Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 10

by Rimfaxe96 Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:52 am

snufkin wrote:Murderous yes, tyrant seems like a bit of a stretch seeing as how he and Hux are perpetually jockeying for the title of Assistant Supreme Leader. He's got an entourage and limo. Otherwise that kid's pretty limited in who he's getting to warlord over. And I'd place my bet on something that was a combination of arrogance/selfishness/hubris, plus feeling disillusioned by the systems he was born into (something Luke did), and getting a very effective sales pitch from Snoke to branch out to the true path and stop being somebody else's follower. If Rey supposed saw "something" in his mind, it can't just be 100% he's a sociopath. (tl;dr - I'd be surprised if he doesn't turn out to be like Pasha/Strelnikov in Dr. Zhivago).

As for the murderous part, no doubt there. When and if that bomb gets dropped in public (poor Leia on top of everything else) interesting that the two groups referred to in TFA could easily describe Rey, both FS novice and humble Jakku dweller.

@snufkin

Huh, agreed. And even the "murderous" part is limited to those times someone ticks him off. Other than that he just seems to be some kind of lackey people call when there's an extra-stubborn prisoner for him to "question". It's hard to tell what other sort of missions he might get sent to, except for a few battles every now and then to expand FO territory - but that's stormtrooper work too, so not quite special. scratch

IMO Hux still has the upper hand at the moment in their little hierarchy war. He's a 100% loyal fanatic, the best type of right hand henchman a guy like Snoke needs. Destroy a few planets? Sure, no problem boss. In the meantime Kylo has his enemies coming right to him and he fails, despite being gifted with the Force. Bad bad bad lackey, I'm sure this will be addressed in VIII.

by Jakku Mon 19 Sep 2016, 6:01 am

If nobody in the FO knows anything about Kylo Ren's real identity, then that moment when LST said "You cannot deny the truth that is your family" was dangerous in more than one way. If LST had carried on talking, Stormtroopers would have heard and started to put two and two together. If Snoke has commanded that Kylo's identity be kept secret, then it was imperative that LST be silenced. (They couldn't even take him prisoner, because he might still have blabbed. Kylo could have done a "Pull the division" on him, but he couldn't keep him unconscious permanently. He'd have to be killed eventually.)

So the killing of LST wasn't necessarily down to Kylo's temper. It was a matter of security.

Presumably he didn't know that LST knew his real identity until that encounter.

Edited to add: That may be why the villagers had to be killed. LST may have revealed Kylo's identity to them. And that adds something to the scene with Han. The moment Han says "the face of my son", the game is up. There are lots of stormtroopers watching. They now know exactly who Kylo is. Ben could take off his mask with Rey because she couldn''t possibly recognise him or know who he was.

by Darth_Awakened Mon 19 Sep 2016, 6:12 am

I can see why Leia is hiding it, but I wonder why would Kylo (obviously very proud of his grandad and his achievements) hide it?

by Reylo Lemon Mon 19 Sep 2016, 7:01 am

Darth_Awakened wrote:I can see why Leia is hiding it, but I wonder why would Kylo (obviously very proud of his grandad and his achievements) hide it?

@Darth_Awakened

I think it is linked through the "discovery" Rey made during the interrogation scene, that is probably a bombshell for him and for the audience itself

by Irina de France Mon 19 Sep 2016, 9:22 am

I dunno, I know it has some holes to it, but the theory that Ben joined the Resistance for a while and had to be abandoned during a mission starts looking more and more plausible...

Argh, something big is going on and it kills me not to know! Laughing

by motherofpearl1 Mon 19 Sep 2016, 9:40 am

Something terrible happened to Ben Solo, I'm absolutely sure of it. Not only do we have those little hints in the junior novel - Han wanting his son to forgive him, the 'sadness' in Ben's eyes - but Wendig's Aftermath: Life Debt is dropping a few clues.

Although a lot of so called 'spoilers' are probably Censored

some of them seem to be accurate - particularly the ones about Rey refusing to kill Kylo.

