Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

hm, even if it's some kind of training - that's not nice... and not the Jedi way, Luke

if this is anything official, than we have proof, that he isn't training with PG in the begining, he is fighting them later in the movie
(but I don't understand, if he will fight PG or do any obvious actions against FO/Snoke, then how he is leading them on Crait, and I'm sure Crait is later, because of Ray's bruise and many other reasons)
https://twitter.com/starwarstuff/status/930868011539582985

Night Huntress wrote:hm, even if it's some kind of training - that's not nice... and not the Jedi way, Luke

@Night Huntress

But "It's time for the Jedi to end"

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:is that Luke and Rey????

@Night Huntress

I would say so.

@Darth_Awakened

If so is Luke using is 'dragon' headed walking stick ?

Moonlight13 wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:hm, even if it's some kind of training - that's not nice... and not the Jedi way, Luke

@Night Huntress

But "It's time for the Jedi to end"

@Moonlight13

Exactly! EXACTLY!

No, really - I wonder if they just fight to train or if they mean it...

MrsWindu wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:is that Luke and Rey????

@Night Huntress

I would say so.

@Darth_Awakened

If so is Luke using is 'dragon' headed walking stick ?

@MrsWindu

Luke is supposed to have a snake-like carving on the top of his walking stick.

MrsWindu wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:is that Luke and Rey????

@Night Huntress

I would say so.

@Darth_Awakened

If so is Luke using is 'dragon' headed walking stick ?

@MrsWindu

Maybe Luke is using his cattle prod!

I wondered if this is Rey and Kylo.. but I figured she would face him with the lightsaber.. but.. why am I assuming that?

DeeBee wrote:I wondered if this is Rey and Kylo.. but I figured she would face him with the lightsaber.. but.. why am I assuming that?

@DeeBee

Maybe Kylo arrived on Ahch-To unarmed and picked up a stick for the fight

Forsythia wrote:

DeeBee wrote:I wondered if this is Rey and Kylo.. but I figured she would face him with the lightsaber.. but.. why am I assuming that?

@DeeBee

Maybe Kylo arrived on Ahch-To unarmed and picked up a stick for the fight

@Forsythia

rofl! we've got more theories than you can poke a stick at!

I don't know if someone has already brought it (I saw parts of the interview posted yesterday), but this is super interesting:

Source:
https://sleemo.tumblr.com/post/167532450217/the-dark-side-awaits-scifinow

However, while it is normally the hero who’s coming of age, The Last Jedi is
slightly different. “In this story,” Johnson says, “I think Rey and Kylo are almost like a dual protagonist. You identify with Rey, but also you identify with Kylo in a way that you never did with Vader. I know I do. Because if these movies are about adolescence, Kylo is that anger of adolescence and that rejection of the parents, and wanting to screw over your dad; and that’s something that all of us, to some degree, can identify with. And the idea of there being a bad guy who you identify with as much as you do the protagonist in some way, that’s really interesting.”

The next question, of course, is who’s to say who the bad guy is? It’s a question that Daisy Ridley finds interesting. “It’s funny how Adam [Driver, who plays Kylo Ren] talks about it. He said it’s not the difference between good and bad, it’s the difference between good and right. Like his character thinks what he’s doing is right. He doesn’t think he’s the big baddie. So the lines get blurred anyway. Good people make bad decisions. Bad people make good decisions. What Rian has done is this wonderful thing of morally questioning people in a way that makes you see them in a more three dimensional way, or just in a way that you haven’t seen before.”

Boyega agrees, and it’s clearly a topic he finds fascinating. “You know, in war, you’re not always going to be on the side of the good guys,” he says. “If the good guys are getting killed off, I’d probably be like: ‘You know what? I’m going to go get a job at the Empire base and just have a peaceful life.’ So the characters are challenged right now. They have to make these decisions as to where they stand. Even General Leia and Poe Dameron. If they’re going to stand for the Resistance, it has to be for a significant reason. Rian came and made this really challenging. And that’s what I really love.”

Darth Dingbat wrote:New exclusive poster:



Source: https://twitter.com/AMCTheatres/status/930843307856551936

Plot twist: Luke pushes Rey off the cliff?!

