ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

I'M STILL LAUGHING



@BastilaBey @nonesuch

Haven't listened to it so far, but this could be of interest for some, especially for @Maria Antonietta

http://theplaylist.net/rian-johnson-talks-taking-star-wars-last-jedi-scriptnotes-podcast-20170510/

EchoBase wrote:Haven't listened to it so far, but this could be of interest for some, especially for @Maria Antonietta

http://theplaylist.net/rian-johnson-talks-taking-star-wars-last-jedi-scriptnotes-podcast-20170510/

@EchoBase

Now I'm known as RIAN'S WIFE

EchoBase wrote:Haven't listened to it so far, but this could be of interest for some, especially for @Maria Antonietta

http://theplaylist.net/rian-johnson-talks-taking-star-wars-last-jedi-scriptnotes-podcast-20170510/

@EchoBase

I listened to it. Rian didn't talk much--it was mostly one of the guys from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

He did take an audience question where the person complimented him on the TLJ poster and asked how much input he'd had into it. Rian answered that he, KK, "and a few other people" went into a room that had about 40 posters, and that he and KK zeroed in on the design we got right away. He said that they only made a few minor tweaks to the original design, and that was it.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

EchoBase wrote:Haven't listened to it so far, but this could be of interest for some, especially for @Maria Antonietta

http://theplaylist.net/rian-johnson-talks-taking-star-wars-last-jedi-scriptnotes-podcast-20170510/

@EchoBase

I listened to it. Rian didn't talk much--it was mostly one of the guys from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

He did take an audience question where the person complimented him on the TLJ poster and asked how much input he'd had into it. Rian answered that he, KK, "and a few other people" went into a room that had about 40 posters, and that he and KK zeroed in on the design we got right away. He said that they only made a few minor tweaks to the original design, and that was it.

@ISeeAnIsland

Thanks for that snippet of info... I wish we could see the other 39! I love that poster and I wouldn't change a thing but I'm still curious about the other designs.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

EchoBase wrote:Haven't listened to it so far, but this could be of interest for some, especially for @Maria Antonietta

http://theplaylist.net/rian-johnson-talks-taking-star-wars-last-jedi-scriptnotes-podcast-20170510/

@EchoBase

I listened to it. Rian didn't talk much--it was mostly one of the guys from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

He did take an audience question where the person complimented him on the TLJ poster and asked how much input he'd had into it. Rian answered that he, KK, "and a few other people" went into a room that had about 40 posters, and that he and KK zeroed in on the design we got right away. He said that they only made a few minor tweaks to the original design, and that was it.

@ISeeAnIsland

Very nice, very nice. I love how they both zeroed in on it.

Well that's interesting in that's the same podcast which interviewed Lawrence Kasdan in-depth about all of his films and characters

Craig: The lovable part is the explanation and the humanity behind the failures. I mean, you do that really well, I think. That when you create flawed characters, the flaws don’t feel like they’re floating on top of somebody. They feel like they’re on the other side of the things we like. They are sort of integral to why we like those characters.

Lawrence: Well, that’s high praise, isn’t it? I do think all things are like that. There’s a great line that I will screw up now, but where he says, “You know, every pleasure — with every pleasure is a hint of pain.” Pay for your ticket and don’t complain. Everything is a duality.

There’s us here, sitting here. You guys are loved. Your podcast is loved.

Lawrence: Yeah. They haven’t done their part. I did my part. You know, I honestly believe that I’m not writing for audiences. I’m writing for myself. And when J.J. and I sat down to do this one, we sort of came into it under a lot of time pressure and everything, and we were sort of clearing the decks. There had been some false starts. And I said to him, “We have only one job. The job is to delight. This movie doesn’t matter in the big scheme of things. It’s only entertainment.” And that’s not usual for me, because usually I want to make it as hard as possible for people to sit there.

But this clearly was going to be satisfying a lot of long-suffering fans. And I said we just want to delight. You know, Akira Kurosawa, who is my greatest hero, and is I think the greatest director that ever lived, and one of the greatest writers that ever lived, his greatest film is Seven Samurai, if you haven’t seen it, go home and see it. It’s everything.

He is the Shakespeare of movies. He does everything. He does comedy. He does drama. Historical drama. Intimate, tiny personal dramas. And swashbuckling action. He’s the greatest director that ever lived. At one point, he decided to make Yojimbo, which you can watch as an appetizer for Seven Samurai. And it is, I think, maybe the most entertaining movie ever made. Just frame-by-frame, most entertaining.

