Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

jakkusun wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo wow that is a really interesting article. Maybe the reason I don't really think rogue one or tfa is better than the other myself is because I flip flop between thinking and feeling on personality tests. XD

They seem really certain TLJ will be a rehash. Yeah, hopefully, reylo and a kylo redemption without death will surprise them.

I just skimmed, but it seems to me that even though the author tries to say neither tfa nor rogue one is a better movie and that your preference depends on whether you are thinking or feeling, the article seems really biased toward rogue one, I guess because this person is a "thinking person", themselves. I feel like the way they write about the "world building" of rogue one makes it sound superior to the "sentiment" of tfa. Lol

well, hopefully TLJ will have both world building and sentiment/nostalgia. I think, based on what we've been hearing, that TLJ might just accomplish that balance. Haha ...balance... ;)

@jakkusun

Agreed, there is an underlying R1 bias in the article. I do think that's the overall premise in the pro-camp, if you like it, it's because you're in the smarter world building camp. Also all of the "it's like ESB" comments get it pretty wrong considering that TFA has more overt callbacks and themes related to it. Meanwhile R1 is a straight up piece of fan fiction imo for the original movie.

The lightsaber seemed to be way more fiery in the TLJ preview than his old one. I wondered if it's "new" in this sense (a sort of saber we've not seen before). I also wondered if it could set things on fire in a way an "ordinary" lightsaber can't.

I wonder if MSW's idea that Luke has Vader's kyber crystal and Kylo will want to take it and will use it to eventually stabilize his own lightsaber is correct. I hope not, because that symbolism suggests that the story isn't going to go how we want it to.

ZioRen wrote:I wonder if MSW's idea that Luke has Vader's kyber crystal and Kylo will want to take it and will use it to eventually stabilize his own lightsaber is correct. I hope not, because that symbolism suggests that the story isn't going to go how we want it to.

@ZioRen

I wouldn't worry. MSW isn't even sure that the crystal figures into the overall story, or if it's just a "cool accessory" that Luke wears.

Even if Kylo wants to take the crystal (especially early on in the story), I'd still bet that it would have something to do with reuniting it with the Anakin saber crystal or something like that.

salmund wrote:https://imgur.com/a/DcFvJ?grid

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67rk3z/got_my_hands_on_the_guardians_of_the_whills_book/

@salmund

Interesting... Lots of excerpts in those pages about avoiding extremes and finding a middle ground...

Is the crystal going to be like the map, a McGuffin when really it's all centered around Rey? And the whole deeper, more ancient mythology coming into focus brings back one of the older theories on here. That she's a descendant of that group or her parents (like Chirrut & Baze) were affiliated with it.

The Vader crystal stabilizing the lightsaber sounds very Fanboy theory-ish like Kylo's cape being Vader's.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

salmund wrote:https://imgur.com/a/DcFvJ?grid

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67rk3z/got_my_hands_on_the_guardians_of_the_whills_book/

@salmund

Interesting... Lots of excerpts in those pages about avoiding extremes and finding a middle ground...

@ISeeAnIsland

I find it interesting that the Sith chant is part of their book, while the jedi chant is included but considered apocryphal.

Helix wrote:The Vader crystal stabilizing the lightsaber sounds very Fanboy theory-ish like Kylo's cape being Vader's.

@Helix

Maybe Kylo will actually find a blue saber crystal to stabilize it and have a purple saber.

snufkin wrote:Is the crystal going to be like the map, a McGuffin when really it's all centered around Rey? And the whole deeper, more ancient mythology coming into focus brings back one of the older theories on here. That she's a descendant of that group or her parents (like Chirrut & Baze) were affiliated with it.

@snufkin

If taken at face value, the name "First Order" could theoretically refer to Snoke being an original Force user/worshipper. Maybe Rey's lineage fits into that in some way?

Helix wrote:

Helix wrote:The Vader crystal stabilizing the lightsaber sounds very Fanboy theory-ish like Kylo's cape being Vader's.

@Helix

Maybe Kylo will actually find a blue saber crystal to stabilize it and have a purple saber.

@Helix

Exactly what I thought actually.

Besides the

panki wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

salmund wrote:https://imgur.com/a/DcFvJ?grid

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67rk3z/got_my_hands_on_the_guardians_of_the_whills_book/

@salmund

Interesting... Lots of excerpts in those pages about avoiding extremes and finding a middle ground...

@ISeeAnIsland

I find it interesting that the Sith chant is part of their book, while the jedi chant is included but considered apocryphal.

@panki

Yes - that was very intriguing. As was the mention of reincarnation.

I think the Whills' approach to the Dark Side is very different from that of the Jedi, going by this poem:

"Where you see darkness,
I see stars."

I was also intrigued by the mention of the Royal Court of Onderon! *insert eye emoji here* Then again, Canto Bight probably isn't on Onderon (despite the visual similarities) so I don't know how Onderon might be relevant anymore... but still. But interesting that royalty apparently patronised Whill poets - which would seem to imply that there were royalty who were Whills or associated with the Whills (if "Whills" is a religion, which I don't really know; I always assumed "Whills" were some higher beings and the guardians and disciples etc. were their followers/worshippers).

