Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 1

by SoloSideCousin Thu 05 May 2016, 1:07 pm

BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin Did JJ really say that? I've never read that! That's amazing. There really are so many clues in TFA but if you're not attuned to them, they can easily go over your head. That's what makes it so powerful. I love the idea of people rewatching it after 8 or 9 and being like 'ohhhh, I totally see it now!'

@BastilaBey

I will have to find it among my million tabs and bookmarks, but unless I dreamed it, I remember reading an interviewer asking him about a "central love story", and JJ saying "Yes ... but we're going to do it a little differently."

by ISeeAnIsland Thu 05 May 2016, 1:25 pm

SoloSideCousin wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin Did JJ really say that? I've never read that! That's amazing. There really are so many clues in TFA but if you're not attuned to them, they can easily go over your head. That's what makes it so powerful. I love the idea of people rewatching it after 8 or 9 and being like 'ohhhh, I totally see it now!'
@BastilaBey

I will have to find it among my million tabs and bookmarks, but unless I dreamed it, I remember reading an interviewer asking him about a "central love story", and JJ saying "Yes ... but we're going to do it a little differently."

@SoloSideCousin

I remember that interview.

To me, there are a LOT of different ways that Reylo would be a romance done "a little differently". First, you've got the protagonist-antagonist dynamic, then on top of that, they're both Force Sensitive. I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a teacher-student dynamic that comes to the forefront between them at some point (we already know that Kylo has been teaching Rey through the Force). And then there's the yin-yang, etc, dynamic.

They don't even need to tick all of the above boxes for most people to see it as "a romance done a little differently".

by vaderito Thu 05 May 2016, 1:32 pm

SoloSideCousin wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin Did JJ really say that? I've never read that! That's amazing. There really are so many clues in TFA but if you're not attuned to them, they can easily go over your head. That's what makes it so powerful. I love the idea of people rewatching it after 8 or 9 and being like 'ohhhh, I totally see it now!'
@BastilaBey

I will have to find it among my million tabs and bookmarks, but unless I dreamed it, I remember reading an interviewer asking him about a "central love story", and JJ saying "Yes ... but we're going to do it a little differently."

@SoloSideCousin

I want that quote and link for my archive. So pressure is on. Twisted Evil

by snufkin Thu 05 May 2016, 1:50 pm

@vaderito, would that happen to be the Imperial Archives? So based on what I've read here making the most sense of anything I've read on the Internet during my "What the Hell did I just see, because I'm pretty sure I knew what I saw even if it was family friendly Disney movie?" phase, this place comes closest to making the most sense/having it best figured out. There may be an onslaught of people down the road once things become more clear.

by Darth Dingbat Thu 05 May 2016, 2:00 pm

SoloSideCousin wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:@solosidecousin Did JJ really say that? I've never read that! That's amazing. There really are so many clues in TFA but if you're not attuned to them, they can easily go over your head. That's what makes it so powerful. I love the idea of people rewatching it after 8 or 9 and being like 'ohhhh, I totally see it now!'
@BastilaBey

I will have to find it among my million tabs and bookmarks, but unless I dreamed it, I remember reading an interviewer asking him about a "central love story", and JJ saying "Yes ... but we're going to do it a little differently."

@SoloSideCousin

This is from as far back as 2013!

http://www.contactmusic.com/jj-abrams/news/j-j-abrams-wanted-michael-arndt-before-star-wars_3721042

The 46-year-old super-producer was careful not to give too much away about the hotly-anticipated film's plot, but revealed there will be a central love story.

Quizzed about the possibility of on-screen romance, he said: ''No doubt, even if I already know I want to approach this project in a different way ... We're only in the initial stages [of making the film] and it's difficult to talk about it other than to say it's very exciting.''

by vaderito Thu 05 May 2016, 2:11 pm

I put it in archives of the Empire. It's from the time when Arndt wrote the script so things could've have changed. or not. Kira and Jedi Killer have always been there.

by ISeeAnIsland Thu 05 May 2016, 5:12 pm

Re: the leak about Rey and Luke's costumes a little while back, I wonder if Rey loses her grey vest and lets her hair down before or after Kylo shows up on Ahch-To. Confus

by Guest Thu 05 May 2016, 5:14 pm

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Re: the leak about Rey and Luke's costumes a little while back, I wonder if Rey loses her grey vest and lets her hair down before or after Kylo shows up on Ahch-To.

