ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 1

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I just read Ohtze's analysis.  I don't have a tumbler account but do lurk on a couple of blogs.  Was the fall out that great?  I didn't see it but I don't lurk on a lot of Star Wars fandom sites.  

@Birdwoman

The fallout was huge. Tumblr, twitter, and a bunch of forums melted down. On tumblr in particular there was a lot of despair over Rey "not being a Skywalker." A lot of rage, and a lot of "NOW let's treat each other with respect" from the antis when the tables were turned, but no one was having any of it. There was too much pent-up anger at mistreatment, and it all came spilling out. Some reylos were a lil' bit too jubilant, and tag invasion/raids were involved.

I've screencapped it all, in case it's needed later.

@Ohtze
Was the reaction to the meaningless damage-control similar as well? As in the diehard fans who were already saying JJ/Pablo were lying immediately latched on as if it was actually clarifying anything? Or have most accepted that it's as we said all along, she's not a Skywalker?

Also good to see you again!

I would be willing to treat anybody with respect, honestly. I just expect the same in return.

@FrolickingFizzgig

they latched onto it desperately, but I still think they know the truth of it all..the fight seems to have left a lot of people

@Gemini

I'd have to agree (about the fight leaving a lot of people). The fallout from Reygate was much bigger, but the Rey Solo debunking actually provoked a more vicious response? Even after JJ issued the second statement, there was just an overwhelming sense of despair, and it (generally) didn't improve their mood from what I saw. I think it has to do with Jyn Erso being debunked as Rey's mum less than a week before, and no Rey Solo to fall back on. The hits keep on coming (quicker and quicker), and they're (starting) to run out of options.

During Reygate I saw a post floating around, where they were asking if Force Bonds were actually a thing in Star Wars canon (and not something we made up). The OP had to admit that yes, Force Bonds were actually a thing, and there's a precedent for it - that we didn't invent it. That response did not go down well, especially during the middle of Reygate.

@Ohtze

What did the op say and who were they

I also think daisys comment about them both finding the force a few weeks prior to reygate also deflated them. JJs comments were the final nail in the coffin.

They are going through the 7 stages alright. I'd say they are at the denial and anger stage. Heck I think bargaining might be starting they are grasping at straws an making silly theories

@Gemini

Irrc naming people from other places is against the forum's rules (so I won't do that), and I'm a bit iffy about quoting them directly, since it wouldn't be for discussion purposes (hope you don't mind).

Basically anon asked if we had made up the "force bond" theory to justify our abusive "sick" ship. OP said unfortunately, no, we hadn't (as much as they wanted it to be), and then named Bastila and Revan and Luke and Vader as precedents for a Force Bond, and the different variations on it. OP did not directly insult us, but you could tell they wanted to. The admission of Force Bond precedents in the SW EU did not go down well. We were called parasites and monsters. There were a lot of "sick to my stomach" replies, and "I'm crying and shaking I'm so upset." A few "I hope they burn/burn alive." Some started blaming Star Wars and LF directly.

EDIT:

@MyOnlyHope - do you mean Daisy's cat tweet? (i.e. Cat's out of the bag)

@Ohtze
God I'm glad I stay away from Tumblr for the most part. I've managed to avoid hate altogether... haven't received a single hate message. I received one comment (a bunch of swearing about how I was ruining a story for children on my meta about children's stories written by someone who has studied children's stories). I've only blocked that one person. I probably just don't have certain settings clicked on though (the ones that would allow me to receive anonymous hate).

But wow, such a freak out over someone admitting that Force Bonds actually exist in the Star Wars universe. They thought Reylo fans were making it up all that time? It's the people who melt down like that who are going to be in for a massive awakening if (and when) this thing actually becomes canon. @Gemini was also bombarded on her musical analysis this morning by an anti who exclaimed that Rey's theme containing Across the Stars is proof that she is related to Anakin. Meanwhile they disregarded the fact that Kylo's theme also contains those same three notes, that Rey's theme is meant to complete Ren's theme and that the Across the Stars notes are backwards.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Well I mean the antis are generally nasty - like the parasite and monster comments are a daily affair for us over in the trenches of tumblr - but tbf the Reylos were really lettin' them feel it that night, so they were a bit more hyperbolic than normal. I mean the Reylos were spamming the Rey Skywalker tag with stuff like this:



There was much rejoicing.