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:Is the crystal going to be like the map, a McGuffin when really it's all centered around Rey? And the whole deeper, more ancient mythology coming into focus brings back one of the older theories on here. That she's a descendant of that group or her parents (like Chirrut & Baze) were affiliated with it.

@snufkin

If taken at face value, the name "First Order" could theoretically refer to Snoke being an original Force user/worshipper. Maybe Rey's lineage fits into that in some way?

@ISeeAnIsland

It is a curious name for an organization that's meant to come after the original version. Especially when the competing faction is the "New [version of the old thing]" And that also slots into my ongoing suspicion that her background and the tragedy which likely destroyed her family is tied directly to whatever type of force user Snoke is and whatever agenda he's using the FO/Imperial Remnants/Ben to accomplish.

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:Is the crystal going to be like the map, a McGuffin when really it's all centered around Rey? And the whole deeper, more ancient mythology coming into focus brings back one of the older theories on here. That she's a descendant of that group or her parents (like Chirrut & Baze) were affiliated with it.

@snufkin

If taken at face value, the name "First Order" could theoretically refer to Snoke being an original Force user/worshipper. Maybe Rey's lineage fits into that in some way?

@ISeeAnIsland

It is a curious name for an organization that's meant to come after the original version. Especially when the competing faction is the "New [version of the old thing]" And that also slots into my ongoing suspicion that her background and the tragedy which likely destroyed her family is tied directly to whatever type of force user Snoke is and whatever agenda he's using the FO/Imperial Remnants/Ben to accomplish.

@snufkin

If Ben and Luke discovered something really damning about the Jedi, as many of us suspect, it could certainly make Ben more vulnerable to a spiritual leader from an ancient order that perhaps opposed the Jedi in some way.

@ISeeAnIsland - you may be on to something there. Especially a possible explanation as to how Snoke seems to know both siblings and have had familiarity with Ben. If Luke was all weirdo New Age space hippie wearing crystals and doing lore exploring/relic hunting* and running into ancient beings like Maz, who's to say Snoke wasn't hanging around her bar?

* I'm still thinking her parents may have been involved with that angle as well given all the recent-ish interviews Lawrence Kasdan has done where he talked about all the things he wanted to do in his screenplays for Lucas. He got the chance to finally use the character/story arcs he wanted for the OT and he's also talked about the backstory for Marian and her father that got scrapped. Rey's life on Jakku sounds similar.

snufkin wrote:@ISeeAnIsland - you may be on to something there. Especially a possible explanation as to how Snoke seems to know both siblings and have had familiarity with Ben. If Luke was all weirdo New Age space hippie wearing crystals and doing lore exploring/relic hunting* and running into ancient beings like Maz, who's to say Snoke wasn't hanging around her bar?

* I'm still thinking her parents may have been involved with that angle as well given all the recent-ish interviews Lawrence Kasdan has done where he talked about all the things he wanted to do in his screenplays for Lucas. He got the chance to finally use the character/story arcs he wanted for the OT and he's also talked about the backstory for Marian and her father that got scrapped. Rey's life on Jakku sounds similar.

@snufkin

Snoke keeps coming around to hit on Maz, but she tells him she's already got her heart set on a dreamy wookiee.

Wasn't the plot for the ST ( or what was supposed to be ) compared to Anastasia? Was that the current Disney ST or was that Lucas' draft?

Helix wrote:Wasn't the plot for the ST ( or what was supposed to be ) compared to Anastasia? Was that the current Disney ST or was that Lucas' draft?

@Helix

The comparison (which I believe was for the near-final TFA draft) came from one of George Lucas's sons.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Helix wrote:Wasn't the plot for the ST ( or what was supposed to be ) compared to Anastasia? Was that the current Disney ST or was that Lucas' draft?

@Helix

The comparison (which I believe was for the near-final TFA draft) came from one of George Lucas's sons.

@ISeeAnIsland

I'm only going off Bluth's version, but I can easily Snoke being a Rasputin-ish character.

Helix wrote:

snufkin wrote:@ISeeAnIsland - you may be on to something there. Especially a possible explanation as to how Snoke seems to know both siblings and have had familiarity with Ben. If Luke was all weirdo New Age space hippie wearing crystals and doing lore exploring/relic hunting* and running into ancient beings like Maz, who's to say Snoke wasn't hanging around her bar?

* I'm still thinking her parents may have been involved with that angle as well given all the recent-ish interviews Lawrence Kasdan has done where he talked about all the things he wanted to do in his screenplays for Lucas. He got the chance to finally use the character/story arcs he wanted for the OT and he's also talked about the backstory for Marian and her father that got scrapped. Rey's life on Jakku sounds similar.

@snufkin

Snoke keeps coming around to hit on Maz, but she tells him she's already got her heart set on a dreamy wookiee.

