Sequel Trilogy: Box Office and Awards Discussion

Atenais wrote:

RosiePancake wrote:

Atenais wrote:

EchoBase wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

The fanboys were pissed because of Luke. They had no time to worry about Reylo. Especially the GA seems to love the idea of a heroine/villain romance. And since the script of Ep IX is nearly finished and they have no time for rewrites, I don't think the "backlash" will affect Ep IX. There is no need to worry. I still remember how some of us freaked out because of the TLJ rewrites. Some assumed it was because of the antis who hated the idea of Reylo (which obviously wasnt a mainstream idea back then). Now, look how that turned out .

Apart from this, and maybe I'm in denial, but after all that happened, why do I have a gut feeling that this was all planned and there is no real "plotgate". Well, at least there is obviously a red thread, isn't it?

@EchoBase

The storyline, till now, makes sense to me. I don't know why people are so pissed about Rey being a nobody and Snoke being an useless villain. If the main plot is about Kylo and Rey (and I'm not talking about them romantically, but as the new characters of the trilogy), why shouldn't they use Snoke as part of their plot? Luke... Why are people complaining about Luke? At last his character feels real and I found his arc beautiful.

Anyway, I wish I had your positivity. I really believe they can change the storyline if they think they can get more money taking another path.

@Atenais


Which "another path" you are talking about? Reylo has been received praises from many sides, including GA, critics, even neckbeard fanboys. They have no problem with Reylo whatsoever and most of them can easily admit that Reylo is the best part and the savior of TLJ without any complain.
The criticism is mostly aiming at Luke and the other weak, meaningless and underdeveloped subplots such as Canto Bight, the movie's pacing, etc..
About Luke, sadly we can't do anything at this point because Luke's character arc is completed in TLJ. Maybe they will change something in EP9 to calm Luke's fanboys, such as Snoke used his ancient darkside power to influence Luke, and it wasn't completely Luke's fault when he tried to murder Ben, who knows?

@RosiePancake

I'm talking about redempetion, about Kylo being the ultimate bad guy. Since people don't understand much nuance, maybe they will follow a more traditional path.

I don't know why people wants Luke to be perfect, none jedi before him was. The jedi council in its brightest time let a Sith take control of the galaxy. lol

@Atenais

I understand your concern, but even from a financial standpoint, now it's hard for them to kill Kylo the last Skywalker/Solo. He has outshined the other male characters since TFA and his merchs outsell Finn/Poe like crazy (and sadly the merchandise sales of Finn/Poe is even lower than Han/Luke). After TLJ, it's no doubt that more people sympathize with Kylo and root for him and Reylo. While Finn/Poe's subplots in TLJ still receive harsh criticisms and disappointment.
SW is a franchise that heavily relies on the merchandising to live since Lucas's era, I don't think eliminating the Skywalker's bloodline out of Disney's SW extended universe is a wise choice at all.

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:I am more curious how will Rian approach his new trilogy, if this will have any sort of effect on him. Obviously, not everyone is a fan of ambiguity and such a different approch to Star Wars movies.

@DarthRen

Yes, me too. Looks like people still prefer plain plots.

@Atenais
I think there's a difference between what people prefer and what they've grown accustomed to. TLJ actually shook fans and nobody was really expecting that (GA or hardcore alike). It wasn't made to make you feel elated like TFA. Rian made the kind of character-driven film blockbusters don't really handle anymore these days, and I think part of the divisiveness has stemmed from that. They were expecting to walk in and watch a 2 hour "pew pew" festival with a few epic lines, but TLJ actually makes you think. It isn't comfortable or safe. It's totally a modern ESB and that's what LF was going for. It's going to be remembered in the future and probably hailed as a masterpiece one day. It has legitimate cult appeal and memorable, quotable dialogue.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:I am more curious how will Rian approach his new trilogy, if this will have any sort of effect on him. Obviously, not everyone is a fan of ambiguity and such a different approch to Star Wars movies.

@DarthRen

Yes,  me too. Looks like people still prefer plain plots.

@Atenais
I think there's a difference between what people prefer and what they've grown accustomed to. TLJ actually shook fans and nobody was really expecting that (GA or hardcore alike). It wasn't made to make you feel elated like TFA. Rian made the kind of character-driven film blockbusters don't really handle anymore these days, and I think part of the divisiveness has stemmed from that. They were expecting to walk in and watch a 2 hour "pew pew" festival with a few epic lines, but TLJ actually makes you think. It isn't comfortable or safe. It's totally a modern ESB and that's what LF was going for. It's going to be remembered in the future and probably hailed as a masterpiece one day. It has legitimate cult appeal and memorable, quotable dialogue.

@FrolickingFizzgig

DarthRen wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

Movie is doing well, it will not be TFA level no movie will be maybe apart from the Avengers. TFA was one-off. TLJ can attack 1.3bn at this rate worldwide but backlash was over no mystery solved, Luke.

I wonder if the movie box office will affect Ep IX.

@DarthRen

I ask myself the same and, worst, I ask myself if the box office of TLJ will affect the future storyline. We can't be naive to think they would not change things to get a better response from audience. Such a pitty, TLJ was such a brave movie, I loved it since the beginning, despite people complaining about the movie everywhere (even amongst Reylo fans).

