TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@reylo1992
interesting, more and more makes sense timeline )
1 thing, Billlie Lourd is resistance member so she would be there before and after Crait battle, tough Poe's speech is like after, could be after loosing battle, maybe even after Leia's death (if it happens) and even resistance loose they would be want some positive/hopeful speech near the end.

about crushing supremacy, are we sure? that ship is 60 km length, it would be hard to destroy it, maybe only damage.
I'm trying now to understand which space battles are from Crait sky, most of footage is D'qar, in most of shoots you can see Poe's x wing, or Kylos attempt to kill Leia (or whatever order he has).

so one more time back to Poe and Crait battle, I think he was with that x wing on ground battle, then it crushes, but he will return with it anyway, in first shot it has glass, in last one no, so in last one he is in that base I think, where was Leia and white fox, and maybe after that will start evacuation

@Anakin Skywalker

Indeed, you're right.We're not sure about the crash of Supremacy. Still, I would say yes, first because of the callback to ROTS. And second because regarding the timeline, makes more sense IMO that Finn first infiltrate Supremacy, only then battle on Crait. I don't see any reason why Finn would first battle on Crait and then infiltrate Supremacy with DJ and Rose. And infiltating Supremacy due to piloting skills, I don't think so either

And this is how he looks during the first stage of the Crait battle:

Looks like he has fun. Something tells me that he feels pretty confident after having beaten Phasma. Maybe the sign that the Resistance feels (over) confident after the crash/damage on Supremacy

As for Leia, I don't think she'll die in TLJ. Mark confirmed that she was supposed to have a more important role in Episode 9, that it was supposed to be her movie after TFA was Harrison's and TLJ Mark's. So I think it is safe to assume that Leia won't die, and I don't even think that she'll be wounded. However, I can perfectly imagine that she'll feel down because from what I see, it doesn'tseem like Rey goes to the DS. So it's either Luke or Kylo who will go down.

@Anakin Skywalker
@DarthRen

Related to our discussion above, @vaderito had tried to collect evidences in theTLJ Trailer Thread that there wassomething else after Crait, based on a shot of injured Finn in TV Spot 6 involving Poe.

Now, here a recollection of the pictures that we have gathered all together:

Evacuation in hurry of Crait after defeat  



Reunion of defeated heroes  

Finn: I was raised to fight. But for the first time, I had something to fight for!



Poe: We are the sparks that will light the fire that will burn the FO down



So obviously, both Finn and Poe talk indoors. Difficult to see if the background is the same. Still, we know that it happens by the very end of the movie given Finn's injuries. Like I pointed out, Billie Lourd is in the background of the shot with Poe. And she appears in the BTS with John and Daisy who both are in the physical state of the end of the movie. At least, Daisy has her bruise on the forehead.


Now, let's pay attention to the dialogue:

Finn: I was raised to fight?. But for the first time, I had something to fight for

Poe: We are the sparks that will lit the fire that will burn the FO down


IMO, these two dialogue happen in the same sequence after the evacuation. I don't think that Poe and Finn would have that kind of speech before the Crait battle or in the course of the action. It sounds to me very much like a reunion of defeated heroes who draw a general and personal bilan of the defeat:

Poe says that they are "the sparks", which suggests to me that there isn't much left of the Resistance by the end of the movie. So I think that they will get a big defeat that will be much more consequential  than the defeat of the Rebel Alliance on Hoth. That kind of discourse confirms to me that Poe will rise as a leader of the Resistance in Episode 9, becoming the leader Leia wantedhim to be and not simply the best resistant pilot. However, no way that Leia is dead at the end of the movie since it was confirmed that Carrie Fisher was supposed to have a more important role inEpisode 9

From his side, Finn seems to draw a personal bilan and what he says is very interesting. He doesn't say that for the first time he has something to fight for but that for the first time he had something to fight for I don't know for you guys but for me it suggests to me that Finn has kinda lose something in the course of the battle, something that for the first time gave him a reason to fight for. Either he is bitter about something or on the very contrary he is trying to motivate troops again like Poe.

