Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Speaking of spoilers that cannot be linked, there's a Lego banner which is obviously a fantasy scenario but with stuff from the movie (Finn/Rose transporter pod, the walkers, space battle, The Silencer, etc) and it appears to introduce a big new Force power. namely, a character who looks like Rey from the back is shooting some blue light tornado from his/her hands that appears to protect a Mon Calamari ship from crashing. That thing is huge and I'd say it's a legit new power from the movie, but put in the fantasy context so the scene itself may not go exactly like that in the movie. That brings me to that rumor about SSD crashing on a planet with Kylo/Poe/Finn on it. Is it how the crash will be prevented? I mean, we don't even know whether the rumor is true but we are getting more and more evidence that there's something to it (another Lego set showed SSD orbiting Crait which allows the characters to lift themselves from the planet) and now this Force power that stops a ship from a crash or at least creates a protective shield of sorts. Hmmm.

Awesome sauce

Ok, so Blue Tornado Force person is definitely Rey. Hair matches to a T.

Is there a link to the Lego banner?

vaderito wrote:Ok, so Blue Tornado Force person is definitely Rey. Hair matches to a T.

@vaderito

You can post a link to it in the appropriate thread in Maz's Castle (it's not publicly viewable by non-members).

[quote="ISeeAnIsland"]

It's there. I'm also slightly backing off because I recall that Lego Game had Kylo only zap some characters that he killed/injured in the movie, and the zap was tornado-like or whatever, so maybe Blue Force Tornado thingy is just a Lego thing. It's 50/50 that it's in the movie.

[quote="vaderito"]

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

It's there. I'm also slightly backing off because I recall that Lego Game had Kylo only zap some characters that he killed/injured in the movie, and the zap was tornado-like or whatever, so maybe Blue Force Tornado thingy is just a Lego thing. It's 50/50 that it's in the movie.

@vaderito

Thanks--I see it. I'd made my post before I'd checked that thread. It's an interesting banner, no matter what, in that it looks like a weird mix of the rumored D'Qar and Crait battles. (And Luke is nowhere to be seen, of course.)

I have to go back to early spoilers from Reddit. Tons of them are BS but some are a strange mix of real deal (bolded), strong possibilities (green) and BS. I can't decide whether it's a studio plant who gave away some stuff and also deliberately mixed it with crap, or someone who knew a little but then tried to embellish it with some nonsense:

Plot A would progress in this order
Luke tells Rey what happened during the fall of his academy.
Kylo Ren is growing in power. He possesses a skill for manipulating the force that has never been seen. Snoke senses this and aims to replace Kylo with Rey, and plans to use Kylo to do it.
Luke trains Rey in the ways of the Force.
Rey confronts the spiritual test of the darkness within herself.
Kylo murders Snoke, having known all along Snoke was aiming to replace him before he grew powerful enough to overtake him, and declares himself ruler of the First Order. There is a slight rift among the troopers in whether they will follow Kylo or Hux.
Rey leaves against Luke’s wishes to confront Kylo. The B plot of the story is what drives her out.
Kylo Ren and Rey fight again. There is an underlying sense of attraction between the two. Kylo Ren is much, much stronger than he was in their last fight. He beats Rey and reveals he spared her life in the temple purge and left her on Jakku. He again beckons her to join him. This time, the result of that offer is left up in the air.

Plot B progresses in this manner
Captain Phasma has placed a substantial bounty on Finn’s head.
She and Hux are relentlessly searching the Galaxy for the Resistance.
They find the Resistance base and decimate it with an impressive land assault.
Finn and Poe meet a refugee and the three of them spend most of the story evading bounty hunters and the First Order.
Finn falls for the refugee. Head over heels.
On a planet that’s essentially the Las Vegas of the Galaxy, the refugee turns on Finn and Poe and collects the bounty on their heads.
They are captured and tortured on this planet.
It’s here that Rey and Kylo fight.
Finn manages an escape but Poe is captured and sent to what is essentially maximum security for the First Order.
That’s the first treatment.

Other tidbits include the mention that the Galaxy is absolutely war torn right now with no leadership and many systems just fending for themselves.
Del Toro will play a bounty hunter.
Luke refuses to join the fight on either side. This upsets Leia
Kylo Ren will kill an officer for mentioning the scar on his face.