Just what is it that changes her mind? She may feel guilty about his scar,but there has to be more to it than that.

by Kylo Ren Tue 20 Sep 2016, 7:11 am

I want this!!! However I MF hate Windu:

Kylo Skywalker Rey Palpatine and Finn Windu....this....this answers all!! Like why the hell is Finn so important...why doesn't Kylo kill him and why is he a traitor!!!
Plus...The Force awakens in Finn....when Snoke says it....no way....
Thanx @sforza!!!

by motherofpearl1 Tue 20 Sep 2016, 8:28 am

Irina de France wrote:I dunno, I know it has some holes to it, but the theory that Ben joined the Resistance for a while and had to be abandoned during a mission starts looking more and more plausible...

Argh, something big is going on and it kills me not to know!

@Irina de France

For me, it all boils down to one thing: Kylo feels a connection to Rey. And that connection seems to be a feeling of abandonment. It's what makes Rey different to Finn - he was stolen,not abandoned -and what makes Kylo feel akin to her.
We have yet to see what form that abandonment took. It could simply be Leia sending him to Luke....but that is a 'sending' not a'leaving'. I'm convinced something happened afterwards.

by motherofpearl1 Thu 22 Sep 2016, 9:59 am

SoloSideCousin wrote:
SanghaRen wrote:I am also in the "no yellow eyes for Kylo" club. That one would kill the redemption and would make no sense at this point. A yellow eyed Rey would be more to my taste. I'd love to see the face of some people in the theater. Perfect sweet flower Rey ~~Skywalker~~ turning into a sith... And Kylo saving her from the Dark Side as the icing on the cake... Please, can we have that?

Why am I in such a machiavelic mood today? Oh, that's right, first week back to work after a long holiday. I am out for blood.
@SanghaRen

Sing it @SanghaRen!!!!!

Macha Ren wrote:Or to play devil's advocate, do Luke's eyes briefly turn yellow, and that's why he went into hiding?
@Macha Ren

I'd be on board with this. :-) To be totally honest, I have never found Luke that interesting. And even as a little kid back in 1983, I thought his sudden turn to Jedi zen-ness seemed to come out of nowhere and made him less of a flesh and blood human being. The dude's a Skywalker. They're not the most stable bunch, lol. I'd love it if Luke had a bit of a meltdown and had to rethink everything and pull himself back togeher. :-)

@snufkin

"
Forget the charter school jokes, now I'm thinking it's something like Deep Springs College. Which is a very unique weird regional college out here that's young men only where they go through the total Robert Bly right of passage thing. It's actually very prestigious in terms of alumni going on to Ivy League schools and advanced academic degrees (I using to work with a f***ing brilliant cardiologist who's an alumni). So if they were off doing that sort of Iron John Jedi stuff and something went wrong, including the other students ganging up on already troubled Ben after the Vader bombshell (like what happened to his mother), things could wrong and Snoke could use it as a crime of opportunity.

Either way, the 'spoiler' isn't anything which we've already speculated about here and which sounds like got edited out of the original plan for VII and Rey's vision. Sounds like she'll get the rest of the puzzle and that will play into the guilt/weird compassion she already has for him after having kicked his a** and left him on SKB. Could also play at him showing up in a rage, that he thought she was different but she's like the rest of the FS youths who turned on him."

I agree with all of this. :-) But the bolded particularly grabbed me. I have never been a fan of the "he wants to kill her" spoiler. It never felt quite in character to me ... but this ... the anger coming from a place of really vulnerable hurt, as opposed to some effort to do Snoke's bidding or to get darker (To me, Snoke was already shown to be a liar when Kylo got weaker from killing Han), feels much truer to me. From AD's performance I definitely get the sense that at the bottom of it all that Kylo/Ben is a very hurt person, like wounded animal hurt ... and a sense of how she may have been like the others would bring out "wounded animal" blind rage for sure.