Thoughts

reylo1992 wrote:@Anakin Skywalker
@DarthRen

Related to our discussion above, @vaderito had tried to collect evidences in theTLJ Trailer Thread that there wassomething else after Crait, based on a shot of injured Finn in TV Spot 6 involving Poe.

Now, here a recollection of the pictures that we have gathered all together:

Evacuation in hurry of Crait after defeat  



Reunion of defeated heroes  

Finn: I was raised to fight. But for the first time, I had something to fight for!



Poe: We are the sparks that will light the fire that will burn the FO down



So obviously, both Finn and Poe talk indoors. Difficult to see if the background is the same. Still, we know that it happens by the very end of the movie given Finn's injuries. Like I pointed out, Billie Lourd is in the background of the shot with Poe. And she appears in the BTS with John and Daisy who both are in the physical state of the end of the movie. At least, Daisy has her bruise on the forehead.


Now, let's pay attention to the dialogue:

Finn: I was raised to fight?. But for the first time, I had something to fight for

Poe: We are the sparks that will lit the fire that will burn the FO down


IMO, these two dialogue happen in the same sequence after the evacuation. I don't think that Poe and Finn would have that kind of speech before the Crait battle or in the course of the action. It sounds to me very much like a reunion of defeated heroes who draw a general and personal bilan of the defeat:

Poe says that they are "the sparks", which suggests to me that there isn't much left of the Resistance by the end of the movie. So I think that they will get a big defeat that will be much more consequential  than the defeat of the Rebel Alliance on Hoth. That kind of discourse confirms to me that Poe will rise as a leader of the Resistance in Episode 9, becoming the leader Leia wantedhim to be and not simply the best resistant pilot. However, no way that Leia is dead at the end of the movie since it was confirmed that Carrie Fisher was supposed to have a more important role inEpisode 9

From his side, Finn seems to draw a personal bilan and what he says is very interesting. He doesn't say that for the first time he has something to fight for but that for the first time he had something to fight for I don't know for you guys but for me it suggests to me that Finn has kinda lose something in the course of the battle, something that for the first time gave him a reason to fight for. Either he is bitter about something or on the very contrary he is trying to motivate troops again like Poe.

Thoughts

@reylo1992

Some good thoughts. I think that leak was something like Kylo ends up on some unknown forest planet and Rey with Poe, Finn and rest on some cruiser probably evacuating, outfits fits into this. Just don't know how Kylo on Crait fits into it in general, not just in regards to this leak.

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@Anakin Skywalker
@DarthRen

Related to our discussion above, @vaderito had tried to collect evidences in theTLJ Trailer Thread that there wassomething else after Crait, based on a shot of injured Finn in TV Spot 6 involving Poe.

Now, here a recollection of the pictures that we have gathered all together:

Evacuation in hurry of Crait after defeat  



Reunion of defeated heroes  

Finn: I was raised to fight. But for the first time, I had something to fight for!



Poe: We are the sparks that will light the fire that will burn the FO down



So obviously, both Finn and Poe talk indoors. Difficult to see if the background is the same. Still, we know that it happens by the very end of the movie given Finn's injuries. Like I pointed out, Billie Lourd is in the background of the shot with Poe. And she appears in the BTS with John and Daisy who both are in the physical state of the end of the movie. At least, Daisy has her bruise on the forehead.


Now, let's pay attention to the dialogue:

Finn: I was raised to fight?. But for the first time, I had something to fight for

Poe: We are the sparks that will lit the fire that will burn the FO down


IMO, these two dialogue happen in the same sequence after the evacuation. I don't think that Poe and Finn would have that kind of speech before the Crait battle or in the course of the action. It sounds to me very much like a reunion of defeated heroes who draw a general and personal bilan of the defeat:

Poe says that they are "the sparks", which suggests to me that there isn't much left of the Resistance by the end of the movie. So I think that they will get a big defeat that will be much more consequential  than the defeat of the Rebel Alliance on Hoth. That kind of discourse confirms to me that Poe will rise as a leader of the Resistance in Episode 9, becoming the leader Leia wantedhim to be and not simply the best resistant pilot. However, no way that Leia is dead at the end of the movie since it was confirmed that Carrie Fisher was supposed to have a more important role inEpisode 9

From his side, Finn seems to draw a personal bilan and what he says is very interesting. He doesn't say that for the first time he has something to fight for but that for the first time he had something to fight for I don't know for you guys but for me it suggests to me that Finn has kinda lose something in the course of the battle, something that for the first time gave him a reason to fight for. Either he is bitter about something or on the very contrary he is trying to motivate troops again like Poe.