Again, early treatment, but expect it to unfold fairly close.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/3xtld8/i_have_read_a_very_early_storyboard_for_episode/

Now, the guy said "very early story board" so that could develop into something else, as we know from TFA. I think that was the leak from December 2015 even though reddit says "posted a year ago". But that's the one that @Nonesuch referenced a lot.

Another one is this:

esident in Europe, and I'm in the U.S. I'm just sharing as much as I can remember.
Some of the rumours listed below have already been reported/speculated about. It's not a lot at the moment, might become more later.
Some of these are to be considered spoilers, but like I said, they're rumours so it's up to you.
Here it is:
The film does NOT have an official title as of yet.
This film will "feel" more like the prequels in terms of world-building, including several new planets.
Expect to see more strange creatures and droids than in any previous film in the saga.
Kylo Ren is unmasked, unclear if he'll have a new mask at some point. Also, he has a rebuilt lightsaber similiar to the one in Episode VII.
LOTS of concept arts of large-scale battles between The Resistance and The First Order.
General Hux has the same outfit as in Episode VII. Might only have a very small role.
Luke has the same outfit as in Episode VII. Doubtful that he will leave the planet of Ach-To in this film.
Rey's new primary weapon is Luke's old lightsaber.
Yoda has an appearance in the film(on-screen).
Captain Phasma is seen standing amongst a large group of dead soldiers(probably resistance fighters). Comment: it's actually dead Storm troopers.
Snoke is much smaller in stature without the hologram. Comment: he's 7 ft instead of 20 ft.
Heavy rumours suggest that Snoke has an underlying weakness, making him incapable to leave his location.
Kelly Marie Tran's character is seen with Finn in several concept arts.
Laura Dern's character is a high-rank Resistance officer. Heavy rumours suggest that she's a "dislikable" character determined to do what it takes to take down the First Order(all this has been recently reported/speculated about). Comment: I remember that this bit about high ranking officer came at the time MSW believed she was an aristocrat of sorts due to her hair and dress which were not military looking.
Concept arts shows Luke learning Rey some sort of force power never seen before. General feeling is that Luke is VERY powerful.
Pretty much no info on Benicio Del Toro's character at the moment.
Edit: Thanks for the comments so far, again I'll be happy to answer both the positive and negative ones. And just to clarify why it's not so much right now, he didn't want to say "too much". Besides, he's a concept artist, obviously they don't have as much insight as let's say the main cast or the director.

This was from March 21. As you can see, both reports indicate new powers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/4b9mhw/episode_viii_rumours_from_concept_artist/

Now, this one is mostly big bull, but:

Reddit rumor April 2016 https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/4cqm55/episode_viii_spoiler_dump_youve_been_warned/

First off, no I won't tell you who I am, who I know, what I do, or even what country I'm from. Just know that everything that follows is 100% legitimate.
There is little to no time jump from the end of TFA
There will be 7 planets featured
Kylo Ren is not present for most of the film. Phasma has taken over the First Order military under General Hux's command. She is featured much more prominently. Don't worry though, Kylo is reintroduced in the third act. Everyone I've talked said he's "changed" and "way more of a threat"
Poe is gay. He will mention his boyfriend in a brief, almost throwaway line.
Snoke is the same species as Maz and just as tiny. They have some kind of connection.
Luke survives this movie.
Leia survives this movie.
Rey and Kylo Ren have some kind of confrontation in the climax of the film. From what I understand, this section of the script is simply called Rey and Ben and nothing more is stated. No setting, no lines. Multiple people I spoke with believe there is some major twist during this confrontation, and I was told Daisy was shaken up after a read with Adam for this scene. Comment: This was reported April 2016, over a year before Daisy gave an interview where she said that she was, like, "Rian, we need to talk about this" and the podcast where she said Rey would suffer an emotional injury. So while the rest of the report is unsung BS, this part actually has some legitimacy.
Finn will wield a lightsaber again.
Luke has a new lightsaber. Not the one from Jedi. I got two different answers on the color of the blade. One person told me it was silver. One person told me it was white.
Both Kylo and Rey will use the force in "ways we haven't seen"
This movie ends with First Order winning.
Episode IX will be in two parts, released a calendar year apart. Dan Trachtenberg is directing part II

Interesting how many grains of truth might be inthese 'leaks'.
So many firmly believe Luke will be training Rey...yet its also been stated he isn't going to be 'nurturing' her. So...what gives?

motherofpearl1 wrote:Interesting how many grains of truth might be inthese 'leaks'.
So many firmly believe Luke will be training Rey...yet its also been stated he isn't going to be 'nurturing' her. So...what gives?