@ISeeAnIsland

Oooh! I'd say after. Maybe her hair gets loose and her grey vest gets damaged beyond repair while fighting/running away from Kylo or a KoR (if they show up like in Rry's vision).

by BastilaBey Thu 05 May 2016, 5:18 pm

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Re: the leak about Rey and Luke's costumes a little while back, I wonder if Rey loses her grey vest and lets her hair down before or after Kylo shows up on Ahch-To.

@ISeeAnIsland

As long as Kylo sees her with her hair down and they have him clearly check her out again...

by FrolickingFizzgig Thu 05 May 2016, 6:11 pm

So I decided to do a little digging because the dates of these interviews were kind of intriguing to me:

Here we have a Tweet from Pablo confirming that "Finn" and "Maz" weren't part of the story when JJ and Kasdan took over the script from Michael Arndt:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 1 - Page 39 KjgtjLQ

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 1 - Page 39 KjgtjLQ

So my first question was when was the script handed over? News of the writer swap was revealed in October of 2013. Arndt left on October 23, 2013. At that point in time (according to Pablo), Finn and and Maz weren't part of the story. Sam (who would become Finn) existed, but he played a much smaller role and wasn't even a Storm Trooper yet (I've read from other sources that Kasdan was the writer who came up with that idea).

I next checked the date of the interview in which JJ confirmed that there would be a "central love story". That article was published in June of 2013, 4-5 months before the script was handed over. If you look at the concept art dating back that far, everything surrounded Jedi Killer and Kira. They were the only characters who had any direction. Of course, this could all be JJ being JJ, but I don't think there are many ways to interpret "Abrams revealed that there would be a central love story that would be different and exciting".

Ideas could have changed drastically of course. None of this really means anything, but it's interesting to me that JJ was so sure there would be a "central love story that would be approached in a different way" a good half a year before Finn and Maz were even in the story.

by Gemini Thu 05 May 2016, 6:29 pm

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So I decided to do a little digging because the dates of these interviews were kind of intriguing to me:

Here we have a Tweet from Pablo confirming that "Finn" and "Maz" weren't part of the story when JJ and Kasdan took over the script from Michaela Arndt:

So my first question was when was the script handed over? News of the writer swap was revealed in October of 2013. Arndt left on October 23, 2013. At that point in time (according to Pablo), Finn and and Maz weren't part of the story. Sam (who would become Finn) existed, but he played a much smaller role and wasn't even a Storm Trooper yet (I've read from other sources that Kasdan was the writer who came up with that idea).

I next checked the date of the interview in which JJ confirmed that there would be a "central love story". That article was published in June of 2013, 4-5 months before the script was handed over. If you look at the concept art dating back that far, everything surrounded Jedi Killer and Kira. They were the only characters who had any direction. Of course, this could all be JJ being JJ, but I don't think there are many ways to interpret "Abrams revealed that there would be a central love story that would be different and exciting".

Ideas could have changed drastically of course. None of this really means anything, but it's interesting to me that JJ was so sure there would be a "central love story that would be approached in a different way" a good half a year before Finn and Maz were even in the story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

FinnRey= Massive red herring...so many people fell for it

.even in the cinema they closed it off as a friend zone

They left Ren and Rey completely open and unfinished..that look over the ground breaking?

Also wouldnt be the first time he did this, he did this in Star Trek..exact shame thing.

by Guest Thu 05 May 2016, 6:37 pm

It is certainly interesting to look back at those old articles and interviews about Ep VII knowing what we know now.

There were lots of rumours and the whole Reywalker phenomenon can be traced back to things that were speculated about Michael Arndt's script.

This article talks of the new young cast being the offspring of Luke and Han and Leia. Interestingly, it also links the part (which I assume to be Rey) with a casting search for a mixed race or black actress rumoured to be related to Obi-Wan Kenobi http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-rumors-who-is-669997

This article sets out some of the things that were rejected from the Arndt script http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/michael-arndt-reveals-rejected-plots-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-a-much-larger-role-for-redacted-20151220

by FrolickingFizzgig Thu 05 May 2016, 6:44 pm

Gemini wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So I decided to do a little digging because the dates of these interviews were kind of intriguing to me:

Here we have a Tweet from Pablo confirming that "Finn" and "Maz" weren't part of the story when JJ and Kasdan took over the script from Michaela Arndt:

So my first question was when was the script handed over? News of the writer swap was revealed in October of 2013. Arndt left on October 23, 2013. At that point in time (according to Pablo), Finn and and Maz weren't part of the story. Sam (who would become Finn) existed, but he played a much smaller role and wasn't even a Storm Trooper yet (I've read from other sources that Kasdan was the writer who came up with that idea).

