ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

"it's the story of two people"-some guy talking about Rey and Ren in the Blu-ray extras

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

RandomObserver wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:If the cliff scene is at the end of the movie you can pretty much kiss Reylo goodbye.

I can't see how they're antagonistic the entire film of VIII and then become reluctant allies to friends to lovers all in IX.

Cliff scene is middle or bust, imo.

@Xylo Ren

And there's also the question of if the cliff scene is part of a dream Rey has, or if it actually happens. Perhaps both? I agree that it'll be mid-way through the movie, because there needs to be a character arc and actual development. Three movies of them being antagonistic to each other would be a let-down. Plus, there's also the amount of times during TFA when Lor San Tekka, Han, Leia, and Kylo Ren himself all remarked on there being light in him or giving a nod to his true origins. It's foreshadowing IMO. I think it's all going down in VIII.

@RandomObserver

I'm pretty sure that the only person to report that there's a dream sequence at the beginning and that the actual fight is at the end was that iwasraisedtodoonething blogger guy. And he's definitely not a reliable source.

For sure. There are certainly some hokey bloggers out there. And they wouldn't just waste all that money (wasn't there also a 10k camera that fell down the cliff during filming?), just to film one dream sequence. I do think it would be cool to see it play out in Rey's dream one way and have it go down another. But regardless, there is endless potential in what they can do with all the Reylo scenes. It's a goldmine of angst and tension, let's just hope for an earlier meeting in TLJ!

I'm back with receipts.

As MakingStarWars reports, the KOR's arrival and the lightsaber fight occur at night:

MSW wrote:Luke Skywalker and Rey are on Ahch-To just before nightfall as the sun sets in the background and it starts to rain.
Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren turn up along the coast.
Kylo Ren continues advancing towards the heroes with the Knights of Ren.
Kylo does not wear the mask here.
Kylo has the same cross guard saber as he did in VII.
Kylo’s costume looked the same as in VII.
Rey and Kylo Ren duel one-on-one and end up fighting along the cliff face overlooking the nighttime water.

Meanwhile, here is a blurry faraway pic of Kylo on Ahch-To:



^ This was filmed in broad daylight as you can see, and he's alone with his mask on. To me, this looks like it's the next day, which I think is a strong indicator that the movie will not end with a literal cliffhanger and these characters will spend more time together than that.

Helix wrote:If Rey really wants to mess Kylo up she can just shave his head.

@Helix
Don't say such horrific things!

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
He's going to be standing around getting eeeevilllllllerrrrr, duh. Force-choking and Force-zapping Mitaka, cosplaying with Vader's helmet, possibly maniacally cackling for an entire five minute thought-provoking sequence, and of course plotting to kill Leia.

@FrolickingFizzgig
And gradually turn into a robot to complete his journey.

reylosaur wrote:I don't think the Ahch-To confrontation/lightsaber fight will be near the end

@reylosaur
Yes, it makes absolutely no sense for it to be near the end. End of act 1, possibly, but definitely not near the end of the movie. Also, very important, as reported by MSW (grain of salt and all that), the continuation of the first rain encounter takes place around the Jedi huts. Which is where we'll see key scenes play out IMO. In fact, I was bored one day and wrote a summary of what we have so far in terms of leaks (MSW + Bothan-spy who have at least a certain level of credibility... maybe).
Here it is (there are probably a lot of inaccuracies, but it's just for fun):

Spoiler:

reylosaur wrote:I don't think the Ahch-To confrontation/lightsaber fight will be near the end, and here's why:

- The KOR reportedly show up in the evening, according to MSW. And I think there were eye witnesses who said flashes of light could be seen on the island at night. And it just makes more sense for a duel to occur in the darkness of night, along with pouring rain.

- There was at least one scene filmed of Kylo walking around on the island seemingly by himself during the day. This logically would have occurred after any initial encounter and lightsaber duel. Since he appeared to be alone, it could be speculated that the KOR are dead.

- What is happening for the rest of the two hours, then? Rey and Kylo are the main protagonist and antagonist of the film. They can't have a "very interesting relationship moving forward" if they're kept separate for nearly all of the next movie.

So, I don't really believe all of this will happen so late in the film, nor do I think Kylo is going to reveal Rey's parents to her while she's backed against the edge of a cliff. I doubt he even has any idea. Whoever came up with that is simply hoping for ESB v.2.