@motherofpearl1

I think that the first leak and maybe even second are more than just good intuition. They had some real info but likely tried to sound more in the know than they were, so we got some utter nonsense (like that Rey was in Luke's Academy) mixed with the real stuff (Space Las Vegas is not an intuition or a lucky guess, for example). That's the problem with leakers who have some information that they feel isn't juicy enough to attract attention. BothanSpy wasn't like that, for he reported only what he's heard and then notified everyone when his speculation started.

The third leak is really a total dross except that Rey/Ben part that is likely to be real but not because of something the leaker has heard. Just good intuition. Unless he's heard only that but tried to embellish the rest and flopped.

Im

vaderito wrote:I have to go back to early spoilers from Reddit. Tons of them are BS but some are a strange mix of real deal (bolded), strong possibilities (green) and BS. I can't decide whether it's a studio plant who gave away some stuff and

vaderito wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Interesting how many grains of truth might be inthese 'leaks'.
So many firmly believe Luke will be training Rey...yet its also been stated he isn't going to be 'nurturing' her. So...what gives?

@motherofpearl1

I think that the first leak and maybe even second are more than just good intuition. They had some real info but likely tried to sound more in the know than they were, so we got some utter nonsense (like that Rey was in Luke's Academy) mixed with the real stuff (Space Las Vegas is not an intuition or a lucky guess, for example). That's the problem with leakers who have some information that they feel isn't juicy enough to attract attention. BothanSpy wasn't like that, for he reported only what he's heard and then notified everyone when his speculation started.

The third leak is really a total dross except that Rey/Ben part that is likely to be real but not because of something the leaker has heard. Just good intuition. Unless he's heard only that but tried to embellish the rest and flopped.

@vaderito

also deliberately mixed it with crap, or someone who knew a little but then tried to embellish it with some nonsense:

Plot A would progress in this order
Luke tells Rey what happened during the fall of his academy.
Kylo Ren is growing in power. He possesses a skill for manipulating the force that has never been seen. Snoke senses this and aims to replace Kylo with Rey, and plans to use Kylo to do it.
Luke trains Rey in the ways of the Force.
Rey confronts the spiritual test of the darkness within herself.
Kylo murders Snoke, having known all along Snoke was aiming to replace him before he grew powerful enough to overtake him, and declares himself ruler of the First Order. There is a slight rift among the troopers in whether they will follow Kylo or Hux.
Rey leaves against Luke’s wishes to confront Kylo. The B plot of the story is what drives her out.
Kylo Ren and Rey fight again. There is an underlying sense of attraction between the two. Kylo Ren is much, much stronger than he was in their last fight. He beats Rey and reveals he spared her life in the temple purge and left her on Jakku. He again beckons her to join him. This time, the result of that offer is left up in the air.

Plot B progresses in this manner
Captain Phasma has placed a substantial bounty on Finn’s head.
She and Hux are relentlessly searching the Galaxy for the Resistance.
They find the Resistance base and decimate it with an impressive land assault.
Finn and Poe meet a refugee and the three of them spend most of the story evading bounty hunters and the First Order.
Finn falls for the refugee. Head over heels.
On a planet that’s essentially the Las Vegas of the Galaxy, the refugee turns on Finn and Poe and collects the bounty on their heads.
They are captured and tortured on this planet.
It’s here that Rey and Kylo fight.
Finn manages an escape but Poe is captured and sent to what is essentially maximum security for the First Order.
That’s the first treatment.

Other tidbits include the mention that the Galaxy is absolutely war torn right now with no leadership and many systems just fending for themselves.
Del Toro will play a bounty hunter.
Luke refuses to join the fight on either side. This upsets Leia
Kylo Ren will kill an officer for mentioning the scar on his face.

Again, early treatment, but expect it to unfold fairly close.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/3xtld8/i_have_read_a_very_early_storyboard_for_episode/

Now, the guy said "very early story board" so that could develop into something else, as we know from TFA. I think that was the leak from December 2015 even though reddit says "posted a year ago". But that's the one that @Nonesuch referenced a lot.