@Ohtze Thank you for that video. I never saw that. It was quite the watch. Reminds me of a similar video the NaruHina shippers used to taunt the NaruSaku shippers when NaruHina became canon... I wasn't involved but I watched it unfold on Tumblr. It was quite the night.



Yeah, I can see why the antis wouldn't have reacted well to that video. I guess they were tagging it in the anti pages and everything.

Question: do antis who believe in "Rey Skywalker" have anything comparable with our metas?
While at it, @Ohtze @FrolickingFizzgig - thank you for your essays. The movie was one thing, but your metas totally blew my mind and made Reylo truly fascinating for me. And I wasn't even a SW fan.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Ohtze Thank you for that video. I never saw that. It was quite the watch. Reminds me of a similar video the NaruHina shippers used to taunt the NaruSaku shippers when NaruHina became canon... I wasn't involved but I watched it unfold on Tumblr. It was quite the night.



Yeah, I can see why the antis wouldn't have reacted well to that video. I guess they were tagging it in the anti pages and everything.

@FrolickingFizzgig

They were tagging everywhere. You know how people felt after the other forums closed the thread? The amount of pent up anger? Well, this was definitely 10x worse. I didn't approve of the tag invasion (I'm the kind of person who doesn't bite unless there's blood in the water/you s*** on my lawn), but I understood it.

Ohtze wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I just read Ohtze's analysis.  I don't have a tumbler account but do lurk on a couple of blogs.  Was the fall out that great?  I didn't see it but I don't lurk on a lot of Star Wars fandom sites.  

@Birdwoman

The fallout was huge. Tumblr, twitter, and a bunch of forums melted down. On tumblr in particular there was a lot of despair over Rey "not being a Skywalker." A lot of rage, and a lot of "NOW let's treat each other with respect" from the antis when the tables were turned, but no one was having any of it. There was too much pent-up anger at mistreatment, and it all came spilling out. Some reylos were a lil' bit too jubilant, and tag invasion/raids were involved.

I've screencapped it all, in case it's needed later.

@Ohtze
Was the reaction to the meaningless damage-control similar as well? As in the diehard fans who were already saying JJ/Pablo were lying immediately latched on as if it was actually clarifying anything? Or have most accepted that it's as we said all along, she's not a Skywalker?

Also good to see you again!

I would be willing to treat anybody with respect, honestly. I just expect the same in return.

@FrolickingFizzgig

they latched onto it desperately, but I still think they know the truth of it all..the fight seems to have left a lot of people

@Gemini

I'd have to agree (about the fight leaving a lot of people). The fallout from Reygate was much bigger, but the Rey Solo debunking actually provoked a more vicious response? Even after JJ issued the second statement, there was just an overwhelming sense of despair, and it (generally) didn't improve their mood from what I saw. I think it has to do with Jyn Erso being debunked as Rey's mum less than a week before, and no Rey Solo to fall back on. The hits keep on coming (quicker and quicker), and they're (starting) to run out of options.

During Reygate I saw a post floating around, where they were asking if Force Bonds were actually a thing in Star Wars canon (and not something we made up). The OP had to admit that yes, Force Bonds were actually a thing, and there's a precedent for it - that we didn't invent it. That response did not go down well, especially during the middle of Reygate.

@Ohtze

What did the op say and who were they

I also think daisys comment about them both finding the force a few weeks prior to reygate also deflated them. JJs comments were the final nail in the coffin.

They are going through the 7 stages alright. I'd say they are at the denial and anger stage. Heck I think bargaining might be starting they are grasping at straws an making silly theories

@Gemini

Irrc naming people from other places is against the forum's rules (so I won't do that), and I'm a bit iffy about quoting them directly, since it wouldn't be for discussion purposes (hope you don't mind).