@Helix

Hey for all you know Han the World's Most Inappropriate Dad took Ben there when he was a kid and some creepy old dude popped up when he was poking around the same basement where Rey had her Force Vision. I had figured the whole reason he turned up there besides "meet this dreamy girl I've been hearing about" was because he'd been there before as a kid and maybe had a grudge against Maz (being the Thief in his whole "your friends" speech) for swiping the saber.

panki wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

salmund wrote:https://imgur.com/a/DcFvJ?grid

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67rk3z/got_my_hands_on_the_guardians_of_the_whills_book/

@salmund

Interesting...  Lots of excerpts in those pages about avoiding extremes and finding a middle ground...

@ISeeAnIsland

I find it interesting that the Sith chant is part of their book, while the jedi chant is included but considered apocryphal.

@panki

This! That was very interesting. It was the only "apocryphal" mention. Keeping in mind that the other reddit spoiler is probably fake ( though tbh I love a lot of it), I think there is a major chance that the Jedi will be founded on some big lie, hence the "apocryphal".

Also, this stuff looks like pure gold. Lots of Kylo and Reylo friendly stuff in here, like the coming out of the darkness and "the balance of the force being between breaths". Think about that in light of all breathing and heartbeats that happen with Rey and Kylo.

Also, it definitely looks like there is an afterlife and in addition, a strong argument for some kind of reincarnation. I can't wait to get this book! I didn't even know it was coming out!

Darth Dingbat wrote:Besides the

panki wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

salmund wrote:https://imgur.com/a/DcFvJ?grid

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67rk3z/got_my_hands_on_the_guardians_of_the_whills_book/

@salmund

Interesting... Lots of excerpts in those pages about avoiding extremes and finding a middle ground...

@ISeeAnIsland

I find it interesting that the Sith chant is part of their book, while the jedi chant is included but considered apocryphal.

@panki

Yes - that was very intriguing. As was the mention of reincarnation.

I think the Whills' approach to the Dark Side is very different from that of the Jedi, going by this poem:

"Where you see darkness,
I see stars."

I was also intrigued by the mention of the Royal Court of Onderon! *insert eye emoji here* Then again, Canto Bight probably isn't on Onderon (despite the visual similarities) so I don't know how Onderon might be relevant anymore... but still. But interesting that royalty apparently patronised Whill poets - which would seem to imply that there were royalty who were Whills or associated with the Whills (if "Whills" is a religion, which I don't really know; I always assumed "Whills" were some higher beings and the guardians and disciples etc. were their followers/worshippers).

@Darth Dingbat

I thought of you when I read about Onderon... Not sure how it will all connect up but I like your idea of royals linked to Whills...maybe the Elder House families still have some connection to the Whills, and Canto Bight is one of their meeting places? I have a similar view of the Whills- thought they looked like the force priestess in TCW and belonged to a now extinct race, something like the Kwa in legends.

Someone had written a meta on GL and how he envisaged the whills on reddit, and it is interesting that GL distinguished between sith and dark siders when it comes to retaining consciousness after death...which means the dark side isn't bad in itself...and the reference to "seeing stars" is also curious, considering Leia's vision in the Aftermath series of someone snuffing out stars....which means whatever evil was hanging around in the Unknown Regions was an enemy of the light as well as the dark side of the force?

I'm also curious about the reincarnation references.... does it mean people are reborn or that they become spirit animals? I think it is also the former because of Maz's statement about seeing the same eyes on different people.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

panki wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

salmund wrote:https://imgur.com/a/DcFvJ?grid

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67rk3z/got_my_hands_on_the_guardians_of_the_whills_book/

@salmund

Interesting...  Lots of excerpts in those pages about avoiding extremes and finding a middle ground...

@ISeeAnIsland

I find it interesting that the Sith chant is part of their book, while the jedi chant is included but considered apocryphal.

@panki

This! That was very interesting. It was the only "apocryphal" mention. Keeping in mind that the other reddit spoiler is probably fake ( though tbh I love a lot of it), I think there is a major chance that the Jedi will be founded on some big lie, hence the "apocryphal".

Also, this stuff looks like pure gold. Lots of Kylo and Reylo friendly stuff in here, like the coming out of the darkness and "the balance of the force being between breaths". Think about that in light of all breathing and heartbeats that happen with Rey and Kylo.

Also, it definitely looks like there is an afterlife and in addition, a strong argument for some kind of reincarnation. I can't wait to get this book! I didn't even know it was coming out!

@SoloSideCousin

I never thought about the heartbeats and breathing...but the extracts from the prayer book really do lend support to the possibility that Rey and Kylo need to work together to bring about ome sort of balance.

As for the jedi being founded on a lie, I wonder if this might be the root of Luke's problem... that he and Kylo found out the truth about the jedi, but Luke might be unwilling to accept it....as a person gets older, they get more set in their way of thinking....so while farm boy Luke might have been more open minded, maybe jedi knight Luke refused to accept it...its like the Eastern belief that one can't learn if one's cup is filled....I feel that Kylo might have been more opening minded but with nobody to properly guide him, he fell prey to ancient conman Snoke.

The moment between breaths is the Balance of the Force
Between the life and death
Rest and action
Serenity and passion
Hope and despair

As we have predicted the Balance is something in the middle ground. Between Jedi and Sith. That's how I'am reading it.