Another one is this:

esident in Europe, and I'm in the U.S. I'm just sharing as much as I can remember.
Some of the rumours listed below have already been reported/speculated about. It's not a lot at the moment, might become more later.
Some of these are to be considered spoilers, but like I said, they're rumours so it's up to you.
Here it is:
The film does NOT have an official title as of yet.
This film will "feel" more like the prequels in terms of world-building, including several new planets.
Expect to see more strange creatures and droids than in any previous film in the saga.
Kylo Ren is unmasked, unclear if he'll have a new mask at some point. Also, he has a rebuilt lightsaber similiar to the one in Episode VII.
LOTS of concept arts of large-scale battles between The Resistance and The First Order.
General Hux has the same outfit as in Episode VII. Might only have a very small role.
Luke has the same outfit as in Episode VII. Doubtful that he will leave the planet of Ach-To in this film.
Rey's new primary weapon is Luke's old lightsaber.
Yoda has an appearance in the film(on-screen).
Captain Phasma is seen standing amongst a large group of dead soldiers(probably resistance fighters). Comment: it's actually dead Storm troopers.
Snoke is much smaller in stature without the hologram. Comment: he's 7 ft instead of 20 ft.
Heavy rumours suggest that Snoke has an underlying weakness, making him incapable to leave his location.
Kelly Marie Tran's character is seen with Finn in several concept arts.
Laura Dern's character is a high-rank Resistance officer. Heavy rumours suggest that she's a "dislikable" character determined to do what it takes to take down the First Order(all this has been recently reported/speculated about). Comment: I remember that this bit about high ranking officer came at the time MSW believed she was an aristocrat of sorts due to her hair and dress which were not military looking.
Concept arts shows Luke learning Rey some sort of force power never seen before. General feeling is that Luke is VERY powerful.
Pretty much no info on Benicio Del Toro's character at the moment.
Edit: Thanks for the comments so far, again I'll be happy to answer both the positive and negative ones. And just to clarify why it's not so much right now, he didn't want to say "too much". Besides, he's a concept artist, obviously they don't have as much insight as let's say the main cast or the director.

This was from March 21. As you can see, both reports indicate new powers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/4b9mhw/episode_viii_rumours_from_concept_artist/

Now, this one is mostly big bull, but:

Reddit rumor April 2016 https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/4cqm55/episode_viii_spoiler_dump_youve_been_warned/

First off, no I won't tell you who I am, who I know, what I do, or even what country I'm from. Just know that everything that follows is 100% legitimate.
There is little to no time jump from the end of TFA
There will be 7 planets featured
Kylo Ren is not present for most of the film. Phasma has taken over the First Order military under General Hux's command. She is featured much more prominently. Don't worry though, Kylo is reintroduced in the third act. Everyone I've talked said he's "changed" and "way more of a threat"
Poe is gay. He will mention his boyfriend in a brief, almost throwaway line.
Snoke is the same species as Maz and just as tiny. They have some kind of connection.
Luke survives this movie.
Leia survives this movie.
Rey and Kylo Ren have some kind of confrontation in the climax of the film. From what I understand, this section of the script is simply called Rey and Ben and nothing more is stated. No setting, no lines. Multiple people I spoke with believe there is some major twist during this confrontation, and I was told Daisy was shaken up after a read with Adam for this scene. Comment: This was reported April 2016, over a year before Daisy gave an interview where she said that she was, like, "Rian, we need to talk about this" and the podcast where she said Rey would suffer an emotional injury. So while the rest of the report is unsung BS, this part actually has some legitimacy.
Finn will wield a lightsaber again.
Luke has a new lightsaber. Not the one from Jedi. I got two different answers on the color of the blade. One person told me it was silver. One person told me it was white.
Both Kylo and Rey will use the force in "ways we haven't seen"
This movie ends with First Order winning.
Episode IX will be in two parts, released a calendar year apart. Dan Trachtenberg is directing part II

@vaderito

vaderito wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Interesting how many grains of truth might be inthese 'leaks'.
So many firmly believe Luke will be training Rey...yet its also been stated he isn't going to be 'nurturing' her. So...what gives?

@motherofpearl1

I think that the first leak and maybe even second are more than just good intuition. They had some real info but likely tried to sound more in the know than they were, so we got some utter nonsense (like that Rey was in Luke's Academy) mixed with the real stuff (Space Las Vegas is not an intuition or a lucky guess, for example). That's the problem with leakers who have some information that they feel isn't juicy enough to attract attention. BothanSpy wasn't like that, for he reported only what he's heard and then notified everyone when his speculation started.

The third leak is really a total dross except that Rey/Ben part that is likely to be real but not because of something the leaker has heard. Just good intuition. Unless he's heard only that but tried to embellish the rest and flopped.