Basically anon asked if we had made up the "force bond" theory to justify our abusive "sick" ship. OP said unfortunately, no, we hadn't (as much as they wanted it to be), and then named Bastila and Revan and Luke and Vader as precedents for a Force Bond, and the different variations on it. OP did not directly insult us, but you could tell they wanted to. The admission of Force Bond precedents in the SW EU did not go down well. We were called parasites and monsters. There were a lot of "sick to my stomach" replies, and "I'm crying and shaking I'm so upset." A few "I hope they burn/burn alive." Some started blaming Star Wars and LF directly.

EDIT:

@MyOnlyHope - do you mean Daisy's cat tweet? (i.e. Cat's out of the bag)

@Ohtze
God I'm glad I stay away from Tumblr for the most part. I've managed to avoid hate altogether... haven't received a single hate message. I received one comment (a bunch of swearing about how I was ruining a story for children on my meta about children's stories written by someone who has studied children's stories). I've only blocked that one person. I probably just don't have certain settings clicked on though (the ones that would allow me to receive anonymous hate).

But wow, such a freak out over someone admitting that Force Bonds actually exist in the Star Wars universe. They thought Reylo fans were making it up all that time? It's the people who melt down like that who are going to be in for a massive awakening if (and when) this thing actually becomes canon. @Gemini was also bombarded on her musical analysis this morning by an anti who exclaimed that Rey's theme containing Across the Stars is proof that she is related to Anakin. Meanwhile they disregarded the fact that Kylo's theme also contains those same three notes, that Rey's theme is meant to complete Ren's theme and that the Across the Stars notes are backwards.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Well I mean the antis are generally nasty - like the parasite and monster comments are a daily affair for us over in the trenches of tumblr - but tbf the Reylos were really lettin' them feel it that night, so they were a bit more hyperbolic than normal. I mean the Reylos were spamming the Rey Skywalker tag with stuff like this:



There was much rejoicing.

@Ohtze
So they didn't have anything to say about Daisy's cat comment? It's constantly glossed over/completely ignored whenever it gets shown to Reywalkers from my experience in the past two days. Anything Pablo tweets is written off because he's seen as an unprofessional troll who openly mocks fan theories, but I've yet to see even one of them try to explain Daisy's comment. The one FinnRey I did get a response from admitted the comment meant Rey is most likely not a Skywalker.

Jozie wrote:Question: do antis who believe in "Rey Skywalker" have anything comparable with our metas?
While at it, @Ohtze @FrolickingFizzgig - thank you for your essays. The movie was one thing, but your metas totally blew my mind and made Reylo truly fascinating for me. And I wasn't even a SW fan.

@Jozie
No, they don't seem to engage in much actual narrative/trope analysis. They just like to compare the faces of unrelated actors and draw meaningless parallels (i.e. Rey sits by a downed Walker and Luke downed a Walker). They will claim that there are too many parallels to ignore, and if they have any metas they're probably all based around listing Rey's parallels with Luke, while simultaneously ignoring Poe and Finn's more obvious parallels with Luke.

The problem is parallels are not narrative devices that are intended to impact the overarching story. They're often just little callbacks meant to allude to past events. They're mostly used for humorous effect only, and all Rey's parallels with Luke are actually just 1) references to her being the new zero-to-hero main character, and 2) characterization we're meant to contrast with her designated villain/foil, Kylo.

@Ohtze Yeah, I wouldn't have approved, but I wouldn't have done anything to stop it. I just wouldn't have gotten involved myself.

It's going to be two long years.

Still, ReyGate makes some sense. AshGate made none.

@"Josie"
And thank you very, very much. It feels amazing to hear that. I wrote that paper for everybody out there who wanted to see how Rey and Ren's dynamic fits into the genre/target-audience we know so well, and why it's the natural progression of the story they've started.

Ohtze wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Ohtze wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I just read Ohtze's analysis.  I don't have a tumbler account but do lurk on a couple of blogs.  Was the fall out that great?  I didn't see it but I don't lurk on a lot of Star Wars fandom sites.  