(I love how these posters make Rey and Kylo look like a team.)

@Darth Dingbat

They do look like a team.  They don't look photoshopped onto a poster-- that really is the height difference between them, so it's like they are actually standing together like that in that position. (For what it's worth-- I'm Daisy's height, my teenage son is Adam's height.  I know how my kiddo puts his chin on top of my head when giving me one of those lanky hugs.).   Edited to add:  And half the time my son says something like, "Hello short little mom."  I'm 5'7"!!!  Not short!!!  I guess that's what the world looks like from 6'3".).

@Darth_Awakened That quote from Rian is great, but I hope that the movie explains where Kylo is coming from with his anger and rejection of parents etc., or otherwise many (most?) people won't see him as anything other than a horrible brat/bad seed. It's no use telling in interviews how all people can identify with Kylo if you don't explain his motivations where it actually counts.

Saracene wrote:@Darth_Awakened That quote from Rian is great, but I hope that the movie explains where Kylo is coming from with his anger and rejection of parents etc., or otherwise many (most?) people won't see him as anything other than a horrible brat/bad seed. It's no use telling in interviews how all people can identify with Kylo if you don't explain his motivations where it actually counts.

@Saracene
Honestly, I get the sense it's going to be addressed big time. There's been too much talk about it from both Rian and Adam. BUT, I don't believe the primary focus will be on Han and Leia or their absent parenting, it'll be on the character whose background is actually relevant to TLJ: Luke.

Hamill has been pretty adamant that he was surprised by some of the choices Rian made for Luke in this film. I'm not saying Rian's going to blame everything on Luke (not at all, that would be awful), but I can imagine scenarios that still paint Kylo as responsible and Luke as justified that could be read very differently from the opposing perspective.

We can blame the mystery box on the over-propagation of "bad parents" Han and Leia as the primary reason Kylo feels abandoned. It's not about them, though I presume being sent away when he was young for something he didn't understand might have messed with his head and sewed the seeds of betrayal; it's about the character Kylo actually lived and travelled with in the years leading up to temple incident.

I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke. I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me. So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff.... Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also. But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power. I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

Birdwoman wrote:I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke.  I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me.  So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff....  Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also.  But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power.  I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

@Birdwoman
I actually think Luke is going to train Rey eventually, but he's going to push her like she's never been pushed before.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke.  I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me.  So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff....  Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also.  But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power.  I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

@Birdwoman
I actually think Luke is going to train Rey eventually, but he's going to push her like she's never been pushed before.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually something like that would make me feel sorry for Rey. Luke needed to be pushed because he was whiny and entitled and needed to learn some home truths. Rey has already had the worst and toughest life in the universe and now Mr. Tosche Station who dropped the ball with Ben and abandoned his sister is going to be harda** taskmaster for Rey? It's not impossible because there is definitely a history of hypocritical and insensitive Jedis (see the prequels), but I personally hope it doesn't go like that. I think Luke has a lot to learn himself.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke.  I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me.  So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff....  Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also.  But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power.  I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

@Birdwoman
I actually think Luke is going to train Rey eventually, but he's going to push her like she's never been pushed before.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually something like that would make me feel sorry for Rey. Luke needed to be pushed because he was whiny and entitled and needed to learn some home truths. Rey has already had the worst and toughest life in the universe and now Mr. Tosche Station who dropped the ball with Ben and abandoned his sister is going to be harda** taskmaster for Rey? It's not impossible because there is definitely a history of hypocritical and insensitive Jedis (see the prequels), but I personally hope it doesn't go like that. I think Luke has a lot to learn himself.

@SoloSideCousin
I mean push her because of her potential, i.e. her "raw power". He isn't going to trust that part of her.

Feeling bad for Rey isn't an issue for me. I expect her to go through extreme heartbreak in this movie. It's inevitable.

Luke isn't even going to be her teacher in the grand scheme of things, IMHO. Kylo and Rey will be mutual teacher-student or something. I really feel like this movie will be about bringing the two halves together.