@vaderito

Frankly I'm glad the third leak is debunked; the idea of Kylo having so little presence in the film is off putting.

This was posted on the other thread but maybe it should be posted here too? But this Sunday Adam will be on the Today show. Is a new interview.
Here´s a snippet.

https://www.today.com/video/-last-jedi-events-will-be-unexpected-for-kylo-ren-adam-driver-promises-1026605635509

He says he hopes fans will be happy with what happens to Kylo and that it might be unexpected...

@tukicarreno Thanks for the link. Starts from 0:28. transcript:

Host: Will fans be happy with what happens to Kylo?

AD: God I hope...I mean I hope...I hope they will...I think it will be I mean hopefully unexpected.


haven't seen this screen cap before, I've seen slightly different frames but this one is the most beautiful I think, so I'm posting.

vaderito wrote:@tukicarreno Thanks for the link. Starts from 0:28. transcript:

Host: Will fans be happy with what happens to Kylo?

AD: God I hope...I mean I hope...I hope they will...I think it will be I mean hopefully unexpected.


haven't seen this screen cap before, I've seen slightly different frames but this one is the most beautiful I think, so I'm posting.

@vaderito

REYLO KISS!!!!  

EDIT: That frame right there is my favorite one in the sequence of choker shots.  I'm tempted to frame it...

@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

vaderito wrote:@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

@vaderito

You would think! Fingers crossed, the way he said it sounds very encouraging IMO. I cannot wait..

vaderito wrote:@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

@vaderito

TBH, after hearing the Rey-goes-with-Snoke/SSD-crash rumor, I've kind of had this headcanon that Rey goes with Snoke as a self-sacrifice to save Kylo and/or the rest of her friends, and right before she's about to leave with Snoke, she grabs Kylo and pulls him in for a kiss (ala ESB).

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

vaderito wrote:@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

@vaderito

TBH, after hearing the Rey-goes-with-Snoke/SSD-crash rumor, I've kind of had this headcanon that Rey goes with Snoke as a self-sacrifice to save Kylo and/or the rest of her friends, and right before she's about to leave with Snoke, she grabs Kylo and pulls him in for a kiss (ala ESB).

@ISeeAnIsland

That's a good headcanon. I don't want to get attached to it, though. I'll never live the waterfall down.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

vaderito wrote:@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

@vaderito

TBH, after hearing the Rey-goes-with-Snoke/SSD-crash rumor, I've kind of had this headcanon that Rey goes with Snoke as a self-sacrifice to save Kylo and/or the rest of her friends, and right before she's about to leave with Snoke, she grabs Kylo and pulls him in for a kiss (ala ESB).

@ISeeAnIsland

OMG. The thought of that just stopped my heart for a second. Can you imagine the gut wrenching response from Kylo when he realizes what she's doing? Adam would rip people's hearts out with a moment like that!

vaderito wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

vaderito wrote:@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

@vaderito

TBH, after hearing the Rey-goes-with-Snoke/SSD-crash rumor, I've kind of had this headcanon that Rey goes with Snoke as a self-sacrifice to save Kylo and/or the rest of her friends, and right before she's about to leave with Snoke, she grabs Kylo and pulls him in for a kiss (ala ESB).

@ISeeAnIsland

That's a good headcanon. I don't want to get attached to it, though. I'll never live the waterfall down.

@vaderito

Nah, the only one that I'm truly attached to is Rey and Kylo flying the MF together at some point in the ST.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

vaderito wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

vaderito wrote:@IoJovi In front of Snoke!

But, yeah, unexpected would be something good, no? Cause after killing Han people would expect Eviler Kylo?

@vaderito

TBH, after hearing the Rey-goes-with-Snoke/SSD-crash rumor, I've kind of had this headcanon that Rey goes with Snoke as a self-sacrifice to save Kylo and/or the rest of her friends, and right before she's about to leave with Snoke, she grabs Kylo and pulls him in for a kiss (ala ESB).

@ISeeAnIsland

That's a good headcanon. I don't want to get attached to it, though. I'll never live the waterfall down.

@vaderito

Nah, the only one that I'm truly attached to is Rey and Kylo flying the MF together at some point in the ST.

@ISeeAnIsland

@Vaderito headcanons come and go.  The brilliant thing about headcanons that get debunked is they can be replaced with new delicious ones.  That's the beauty of story telling.