@Birdwoman

The fallout was huge. Tumblr, twitter, and a bunch of forums melted down. On tumblr in particular there was a lot of despair over Rey "not being a Skywalker." A lot of rage, and a lot of "NOW let's treat each other with respect" from the antis when the tables were turned, but no one was having any of it. There was too much pent-up anger at mistreatment, and it all came spilling out. Some reylos were a lil' bit too jubilant, and tag invasion/raids were involved.

I've screencapped it all, in case it's needed later.

@Ohtze
Was the reaction to the meaningless damage-control similar as well? As in the diehard fans who were already saying JJ/Pablo were lying immediately latched on as if it was actually clarifying anything? Or have most accepted that it's as we said all along, she's not a Skywalker?

Also good to see you again!

I would be willing to treat anybody with respect, honestly. I just expect the same in return.

@FrolickingFizzgig

they latched onto it desperately, but I still think they know the truth of it all..the fight seems to have left a lot of people

@Gemini

I'd have to agree (about the fight leaving a lot of people). The fallout from Reygate was much bigger, but the Rey Solo debunking actually provoked a more vicious response? Even after JJ issued the second statement, there was just an overwhelming sense of despair, and it (generally) didn't improve their mood from what I saw. I think it has to do with Jyn Erso being debunked as Rey's mum less than a week before, and no Rey Solo to fall back on. The hits keep on coming (quicker and quicker), and they're (starting) to run out of options.

During Reygate I saw a post floating around, where they were asking if Force Bonds were actually a thing in Star Wars canon (and not something we made up). The OP had to admit that yes, Force Bonds were actually a thing, and there's a precedent for it - that we didn't invent it. That response did not go down well, especially during the middle of Reygate.

@Ohtze

What did the op say and who were they

I also think daisys comment about them both finding the force a few weeks prior to reygate also deflated them. JJs comments were the final nail in the coffin.

They are going through the 7 stages alright. I'd say they are at the denial and anger stage. Heck I think bargaining might be starting they are grasping at straws an making silly theories

@Gemini

Irrc naming people from other places is against the forum's rules (so I won't do that), and I'm a bit iffy about quoting them directly, since it wouldn't be for discussion purposes (hope you don't mind).

Basically anon asked if we had made up the "force bond" theory to justify our abusive "sick" ship. OP said unfortunately, no, we hadn't (as much as they wanted it to be), and then named Bastila and Revan and Luke and Vader as precedents for a Force Bond, and the different variations on it. OP did not directly insult us, but you could tell they wanted to. The admission of Force Bond precedents in the SW EU did not go down well. We were called parasites and monsters. There were a lot of "sick to my stomach" replies, and "I'm crying and shaking I'm so upset." A few "I hope they burn/burn alive." Some started blaming Star Wars and LF directly.

EDIT:

@MyOnlyHope - do you mean Daisy's cat tweet? (i.e. Cat's out of the bag)

@Ohtze
God I'm glad I stay away from Tumblr for the most part. I've managed to avoid hate altogether... haven't received a single hate message. I received one comment (a bunch of swearing about how I was ruining a story for children on my meta about children's stories written by someone who has studied children's stories). I've only blocked that one person. I probably just don't have certain settings clicked on though (the ones that would allow me to receive anonymous hate).

But wow, such a freak out over someone admitting that Force Bonds actually exist in the Star Wars universe. They thought Reylo fans were making it up all that time? It's the people who melt down like that who are going to be in for a massive awakening if (and when) this thing actually becomes canon. @Gemini was also bombarded on her musical analysis this morning by an anti who exclaimed that Rey's theme containing Across the Stars is proof that she is related to Anakin. Meanwhile they disregarded the fact that Kylo's theme also contains those same three notes, that Rey's theme is meant to complete Ren's theme and that the Across the Stars notes are backwards.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Well I mean the antis are generally nasty - like the parasite and monster comments are a daily affair for us over in the trenches of tumblr - but tbf the Reylos were really lettin' them feel it that night, so they were a bit more hyperbolic than normal. I mean the Reylos were spamming the Rey Skywalker tag with stuff like this:



There was much rejoicing.

