on the galaxy; their grandchildren could be instrumental in saving each other and the galaxy. Palpatine seduced Anakin to the Dark Side; his granddaughter is seducing the latter's grandson to the Light. And so on.

More crucially, what Palpatine started was actually never "made right". The fight is still going on. And Life Debt etc. imply that Palpatine was looking for something, the source of the Dark Side, something ancient and probably very dangerous - something that will probably be the crux of this trilogy.

Kylo feels it's his heavy responsibility to finish what his grandfather started, which will probably end up meaning fixing his grandfather's mistakes. So whose messes is Rey going to clean up? The Skywalkers'? Or wouldn't it be interesting if it were Palpatine's, who after all caused a lot more harm and destruction than Vader did?

It would also be an interesting possibility if Rey's parents weren't evil themselves, but unfairly targeted because of their heritage. Which is what happened to the Skywalker-Solos, too.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Gemini wrote:I do get why rey palpatine is interesting but it doesn't make much sense to me because we already have one person who's grandfather is dark, and his grandfather is quite possibly the most famous darksider of them all. Palpatine pales in comparison, why would both characters have a dark grand parent?

I know people say kylo comes from the light and so rey as a natural opposite would come from the dark, however  tfa emphasises his connection to his dark side grandfather much more than his light background.

Naturally rey would come from the opposite which would be a light grand parent, and dark parents.  the connection and emphasis is the grand parents imo

Kylo= dark grand parent, light parents
Rey= light grand parent, dark parents???

@Gemini

But there would be a different kind of symmetry and poetry in Rey Palpatine. Both characters would be grappling with the weight of heavy legacies from their grandfathers, but beyond that, Vader and Palpatine killed each other and wrought havoc on the galaxy; their grandchildren could be instrumental in saving each other and the galaxy. Palpatine seduced Anakin to the Dark Side; his granddaughter is seducing the latter's grandson to the Light. And so on.

More crucially, what Palpatine started was actually never "made right". The fight is still going on. And Life Debt etc. imply that Palpatine was looking for something, the source of the Dark Side, something ancient and probably very dangerous - something that will probably be the crux of this trilogy.

Kylo feels it's his heavy responsibility to finish what his grandfather started, which will probably end up meaning fixing his grandfather's mistakes. So whose messes is Rey going to clean up? The Skywalkers'? Or wouldn't it be interesting if it were Palpatine's, who after all caused a lot more harm and destruction than Vader did?

It would also be an interesting possibility if Rey's parents weren't evil themselves, but unfairly targeted because of their heritage. Which is what happened to the Skywalker-Solos, too.

@Darth Dingbat

I think that would make for a very interesting story.  And it would be something that she and Kylo would have in common.

Watched the new rebel episode, there is not even a slightest hint that links Rey and Kenobi. Collider Jedi Council is a joke. I guess you just can't take Kirstian Harloff seriously when he made a big fuss about someone being force sensitive after reading the Catalyst book.

soulluos wrote:Watched the new rebel episode, there is not even a slightest hint that links Rey and Kenobi. Collider Jedi Council is a joke.

@soulluos

Kind of like the "someone is FS in Catalyst!!!!" thing, then...

when Luke found out Vader was his father, there was no "star wars" saga, it was only the second movie. Now we are 7 movies into the saga
tons of Palpatine in the prequels mainly this image of him....




I can't imagine Reylo actually getting together at the end of this saga and having children if Rey is a Palpatine... Palpatine's bloodline mixed with the skywalkers bloodline?



and now we have this adorable hot mess







so you have to consider how a person twenty years from now will view the saga if Rey is a Palpatine...does it change the overall narrative of the saga? does it make the saga better in anyway? does it add an octave in the chord?


my feelings?



Does Rey Palpatine sell toys?

@spacebaby45678 - "does it sell toys/product?" has been part of why I've thought the Rey's granddad is the Evil Emperor is a Dark Horse theory at best. If it's the Kenobi theory, either her parents were part of the same targeting that happened to the much more high level Skywalker family as potential opponents to whatever Snoke is up to. If he's crafty enough to have ID'd Leia in the early stages of her pregnancy to take out the child as somebody powerful enough to stop whatever he's up to, he'd be crafty enough to ID other families and potential offspring. And we know that there's some kind of Jakku connection happening. Kenobi or Random, I'd be really surprised if it didn't turn out that her family was simply eliminated as part of the FO starting to marshall its forces and centralize power. She's been a fugitive from that group likely from the time that she was separated from her parents.