Maybe I'll write a more comprehensible post about this tomorrow. I just got off a 12-hour shift and I'm not in the mood.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke.  I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me.  So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff....  Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also.  But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power.  I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

@Birdwoman
I actually think Luke is going to train Rey eventually, but he's going to push her like she's never been pushed before.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually something like that would make me feel sorry for Rey. Luke needed to be pushed because he was whiny and entitled and needed to learn some home truths. Rey has already had the worst and toughest life in the universe and now Mr. Tosche Station who dropped the ball with Ben and abandoned his sister is going to be harda** taskmaster for Rey? It's not impossible because there is definitely a history of hypocritical and insensitive Jedis (see the prequels), but I personally hope it doesn't go like that. I think Luke has a lot to learn himself.

@SoloSideCousin
I mean push her because of her potential, i.e. her "raw power". He isn't going to trust that part of her.

Feeling bad for Rey isn't an issue for me. I expect her to go through extreme heartbreak in this movie. It's inevitable.

Luke isn't even going to be her teacher in the grand scheme of things, IMHO. Kylo and Rey will be mutual teacher-student or something. I really feel like this movie will be about bringing the two halves together.

Maybe I'll write a more comprehensible post about this tomorrow. I just got off a 12-hour shift and I'm not in the mood.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, Rey is going to suffer, no way around that. But I just kind of find the idea of Luke, who seems like he's messed up some serious stuff, being put across as this figure who the filmmakers want you to think is totally justified in being a harda** with her, when he's got his own house to clean. He's not going to be introduced as Obi-Wan or Yoda, and he is not going to be introduced as ROTJ Luke. I just don't know if he will have the "street cred" to be the wise master who will have all the answers for her, who will even know what he's doing if he pushes her. (I mean he looks like a crazy dude in the just released TV spot). But we'll see how it works out.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke.  I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me.  So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff....  Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also.  But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power.  I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

@Birdwoman
I actually think Luke is going to train Rey eventually, but he's going to push her like she's never been pushed before.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually something like that would make me feel sorry for Rey. Luke needed to be pushed because he was whiny and entitled and needed to learn some home truths. Rey has already had the worst and toughest life in the universe and now Mr. Tosche Station who dropped the ball with Ben and abandoned his sister is going to be harda** taskmaster for Rey? It's not impossible because there is definitely a history of hypocritical and insensitive Jedis (see the prequels), but I personally hope it doesn't go like that. I think Luke has a lot to learn himself.

@SoloSideCousin
I mean push her because of her potential, i.e. her "raw power". He isn't going to trust that part of her.

Feeling bad for Rey isn't an issue for me. I expect her to go through extreme heartbreak in this movie. It's inevitable.

Luke isn't even going to be her teacher in the grand scheme of things, IMHO. Kylo and Rey will be mutual teacher-student or something. I really feel like this movie will be about bringing the two halves together.

Maybe I'll write a more comprehensible post about this tomorrow. I just got off a 12-hour shift and I'm not in the mood.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, Rey is going to suffer, no way around that. But I just kind of find the idea of Luke, who seems like he's messed up some serious stuff, being put across as this figure who the filmmakers want you to think is totally justified in being a harda** with her, when he's got his own house to clean. He's not going to be introduced as Obi-Wan or Yoda, and he is not going to be introduced as ROTJ Luke. I just don't know if he will have the "street cred" to be the wise master who will have all the answers for her, who will even know what he's doing if he pushes her. (I mean he looks like a crazy dude in the just released TV spot). But we'll see how it works out.

@SoloSideCousin
I feel like you're taking things from my words that I'm not meaning to imply at all. I.e, I didn't say he was going to be like Yoda or Obi-Wan. I also didn't say he was going to be the wise master. I didn't say any of this.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:I did not have time to comment yesterday about the poster with Rey fighting Kylo or Luke.  I am not sure who it is, however the thought Luke could or would possibly push her over a cliff shocked me.  So, if it is Luke that is fighting her with his staff....  Maybe he is so scared of her and he wants her to get off his Island so he is literally forcing her off the Island? It could be training scene also.  But I have this feeling he is not going to want to train her after seeing her power.  I can imagine that would shock the GA if Luke did something like that.....
Most people expect her to fight Kylo so Luke being the one that is aggressive would shock a lot of people without Luke turning full on evil.

