Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

by reylo1992 Fri 17 Nov 2017, 2:31 am

From a previous post above:

So obviously, both Finn and Poe talk indoors. Difficult to see if the background is the same. Still, we know that it happens by the very end of the movie given Finn's injuries. Like I pointed out, Billie Lourd is in the background of the shot with Poe. And she appears in the BTS with John and Daisy who both are in the physical state of the end of the movie. At least, Daisy has her bruise on the forehead.

Now, let's pay attention to the dialogue:

Finn: I was raised to fight?. But for the first time, I had something to fight for

Poe: We are the sparks that will lit the fire that will burn the FO down

IMO, these two dialogue happen in the same sequence after the evacuation. I don't think that Poe and Finn would have that kind of speech before the Crait battle or in the course of the action. It sounds to me very much like a reunion of defeated heroes who draw a general and personal bilan of the defeat:

Poe says that they are "the sparks", which suggests to me that there isn't much left of the Resistance by the end of the movie. So I think that they will get a big defeat that will be much more consequential than the defeat of the Rebel Alliance on Hoth. That kind of discourse confirms to me that Poe will rise as a leader of the Resistance in Episode 9, becoming the leader Leia wantedhim to be and not simply the best resistant pilot. However, no way that Leia is dead at the end of the movie since it was confirmed that Carrie Fisher was supposed to have a more important role inEpisode 9

From his side, Finn seems to draw a personal bilan and what he says is very interesting. He doesn't say that for the first time he has something to fight for but that for the first time he had something to fight for pale I don't know for you guys but for me it suggests to me that Finn has kinda lose something in the course of the battle, something that for the first time gave him a reason to fight for. Either he is bitter about something or on the very contrary he is trying to motivate troops again like Poe

So I was asking myself whether Finn was bitter for having lost something or if he was motivating troops. Seems like LF heard me and answered my question in TV post 7 Laughing

From TV Spot 6 : "I was raised to fight. But for the first time I had something to fight

From TV spot 7 : "We have to fight"

So before the final stage of the battle or after the evacuation Question

by LesCousinsDangereux Fri 17 Nov 2017, 8:28 am

Regarding the newest trailer and the new scenes with Rey and Luke, I admit I am a bit confused now, as it seems that Luke changes his mind [at least] twice about teaching her?

1) Initial meeting (who are you, why are you here?) Luke takes the lightsaber but then hands it back (as it ends up in Rey’s bag). He refuses to train her (we assume)

2) Rey trains on her own with the staff, and then with the lightsaber, as Luke watches on (and reconsiders so agrees to train her?)

3) Luke teaches her some mediation (Breath, just breath, what do you see?) Then in the same scene she levitates the rocks and cracks the earth, and Luke is scared.

4) Luke refuses to teach her anymore, because of her raw power (similar to Kylo, and we know that did not go well)

5) Rey pleads with him saying she will not fail him as Kylo.

6) Luke changes his mind again and teaches her some more?

So we go from:
I won’t train you
Ok, I will train you
No, I was right the first time, I will not train you
Ok, I changed my mind (yet again) and I will train you

This does not make much sense to me. It would make sense from story-telling perspective for Luke to change his mind once (go from No to Yes, OR from Yes to No), but change it twice (or even 3 times!)?

What do you all think? And do you think we can re-arrange the pieces we know in a different order that would make more sense?

by Anakin Skywalker Fri 17 Nov 2017, 9:06 am

@LesCousinsDangereux

when Rey arrives on Achtoo she wears jacket, in the staff/seber train she doesn't, in meditation again jacket.
I know she can put it on and off, but not all the time, right?
so if training and meditation scenes are same sequence, I don't see her puting it back to meditating after train.