Forgot one more detail relating to David Lean for Rey having a backstory a la Dr. Zhivago, Bridge on the River Kwai (also starring Sir Alec Guinness) is one of the main movies cited as an influence for VIII and not hard to see it'll be part of the Ache-to/working together plot line.

Hmm, I'm not sure how Rey's toys would sell less, no matter who her grandparents are...

But, you know... that's the problem with adding to existing stories. You add something, you always simultaneously take something away. The PT changed the nature of the OT to the point that many fans would rather prefer not to think of the PT at all... and the midi-chlorians have been collectively swept under the carpet. Some say TFA has already ruined their childhood. Such is life. I enjoy Rebels but if you'd asked me, I would have preferred that story not to have been told. Having lightsaber-wielders going on adventures around the galaxy just a short while before ANH takes away from the mystique of the OT.

For me, Obi-Wan having previously unknown children would take away a layer of the story and character I thought I knew. For others, Palpatine having children would change the nature of the villain they thought they knew. Whether Lucasfilm's ideas accord with the audience's is another matter - when it comes to old Palps, don't forget that Lucas himself wanted to tell a sympathetic backstory for him, and that story may yet be told one day. Same with Kenobi, Lucasfilm's idea of him might not accord with mine at all. If so, so be it.

As for the overall narrative of the saga... well, who knows? We don't even know the story yet, so I can't guess how somebody would view it 20 years from now. If the final trilogy is about a Skywalker and a Palpatine saving the galaxy their grandparents wrecked, I can personally see the poetry in that. Especially if they're basically fixing some fatal mistake their grandfathers set in motion. And no, for me the idea of Palpatine having had a child once wouldn't reduce his villainy at all. But if they go ahead with the supposedly sympathetic backstory of his younger years, then that naturally might. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

I tend to think Rey is a (Not-So-)Random anyway, but I could still see Palpatine done well.

I go back and forth on Rey's origins a lot. I do think that there's been a lot of hints towards Kenobi lately, but I just have this feeling that it won't be as straightforward as Obi-Wan having a secret kid who turned out to be Rey's mother or father.

I don't know what the catch will be, but it sounds like TPTB, at least for now, want to preserve that Obi-Wan followed the Jedi code. I don't know if this means they'd go with some sort of cloning or secret sibling thing or what, but I just get this feeling that we're going to have a Kenobi connection of some sort without him having a kid that he didn't know about.

My guess is still that Rey's origins are something like Vestara Khai: she comes from a tribe who worships the Dark Side (Sith tribe, whatever, something like that), and whatever happened to her parents had something to do with either Snoke or the New Republic. Either way, it'd make the reason why she's been left on Jakku more important than who her parents are, and it would make sense with what Daisy said about all this.

I still have a fondness for Rey Palpatine, though, even if I'm pretty sure it won't happen. XD

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I go back and forth on Rey's origins a lot. I do think that there's been a lot of hints towards Kenobi lately, but I just have this feeling that it won't be as straightforward as Obi-Wan having a secret kid who turned out to be Rey's mother or father.

I don't know what the catch will be, but it sounds like TPTB, at least for now, want to preserve that Obi-Wan followed the Jedi code. I don't know if this means they'd go with some sort of cloning or secret sibling thing or what, but I just get this feeling that we're going to have a Kenobi connection of some sort without him having a kid that he didn't know about.

@ISeeAnIsland

There's a definite pattern of Easter Egg references to him that are all around Rey. Question is does it mean anything more than just paying homage to that character? The most curious part to me still is that there's a clear link, via the vision, that both he and the fallen Jedi who's his namesake each have to Rey. Morso than any link a lot of audience members have argued she has to Luke. It's not just the moment when she's introduced to both of them (because they interact directly with her) but more importantly introduces that she's the FS character for the ST. Beyond that, he speaks directly to her with her name and in Ewan McGregor's words, 'it's through the Force.' He still exists in that world as a sentient being and he knows enough about her to reach directly out to her and call her by her name. Beyond that, if she's a relative or descendant, we don't know enough yet. Same can be argued about DS origins, but there's not nearly as many Easter Eggs (including in the vision) related to those characters as there are for Obi-Wan.

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I go back and forth on Rey's origins a lot. I do think that there's been a lot of hints towards Kenobi lately, but I just have this feeling that it won't be as straightforward as Obi-Wan having a secret kid who turned out to be Rey's mother or father.

I don't know what the catch will be, but it sounds like TPTB, at least for now, want to preserve that Obi-Wan followed the Jedi code. I don't know if this means they'd go with some sort of cloning or secret sibling thing or what, but I just get this feeling that we're going to have a Kenobi connection of some sort without him having a kid that he didn't know about.