But what he said to his writers, his co-writers, as he sat down was he said, “I want to make a movie that’s so delicious you want to eat it.” That’s Akira Kurosawa. And Yojimbo is that movie. And incident to incident you say, oh my god, that’s so great. What would be the best thing that could happen next?

Well, I said that to J.J. I told him that story. And I said let’s just write what we want to see, that would delight us, and then the next thing is what’s the next great thing that could happen. And that’s not I approach everything. It’s not how I approached The Big Chill, or Accidental Tourist.

But this was clearly meant to delight. So that’s a great sort of flag to be operating in.

https://soundcloud.com/whotalksfirst

The episode about the "anti-chosen" one is really worth listening. I know rumors are rumors, but this is the best I've heard so far.

It would be a shocking twist, it would make Kylo more sympathetic, it would explain why Luke hesitates to train Rey.

EchoBase wrote:https://soundcloud.com/whotalksfirst

The episode about the "anti-chosen" one is really worth listening. I know rumors are rumors, but this is the best I've heard so far.

It would be a shocking twist, it would make Kylo more sympathetic, it would explain why Luke hesitates to train Rey.

@EchoBase

Very interesting! Here's a summary:

* The WTF people heard from their own source that Rey is not related to anyone, but she is the reason that Ben fell to the dark side, and that Ben fell in her place. So how does that fit with Rey and Kylo never having met before?
* Brought up the speculation by MSW that Rey is a prophesied "bringer of doom" figure.
* WTF thinks that Rey might be an "anti- chosen one".

Here's the speculation/possible evidence from WTF:

* WTF speculates (and emphasized that this is pure speculation) that when Rax was trying to destroy Jakku (by destroying the heart/core of Jakku) to bring about the end of the galaxy, this was in support of instruction from the Emperor, probably from a prophecy. But what if the "heart of Jakku" is really Rey?
* They brought up the "light source" (blue light) from the well of Jakku that Rax & co encountered in Empire's End.
* Fast-forward: Ben and Luke discovered some prophecy about "the heart of Jakku" being a bringer of destruction. Maybe even Snoke knows about it because he knows that the "new Jedi" will be the bringer of destruction. Basically, everyone wants to stop this.
* Ben fell because he thought that one of the padawans was the doombringer of the prophecy...so he killed everyone thinking that he was saving the entire galaxy. This fits with Ben thinking that he was doing the "right thing" (and most of the audience will probably sympathize with it), but he's still a murderer. Also fits with the overall Jedi message about being willing to sacrifice individuals for the greater good of the galaxy.

Other interesting bits:

* Brought up Leia's quote about how "I would burn down the entire galaxy if I thought it was the right thing to do."
* Possibly creates the possibility of a self-sacrifice ending for Rey...where Rey sacrifices herself to prevent the destruction of the galaxy.

WTF's points against this theory:
* We've already had a "chosen one". Making Rey an anti-chosen one would be redundant.
* Rey self-sacrificing at the end would be depressing.
* We already have Kylo in the Reverse Anakin role... Would they bring more "Anakin" into the story in the form of Rey when they already have their Anakin in Kylo?
* It would really be a lot more simple if Luke just wants the Jedi to end because he and Ben discovered how corrupt the Jedi really were.

Yeah there's simple, but simple can be good as in QED versus simple as in not thought out/argued. Bad is coming up with all of the above exposition and explanation in order to support the idea of Rey as a bringer of doom, including taking out Snoke's role and any sort of moral responsibility/agency for Ben's fall. Better really is that Luke and Ben discovered something which means that the history/legacy of the Jedi that had been practiced was based on a morally/philosophically unsound basis.

snufkin wrote:Yeah there's simple, but simple can be good as in QED versus simple as in not thought out/argued. Bad is coming up with all of the above exposition and explanation in order to support the idea of Rey as a bringer of doom, including taking out Snoke's role and any sort of moral responsibility/agency for Ben's fall. Better really is that Luke and Ben discovered something which means that the history/legacy of the Jedi that had been practiced was based on a morally/philosophically unsound basis.

@snufkin

I agree... Although what they were looking to do was tying in the "Luke doesn't want to train Rey/freaks out about her 'place in the Force'" rumor from MSW with the rumor they had heard that Rey was somehow the cause of Ben's fall.