Right now I'm on board with @ISeeAnIsland with a flexible time line and  Rey falling in Kylo's place.  It will probably change between now and December, but that's where I'm at this moment...

Honestly, all I want is one moment of her making fun of his hair, like how he managed to keep it so voluminous underneath that helmet. Otherwise if the mirroring pattern with characters and actions continues, best guess is that she'll have a repeat of getting split apart from her family. Where she's actually old enough and powerful enough to not be left behind, but intervene to save somebody she cares deeply about. Whether or not it's him or her dad (jk!), remains to be seen. But I'd bet good money that it'll be for him, like Finn's we came back for you moment. In terms of timeline stuff - maybe! I mean, the whole point in Looper is the "if we sit here making diagrams with straws" scene is that go too deep into the weeds and it becomes less about the characters/story and more about the logistics. But the main point with the two different versions of Joe was the different directions a person could go in their life, who that impacts, and the choices they make. And to not think *too hard* about it, because there are some scenarios in that movie where they show the impact of different timelines simultaneously, even when it would appear that two things can't co-exist. And this time around, it so can't be Mystery Box.

Also, fans may be surprised and it sounds promising??? But for nearly 2 years, 'true' fans have insisted that he's going to get eeeevilller and eeevilller. Or that if he gets redeemed, well that's totes okay I guess, but it'll have nothing to do with Rey. The only thing between them will be a painfully one-sided unrequited love, she'll pity him, and he'll end up sacrificing himself to kill Snoke as punishment for not deserving having such a cool dad Han Solo. Yeah, that's it! Fans will be pleasantly surprised with this newer, edgier version of Star Wars where he ends up dying after spiralling through self-hate and destruction because redemption is "sooooo boring." And it'll be like Rogue One, they weren't afraid to go there, so that makes it a better Star Wars movie than TFA. Really, I can't wait to have all of those scenarios happen so that those other people who know so much better about Star Wars can be validated in their on spot takes about parables for children and "it's what George Lucas wanted." (eyeroll)

snufkin wrote:Honestly, all I want is one moment of her making fun of his hair, like how he managed to keep it so voluminous underneath that helmet. Otherwise if the mirroring pattern with characters and actions continues, best guess is that she'll have a repeat of getting split apart from her family. Where she's actually old enough and powerful enough to not be left behind, but intervene to save somebody she cares deeply about. Whether or not it's him or her dad (jk!), remains to be seen. But I'd bet good money that it'll be for him, like Finn's we came back for you moment. In terms of timeline stuff - maybe! I mean, the whole point in Looper is the "if we sit here making diagrams with straws" scene is that go too deep into the weeds and it becomes less about the characters/story and more about the logistics. But the main point with the two different versions of Joe was the different directions a person could go in their life, who that impacts, and the choices they make. And to not think *too hard* about it, because there are some scenarios in that movie where they show the impact of different timelines simultaneously, even when it would appear that two things can't co-exist. And this time around, it so can't be Mystery Box.  

Also, fans may be surprised and it sounds promising??? But for nearly 2 years, 'true' fans have insisted that he's going to get eeeevilller and eeevilller. Or that if he gets redeemed, well that's totes okay I guess, but it'll have nothing to do with Rey. The only thing between them will be a painfully one-sided unrequited love, she'll pity him, and he'll end up sacrificing himself to kill Snoke as punishment for not deserving having such a cool dad Han Solo. Yeah, that's it! Fans will be pleasantly surprised with this newer, edgier version of Star Wars where he ends up dying after spiralling through self-hate and destruction because redemption is "sooooo boring." And it'll be like Rogue One, they weren't afraid to go there, so that makes it a better Star Wars movie than TFA. Really, I can't wait to have all of those scenarios happen so that those other people who know so much better about Star Wars can be validated in their on spot takes about parables for children and "it's what George Lucas wanted." (eyeroll)

@snufkin

I love that there are constant discussions and attempts to analyse the timeline to understand what George have wanted, even though that can only be told by himself.

@SkyStar - no kidding! And the amount of scrutiny devout fans give to what his intentions were or the whole stupid "is this canon?" debate is like they're poring over the Scriptures or law books trying to divine the intentions of the original writers.

@IoJovi There's nothing beautiful about the crash and burn of the Waterfall Headcanon. It had it all - wet, naked Kylo, peeping Rey, UST, Porgs stealing Kylo's clothes, dressing up like him (aka Sleeping Beauty scene). Why Rian? Why?