@ISeeAnIsland

There's a definite pattern of Easter Egg references to him that are all around Rey. Question is does it mean anything more than just paying homage to that character? The most curious part to me still is that there's a clear link via the vision that both he and the fallen Jedi whose his namesake each have to Rey. It's the moment when she's introduced to both of them (because they interact directly with her) and also that she's FS. Beyond that, he speaks directly to her with her name and in Ewan McGregor's words, 'it's through the Force.' So he still exists on some level as a sentient being and he knows enough about her to reach directly out to her and call her by her name.

@snufkin

Going by what's been said Kylo knows of Rey but doesn't know her - perhaps its similar for Obi-wan - doesn't know her but knows of her???

Anyway I've been think maybe I'm looking at the wrong Kenobi connection to the new trilogy.  I've been so sure that the Kenobi connection is to Rey (and it most likely will be) but it could just be the connection to Kylo.  

I'm not saying they're related - because they're clearly not even if they do share a name.  

But the sharing of the name is yet another weight on Kylo Ren's shoulders - being a Skywalker/Organa/Solo and his first name being Ben after we can only assume Obi-wan (even if Harrison Ford had a say on the name and it oh so conveniently fitted ).

Maybe the Obi-wan involvement is going to remain through Luke and Leia's line??  Which then would mean that Rey isn't going to be burdened by legacy and a legendary name because Kylo's got that covered.

Just a musing I had.  Which then leads me to at myself because it just makes me move toward Rey random.

Gosh I just cannot decide - I go between Rey random/Kenobi/Palpatine so often I might get whiplash!

Rogue Rey wrote:
@snufkin

Going by what's been said Kylo knows of Rey but doesn't know her - perhaps its similar for Obi-wan - doesn't know her but knows of her???

Anyway I've been think maybe I'm looking at the wrong Kenobi connection to the new trilogy.  I've been so sure that the Kenobi connection is to Rey (and it most likely will be) but it could just be the connection to Kylo.  

I'm not saying they're related - because they're clearly not even if they do share a name.  

But the sharing of the name is yet another weight on Kylo Ren's shoulders - being a Skywalker/Organa/Solo and his first name being Ben after we can only assume Obi-wan (even if Harrison Ford had a say on the name and it oh so conveniently fitted ).

Maybe the Obi-wan involvement is going to remain through Luke and Leia's line??  Which then would mean that Rey isn't going to be burdened by legacy and a legendary name because Kylo's got that covered.

Just a musing I had.  Which then leads me to at myself because it just makes me move toward Rey random.

Gosh I just cannot decide - I go between Rey random/Kenobi/Palpatine so often I might get whiplash!

@Rogue Rey

I don't recommend whiplash, it's no fun recovering from it!

You may be right that he knows of her, but not specifically her through a family connection. It's hard to say at this point because we don't know what the consistent pattern of Easter Eggs/callbacks around her mean. There are other examples of dialogue callbacks to the first movie and ESB in TFA. But with Poe telling Finn "stay sharp!" the same way Han tells Luke, you don't see anybody arguing that means Poe is secretly Han and Leia's kid. There's certainly enough collateral evidence (including early casting rumors) to throw weight behind there being a family connection. But we just don't have enough of the story yet to know for sure. For all we know, maybe there was a sperm bank on Tatooine and during the particularly hard times when he was broke and hungry, Obi-Wan made a couple of donations and one of them was used by Rey's biological mother ; ).

Personally I think even if they went the route of showing a family connection, it'll be a throw away at the end after the conclusion. Kind of like how the Ark of the Covenant is carted off into a warehouse.

Rogue Rey wrote:

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I go back and forth on Rey's origins a lot. I do think that there's been a lot of hints towards Kenobi lately, but I just have this feeling that it won't be as straightforward as Obi-Wan having a secret kid who turned out to be Rey's mother or father.

I don't know what the catch will be, but it sounds like TPTB, at least for now, want to preserve that Obi-Wan followed the Jedi code. I don't know if this means they'd go with some sort of cloning or secret sibling thing or what, but I just get this feeling that we're going to have a Kenobi connection of some sort without him having a kid that he didn't know about.

@ISeeAnIsland

There's a definite pattern of Easter Egg references to him that are all around Rey. Question is does it mean anything more than just paying homage to that character? The most curious part to me still is that there's a clear link via the vision that both he and the fallen Jedi whose his namesake each have to Rey. It's the moment when she's introduced to both of them (because they interact directly with her) and also that she's FS. Beyond that, he speaks directly to her with her name and in Ewan McGregor's words, 'it's through the Force.' So he still exists on some level as a sentient being and he knows enough about her to reach directly out to her and call her by her name.