@reylosaur

I agree with most of this. I'm not sure about the timing of Kylo walking around by himself during the day, though. If I recall, he appeared to be wearing his mask in those shots, and according to MSW, he has his mask off during the fight. (Caveat: MSW has backtracked on a lot of the KoR fight stuff.)

it also seems plausible that Kylo arrives separately from the KoR--maybe in that personal TIE fighter of his, so I could see a scenario where Kylo and the KoR arrive/crash separately and need to meet up with each other before attacking Luke and Rey.

I really hope there's a crashed ship to at least play with some of the inevitable comparisons/callbacks to ESB that most of the audience expects. The way that film has its opening act of showing the personal stories in play

1. Imperial hunt for the Rebels, which is presented as Vader's hunt for Luke. The biggest of the personal stories in play, though audience is tricked into thinking it's strictly Black Hat versus White Hat.

2. Luke's vision of Obi-Wan, calling him to the Force and going on a quest to meet the last Master. Hm, where have we seen this before:scratch: ?

3. The antagonistic yet complicated and intertwined relationship between Han and Leia. It's 3 years later and he's embedded with the Rebellion despite having a bounty on his head and their initial conversation about how money is the only thing he cares about/believes is worth counting on. Their conflict is the most overtly personal, with him pushing her to open up to him and her resisting, keeping him at arm's length.

So opening act, re-establish the returning characters and show the basics for each of them:

1. Poe, eh not enough really shown of him in the movie to see any kind of interesting struggle. As far as we've been shown, he's just a good team leader who cares about the Resistance and his little robot buddy. Nice guy, but not terribly complicated.

2. Finn will be reborn both physically and mentally to further his quest to take on and take down the First Order after a lifetime as a kidnapped child soldier.

3. Leia probably to do with space politics given Bloodline and likely she and Poe will be interconnected. Maybe too much to ask that we get one of those Bloodline moments of her being with a young person and longing for her son. Or showing how it's tied up with her own PTSD and compulsion (guess where Ben gets it from) to continue on the family legacy of public service.

4. Luke - weird isolated space hippie who's guilty about whatever Pandora's Box he opened in searching for Jedi lore that led to all of the the ST drama. Including guilt over failing his sister's request to help and look after her child. Deliberately in hiding while the rest of the galaxy falls to pieces.

5. Rey - she is so screwed. Stuck on remote island with weird isolated space hippie, first time to stop and catch breath after finally leaving place she'd mentally trapped herself, gaining/losing first real relationships with other human beings (one now dead, the other in a coma), learning of incredible and potentially destructive power within her, and compulsion to help others leading her to take on Leia's quest for finding Luke. She's going to be alone on a small isolated island with only a crazy space hippie for company. Oh and there's also the antagonistic/attraction she has to the bad guy whose a** she kicked, who will likely be on the hunt for her. While she's probably feeling guilty about beating the crap out of him and maybe getting access to enough information to make her sympathetic towards. But that will likely make her feel guilty in turn because he's the a**hole who destroyed the village back in Jakku, beat up  Finn and put him in a coma and murdered his own father.

6. Ben/Kylo - just please bait the audience to think he's badder and eviler before pulling the Dark Luke scenario Mark Hammill had wished for.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I agree with most of this. I'm not sure about the timing of Kylo walking around by himself during the day, though. If I recall, he appeared to be wearing his mask in those shots, and according to MSW, he has his mask off during the fight. (Caveat: MSW has backtracked on a lot of the KoR fight stuff.)  

it also seems plausible that Kylo arrives separately from the KoR--maybe in that personal TIE fighter of his, so I could see a scenario where Kylo and the KoR arrive/crash separately and need to meet up with each other before attacking Luke and Rey.

@ISeeAnIsland

Oh, it's really hard to interpret these shots without context! I was just speculating, and am 100% okay with it if I've gotten anything wrong.

The full picture includes what *looks* like Daisy dressed as Rey off-screen, which is what leads me to think this is post-battle. Maybe they'll have a conversation during the night and in the morning he wanders off alone to do some soul-searching?

I personally think Kylo and the KOR will all arrive together but not land on the island itself, since the MSW rumor says they "turn up along the coast". It sounds to me like they might land/crash elsewhere.

Wouldn't it be cool if Kylo takes his personal TIE-fighter when he goes to Snoke in person? I'm thinking there could be an early scene like that and we'll see where the Supreme Leader hides out. (Again, just speculation!)

reylosaur wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I agree with most of this. I'm not sure about the timing of Kylo walking around by himself during the day, though. If I recall, he appeared to be wearing his mask in those shots, and according to MSW, he has his mask off during the fight. (Caveat: MSW has backtracked on a lot of the KoR fight stuff.)  

it also seems plausible that Kylo arrives separately from the KoR--maybe in that personal TIE fighter of his, so I could see a scenario where Kylo and the KoR arrive/crash separately and need to meet up with each other before attacking Luke and Rey.

