Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@MyOnlyHope and I FINALLY saw Rogue One today. It was great, pretty much exactly what I was expecting! Saddest moment for me was K2SO's death (I knew I was going to have a soft spot for him before I even saw the movie because he had such sweet eyes in the promos). He was so cute too, ugh. I'm glad all the rumours that the ending was changed turned out to be entirely false. The film really had to have that kind of ending IMO, it was really impactful. I really loved seeing the old temples and learning that the Death Star's weapon was made out of refined kyber crystals. Also, I'm not sure I agree with some statements I've seen elsewhere in reviews and such that there was no romance in this film. There was definitely something between Jyn and Cassien, but it was subtle. You get the sense that it would have gone somewhere had the story not ended when and how it did. Just goes to show you don't need anything overt or forced.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Fizz! You're back!!!  

I definitely agree, the romance was subtle, but definitely there! K2SO's death was the beginning of the end. After they showed that I knew they were going to pull out all the stops and every single character was going to have a heroic death.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@MyOnlyHope and I FINALLY saw Rogue One today. It was great, pretty much exactly what I was expecting! Saddest moment for me was K2SO's death (I knew I was going to have a soft spot for him before I even saw the movie because he had such sweet eyes in the promos). He was so cute too, ugh. I'm glad all the rumours that the ending was changed turned out to be entirely false. The film really had to have that kind of ending IMO, it was really impactful. I really loved seeing the old temples and learning that the Death Star's weapon was made out of refined kyber crystals. Also, I'm not sure I agree with some statements I've seen elsewhere in reviews and such that there was no romance in this film. There was definitely something between Jyn and Cassien, but it was subtle. You get the sense that it would have gone somewhere had the story not ended when and how it did. Just goes to show you don't need anything overt or forced.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Fizzgig oh my gosh we've missed you in these parts!!!  Welcome back!  

Completely agree with your romance comment about Jyn and Cassian.  While the story is still cohesive without the romance arc, anyone who says it's not there is missing an integral layer to this story.  I definitely read it as the love story that was cut short.  Not only a love story, but the loss of the future generations who never came to fruition out of that romance.  It's an incredible tragedy, and anyone who didn't see it is severely missing out.

And I agree with you on K2S0. I almost liked him more than BB8 (and I loved BB8).

Fizz, we missed you! So glad to see you back!

Very pleased to hear you loved Rogue One and YES I agree completely about the understated romance. It's been very interesting to see it completely dismissed in some reviews and denied in *cough* certain corners of the fandom online. How it ended between them felt so fitting for the story and their character arcs. It's not as if you need a kiss to show that development between two characters who initially had a certain amount of antagonism.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@MyOnlyHope and I FINALLY saw Rogue One today. It was great, pretty much exactly what I was expecting! Saddest moment for me was K2SO's death (I knew I was going to have a soft spot for him before I even saw the movie because he had such sweet eyes in the promos). He was so cute too, ugh. I'm glad all the rumours that the ending was changed turned out to be entirely false. The film really had to have that kind of ending IMO, it was really impactful. I really loved seeing the old temples and learning that the Death Star's weapon was made out of refined kyber crystals. Also, I'm not sure I agree with some statements I've seen elsewhere in reviews and such that there was no romance in this film. There was definitely something between Jyn and Cassien, but it was subtle. You get the sense that it would have gone somewhere had the story not ended when and how it did. Just goes to show you don't need anything overt or forced.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Welcome back!  

I immediately had a soft spot for K2 as well, he might even be my favorite character in the movie. I liked the idea of a reprogrammed imperial droid with a peculiar sense of humor. I teared up when we lost him. He was so interesting and wonderfully hilarious. Made every scene he was in better. I also really liked Alan Tudyk's comments on K2's personality, how he is very much like a child, completely honest to the point of saying socially inappropriate things and being inadvertendly offensive, etc. Great stuff!