They admitted that it was just their own speculation from tying together stuff from Empire's End, with MSW, with something that they had been told by a source.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

EchoBase wrote:https://soundcloud.com/whotalksfirst

The episode about the "anti-chosen" one is really worth listening. I know rumors are rumors, but this is the best I've heard so far.

It would be a shocking twist, it would make Kylo more sympathetic, it would explain why Luke hesitates to train Rey.

@EchoBase

Very interesting! Here's a summary:

* The WTF people heard from their own source that Rey is not related to anyone, but she is the reason that Ben fell to the dark side, and that Ben fell in her place. So how does that fit with Rey and Kylo never having met before?
* Brought up the speculation by MSW that Rey is a prophesied "bringer of doom" figure.
* WTF thinks that Rey might be an "anti- chosen one".

Here's the speculation/possible evidence from WTF:

* WTF speculates (and emphasized that this is pure speculation) that when Rax was trying to destroy Jakku (by destroying the heart/core of Jakku) to bring about the end of the galaxy, this was in support of instruction from the Emperor, probably from a prophecy. But what if the "heart of Jakku" is really Rey?
* They brought up the "light source" (blue light) from the well of Jakku that Rax & co encountered in Empire's End.
* Fast-forward: Ben and Luke discovered some prophecy about "the heart of Jakku" being a bringer of destruction. Maybe even Snoke knows about it because he knows that the "new Jedi" will be the bringer of destruction. Basically, everyone wants to stop this.
* Ben fell because he thought that one of the padawans was the doombringer of the prophecy...so he killed everyone thinking that he was saving the entire galaxy. This fits with Ben thinking that he was doing the "right thing" (and most of the audience will probably sympathize with it), but he's still a murderer. Also fits with the overall Jedi message about being willing to sacrifice individuals for the greater good of the galaxy.

Other interesting bits:

* Brought up Leia's quote about how "I would burn down the entire galaxy if I thought it was the right thing to do."
* Possibly creates the possibility of a self-sacrifice ending for Rey...where Rey sacrifices herself to prevent the destruction of the galaxy.

WTF's points against this theory:
* We've already had a "chosen one". Making Rey an anti-chosen one would be redundant.
* Rey self-sacrificing at the end would be depressing.
* We already have Kylo in the Reverse Anakin role... Would they bring more "Anakin" into the story in the form of Rey when they already have their Anakin in Kylo?
* It would really be a lot more simple if Luke just wants the Jedi to end because he and Ben discovered how corrupt the Jedi really were.

@ISeeAnIsland



If her source is legit, it might be a way to get Rey and Ren close, sooner than we imagine. And Rey being an anti-chosen one mirrors Persephone being feared and revered by everyone, even by her death-husband.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:Yeah there's simple, but simple can be good as in QED versus simple as in not thought out/argued. Bad is coming up with all of the above exposition and explanation in order to support the idea of Rey as a bringer of doom, including taking out Snoke's role and any sort of moral responsibility/agency for Ben's fall. Better really is that Luke and Ben discovered something which means that the history/legacy of the Jedi that had been practiced was based on a morally/philosophically unsound basis.

@snufkin

I agree... Although what they were looking to do was tying in the "Luke doesn't want to train Rey/freaks out about her 'place in the Force'" rumor from MSW with the rumor they had heard that Rey was somehow the cause of Ben's fall.

They admitted that it was just their own speculation from tying together stuff from Empire's End, with MSW, with something that they had been told by a source.

@ISeeAnIsland

Also a lot of theorists seem to forget about Rian Johnson's line in Looper about how "we're not going to spend all day discussing Time Travel because if we do, then we'll be here all day making diagrams with straws." He's not Mr Convoluted scenario to support a theory.



There probably is some issue to do with fate or potentially scenarios of how things could pan out, which is the source of Luke being difficult with Rey. But just based on watching his movies, that doesn't sound like something he'd write because it's way too complicated.

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:Yeah there's simple, but simple can be good as in QED versus simple as in not thought out/argued. Bad is coming up with all of the above exposition and explanation in order to support the idea of Rey as a bringer of doom, including taking out Snoke's role and any sort of moral responsibility/agency for Ben's fall. Better really is that Luke and Ben discovered something which means that the history/legacy of the Jedi that had been practiced was based on a morally/philosophically unsound basis.