@SoloSideCousin

That's my opinion of him as well, his anger is hiding his pain. The deleted scene where he finds the Falcon was for me the biggest clue to Kylo Ren's inner hurt than anything.
I have this image in VIII of him confronting Rey, all full of pain fulled rage and then Rey revealing she has compassion - or at least understanding - for him,and completely taking the wind out of his sails! Shocked

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2016, 11:18 am

Additional filming for Episode VIII in October with Carrie Fisher http://www.jedinews.co.uk/film-music-tv/articles/additional-photography-episode-viii-take-place-october/

by MeadowofAshes Thu 22 Sep 2016, 11:22 am

@motherofpearl1 @solosidecousin If her refusal to fight includes some variation of "You don't belong in the First Order - you're just lonely and afraid to leave" I will lose my Sith in the theatre. Crying or Very sad

by motherofpearl1 Thu 22 Sep 2016, 12:29 pm

MeadowofAshes wrote:@motherofpearl1 @solosidecousin If her refusal to fight includes some variation of "You don't belong in the First Order - you're just lonely and afraid to leave" I will lose my Sith in the theatre.

@MeadowofAshes

Ditto.

by SanghaRen Thu 22 Sep 2016, 12:35 pm

@Mrs Ben Solo

More Leia!! Happy to hear that.

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

SanghaRen wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo

More Leia!! Happy to hear that.

@SanghaRen

I'm also happy at this news. I love Leia! I am wondering what is going to be filmed, though.

by snufkin Thu 22 Sep 2016, 1:20 pm

MeadowofAshes wrote:@motherofpearl1 @solosidecousin If her refusal to fight includes some variation of "You don't belong in the First Order - you're just lonely and afraid to leave" I will lose my Sith in the theatre.

@MeadowofAshes

I'm a perverse personality, so I would love it if anything close to a "I am your father" shocker would be Rey dropping the bomb on him that she knows stuff from being in his mind, beyond just the revelation of his biggest fear. That detail alone was very good at showing that she's able to see through the smoke screen he's presenting to both the world and himself. Or at least she's able to break through his facade and provoke a response out of him more effectively than either LST or Han was able to do. But a moment like that would not only shock his sense of 2 dimensional heroic self image the same way it did for Luke, but also complicate the dynamic between them as more than just good guy (girl?) versus bad guy.

Not so much spoilery, but with the remake of Seven Samurai's inspired Magnificent Seven, EW has a nice write up about the Kurosawa original and its major themes:

Seven Samurai is so much more than the original Magnificent Seven Appreciating Akira Kurosawa's sharp, humane, melancholy epic.

Everyone knows about Seven Samurai. Has everyone seen it? It’s Kurosawa’s longest movie — I’m not sure anyone’s racing to see a 200-minute black-and-white subtitled movie. You should. It’s a grand adventure, but also a wry human tragicomedy, ambiguous like Hollywood never is, ambitious in scope, insidiously willing to test the loyalties of the audience.

The film’s action has been much imitated. But it’s the desperate, yearning humanity that makes Seven Samurai truly magnificent.

by snufkin Thu 22 Sep 2016, 3:13 pm

And because I just spent part of my morning on the phone haggling over car accident financial issues, I had a couple pages open to browse during the being put on hold portion of my phone calls. Besides the Seven Samurai appreciation posted above, I just read this little gem of an insight. It's about Mr Robot, but I think a lot of it also speaks to modern audience expectations and how they've been shaped by television becoming more dominant. Bonus detail, comparing shows directed by the people who are directing VIII and VII respectively:

Mr Robot's Weakness is in being too clever

there are subsidiary plot-character questions — maybe I should say “issues”— that will need to be resolved, and that won’t be easy to resolve without making Mr. Robot feel less like the new Breaking Bad, an audience-tormenting potboiler that nearly always played fair and maintained psychological plausibility in its characters from start to finish, than the new Lost, which kept dropping new and increasingly contrived revelations about its people to help the show’s writers dig their way out of deep holes, and that routinely tried to solve large storytelling problems by pulling a rabbit out of a hat, then producing new hats with new rabbits the following week. I adore Lost, and being another Lost is not the worst fate for a TV show, but you know what I’m getting at.