@Ohtze

OK, that video is hilarious. Gotta be honest, after being accused of being sexist, racist, gross, and perpetuating rape/harmful things for making the tongue in cheek remark, "I hope Rey isn't the Skywalker; I don't look at my cousins how Kylo does her" I understand the temptation as well. And I too do not bite unless someone sh**s on my lawn. This was on said night of JJ's big slip, btw, so I imagine it was due to the other party sh***ing their pants over the hard news. Anyway my general policy since has been, rather than bother to engage in dialogue, to send one Reylo fanart for every nasty comment I receive. The nastier the comment, the more risqué the art. I'm pushing 30 so it takes quite a lot to get under my skin, but what does bother me is that any Reylo shipper could be some 15 year old girl or, gee I dunno, an actual victim of sexual assault or abuse for all anyone knows. Essentially I imagine so many potential people who aren't as gigantic a cold-hearted c*** as I am and that worries me. I almost wish we had a fandom guideline in place for how to respond, because lord knows the Antis just make new accounts when they get blocked. One would think after receiving so many "here's a picture of the thing that offends you" responses they'd lose momentum. It's when people engage or actually defend themselves that lets the vampires in. Sorry, this turned from fun to a little ranty. To come full circle, it was a great vid and I get the impulse to tag. The little Kylo on my shoulder is already suggesting smarmy memes to save and send after I see Ep VIII, for goodness' sake.

This in...

Mana wrote:This in...

@Mana

I can't wait to get my mitts on this thing. Way more recently... Hm... Wonder if he's even already turned before the book begins. It's 6 years before TFA right? So no Kylo dropped Rey off for sure, but we already knew that. Geez, you know what the biggest mystery in this trilogy is for me? I could give bantha pee about Rey's lineage but I want to know what in the world was the final push for Kylo breaking bad.

Mana wrote:This in...

@Mana
So what Pablo's been saying all along? Shocking that some people thought he was lying. I'm happy it looks like we'll be getting at least a vague timeline from this book. ^^

has anyone read bloodlines...?

Mana wrote:has anyone read bloodlines...?

@Mana
It's not out yet. I guess some people have it already though. It's released officially on the 3rd of May.

I know Pablo already said Kylo turned years later but I'm so curious to find out when it was! Did I just make up Han feeling like it was the first time he'd seen the face of his adult son, or was that in one of the novel versions?

BastilaBey wrote:I know Pablo already said Kylo turned years later but I'm so curious to find out when it was! Did I just make up Han feeling like it was the first time he'd seen the face of his adult son, or was that in one of the novel versions?

@BastilaBey
It says that in the script. It definitely seems like Kylo had a more troublesome relationship with his father than he did with his mother. The whole timeline is a mess right now. I guess we'll at least know how long Luke and Kylo have been gone once Bloodline comes out.

MyOnlyHope wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:I know Pablo already said Kylo turned years later but I'm so curious to find out when it was! Did I just make up Han feeling like it was the first time he'd seen the face of his adult son, or was that in one of the novel versions?

@BastilaBey
It says that in the script. It definitely seems like Kylo had a more troublesome relationship with his father than he did with his mother. The whole timeline is a mess right now. I guess we'll at least know how long Luke and Kylo have been gone once Bloodline comes out.

@MyOnlyHope

I'd be surprised if they didn't reveal anything about Ben in bloodlines since its told through Leia...it would be weird though, because she knew Ben was being targeted by Snoke all along...

I can't wait until Bloodlines comes out.  We already discussed that Kylo's turn was at an older age than we originally thought and that matches the Young Man Staring at the Stars in a Rebellion Helmet vision.  If it is indeed Kylo, and we think it is, then Kylo was already fighting as a pilot for the resistance as a young adult.  But Snoke was probably already in his head from since he was a child.

Sorry if this was posted before but I'm still sticking to the Rey Kenobi theory or Rey Darkside theory until proven wrong. I don't know if I agree with the Lor San Tekka being Kenobi's son (that would mean Kylo killed Rey's father lol).