I next checked the date of the interview in which JJ confirmed that there would be a "central love story". That article was published in June of 2013, 4-5 months before the script was handed over. If you look at the concept art dating back that far, everything surrounded Jedi Killer and Kira. They were the only characters who had any direction. Of course, this could all be JJ being JJ, but I don't think there are many ways to interpret "Abrams revealed that there would be a central love story that would be different and exciting".

Ideas could have changed drastically of course. None of this really means anything, but it's interesting to me that JJ was so sure there would be a "central love story that would be approached in a different way" a good half a year before Finn and Maz were even in the story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

FinnRey= Massive red herring...so many people fell for it

.even in the cinema they closed it off as a friend zone

They left Ren and Rey completely open and unfinished..that look over the ground breaking?

Also wouldnt be the first time he did this, he did this in Star Trek..exact shame thing.

@Gemini
Considering the fact that FinnRey has by far the smallest support group of any "pairing" to come out of The Force Awakens, I can't say that many people fell for it. I don't even know if I would describe it as a red-herring xD

by Force22 Thu 05 May 2016, 6:45 pm

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So I decided to do a little digging because the dates of these interviews were kind of intriguing to me:

Here we have a Tweet from Pablo confirming that "Finn" and "Maz" weren't part of the story when JJ and Kasdan took over the script from Michaela Arndt:

So my first question was when was the script handed over? News of the writer swap was revealed in October of 2013. Arndt left on October 23, 2013. At that point in time (according to Pablo), Finn and and Maz weren't part of the story. Sam (who would become Finn) existed, but he played a much smaller role and wasn't even a Storm Trooper yet (I've read from other sources that Kasdan was the writer who came up with that idea).

I next checked the date of the interview in which JJ confirmed that there would be a "central love story". That article was published in June of 2013, 4-5 months before the script was handed over. If you look at the concept art dating back that far, everything surrounded Jedi Killer and Kira. They were the only characters who had any direction. Of course, this could all be JJ being JJ, but I don't think there are many ways to interpret "Abrams revealed that there would be a central love story that would be different and exciting".

Ideas could have changed drastically of course. None of this really means anything, but it's interesting to me that JJ was so sure there would be a "central love story that would be approached in a different way" a good half a year before Finn and Maz were even in the story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Before Finn and Maz?

NOOOOOOOO!

I was so sure the different story would be Maz and Chewbacca.
Cause it would be groundbreaking, you know, interspecies. I know the EU and even TCA had interspecies relationships, but, in a movie, between important characters...

Fine I'm kidding.
Now, one thing that's interesting is that, apart from that one interview, we had no more comments about romance.
The only comments about it were the actors' in the Ellen interview, and, again, Daisy kind of hinted her character would have romance.

Edit: Also, @Mrs Ben Solo thanks for that link. I knew there were rumours about a female Kenobi descendant. That's the one reason while I don't dismiss the Rey Kenobi idea, but then, so much has changed, I'm not sure we can really rely on earlier ideas from people who are no longer on board.

by FrolickingFizzgig Thu 05 May 2016, 6:59 pm

Force22 wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So I decided to do a little digging because the dates of these interviews were kind of intriguing to me:

Here we have a Tweet from Pablo confirming that "Finn" and "Maz" weren't part of the story when JJ and Kasdan took over the script from Michaela Arndt:

So my first question was when was the script handed over? News of the writer swap was revealed in October of 2013. Arndt left on October 23, 2013. At that point in time (according to Pablo), Finn and and Maz weren't part of the story. Sam (who would become Finn) existed, but he played a much smaller role and wasn't even a Storm Trooper yet (I've read from other sources that Kasdan was the writer who came up with that idea).

I next checked the date of the interview in which JJ confirmed that there would be a "central love story". That article was published in June of 2013, 4-5 months before the script was handed over. If you look at the concept art dating back that far, everything surrounded Jedi Killer and Kira. They were the only characters who had any direction. Of course, this could all be JJ being JJ, but I don't think there are many ways to interpret "Abrams revealed that there would be a central love story that would be different and exciting".

Ideas could have changed drastically of course. None of this really means anything, but it's interesting to me that JJ was so sure there would be a "central love story that would be approached in a different way" a good half a year before Finn and Maz were even in the story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Before Finn and Maz?