1) arrive
2) meditation and luke's refuse (Luke goes inside cave)
3) she follows and dialogue "'Kylo failed you, I won't!" and "I need someone"
4) training her own (with staff/seber, Luke watches, still not ready to be her teacher)
5) going to tree cave, seeing books and dialogue "I need help" "jedi must end"
6) swimming and rain scenes with new hairsyle

tough I'm not sure about "something awaken in me", it looks like same speech with tree cave "I need help" but it's kind of the thing she would say first time, kind of introduce herself, when tree cave, seeing this old books and this "spacial" place couldn't be in beginning, also Luke wouldn't talk to her (someone strange, new) about his new vision on Jedi and light/dark, he wouldn't say "jedi must end" until some connection to her. so "something always was in me" and introduction should be earlier and tree cave "jedi must end" later.

by Anakin Skywalker Fri 17 Nov 2017, 10:32 pm

I posted in in trailer thread, but with the speed of that thread...
so I made timeline video, edited all footage that we already have, and tried to considered every trust worth spoiler, information and speculation. of course I don't know everything, I just tried, to follow timeline, but there are shots which doesn't fit (with the info that we have) anywhere, so I added question sign on the scenes that I don't know/not sure where to put, I would glad if you help to make this timeline more realistic Smile)) there is also sign for behind the scenes footage

so Kylo's timeline is most hard one, it doesn't make sense Sad

he clearly is with FO after hand reaching scene, and he clearly is on Crait, which is definitely after Supremacy and Snoke/Rey scene (where I still believe he helped Rey, though if he openly turned Snoke he wouldn't lead stormtroopers after that) so I don't know Sad

by DarthRen Sat 18 Nov 2017, 4:44 pm

Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

by DeeBee Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:38 pm

DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?

TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 21 Drill_10

by DarthRen Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:44 pm

DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?

@DeeBee

I think so. It looks like some kind of heavy machinery or a tank. Since base of the Resistance is carved into the mountain, it makes sense for FO to construct some kind of drill to make an entrance and destroy them.

by DeeBee Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:47 pm

DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?
@DeeBee

I think so. It looks like some kind of heavy machinery or a tank. Since base of the Resistance is carved into the mountain, it makes sense for FO to construct some kind of drill to make an entrance and destroy them.

@DarthRen

The drill must be massive!!
I've been thinking the Crait battle is before and after supremacy..

I guess there is no reason the Crait battle could last days.. weeks no?
maybe its less of a battle and more of a campaign type of situation? with a few different battles taking place..

by DarthRen Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:55 pm

DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?
@DeeBee

I think so. It looks like some kind of heavy machinery or a tank. Since base of the Resistance is carved into the mountain, it makes sense for FO to construct some kind of drill to make an entrance and destroy them.
@DarthRen

The drill must be massive!!
I've been thinking the Crait battle is before and after supremacy..

I guess there is no reason the Crait battle could last days.. weeks no?
maybe its less of a battle and more of a campaign type of situation? with a few different battles taking place..

@DeeBee

I agree with that.

It seems the Resistance retreats there due to the perfect defensive location and thus making it a campaign raher than a simple battle. It might involve couple of attacks before we see this machinery in action. Look at the siege of Minas Tirith.

Catapults, towers with soldiers followed by a simple battering ram with soldiers. And than Grond that heavy ram that finally breaks into the city of Minas Tirith.

by PalmettoBlue Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:07 pm

DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?
@DeeBee

I think so. It looks like some kind of heavy machinery or a tank. Since base of the Resistance is carved into the mountain, it makes sense for FO to construct some kind of drill to make an entrance and destroy them.
@DarthRen

The drill must be massive!!
I've been thinking the Crait battle is before and after supremacy..

I guess there is no reason the Crait battle could last days.. weeks no?
maybe its less of a battle and more of a campaign type of situation? with a few different battles taking place..
@DeeBee

I agree with that.

It seems the Resistance retreats there due to the perfect defensive location and thus making it a campaign raher than a simple battle. It might involve couple of attacks before we see this machinery in action. Look at the siege of Minas Tirith.

Catapults, towers with soldiers followed by a simple battering ram with soldiers. And than Grond that heavy ram that finally breaks into the city of Minas Tirith.