@Birdwoman
I actually think Luke is going to train Rey eventually, but he's going to push her like she's never been pushed before.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually something like that would make me feel sorry for Rey. Luke needed to be pushed because he was whiny and entitled and needed to learn some home truths. Rey has already had the worst and toughest life in the universe and now Mr. Tosche Station who dropped the ball with Ben and abandoned his sister is going to be harda** taskmaster for Rey? It's not impossible because there is definitely a history of hypocritical and insensitive Jedis (see the prequels), but I personally hope it doesn't go like that. I think Luke has a lot to learn himself.

@SoloSideCousin
I mean push her because of her potential, i.e. her "raw power". He isn't going to trust that part of her.

Feeling bad for Rey isn't an issue for me. I expect her to go through extreme heartbreak in this movie. It's inevitable.

Luke isn't even going to be her teacher in the grand scheme of things, IMHO. Kylo and Rey will be mutual teacher-student or something. I really feel like this movie will be about bringing the two halves together.

Maybe I'll write a more comprehensible post about this tomorrow. I just got off a 12-hour shift and I'm not in the mood.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, Rey is going to suffer, no way around that. But I just kind of find the idea of Luke, who seems like he's messed up some serious stuff, being put across as this figure who the filmmakers want you to think is totally justified in being a harda** with her, when he's got his own house to clean. He's not going to be introduced as Obi-Wan or Yoda, and he is not going to be introduced as ROTJ Luke. I just don't know if he will have the "street cred" to be the wise master who will have all the answers for her, who will even know what he's doing if he pushes her. (I mean he looks like a crazy dude in the just released TV spot). But we'll see how it works out.

@SoloSideCousin
I feel like you're taking things from my words that I'm not meaning to imply at all. I.e, I didn't say he was going to be like Yoda or Obi-Wan. I also didn't say he was going to be the wise master. I didn't say any of this.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I didn't say you did. I was using them as references of mentors that come in with built-in credibility.

What I am trying to say, I guess quite poorly, is that I don't think that the Luke we will meet will have the credibility to be pushing or making demands of much of anybody, unlike the other mentors I mentioned who didn't come in with baggage in the OT. But again, we'll see how it goes.

In retrospect both Yoda & Obi wan had baggage, they both messed up pretty badly in the PT, neither of them have "shine" yet they both had a long time alone to meditate and come to grips with their mistakes. What is a good mentor ? You want want one that has lived and f'uped a couple of times. Luke & Rey need each other we are just not sure yet what for and what will be the lessons learned on both sides.

Did Obi Wan and Yoda actually learn from their mistakes though?
As mentors they weren't exactly faultless and even though in the PT they messed up bad when it came to Anakin, they still kept the truth from his son and hoped to use Luke to kill Vader.

Obi & Yoda were doing the best they could with what they had. People in the galaxy were suffereing under Palps & Vader, Leia was asking for help so in context at that time. Yes.

It’s not a spoiler, but in her interview by Entertainment Weekly, Janina Gavankar a.k.a. Iden Versio from Battlefront 2 mentions that she’s seen parts of TLJ because she’s part of the “loop group”. If I understood well, it’s a group of voice actors doing the voices for background characters in movies. Some people have nice jobs

http://ew.com/gaming/2017/11/15/star-wars-battlefront-2-janina-gavankar-iden-versio/

SanghaRen wrote:It’s not a spoiler, but in her interview by Entertainment Weekly, Janina Gavankar a.k.a. Iden Versio from Battlefront 2 mentions that she’s seen parts of TLJ because she’s part of the “loop group”. If I understood well, it’s a group of voice actors doing the voices for background characters in movies. Some people have nice jobs

http://ew.com/gaming/2017/11/15/star-wars-battlefront-2-janina-gavankar-iden-versio/

@SanghaRen

Actually, it's a group of mappings from a manifold M to a topological group G.