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2yyT_md7KI

Queen of the Knights wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@MyOnlyHope and I FINALLY saw Rogue One today. It was great, pretty much exactly what I was expecting! Saddest moment for me was K2SO's death (I knew I was going to have a soft spot for him before I even saw the movie because he had such sweet eyes in the promos). He was so cute too, ugh. I'm glad all the rumours that the ending was changed turned out to be entirely false. The film really had to have that kind of ending IMO, it was really impactful. I really loved seeing the old temples and learning that the Death Star's weapon was made out of refined kyber crystals. Also, I'm not sure I agree with some statements I've seen elsewhere in reviews and such that there was no romance in this film. There was definitely something between Jyn and Cassien, but it was subtle. You get the sense that it would have gone somewhere had the story not ended when and how it did. Just goes to show you don't need anything overt or forced.

@FrolickingFizzgig

So happy to see you back!  

I immediately had a soft spot for K2 as well, he might even be my favorite character in the movie. I liked the idea of a reprogrammed imperial droid with a peculiar sense of humor. I teared up when we lost him. He was so interesting and wonderfully hilarious. Made every scene he was in better. I also really liked Alan Tudyk's comments on K2's personality, how he is very much like a child, completely honest to the point of saying socially inappropriate things and being inadvertendly offensive, etc. Great stuff!

Here is the link:

@Queen of the Knights
I also absolutely adore the movie iRobot and Sonny (it's one of my favourite films actually, be surprised!), so of course I was bound to love K2S0. Alan Tudyk also plays Sonny. Maybe they were urged to hire him for this role because of that one, I don't really know.

Queen of the Knights wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@MyOnlyHope and I FINALLY saw Rogue One today. It was great, pretty much exactly what I was expecting! Saddest moment for me was K2SO's death (I knew I was going to have a soft spot for him before I even saw the movie because he had such sweet eyes in the promos). He was so cute too, ugh. I'm glad all the rumours that the ending was changed turned out to be entirely false. The film really had to have that kind of ending IMO, it was really impactful. I really loved seeing the old temples and learning that the Death Star's weapon was made out of refined kyber crystals. Also, I'm not sure I agree with some statements I've seen elsewhere in reviews and such that there was no romance in this film. There was definitely something between Jyn and Cassien, but it was subtle. You get the sense that it would have gone somewhere had the story not ended when and how it did. Just goes to show you don't need anything overt or forced.

@FrolickingFizzgig

So happy to see you back!  

I immediately had a soft spot for K2 as well, he might even be my favorite character in the movie. I liked the idea of a reprogrammed imperial droid with a peculiar sense of humor. I teared up when we lost him. He was so interesting and wonderfully hilarious. Made every scene he was in better. I also really liked Alan Tudyk's comments on K2's personality, how he is very much like a child, completely honest to the point of saying socially inappropriate things and being inadvertendly offensive, etc. Great stuff!

Here is the link:

@Queen of the Knights

I loved K2SO, too.

My husband made a funny comment when we left the theater--he'd said that he knew that no one else from the Rogue One crew was going to survive as soon as "they killed the droid".

Dropping by to say hi. Hubby and I went to Rogue One last night. I was very disappointed. To me, the pace was too fast, the plot seemed like a lot of rushing here and there, the characters were shallow, and the relationships underdeveloped.

It was beautiful to look at and the action looked good, but to me this film was like the worst of TFA without the deep characters and future storyline to intrigue.

I hope VIII is better.

AnneNeville wrote:Dropping by to say hi. Hubby and I went to Rogue One last night. I was very disappointed. To me, the pace was too fast, the plot seemed like a lot of rushing here and there, the characters were shallow, and the relationships underdeveloped.

It was beautiful to look at and the action looked good, but to me this film was like the worst of TFA without the deep characters and future storyline to intrigue.

I hope VIII is better.