@DarthRen

I had also been thinking that maybe the Crait sequence was very extended. This drill is throwing my head canon into doubt...and I'm cool with that. I think Ahch-To is happening concurrently with some of the Crait sequences (eg - Kylo find Rey because he gets the map from the Resistance...and the initial sequences of the Crait battle could be early.) So perhaps the Supremacy shows up later at Crait, and DJ, Finn, and Rose infiltrate it to potentially minimize damage from it. But, it is fairly clear that Finn's battle with Phasma is late in the movie, right? Kylo's scar is mostly healed before the hangar gets blown to Hades and gone, so that has to be later. And there's apparently still more battle to come as Finn's hair is different.
That said, the more I see, the less I know. GAH

by vaderito Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:13 pm

So what happens when Kylo enters the base? That's a big drama. His igniting the saber here:

has the background similar to Crait base:

TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 21 Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-Laura-Dern-as-Admiral-Holdo-and-Carrie-Fisher-as-General-Leia-Organa-Behind-the-Scenes

OTOH, he has no cape in the video and he's entering the base with his cape on.

by Angelic Hellraiser Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:20 pm

This is out-of-the-blue and I hope I'm in the right thread, but I'd like some opinions on this. Feel free to disagree. ^_^ If this is the wrong thread, I do apologize.

Theory (It's long post so I put it under a spoiler tag.):

I also am currently speculating these gifs happen in this order. (My opinion could easily change on this, because we've so little to go on right now.)

GIFS:

by DarthRen Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:28 pm

PalmettoBlue wrote:
DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?
@DeeBee

I think so. It looks like some kind of heavy machinery or a tank. Since base of the Resistance is carved into the mountain, it makes sense for FO to construct some kind of drill to make an entrance and destroy them.
@DarthRen

The drill must be massive!!
I've been thinking the Crait battle is before and after supremacy..

I guess there is no reason the Crait battle could last days.. weeks no?
maybe its less of a battle and more of a campaign type of situation? with a few different battles taking place..
@DeeBee

I agree with that.

It seems the Resistance retreats there due to the perfect defensive location and thus making it a campaign raher than a simple battle. It might involve couple of attacks before we see this machinery in action. Look at the siege of Minas Tirith.

Catapults, towers with soldiers followed by a simple battering ram with soldiers. And than Grond that heavy ram that finally breaks into the city of Minas Tirith.
@DarthRen

I had also been thinking that maybe the Crait sequence was very extended. This drill is throwing my head canon into doubt...and I'm cool with that. I think Ahch-To is happening concurrently with some of the Crait sequences (eg - Kylo find Rey because he gets the map from the Resistance...and the initial sequences of the Crait battle could be early.) So perhaps the Supremacy shows up later at Crait, and DJ, Finn, and Rose infiltrate it to potentially minimize damage from it. But, it is fairly clear that Finn's battle with Phasma is late in the movie, right? Kylo's scar is mostly healed before the hangar gets blown to Hades and gone, so that has to be later. And there's apparently still more battle to come as Finn's hair is different.
That said, the more I see, the less I know. GAH

@PalmettoBlue

I don't think that drill disproves your headcanon. It might be the final assault from FO on Crait base and makes it a campaign. Finn has a different haircut in some scene, yellowish uniform and he has a wound + FO pants on Crait. So I guess Supremacy, Crait and then some more of their battle.

I just have no idea Kylo's cape, bruises, wounds, pants, machinery. It's just a big mess. Question

by reylo1992 Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:11 pm

DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:
DeeBee wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Someone on SW subreddit find out a pretty good detail. FO will use some giant drill to enter the Resistance base and that's where Kylo and Snow/Fire Stormtroopers are heading. Just to know why is Kylo still with them. It just messes up the timeline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7dvqnx/the_first_order_uses_a_spoiler_on_crait/

@DarthRen

Thanks @DarthRen - is this the drill in the middle here being dragged along?
@DeeBee

I think so. It looks like some kind of heavy machinery or a tank. Since base of the Resistance is carved into the mountain, it makes sense for FO to construct some kind of drill to make an entrance and destroy them.
@DarthRen

The drill must be massive!!
I've been thinking the Crait battle is before and after supremacy..

I guess there is no reason the Crait battle could last days.. weeks no?
maybe its less of a battle and more of a campaign type of situation? with a few different battles taking place..
@DeeBee

I agree with that.

It seems the Resistance retreats there due to the perfect defensive location and thus making it a campaign raher than a simple battle. It might involve couple of attacks before we see this machinery in action. Look at the siege of Minas Tirith.

Catapults, towers with soldiers followed by a simple battering ram with soldiers. And than Grond that heavy ram that finally breaks into the city of Minas Tirith.