Thoughts

@reylo1992

Some good thoughts. I think that leak was something like Kylo ends up on some unknown forest planet and Rey with Poe, Finn and rest on some cruiser probably evacuating, outfits fits into this. Just don't know how Kylo on Crait fits into it in general, not just in regards to this leak.

@DarthRen

Don't you have some link to the leak by any chance?

That Rey would end up reunited with the Resistance by the end wouldn't surprise me at all since I've said goodbye to "Rey turns to the DS" theory a long time ago. And IF that analysis is correct, it doesn't seem either like she leaves everything behind to runaway together with Kylo by the end of the movie. So indeed, how does Kylo fit in all of this?

Well, you know my headcanons As far as we know from the timeline, I see nothing that confirms it but nothing that debunks it either. For me, his ultimate fate depends very much on the meaning behind the mysterious shot of him wearing his cape and leading the FO firetroops on Crait.

And maybe I am wrong about this but it doesn't seem impossible to me that this shot...

....may be related with this one :

reylo1992 wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@Anakin Skywalker
@DarthRen

Related to our discussion above, @vaderito had tried to collect evidences in theTLJ Trailer Thread that there wassomething else after Crait, based on a shot of injured Finn in TV Spot 6 involving Poe.

Now, here a recollection of the pictures that we have gathered all together:

Evacuation in hurry of Crait after defeat  



Reunion of defeated heroes  

Finn: I was raised to fight. But for the first time, I had something to fight for!



Poe: We are the sparks that will light the fire that will burn the FO down



So obviously, both Finn and Poe talk indoors. Difficult to see if the background is the same. Still, we know that it happens by the very end of the movie given Finn's injuries. Like I pointed out, Billie Lourd is in the background of the shot with Poe. And she appears in the BTS with John and Daisy who both are in the physical state of the end of the movie. At least, Daisy has her bruise on the forehead.


Now, let's pay attention to the dialogue:

Finn: I was raised to fight?. But for the first time, I had something to fight for

Poe: We are the sparks that will lit the fire that will burn the FO down


IMO, these two dialogue happen in the same sequence after the evacuation. I don't think that Poe and Finn would have that kind of speech before the Crait battle or in the course of the action. It sounds to me very much like a reunion of defeated heroes who draw a general and personal bilan of the defeat:

Poe says that they are "the sparks", which suggests to me that there isn't much left of the Resistance by the end of the movie. So I think that they will get a big defeat that will be much more consequential  than the defeat of the Rebel Alliance on Hoth. That kind of discourse confirms to me that Poe will rise as a leader of the Resistance in Episode 9, becoming the leader Leia wantedhim to be and not simply the best resistant pilot. However, no way that Leia is dead at the end of the movie since it was confirmed that Carrie Fisher was supposed to have a more important role inEpisode 9

From his side, Finn seems to draw a personal bilan and what he says is very interesting. He doesn't say that for the first time he has something to fight for but that for the first time he had something to fight for I don't know for you guys but for me it suggests to me that Finn has kinda lose something in the course of the battle, something that for the first time gave him a reason to fight for. Either he is bitter about something or on the very contrary he is trying to motivate troops again like Poe.

Thoughts

@reylo1992

Some good thoughts. I think that leak was something like Kylo ends up on some unknown forest planet and Rey with Poe, Finn and rest on some cruiser probably evacuating, outfits fits into this. Just don't know how Kylo on Crait fits into it in general, not just in regards to this leak.

@DarthRen

Don't you have some link to the leak by any chance?

That Rey would end up reunited with the Resistance by the end wouldn't surprise me at all since I've said goodbye to "Rey turns to the DS" theory a long time ago. And IF that analysis is correct, it doesn't seem either like she leaves everything behind to runaway together with Kylo by the end of the movie. So indeed, how does Kylo fit in all of this?