MyOnlyHope wrote:@Ohtze
So they didn't have anything to say about Daisy's cat comment? It's constantly glossed over/completely ignored whenever it gets shown to Reywalkers from my experience in the past two days. Anything Pablo tweets is written off because he's seen as an unprofessional troll who openly mocks fan theories, but I've yet to see even one of them try to explain Daisy's comment. The one FinnRey I did get a response from admitted the comment meant Rey is most likely not a Skywalker.

@MyOnlyHope

Nah. They say we're "reaching" on the cat comment. They refuse to acknowledge it beyond that.

A lot of antis don't like the idea of kenobi because it would point to rey and ren being much more destined to be together than a lot of options. It's a very unpopular opinion now which is why i think they have pushed the "she's s random" angle so much. Could be misdirected

Birdwoman wrote:I am not sure if this is the correct thread but I am curious.  I went into TFA totally spoiler free, didn't pay attention to all the fanfare until the day before it came out.  Asked my friends who went opening night if the movie was good.  Didn't have much expectation about the film when I got around to seeing it.

However, I am curious...when did all this Rey is Luke's daughter stuff start.  It happened before the film even came out correct?  I know they thought she was a Solo also.

@Birdwoman

Right upon film opened. I do rememeber reading comments during the first WE after the premiere (I went to see the first day, found it totally great, caught Reylo vibe, but due to my perspective of being a fan since original trilogy, I was slightly confused). Out of curiosity, I browesd a lot of first reactions and comments...then I thought I was losing my mind - because almost every fan site was dead sure Rey is Luke s daughter. Except for the Time review where the reviewer openly mentionned the sexual tension between Kylo and Rey - I was a bit releifed then .

Gemini wrote:A lot of antis don't like the idea of kenobi because it would point to rey and ren being much more destined to be together than a lot of options. It's a very unpopular opinion now which is why i think they have pushed the "she's s random" angle so much. Could be misdirected

@Gemini

Out of curiosity, how does Rey Kenobi point to Reylo being destined any more than Rey Random? Going with the reverse Anidala angle, Padme was a random, too (albeit a random Queen, but still).

I was spoiled before I saw the film because I read some comment on 9gag. It wasn't even a sentance it was about 3 words all to do with Han and his son. I didn't really care tbh I was still ok about seeing it. I don't mind being spoiled as long as it is enjoyable to watch. I was not prepared for the chemistry with Kylo and Rey so that was a lovely surprise. My reaction to the bridal carry was a large "eeeehhhhhhh, that is something I didn't expect"???? First viewing was not great because kids were causing trouble in the cinema. Second viewing was the best. Saw the hints and took it from there. Reylo began (I did not give it that term, didn't know the term ship). I searched online. Found you know where...wink wink and met others like me who were curious to discuss Kylo and Rey. I'm delighted this came out of the film. Big change for Star Wars. I don't even wanna know what the PT was like. I find the thought of shipping Anakin and Padme extremely boring. Considering we knew were they were heading anyway.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Gemini wrote:A lot of antis don't like the idea of kenobi because it would point to rey and ren being much more destined to be together than a lot of options. It's a very unpopular opinion now which is why i think they have pushed the "she's s random" angle so much. Could be misdirected

@Gemini

Out of curiosity, how does Rey Kenobi point to Reylo being destined any more than Rey Random? Going with the reverse Anidala angle, Padme was a random, too (albeit a random Queen, but still).

@Darth Dingbat

Can you imagine how strong in the force would their babies be? Skywalker and Kenobi woah xD

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Gemini wrote:A lot of antis don't like the idea of kenobi because it would point to rey and ren being much more destined to be together than a lot of options. It's a very unpopular opinion now which is why i think they have pushed the "she's s random" angle so much. Could be misdirected

@Gemini

Out of curiosity, how does Rey Kenobi point to Reylo being destined any more than Rey Random? Going with the reverse Anidala angle, Padme was a random, too (albeit a random Queen, but still).

@Darth Dingbat

I don't know if I buy the Kenobi theory anymore. I do know that at the beginning when Rey Skywalker was all over the place Kenobi was a safe place to fall back on.