@AnneNeville

You are back

This movie is really a hit or miss. It was a miss for me too. I watched Godzilla a week ago and had exactly the same issues. To notice at the end that it was also directed by Gareth Edwards. Some cool stuff in Godzilla but I felt no connection with the characters. I actually felt more for the 2 monsters whose "romance" was just more believable than the oversweetened human romance. The whole movie felt like a puzzle where the pieces are actually there and sorted but not connected. And I then realized that R1 was like that to me. Should work, everything is there but it doesn't. Except for Bodhi. I like him.

Some more details on the changes that were made to Rogue One http://io9.gizmodo.com/more-details-about-what-rogue-ones-reshoots-actually-ch-1790711976?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_twitter&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

seems like vaders castle was an early George lucas concept.

Also random question. Does anyone know what kind of work prisoners had to do at the Wobani camp?

Gemini wrote:seems like vaders castle was an early George lucas concept.

Also random question. Does anyone know what kind of work prisoners had to do at the Wobani camp?

@Gemini

I don't know, but it did look like quarry work when I saw it.  There is a lot of strip mining for minerals and digging for crystals in Catalyst ...hmmm ... I guess that could come back in some way ... at least in a book.

Has anyone read the Rogue One book? Did you like it?

Parody of the current fanboy trend re. crapping on TFA and nerdgasming over RO.

Saw Rogue One again today with my son this time. One of his comments: 'I love the romance at the end of the movie before they die.'

@BastilaBey

That's great! And it'll fly over the heads of the people making the comments bashing TFA in comparison and saying that it's in the same league as ESB are ridiculous. R1 is the sleekly designed to please the faithful w/no surprises popcorn entertainment which I expected for TFA and then got completely shocked/surprised. Also the ridiculous part of the ESB comparisons is that it's not just that the movie is dark/downbeat. It's that they took the characters from something that was light hearted and upended them into situations which challenged and deepened the characters relationships. In a lot of ways, it exceeded the original work. There's no room for that with R1 because it's a one shot with no room for future installments.

It's funny because people complain about the nostalgia in TFA....while loving RO for nostalgia. Which I get due to the story and the timeline, but it's kinda hypocritical. I've seen fanboys saying this is 'their' Star Wars; dark and depressing with death/destruction. Especially the Vader stuff, they love the Vader violence. Not sure how this is 'their' SW considering the old SW films were never about darkness or violence. They featured them, but they were never about them.

It is interesting being involved in the Star Wars fandom. I was not until TFA. Though I enjoyed Rogue one and liked the movie. I don't think it was necessarily better than TFA. The relationships between Leia, Han, Kylo and Luke really interest me. Also the Kylo and Rey relationship is extremely interesting. I liked Jyn and Cassian. But I felt their story was told. There was a bittersweet moment when you realize they cared about each other but were going to die within minutes. It was subtle. But I felt their story was complete. I am kind of interested in possibly reading a book about Cassian's spy adventures prior to Rogue One. I kind of hope they write one. However, if they don't that is ok.

Helix wrote:It's funny because people complain about the nostalgia in TFA....while loving RO for nostalgia. Which I get due to the story and the timeline, but it's kinda hypocritical. I've seen fanboys saying this is 'their' Star Wars; dark and depressing with death/destruction. Especially the Vader stuff, they love the Vader violence. Not sure how this is 'their' SW considering the old SW films were never about darkness or violence. They featured them, but they were never about them.

@Helix

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I have to admit I've never really liked Darth Vader or at least some fans' perception of him. I like Anakin Skywalker, his real, human self, but I can't bring myself to like Vader. There is nothing "cool" about a shell of a man with a funny mask who has lost everything he ever cared about, even his own free will. Because Palpatine was pulling all the strings, just like Snoke in the new story. Sure, the scene at the end of R1 looks good from a technical POV, it's very intense and suspenseful. But emotionally, it just reminds me of the worst in Vader, of what he had turned into until Luke helped him realise he was terribly wrong. I don't want that for Kylo so that a bunch of idiots who understand nothing about SW can be satisfied. The same ones who think he should've stayed with the mask on. Being a cool villain with a bad*** voice has never been the point of this story in any of the trilogies. It's incredibly sad that anyone can think that. I can only despise this superficial, heartless mentality even if it's just fiction. The castle in R1 was a nice addition, but I doubt the fans of cool spectacles can realise just how tragic and haunting that detail really is.