I never really watched Breaking Bad, but I did watch the first few episodes of Lost because they had a pretty brilliant poster campaign all over BART (regional subway system) in San Francisco that got me interested. But once they started to go down the conspiracy theory route (instead of the Survivor route, but remember I'm from the Donner Party part of the world so that's what speaks to me personally), I completely lost interest. I personally hope that VIII goes the BB route instead of getting silly like Lost.

by AceofWands Thu 22 Sep 2016, 4:17 pm

Rimfaxe96 wrote:
vaderito wrote:Wasn't Edwards inspired by Sands of Iwo Jima? There are quite a few war movies set in the Pacific that R1 tries to evoke.
@vaderito

Hmm, good point. Haven't seen Sands of Iwo Jima but from what I'm used to in games it's quite obvious that a beach like this:

...can be easier transformed into a threatening-danger-foreboding setting than a beach like this one:

But that shouldn't suggest that it's impossible to do, of course. From what I've seen in the make-of preview trailer I'm actually quite confident that they'll go about it the right way (sand flying around from impacts and stuff like that to give the scenes more dynamic power).

edit; Ha, with that in mind I can already imagine how much more dark VIII might be. Ahch-To has more craggy cliffs rather than beaches, perfect for danger or drama.

@Rimfaxe96

Exactly. Well, videogames have battles in beaches, near waterfalls, etc. Halo usually has beautiful sceneries, like this:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 10 - Page 20 BeachAssault

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 10 - Page 20 BeachAssault

I think videogame players will relate to the beach setting.

by ReyofLightSide Thu 22 Sep 2016, 7:05 pm

Since the movies usually open with a shot of a ship, I wonder if it will be the ship talking injured Kylo back? Since there will not be a time jump...

by Birdwoman Thu 22 Sep 2016, 8:37 pm

I am watching Disney's version of Beauty and the Beast with my kids. The part where the beast saves Belle from wolves and she saves him by bringing him injured back to the castle. They formed a truce then...made me think that spoiler of Rey and Kylo talking to each other.... maybe after Kylo saves Rey and Rey saves Kylo then they start to form a reluctant alliance or at least a truce. This could be where Luke becomes enraged because they have formed a truce and he wanted her to kill his nephew. Hut Blows up and that even forces to develop a closer bond because Uncle Luke is being kind of crazy. Then slowly their feelings start to change even more.....

This is total headcanon though.... Smile

by Helix Thu 22 Sep 2016, 8:43 pm

Birdwoman wrote:I am watching Disney'Store version of Beauty and the Beast with my kids. The part where the beast saves Belle from wolves and she saves him by bring him injured back to the castle. They formed a truce then...made me think that spoiler of Rey and Kylo talking to each other maybe after the fact something happened where they saved each other from danger? Then their feeling start to change.

@Birdwoman

Maybe from the rumored/spoiler monster? It can echo the Rathtar rescue. Razz

by EchoBase Fri 23 Sep 2016, 3:41 am

https://twitter.com/daisyridreynews/status/779164815138881536

Wow, her hair is long again suddenly, I wonder if she wears extensions and if some reshoots are scheduled Wink

.

by Darth_Awakened Fri 23 Sep 2016, 4:09 am

EchoBase wrote:https://twitter.com/daisyridreynews/status/779164815138881536

Wow, her hair is long again suddenly, I wonder if she wears extensions and if some reshoots are scheduled .

@EchoBase

I must say that darker hair suits her much better, than orange nuance.

by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2016, 6:18 am

Darth_Awakened wrote:
EchoBase wrote:https://twitter.com/daisyridreynews/status/779164815138881536

Wow, her hair is long again suddenly, I wonder if she wears extensions and if some reshoots are scheduled .
@EchoBase

I must say that darker hair suits her much better, than orange nuance.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree

by motherofpearl1 Fri 23 Sep 2016, 6:28 am

Believe it or not some trolls are calling her 'plain'.

Add this to the horrible comments about Adam and I wish some people would grow up,get a life or get off the internet. Evil or Very Mad

by Reylo Lemon Fri 23 Sep 2016, 6:51 am

motherofpearl1 wrote:Believe it or not some trolls are calling her 'plain'.

Add this to the horrible comments about Adam and I wish some people would grow up,get a life or get off the internet.

@motherofpearl1

I wish I could be physically like her Sad

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