@snufkin

I agree... Although what they were looking to do was tying in the "Luke doesn't want to train Rey/freaks out about her 'place in the Force'" rumor from MSW with the rumor they had heard that Rey was somehow the cause of Ben's fall.

They admitted that it was just their own speculation from tying together stuff from Empire's End, with MSW, with something that they had been told by a source.

@ISeeAnIsland

Also a lot of theorists seem to forget about Rian Johnson's line in Looper about how "we're not going to spend all day discussing Time Travel because if we do, then we'll be here all day making diagrams with straws." He's not Mr Convoluted scenario to support a theory.



There probably is some issue to do with fate or potentially scenarios of how things could pan out, which is the source of Luke being difficult with Rey. But just based on watching his movies, that doesn't sound like something he'd write because it's way too complicated.

@snufkin

I agree that it's probably unlikely to unfold in this way, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's a (simple) mis-read prophecy involved somewhere. Star Wars does like its (misread) prophecies. The WTF theory (and it's weird for me to keep typing that because I always associate "WTF" in podcasts with Marc Maron) also leaves out the whole Vader thing. How would this fit with the Vader reveal, which seemed to coincide with Ben's fall? And how would it tie in with Kylo's "I will finish what you started, grandfather" thing?

They admitted that they have no idea how reliable their source is, but Rey somehow being the cause of Ben's fall (when they're not related and never met each other) could be an interesting jumping off point for discussion.

Maria Antonietta wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

EchoBase wrote:https://soundcloud.com/whotalksfirst

The episode about the "anti-chosen" one is really worth listening. I know rumors are rumors, but this is the best I've heard so far.

It would be a shocking twist, it would make Kylo more sympathetic, it would explain why Luke hesitates to train Rey.

@EchoBase

Very interesting!  Here's a summary:

* The WTF people heard from their own source that Rey is not related to anyone, but she is the reason that Ben fell to the dark side, and that Ben fell in her place. So how does that fit with Rey and Kylo never having met before?
* Brought up the speculation by MSW that Rey is a prophesied "bringer of doom" figure.
* WTF thinks that Rey might be an "anti- chosen one".

Here's the speculation/possible evidence from WTF:

* WTF speculates (and emphasized that this is pure speculation) that when Rax was trying to destroy Jakku (by destroying the heart/core of Jakku) to bring about the end of the galaxy, this was in support of instruction from the Emperor, probably from a prophecy. But what if the "heart of Jakku" is really Rey?
* They brought up the "light source" (blue light) from the well of Jakku that Rax & co encountered in Empire's End.
* Fast-forward:  Ben and Luke discovered some prophecy about "the heart of Jakku" being a bringer of destruction. Maybe even Snoke knows about it because he knows that the "new Jedi" will be the bringer of destruction. Basically, everyone wants to stop this.
* Ben fell because he thought that one of the padawans was the doombringer of the prophecy...so he killed everyone thinking that he was saving the entire galaxy. This fits with Ben thinking that he was doing the "right thing" (and most of the audience will probably sympathize with it), but he's still a murderer. Also fits with the overall Jedi message about being willing to sacrifice individuals for the greater good of the galaxy.

Other interesting bits:

* Brought up Leia's quote about how "I would burn down the entire galaxy if I thought it was the right thing to do."
* Possibly creates the possibility of a self-sacrifice ending for Rey...where Rey sacrifices herself to prevent the destruction of the galaxy.

WTF's points against this theory:
* We've already had a "chosen one". Making Rey an anti-chosen one would be redundant.
* Rey self-sacrificing at the end would be depressing.
* We already have Kylo in the Reverse Anakin role...  Would they bring more "Anakin" into the story in the form of Rey when they already have their Anakin in Kylo?
* It would really be a lot more simple if Luke just wants the Jedi to end because he and Ben discovered how corrupt the Jedi really were.

@ISeeAnIsland



If her source is legit, it might be a way to get Rey and Ren close, sooner than we imagine. And Rey being an anti-chosen one mirrors Persephone being feared and revered by everyone, even by her death-husband.

@Maria Antonietta

And wouldn't it be ironic, if Rey was the reason for Ben's fall, but at the same time she could be the catalyst to bring him back to the light? That she was the one who's "responsible" for the imbalance of the galaxy and she could be the one to bring the balance back?