@ISeeAnIsland

Oh, it's really hard to interpret these shots without context! I was just speculating, and am 100% okay with it if I've gotten anything wrong.

The full picture includes what *looks* like Daisy dressed as Rey off-screen, which is what leads me to think this is post-battle. Maybe they'll have a conversation during the night and in the morning he wanders off alone to do some soul-searching?

I personally think Kylo and the KOR will all arrive together but not land on the island itself, since the MSW rumor says they "turn up along the coast". It sounds to me like they might land/crash elsewhere.

Wouldn't it be cool if Kylo takes his personal TIE-fighter when he goes to Snoke in person? I'm thinking there could be an early scene like that and we'll see where the Supreme Leader hides out. (Again, just speculation!)

@reylosaur

Oh same here--I'm not married to that theory as headcanon. I do think the whole thing of the Knights supposedly kneeling around a ship's crash site sounds weird, but who knows. Like you said, there's no context.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

reylosaur wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I agree with most of this. I'm not sure about the timing of Kylo walking around by himself during the day, though. If I recall, he appeared to be wearing his mask in those shots, and according to MSW, he has his mask off during the fight. (Caveat: MSW has backtracked on a lot of the KoR fight stuff.)  

it also seems plausible that Kylo arrives separately from the KoR--maybe in that personal TIE fighter of his, so I could see a scenario where Kylo and the KoR arrive/crash separately and need to meet up with each other before attacking Luke and Rey.

@ISeeAnIsland

Oh, it's really hard to interpret these shots without context! I was just speculating, and am 100% okay with it if I've gotten anything wrong.

The full picture includes what *looks* like Daisy dressed as Rey off-screen, which is what leads me to think this is post-battle. Maybe they'll have a conversation during the night and in the morning he wanders off alone to do some soul-searching?

I personally think Kylo and the KOR will all arrive together but not land on the island itself, since the MSW rumor says they "turn up along the coast". It sounds to me like they might land/crash elsewhere.

Wouldn't it be cool if Kylo takes his personal TIE-fighter when he goes to Snoke in person? I'm thinking there could be an early scene like that and we'll see where the Supreme Leader hides out. (Again, just speculation!)

@reylosaur

Oh same here--I'm not married to that theory as headcanon. I do think the whole thing of the Knights supposedly kneeling around a ship's crash site sounds weird, but who knows. Like you said, there's no context.

@ISeeAnIsland

The only event that sounds similar is in Rebels where we see the story of Tor Vizsla's descendants wielding the darksaber and the other Mandos bowing to him/her.... this makes me wonder if the KOR has some Mando connection.

No matter how hard I try, I just don't see any good reason storytelling-wise for Kylo to show up on Ahch-To at the end of the movie. It just proves to me it's yet another one of the fanboys' fanfics. I mean, what does Rey do the entire film apart from training with Luke? Once again, it's as if Finn gets all the cool action scenes. Which is fine, gimme some good actions scenes with Finn, but the focus is on him instead of Rey, who, ya know, is supposed to be the heroine.

So if Kylo Ren shows up on Ahch-To earlier (I'm going to say maximum at halftime of the movie), that will already make Rey's plot more interesting. And of course, their interactions have to go beyond: "Reyyyyyy, pleaaaaaaase..." "YOU'RE A MONSTAH" And I mean, sure, I'm fully prepared not to see romantic Reylo, but I don't really see the Trevorrow guy handling that, and call me heteronormative, but attractive dude + attractive girl + 50-year-old virgin hermit + Desert Island = ???

Irina de France wrote:No matter how hard I try, I just don't see any good reason storytelling-wise for Kylo to show up on Ahch-To at the end of the movie. It just proves to me it's yet another one of the fanboys' fanfics. I mean, what does Rey do the entire film apart from training with Luke? Once again, it's as if Finn gets all the cool action scenes. Which is fine, gimme some good actions scenes with Finn, but the focus is on him instead of Rey, who, ya know, is supposed to be the heroine.

So if Kylo Ren shows up on Ahch-To earlier (I'm going to say maximum at halftime of the movie), that will already make Rey's plot more interesting. And of course, their interactions have to go beyond: "Reyyyyyy, pleaaaaaaase..." "YOU'RE A MONSTAH" And I mean, sure, I'm fully prepared not to see romantic Reylo, but I don't really see the Trevorrow guy handling that, and call me heteronormative, but attractive dude + attractive girl + 50-year-old virgin hermit + Desert Island = ???

@Irina de France