If I'm sarcastic at times, forgive me, sometimes I try to cheer myself up or you guys if I can. But the truth is, we all love Kylo and I'm sure none of us wants that path for him. This is why I hated when MSW compared his cloak to that of Vader. Because any connection to the Vader part of Anakin gives me cold chills. And when Adam said "depends on what you mean by living", I instinctively thought of the worst possible scenario (which is worse than death) even though I know they'd never do that to him. If they did, I'd just forget SW ever existed. It's impossible. I want to see Kylo's eyes in IX, filled with guilt and grief, but also love and hope, not a half-machine, half-human being who will get redemption 5 min before the end. Vader's story was finished, he had nothing left to do with his life after gaining Luke's forgiveness. I've cried at that scene more than once, but I don't want to see it again in a different form. Kylo is young and deserves to have a chance for love. And I just can't imagine our heroine's story not being tied to that in a significant way. SW is and always has been about humanity, compassion and love.

One of my friends, who is a fanboy, posted an article from teen vogue saying how there isn't romance in Rogue One and how that is good. I countered saying that at the end of the movie they did care about each other and this is why.....blah blah blah. Then another fanboy friend pointed out that he only saw that they completed the mission and knew they were going to die. So that is why they held hands.....

I love my fanboy friends but they don't pick up on nuances. If my 9 year old child said he saw that they cared about each other....and I saw it too. Then it is there. Is it a full on romance? No! but the bittersweet what could have been plus the nuance makes this story. Just like TFA. I am so frustrated right now. Thank god of all of you! Otherwise I think what I saw was made up in my head.

Birdwoman wrote:One of my friends, who is a fanboy, posted an article from teen vogue saying how there isn't romance in Rogue One and how that is good. I countered saying that at the end of the movie they did care about each other and this is why.....blah blah blah.  Then another fanboy friend pointed out that he only saw that they completed the mission and knew they were going to die.  So that is why they held hands.....

I love my fanboy friends but they don't pick up on nuances. If my 9 year old child said he saw that they cared about each other....and I saw it too.  Then it is there. Is it a full on romance?  No! but the bittersweet what could have been plus the nuance makes this story.  Just like TFA. I am so frustrated right now. Thank god of all of you!  Otherwise I think what I saw was made up in my head.

@Birdwoman

This pretty much highlights the problem LF will have with most fanboys in relation to the ST and most likely the rest of the franchise. They don't see the story and the context behind it. Most of them seem to have preferred RO over TFA and I'm willing to bet that's because they only saw the bare bones of each movie. With TFA, they didn't see the strange connection between the heroine and the villain, nor the tragic relationship between the corrupted and isolated child and his estranged father. They only picked up on the fact that TFA was similar to ANH and the parallels between Luke and Rey (therefore automatically meaning she's is daughter in their eyes). They also didn't pick up on the complexity of Kylo Ren's character, instead only seeing him as a "weak, emo crybaby" who failed to live up to Vader's bad-a**-ness. With RO, they only see a really cool action movie with awesome space battles, cool easter eggs and Vader being awesome at the end. No discussion on Jyn and Cassian's development from mistrust and lies to mutual respect and trust. No discussion on Jyn's tragic estrangement from her father, or Chirrut and Baze's situation - the "nuances" of the story.