Well, you know my headcanons As far as we know from the timeline, I see nothing that confirms it but nothing that debunks it either. For me, his ultimate fate depends very much on the meaning behind the mysterious shot of him wearing his cape and leading the FO firetroops on Crait.

And maybe I am wrong about this but it doesn't seem impossible to me that this shot...

....may be related with this one :

@reylo1992

I think I saw it on subreddit about Star Wars or try search among users u/Porgmaster or manipulator something like that. Like the leak stated Kylo and Rey are becoming kindred spirits but not a romance, allies. He spills her heart during the hand-reaching scene like that he has nowhere to go and this is his life now. Rey can relate to it, and she wants to take his hand, but doesn't. I think it was that with Poe aiming at Kylo, Leia saving Kylo and Kylo turning or questioning Snoke and his loyalty. I don't trust it but it brought up few of mine ideas.

Guys, those are NOT Fire/Flame Troops. Those are SNOW Troops. Big difference. Experts pointed out they are definitely 100% SNOW troops:



These are Flame troops:

vaderito wrote:Guys, those are NOT Fire/Flame Troops. Those are SNOW Troops. Big difference. Experts pointed out they are definitely 100% SNOW troops:



These are Flame troops:

@vaderito

You're right. The same Stormtroopers from the deleted scene of Kylo on MF. Not like they are his personal Stormtroopers but interesting.

vaderito wrote:Guys, those are NOT Fire/Flame Troops. Those are SNOW Troops. Big difference. Experts pointed out they are definitely 100% SNOW troops:



These are Flame troops:

@vaderito

Allright. Seemed to me that they looked like the FO fire troops from TFA like someone had pointed a few weeks ago.

But if Crait is not a cold planet - why go there with Snowtroops?

@Vaderito
@reylo1992
@DarthRen

So in Kylos march there are snow troopers? wow now that makes some difference, why they need snow troopers on Crait in cave?

do you remember any other shots of Finn with bruise? like in that shot "I had something to fight for"?

and is it me or Poe and Finn are using same X-wing on Crait ground battle? or they are just similar?

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@Vaderito
@reylo1992
@DarthRen

So in Kylos march there are snow troopers? wow now that makes some difference, why they need snow troopers on Crait in cave?

do you remember any other shots of Finn with bruise? like in that shot "I had something to fight for"?

and is it me or Poe and Finn are using same X-wing on Crait ground battle? or they are just similar?

@Anakin Skywalker

John has that bruise while dancing with Daisy and don't know for sure in one of BTS shots with Billie and Daisy laughing.

Finn is using a speeder, not X-Wing since he's no pilot and speeder is easier to control for him as non-pilot.

Night Huntress wrote:But if Crait is not a cold planet - why go there with Snowtroops?

@Night Huntress

Cause walking on lava sand, salt and snow is pretty much the same? They can't create Special Lava Sand/Salt Troops.

@Anakin Skywalker



Looks like he's outside so my guess is that his speeder crashes and that's how he gets the bruise. he then makes the speech inside of the base.

thanks for answers

I would give anything (almost) to see 1 frame of Rey in front of outreaching Kylo's hand )))

DarthRen wrote:

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@Vaderito
@reylo1992
@DarthRen

So in Kylos march there are snow troopers? wow now that makes some difference, why they need snow troopers on Crait in cave?

do you remember any other shots of Finn with bruise? like in that shot "I had something to fight for"?

and is it me or Poe and Finn are using same X-wing on Crait ground battle? or they are just similar?

@Anakin Skywalker

John has that bruise while dancing with Daisy and don't know for sure in one of BTS shots with Billie and Daisy laughing.

Finn is using a speeder, not X-Wing since he's no pilot and speede is easier to control for him as non pilot.

@DarthRen

The fact that they're snowtrooper makes a big difference indeed. Thanks to @vaderito for pointing it out.

I think you're right Darth, he is using a speeder, like he already did in that TFA deleted scene:

I was surprised by the idea that Finn would pilot a X-Wing

Now,about the timeline, there is something interesting to note from the pictures that @AnakinSkywalker gathered. Here a recollection:

Hell and sunny sky:

Round 1?