@DarthRen

That kinda confirms that there are two rounds in this battle. A first round won by the Resistance with Finn sreaming "Wow" indicating that things go pretty well. But the FO is smart: they're gonna use the drill in the second round when the Resistance has not enough munitions any more. And with the drill - and whatever is used to power it - they'll manage to enter into the base. And then, what's the deal? Is it only a remake of Hoth with the only goal to defeat and catch the ennemy or is there something more behind it?

by reylo1992 Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:19 pm

vaderito wrote:So what happens when Kylo enters the base? That's a big drama. His igniting the saber here:

has the background similar to Crait base:

OTOH, he has no cape in the video and he's entering the base with his cape on.

@vaderito

Interesting. This looks indeed like the same background. Is it sure that this is on Crait? I would rathersay yes given Leia's costume but it could be very well on a ship. The background during the D'Qar battle is also hell grey. And is it sure that Kylo has no cape here? I can't figure out very well. I find interesting that in the TV spot "Awake", the shot is used to say "darkness " but doesn't show his face, instead cutting to Snoke finishing the sentence "rises". I also hear a roar when he ignites the lightsaber.

by reylo1992 Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:26 pm

Angelic Hellraiser wrote:
This is out-of-the-blue and I hope I'm in the right thread, but I'd like some opinions on this. Feel free to disagree. ^_^ If this is the wrong thread, I do apologize.

Theory (It's long post so I put it under a spoiler tag.):

I also am currently speculating these gifs happen in this order. (My opinion could easily change on this, because we've so little to go on right now.)

GIFS:

@Angelic Hellraiser

Nice nailing down the timeline there Thumbs up

by vaderito Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:00 pm

@reylo1992 It's crait cause the same background featured in the background of Vanity fair photoshoot and that was Crait base.

by reylo1992 Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:08 pm

vaderito wrote:@reylo1992 It's crait cause the same background featured in the background of Vanity fair photoshoot and that was Crait base.

@vaderito

Allright. So we have now two mystery shots of Kylo possibly both taking place on Crait, and not fitting very well with the general the timeline - at least from a Reylo POV

by vaderito Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:12 pm

reylo1992 wrote:
vaderito wrote:@reylo1992 It's crait cause the same background featured in the background of Vanity fair photoshoot and that was Crait base.
@vaderito

Allright. So we have now two mystery shots of Kylo possibly both taking place on Crait, and not fitting very well with the general the timeline - at least from a Reylo POV

@reylo1992

It actually fits very well. Cause they inserted Rey with the saber onto Iceland landscape (lava sand) so I guess she'll intercept him somewhere. There were also toys of Rey with the lightsaber and a big glacier or salt-ier behind her, which is also from Crait (Remember Daisy and John goofing around in front of it?). It seems that they will cross their sabers in that area. or something.

by Angelic Hellraiser Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:19 pm

vaderito wrote:
reylo1992 wrote:
vaderito wrote:@reylo1992 It's crait cause the same background featured in the background of Vanity fair photoshoot and that was Crait base.
@vaderito

Allright. So we have now two mystery shots of Kylo possibly both taking place on Crait, and not fitting very well with the general the timeline - at least from a Reylo POV
@reylo1992

It actually fits very well. Cause they inserted Rey with the saber onto Iceland landscape (lava sand) so I guess she'll intercept him somewhere. There were also toys of Rey with the lightsaber and a big glacier or salt-ier behind her, which is also from Crait (Remember Daisy and John goofing around in front of it?). It seems that they will cross their sabers in that area. or something.

@vaderito

I think you're onto something, because I remember the speculations of Adam being in one of the BTS shots in the sizzle reel and Leia there, too. (around 2:32)

by DarthRen Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:21 pm

vaderito wrote:
reylo1992 wrote:
vaderito wrote:@reylo1992 It's crait cause the same background featured in the background of Vanity fair photoshoot and that was Crait base.
@vaderito

Allright. So we have now two mystery shots of Kylo possibly both taking place on Crait, and not fitting very well with the general the timeline - at least from a Reylo POV
@reylo1992

It actually fits very well. Cause they inserted Rey with the saber onto Iceland landscape (lava sand) so I guess she'll intercept him somewhere. There were also toys of Rey with the lightsaber and a big glacier or salt-ier behind her, which is also from Crait (Remember Daisy and John goofing around in front of it?). It seems that they will cross their sabers in that area. or something.