NOOOOOOOO!

I was so sure the different story would be Maz and Chewbacca.
Cause it would be groundbreaking, you know, interspecies. I know the EU and even TCA had interspecies relationships, but, in a movie, between important characters...

Fine I'm kidding.
Now, one thing that's interesting is that, apart from that one interview, we had no more comments about romance.
The only comments about it were the actors' in the Ellen interview, and, again, Daisy kind of hinted her character would have romance.

Edit: Also, @Mrs Ben Solo thanks for that link. I knew there were rumours about a female Kenobi descendant. That's the one reason while I don't dismiss the Rey Kenobi idea, but then, so much has changed, I'm not sure we can really rely on earlier ideas from people who are no longer on board.

@Force22
Something I find really interesting is that the writers wanted to create and flesh out a cast of characters before connecting them to the older generation. They had ideas, but the only two characters they conceptualized at first were Jedi Killer and Kira. If you look at the Art of The Force Awakens book you'll see that most of the images focus on them. JJ, Kasdan and Arndt knew they wanted a "different, exciting take on a love story" 4-5 months before Finn and Maz were even part of the story. Maybe it means nothing, or maybe it means everything. We might never know.

by Gemini Thu 05 May 2016, 8:11 pm

When he says "they knew who she wasn't " what does that mean fizz?

by Mana Thu 05 May 2016, 8:20 pm

I think they already knew they didn't want her to be related to any of the original trilogy characters....

by FrolickingFizzgig Thu 05 May 2016, 8:34 pm

Gemini wrote:When he says "they knew who she wasn't " what does that mean fizz?

@Gemini
When I read that I see another subtle Rey Skywalker/Solo debunking. They had yet to fully explore Kira's backstory, but they knew where her origins didn't lie, perhaps because they also made the clear decision to have Jedi Killer play the role of lead Skywalker in the Sequel Trilogy. If JJ's "different take on a love story" remained a core idea from spring to fall of 2013 then it's likely they knew she couldn't be related to Jedi Killer, and by extension Luke, Leia or Han. In fact, I see no reason for Pablo to say that at all unless he was indirectly referring to the known families from the OT. Purely from an objective perspective, I can't say anything else would be "big" enough for them to mutually come to such a conclusion. To me, "they knew who she wasn't" directly = "they knew she was not a Skywalker or Solo", or perhaps even "they knew she was not a legacy child from the OT/PT".

@Mana
I agree, they knew she wasn't a legacy character for a long, long time. Chances are she never was.

by **Darth Dementor** Thu 05 May 2016, 9:09 pm

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Gemini wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So I decided to do a little digging because the dates of these interviews were kind of intriguing to me:

Here we have a Tweet from Pablo confirming that "Finn" and "Maz" weren't part of the story when JJ and Kasdan took over the script from Michaela Arndt:

So my first question was when was the script handed over? News of the writer swap was revealed in October of 2013. Arndt left on October 23, 2013. At that point in time (according to Pablo), Finn and and Maz weren't part of the story. Sam (who would become Finn) existed, but he played a much smaller role and wasn't even a Storm Trooper yet (I've read from other sources that Kasdan was the writer who came up with that idea).

I next checked the date of the interview in which JJ confirmed that there would be a "central love story". That article was published in June of 2013, 4-5 months before the script was handed over. If you look at the concept art dating back that far, everything surrounded Jedi Killer and Kira. They were the only characters who had any direction. Of course, this could all be JJ being JJ, but I don't think there are many ways to interpret "Abrams revealed that there would be a central love story that would be different and exciting".

Ideas could have changed drastically of course. None of this really means anything, but it's interesting to me that JJ was so sure there would be a "central love story that would be approached in a different way" a good half a year before Finn and Maz were even in the story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

FinnRey= Massive red herring...so many people fell for it

.even in the cinema they closed it off as a friend zone

They left Ren and Rey completely open and unfinished..that look over the ground breaking?

Also wouldnt be the first time he did this, he did this in Star Trek..exact shame thing.
@Gemini
Considering the fact that FinnRey has by far the smallest support group of any "pairing" to come out of The Force Awakens, I can't say that many people fell for it. I don't even know if I would describe it as a red-herring xD

@FrolickingFizzgig

I don't see any other ship, period, that has a strong and loyal enough following to start its own forum. The fact that Reylo is the only pairing to build and maintain, an ever increasing, one should be another clue we're on the right track.