Darker blue and cloudy sky:

Round 2?

Finn's evolution

From this...

Finn: Wow!


To this:

Finn:For the first time, I had something to fight for...

It is a speeder/skimmer. the same one that Poe and Rose are using.

and do we know about this scene?
is it really Paige?
and is this how she dies?

@Vaderito
@reylo1992
@DarthRen

1 more question guys, I just want to finish that timeline video
we know about 3 "kind of" speeches in resistance, on Crait, these:

so, do you think they are before of after battle?
I think Poe/Finn are after, at list finn is after.

and if you remember anything about that pic in my previous post

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@Vaderito
@reylo1992
@DarthRen

1 more question guys, I just want to finish that timeline video
we know about 3 "kind of" speeches in resistance, on Crait, these:

so, do you think they are before of after battle?
I think Poe/Finn are after, at list finn is after.

and if you remember anything about that pic in my previous post

@Anakin Skywalker

1) Regarding the speeches

For Holdo, I have honestly no idea. Is it sure it is on Crait?

I would say both Poe & Finn's speech after the battle although I am of course not 100%  sure. Hard to draw conclusionbut the background behind Poe is definitely not grey/dark

2) Regarding Paige Tico


Yes, I definitely think that it is Paige and that she is dying here. It seems like she is falling in the middle of bombs, right? Now, I find that shot pretty intriguing. Is it confirmed that she is supposed to die during the D'Qar battle? There are several things that raise question regarding this shot. D'Qar battle is the evacuation: the Resistance must leave the plane in a hurry because they're under attack . As a pilot, Paige should logically fly in her X-Wing. So  how is it that she finds herself out of her X-Wing and falling in the middle of bombs? I suppose that they wouldn't make her die for some random reason. I guess that her death would bring something, in other words, that it would be some sacrificial death. And somehow, that doesn't suit so well with D'Qar to me. I mean, why having Paige sacrifice herself to make a ship explode in order to allow the Resistance to leave?  We also know that Supremacy is supposed to explode at some point: we may suppose that Finn, Rose and D.J. infiltrate either to steal information and/or to make the ship explode. I suppose that Rose's skills as a mechanic have some importance in regard to the mission. However, we know that Finn at least will be discovered: what about Rose ? Could it be that actually Paige ends up on Supremacy and sacrifices herself to save her sister? One thing is sure: you would need a lot of bomb/or a big technical flaw  to make explode that ship and take it down.

Anakin Skywalker wrote:and do we know about this scene?
is it really Paige?
and is this how she dies?

@Anakin Skywalker

Could someone remind me why there's a consensus that Paige dies? Is it just that there is very little known about the character?  (I am in denial and would like her to survive.)

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@Vaderito
@reylo1992
@DarthRen

1 more question guys, I just want to finish that timeline video
we know about 3 "kind of" speeches in resistance, on Crait, these:

so, do you think they are before of after battle?
I think Poe/Finn are after, at list finn is after.

and if you remember anything about that pic in my previous post

@Anakin Skywalker

I'd say Poe is during the fight and he seems ready to strike, as opposed to defated and yet defiant injured Finn. One during and one after the fight would be adequate. If that shot of Poe in the ships with his black jacket is from Crait, then he looks surprised. Maybe FO winning the battle?

Holdo is meeting Leia or maybe it is truly on Crait, hard to tell.

I think people are basing Paige's death on Rose looking sad in a shot we see of her, and the emphasis that Rose isn't a particularly happy person and absolutely despises the First Order. Plus it would give her a ton of motivation to dive as deep into the fray with Finn as she does considering she's just a mechanic, and a reason Finn might be more game to team up with her in particular due to her determination.

ZioRen wrote:I think people are basing Paige's death on Rose looking sad in a shot we see of her, and the emphasis that Rose isn't a particularly happy person and absolutely despises the First Order. Plus it would give her a ton of motivation to dive as deep into the fray with Finn as she does considering she's just a mechanic, and a reason Finn might be more game to team up with her in particular due to her determination.

@ZioRen

Ah, thanks. I had been musing that they might be going undercover to rescue her, but that has probably been done too many times.