@vaderito

Crossing sabers again? If he saves her before that on Supremacy, kinda weird. Definitely that this wouldn't look good for us.

by reylo1992 Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:34 pm

DarthRen wrote:
vaderito wrote:
reylo1992 wrote:
vaderito wrote:@reylo1992 It's crait cause the same background featured in the background of Vanity fair photoshoot and that was Crait base.
@vaderito

Allright. So we have now two mystery shots of Kylo possibly both taking place on Crait, and not fitting very well with the general the timeline - at least from a Reylo POV
@reylo1992

It actually fits very well. Cause they inserted Rey with the saber onto Iceland landscape (lava sand) so I guess she'll intercept him somewhere. There were also toys of Rey with the lightsaber and a big glacier or salt-ier behind her, which is also from Crait (Remember Daisy and John goofing around in front of it?). It seems that they will cross their sabers in that area. or something.
@vaderito

Crossing sabers again? If he saves her before that on Supremacy, kinda weird. Definitely that this wouldn't look good for us.

@DarthRen

Exactly the reason why I say it doesn't fit well with the general timeline from a Reylo POV (I guess that Antis don't care) if they cross sabers on Crait because it means:
1) We are wrong with the timeline and actually it happens before Supremacy (what I personally heavily doubt)
or
2) He did save her on Supremacy but decided to stay by the FO side because he thinks it's right (what I kinda doubt because I don't see why Kylo would stay with the FO after betraying Snoke who must be absolutely furious against him/ and if he does because Snoke is out of the game, not good for us because he becomes the biggest fish, right?)
or
3) He did save her on Supremacy but something "weird" is going on with him
or
4) He did save her and is actually playing a role to help the Resistance
or
4) He actually never saved her from Snoke on Supremacy and Rey had to get out of there all alone (what IMO would imply "bye bye Reylo")

by vaderito Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:42 pm

@reylo1992 It's only if Supremacy happens before Crait battle. But we know that there's more after because:

Rose with new hair looking sad while sitting on MF ramp. That's defo after the skimmer battle cause she has her old hair in the skimmer. So Rose is sad, most likely something about Finn (what else?). She's sitting on MF ramp. Ahem, that's not random. She's waiting for someone who's gonna board MF. That seems to me like there's gonna be some change of the location. Someone is gonna fly somewhere. Rose is sad (likely won't fly with them). Where would they go? IMO, Snoke's the best bet cause that's climactic but I may be super off here.

by reylo1992 Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:02 pm

vaderito wrote:@reylo1992 It's only if Supremacy happens before Crait battle. But we know that there's more after because:

Rose with new hair looking sad while sitting on MF ramp. That's defo after the skimmer battle cause she has her old hair in the skimmer. So Rose is sad, most likely something about Finn (what else?). She's sitting on MF ramp. Ahem, that's not random. She's waiting for someone who's gonna board MF. That seems to me like there's gonna be some change of the location. Someone is gonna fly somewhere. Rose is sad (likely won't fly with them). Where would they go? IMO, Snoke's the best bet cause that's climactic but I may be super off here.

@vaderito

I didn't recognize the MF ramp. Interesting: so she wouldn't cry because of her sister's death. Hmm...

TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 21 Starwa10

So it also implies somehow that there is time-gap after the Crait battle if she has new hair there. And we know that Finn has also new hair with complete new outfit. IMO, that's rather at the very end of the movie because even if that's a very long movie, that already makes a lot of actions scene. Maybe that the movie ends with the beginning of the new mission, who knows.

Btw, does anyone know where that shot of Rey and Poe fits? I suppose that it also happens after the evacuation from Crait since she has her bruise and there are indoors but apparently not in the Crait base, right?

TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 21 Reypoe10

by vaderito Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:45 pm

@reylo1992 Rey and Poe are on MF.

Finn's hair is tricky cause it could be a residue from Pacific Rim during TFA reshoots. OTOH, Rose hair is intended to be different.

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