@snufkin

Going by what's been said Kylo knows of Rey but doesn't know her - perhaps its similar for Obi-wan - doesn't know her but knows of her???

Anyway I've been think maybe I'm looking at the wrong Kenobi connection to the new trilogy.  I've been so sure that the Kenobi connection is to Rey (and it most likely will be) but it could just be the connection to Kylo.  

I'm not saying they're related - because they're clearly not even if they do share a name.  

But the sharing of the name is yet another weight on Kylo Ren's shoulders - being a Skywalker/Organa/Solo and his first name being Ben after we can only assume Obi-wan (even if Harrison Ford had a say on the name and it oh so conveniently fitted ).

Maybe the Obi-wan involvement is going to remain through Luke and Leia's line??  Which then would mean that Rey isn't going to be burdened by legacy and a legendary name because Kylo's got that covered.

Just a musing I had.  Which then leads me to at myself because it just makes me move toward Rey random.

Gosh I just cannot decide - I go between Rey random/Kenobi/Palpatine so often I might get whiplash!

@Rogue Rey

Me, too.  There are some theories I find more interesting and that I like more than others, but I just can't decide.  I just don't think there is a lot of really solid evidence that points to anyone in TFA.  There are little things here and there that could possibly be hints or clues, but nothing definite in my opinion.  And despite what Daisy said in that Time Out interview, I don't think a lot was answered about her backstory at all in TFA.  Unless she meant she thought it should be obvious that she wasn't related to Luke, Leia, or Han.  But beyond that, I think her origins and backstory are a mystery.

I'm temporarily done with Rey's parentage speculation

Kyla Ren wrote:

Rogue Rey wrote:

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I go back and forth on Rey's origins a lot. I do think that there's been a lot of hints towards Kenobi lately, but I just have this feeling that it won't be as straightforward as Obi-Wan having a secret kid who turned out to be Rey's mother or father.

I don't know what the catch will be, but it sounds like TPTB, at least for now, want to preserve that Obi-Wan followed the Jedi code. I don't know if this means they'd go with some sort of cloning or secret sibling thing or what, but I just get this feeling that we're going to have a Kenobi connection of some sort without him having a kid that he didn't know about.

@ISeeAnIsland

There's a definite pattern of Easter Egg references to him that are all around Rey. Question is does it mean anything more than just paying homage to that character? The most curious part to me still is that there's a clear link via the vision that both he and the fallen Jedi whose his namesake each have to Rey. It's the moment when she's introduced to both of them (because they interact directly with her) and also that she's FS. Beyond that, he speaks directly to her with her name and in Ewan McGregor's words, 'it's through the Force.' So he still exists on some level as a sentient being and he knows enough about her to reach directly out to her and call her by her name.

@snufkin

Going by what's been said Kylo knows of Rey but doesn't know her - perhaps its similar for Obi-wan - doesn't know her but knows of her???

Anyway I've been think maybe I'm looking at the wrong Kenobi connection to the new trilogy.  I've been so sure that the Kenobi connection is to Rey (and it most likely will be) but it could just be the connection to Kylo.  

I'm not saying they're related - because they're clearly not even if they do share a name.  

But the sharing of the name is yet another weight on Kylo Ren's shoulders - being a Skywalker/Organa/Solo and his first name being Ben after we can only assume Obi-wan (even if Harrison Ford had a say on the name and it oh so conveniently fitted ).

Maybe the Obi-wan involvement is going to remain through Luke and Leia's line??  Which then would mean that Rey isn't going to be burdened by legacy and a legendary name because Kylo's got that covered.

Just a musing I had.  Which then leads me to at myself because it just makes me move toward Rey random.

Gosh I just cannot decide - I go between Rey random/Kenobi/Palpatine so often I might get whiplash!

@Rogue Rey

Me, too.  There are some theories I find more interesting and that I like more than others, but I just can't decide.  I just don't think there is a lot of really solid evidence that points to anyone in TFA.  There are little things here and there that could possibly be hints or clues, but nothing definite in my opinion.  And despite what Daisy said in that Time Out interview, I don't think a lot was answered about her backstory at all in TFA.  Unless she meant she thought it should be obvious that she wasn't related to Luke, Leia, or Han.  But beyond that, I think her origins and backstory are a mystery.

@Kyla Ren

Same like you I think perhaps she meant more that it answers who Rey isn't related to rather than answer who she is related to.