@reylo1992
@DarthRen
why I think Holdo is on Crait - one shot that we have with her and Leia, Leia has Crait outfit, with tall collar.

@ZioRen
@LadyHa
I'm not sure about Paige too, I mean I don't know what proof we have and why everyone think she will die and die on D'qar.
yes, there is Rose's crying scene, but I don't know

so more I dive, there are more questions.
I thought these shots of Finn was after his awaken, before canto bight, because after CB there is Supremacy, then Crait and no time left for other outfit, but then I saw his hairstyle, it is different, from bacta tank until the end of Crait battle he hasn't that lines on hair, so where these scenes fit? is there so many time after Crait?



and do you think after canto bight he is with resistance or straight to the Supremacy?
I mean is this before or after canto bight?


and this is D'qar, so if this shot isn't just bhs, where he is just there (I don't know for what reason), it means he is awake already on D'qar

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@reylo1992
@DarthRen
why I think Holdo is on Crait - one shot that we have with her and Leia, Leia has Crait outfit, with tall collar.

@ZioRen
@LadyHa
I'm not sure about Paige too, I mean I don't know what proof we have and why everyone think she will die and die on D'qar.
yes, there is Rose's crying scene, but I don't know

so more I dive, there are more questions.
I thought these shots of Finn was after his awaken, before canto bight, because after CB there is Supremacy, then Crait and no time left for other outfit, but then I saw his hairstyle, it is different, from bacta tank until the end of Crait battle he hasn't that lines on hair, so where these scenes fit? is there so many time after Crait?



and do you think after canto bight he is with resistance or straight to the Supremacy?
I mean is this before or after canto bight?


and this is D'qar, so if this shot isn't just bhs, where he is just there (I don't know for what reason), it means he is awake already on D'qar

@Anakin Skywalker

Finn is the character who is the easiest to track regarding the timeline. However, these Bhs raise a real question.

His hair never was like that in TFAThe hair was pretty long, right?

So logically, it should be as long when he awakes:



If we are right about the timeline, there is no time-jump for what follow:

And obviously, his hair is also long during the Canto Bight arc:


And this is also the case on Supremacy :


And also on Crait:


So regarding the hair and the costume, where does these Bhs shots fit in the timeline?
1) Either it is somewhen between D'Qar battle and Canto Bight mission since we are in the dark regarding his agenda in between. However, it would be strange to have Finn awakening with his long hair, cutting his hair and then having long hair again after time-jump, right?
2) It is  at the very end of the movie because it would make more sense to have Finn cuttin his hair by the end rather than in the middle of the movie. I thought it was a pilot outfit at a first sight but now that we know how Rose's costume look like, maybe Finn end up working with Rose by the end of the movie. I think that these two cool get romantically involved after the battle. His costume is actually pretty close of Rose's regarding the color. Maybe that says something; maybe not.

I rather go for the second option because change of costume and change of hair can indicate character development or change of life. And I guess that Rian won't end the movie without telling the audience where everyone ends after the battle of Crait. Showing where and how Finn is by the end of TLJ could be one of the scenes included in the ending sequence.

Anakin Skywalker wrote:@reylo1992
@DarthRen
why I think Holdo is on Crait - one shot that we have with her and Leia, Leia has Crait outfit, with tall collar.

@ZioRen
@LadyHa
I'm not sure about Paige too, I mean I don't know what proof we have and why everyone think she will die and die on D'qar.
yes, there is Rose's crying scene, but I don't know

so more I dive, there are more questions.
I thought these shots of Finn was after his awaken, before canto bight, because after CB there is Supremacy, then Crait and no time left for other outfit, but then I saw his hairstyle, it is different, from bacta tank until the end of Crait battle he hasn't that lines on hair, so where these scenes fit? is there so many time after Crait?



and do you think after canto bight he is with resistance or straight to the Supremacy?
I mean is this before or after canto bight?


and this is D'qar, so if this shot isn't just bhs, where he is just there (I don't know for what reason), it means he is awake already on D'qar

I think this is after Crait and we have similar uniform on Rose in terms of colors. Could this be his bomber outfit? Finn is supposed to be a bomber at some point.