The amount of research this group has put in has unearthed so much depth, symbolism, parallels, allegories, and analysis to the point someone can write a dissertation on Reylo just from reading The Rey & Kylo Connection, alone!

by vaderito Thu 05 May 2016, 10:20 pm

BastilaBey wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:Re: the leak about Rey and Luke's costumes a little while back, I wonder if Rey loses her grey vest and lets her hair down before or after Kylo shows up on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

As long as Kylo sees her with her hair down and they have him clearly check her out again...

@BastilaBey

Guys, we knew that loose hair = Kylo. I said so. After having Force sex with Kylo, next step is letting her hair down. So Kylo arrives in time to catch her with loose hair. Or unbraid it. Twisted Evil

@FrolickingFizzgig Another addition to your timeline, they were meeting with AD before the script was even written. he said there was no script so JJ explained him the outline of the story and character.

by Saracene Thu 05 May 2016, 10:34 pm

If you remove the OT goggles, and villain goggles, TFA was totally a boy-meets-girl story, probably the oldest story in the world Smile

I only ever heard one couple of podcasters (can't remember who) briefly mention the possibility of romance when they wondered if Kylo and Rey were going to be the next Han and Leia. Even then they were trying to box it into something they already knew from the old trilogy (I suspect the obsession with "trio" comes from the same place).

by Mana Thu 05 May 2016, 10:40 pm

Saracene wrote:If you remove the OT goggles, and villain goggles, TFA was totally a boy-meets-girl story, probably the oldest story in the world

I only ever heard one couple of podcasters (can't remember who) briefly mention the possibility of romance when they wondered if Kylo and Rey were going to be the next Han and Leia. Even then they were trying to box it into something they already knew from the old trilogy (I suspect the obsession with "trio" comes from the same place).

@Saracene

yeah...and Kylo and Rey are totally not like Han and Leia....again if you remove the 'Villain and enemy' goggles, Rey and Kylo are more similar and have lots in common than you'd think...its funny really

by Guest Thu 05 May 2016, 11:58 pm

vaderito wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:Re: the leak about Rey and Luke's costumes a little while back, I wonder if Rey loses her grey vest and lets her hair down before or after Kylo shows up on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

As long as Kylo sees her with her hair down and they have him clearly check her out again...
@BastilaBey

Guys, we knew that loose hair = Kylo. I said so. After having Force sex with Kylo, next step is letting her hair down. So Kylo arrives in time to catch her with loose hair. Or unbraid it.

@FrolickingFizzgig Another addition to your timeline, they were meeting with AD before the script was even written. he said there was no script so JJ explained him the outline of the story and character.

@vaderito

This analysis is making me excited again! It could really mean something that a central love story had already been talked about, before Finn was ever added to the script. The whole "different and exciting" part of it makes me think JJ already had something specific in mind, involving characters that existed back then. It also gives more weight to what we already knew, that Finnrey never was and never would happen. There's nothing interesting about those two together, nothing that would be worth mentioning so far ahead of time, months before the script was being written and years before the film's release.

Kylo needs to see Rey with her hair down for sure. Razz

Also, it makes sense for her to let go of that hair style. I mean, she's had it since being abandoned on Jakku. I assume she kept it that way for so long to make herself recognizable to her family should they come back for her. Aside maybe from convenience, there's no reason to keep the three bun style on Ahch-To since it's just her and Luke.

by vaderito Fri 06 May 2016, 7:47 am

Saracene wrote:If you remove the OT goggles, and villain goggles, TFA was totally a boy-meets-girl story, probably the oldest story in the world

I only ever heard one couple of podcasters (can't remember who) briefly mention the possibility of romance when they wondered if Kylo and Rey were going to be the next Han and Leia. Even then they were trying to box it into something they already knew from the old trilogy (I suspect the obsession with "trio" comes from the same place).

@Saracene

One Boy meets What Girl. Twisted Evil

by Saracene Fri 06 May 2016, 7:53 am

vaderito wrote:
Saracene wrote:If you remove the OT goggles, and villain goggles, TFA was totally a boy-meets-girl story, probably the oldest story in the world

I only ever heard one couple of podcasters (can't remember who) briefly mention the possibility of romance when they wondered if Kylo and Rey were going to be the next Han and Leia. Even then they were trying to box it into something they already knew from the old trilogy (I suspect the obsession with "trio" comes from the same place).
@Saracene

One Boy meets What Girl.

@vaderito

In the woods, no less. Can't get more old school than the woods!

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