Every time I see something like this, I'm always reminded of Adam Driver's comments on Rian Johnson "not holding anything back" and believing his audience is "ready for nuances". I do not believe that these SW fans are ready with everything they have missed/ignored/shut down speculation on with the last two movies. The GA on the other hand, I do believe are ready. The vast amount of GA people I've personally interacted with seemed open minded to Reylo and Kylo's humanity, regardless of whether I gave my intake on it and most seemed to see that Jyn and Cassian had something special at the end of RO. They also really enjoyed the grey complex characters and the dark, gritty tone that RO offered, so I'm pretty confident that they will love VIII and the growth of Ren and Rey as characters and their relationship provided it is done well.

I still haven't seen R1 (will in a couple of days)... but the Jyn & Cassian romance was visible even from the trailers. People choose to be blind cause they probably think having no romance in a movie with a female lead is proggresive.

*Some of them, the other one are bitter fanboys, but that's already been discussed

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:One of my friends, who is a fanboy, posted an article from teen vogue saying how there isn't romance in Rogue One and how that is good. I countered saying that at the end of the movie they did care about each other and this is why.....blah blah blah.  Then another fanboy friend pointed out that he only saw that they completed the mission and knew they were going to die.  So that is why they held hands.....

I love my fanboy friends but they don't pick up on nuances. If my 9 year old child said he saw that they cared about each other....and I saw it too.  Then it is there. Is it a full on romance?  No! but the bittersweet what could have been plus the nuance makes this story.  Just like TFA. I am so frustrated right now. Thank god of all of you!  Otherwise I think what I saw was made up in my head.

@Birdwoman

This pretty much highlights the problem LF will have with most fanboys in relation to the ST and most likely the rest of the franchise. They don't see the story and the context behind it. Most of them seem to have preferred RO over TFA and I'm willing to bet that's because they only saw the bare bones of each movie. With TFA, they didn't see the strange connection between the heroine and the villain, nor the tragic relationship between the corrupted and isolated child and his estranged father. They only picked up on the fact that TFA was similar to ANH and the parallels between Luke and Rey (therefore automatically meaning she's is daughter in their eyes). They also didn't pick up on the complexity of Kylo Ren's character, instead only seeing him as a "weak, emo crybaby" who failed to live up to Vader's bad-a**-ness. With RO, they only see a really cool action movie with awesome space battles, cool easter eggs and Vader being awesome at the end. No discussion on Jyn and Cassian's development from mistrust and lies to mutual respect and trust. No discussion on Jyn's tragic estrangement from her father, or Chirrut and Baze's situation - the "nuances" of the story.

Every time I see something like this, I'm always reminded of Adam Driver's comments on Rian Johnson "not holding anything back" and believing his audience is "ready for nuances". I do not believe that these SW fans are ready with everything they have missed/ignored/shut down speculation on with the last two movies. The GA on the other hand, I do believe are ready. The vast amount of GA people I've personally interacted with seemed open minded to Reylo and Kylo's humanity, regardless of whether I gave my intake on it and most seemed to see that Jyn and Cassian had something special at the end of RO. They also really enjoyed the grey complex characters and the dark, gritty tone that RO offered, so I'm pretty confident that they will love VIII and the growth of Ren and Rey as characters and their relationship provided it is done well.

@AppleCrumble122

I agree, especially with the bolded. My experience discussing TFA and SW with people in real life (overwhelming GA people) has been similar to yours. They have been pretty open-minded about the direction of Rey and Kylo's dynamics. Even the people who think Rey is Luke's kid were open to the possibility of a nuanced relationship developing between Rey and Kylo and the possibility of Kylo's redemption, and Reylo, if she turned out to be unrelated. No one I spoke with complained that Rey must be a Skywalker or else they would feel deceived or the story would be ruined.

Felicity Jones and Diego Luna (and Riz Ahmed) were at the Golden Globes.

Rogue One hasn't done so well in China despite casting two big Chinese stars http://www.thewrap.com/heres-rogue-one-failed-take-off-china/