@Atenais

The movie itself brought out of our comfort zones and made us think pretty deeply. I think Rian overestimated the audience and their understanding of ambiguity and nuance. JJ already pitched the idea to Bob Iger, so we'll see where it goes.

EchoBase wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

The fanboys were pissed because of Luke. They had no time to worry about Reylo. Especially the GA seems to love the idea of a heroine/villain romance. And since the script of Ep IX is nearly finished and they have no time for rewrites, I don't think the "backlash" will affect Ep IX. There is no need to worry. I still remember how some of us freaked out because of the TLJ rewrites. Some assumed it was because of the antis who hated the idea of Reylo (which obviously wasnt a mainstream idea back then). Now, look how that turned out .

Apart from this, and maybe I'm in denial, but after all that happened, why do I have a gut feeling that this was all planned and there is no real "plotgate". Well, at least there is obviously a red thread, isn't it?

@EchoBase

JJ recently pitched and delivered the script to Disney heads including Bob Iger. I think theys'll upon the box office of TLJ to see where it should go, sure they have contingency plans and got a time to re-write some smaller things. We got 6 months till principal photography for Ep IX. Money is the key factor for Disney here but JJ wil have to go a little bizt back to the original, to make it a bit more nostalgic too given "backlash" for TLJ. I know few fans that are like Atenais worried about this.

@DarthRen

There is no script for Ep IX yet. All JJ has pitched to Bob Iger is the story outline, Pablo Hidalgo and Matt Martin confirmed that. JJ and Chris Terrio are on a tight schedule here and I wouldn’t be surprised if shooting got pushed back slightly from June 2018. I can’t remember how long JJ and LK had to write the script for TFA, but I think that was on a pretty tight schedule too. Rian had the longest to luxuriate over his writing from being involved right through the shooting of TFA. At least JJ had similar involvement with TLJ as executive producer so he must have had some personal idea of where he saw the story going from there. I guess they’ve got 6 months to whip a script into shape and might even end up changing some things during production as JJ did with TFA.

KrazyForKylo wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

Movie is doing well, it will not be TFA level no movie will be maybe apart from the Avengers. TFA was one-off. TLJ can attack 1.3bn at this rate worldwide but backlash was over no mystery solved, Luke.

I wonder if the movie box office will affect Ep IX.

@DarthRen

I ask myself the same and, worst, I ask myself if the box office of TLJ will affect the future storyline. We can't be naive to think they would not change things to get a better response from audience. Such a pitty, TLJ was such a brave movie, I loved it since the beginning, despite people complaining about the movie everywhere (even amongst Reylo fans).

@Atenais

The movie itself brought out of our comfort zones and made us think pretty deeply. I think Rian overestimated the audience and their understanding of ambiguity and nuance. JJ already pitched the idea to Bob Iger, so we'll see where it goes.

EchoBase wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

The fanboys were pissed because of Luke. They had no time to worry about Reylo. Especially the GA seems to love the idea of a heroine/villain romance. And since the script of Ep IX is nearly finished and they have no time for rewrites, I don't think the "backlash" will affect Ep IX. There is no need to worry. I still remember how some of us freaked out because of the TLJ rewrites. Some assumed it was because of the antis who hated the idea of Reylo (which obviously wasnt a mainstream idea back then). Now, look how that turned out .

Apart from this, and maybe I'm in denial, but after all that happened, why do I have a gut feeling that this was all planned and there is no real "plotgate". Well, at least there is obviously a red thread, isn't it?

@EchoBase

JJ recently pitched and delivered the script to Disney heads including Bob Iger. I think theys'll upon the box office of TLJ to see where it should go, sure they have contingency plans and got a time to re-write some smaller things. We got 6 months till principal photography for Ep IX. Money is the key factor for Disney here but JJ wil have to go a little bizt back to the original, to make it a bit more nostalgic too given "backlash" for TLJ. I know few fans that are like Atenais worried about this.

@DarthRen

There is no script for Ep IX yet. All JJ has pitched to Bob Iger is the story outline, Pablo Hidalgo and Matt Martin confirmed that. JJ and Chris Terrio are on a tight schedule here and I wouldn’t be surprised if shooting got pushed back slightly from June 2018. I can’t remember how long JJ and LK had to write the script for TFA, but I think that was on a pretty tight schedule too. Rian had the longest to luxuriate over his writing from being involved right through the shooting of TFA. At least JJ had similar involvement with TLJ as executive producer so he must have had some personal idea of where he saw the story going from there. I guess they’ve got 6 months to whip a script into shape and might even end up changing some things during production as JJ did with TFA.

@KrazyForKylo

Better to adress it would be pitched the idea, not the whole script. Not sure how far they can push it because the schedule is not really friendly. It will be cutting it very close but maybe few weeks can be pushed back, but yeah not envy of this for JJ and Terrio. Things will change few tims during pre-production, filming and even post-production. Knowing how secretive JJ is, we got a lot of stuff for TLJ because we knew where the story should go, but at currently it can go several ways.

So I don't see any major Golden Globe noms unless they got some for the artistic production. Lady Bird, Post, and I, Tanya which came out around the same time have noms so I figure TLJ would receive noms for this cycle too.
I do think out of all the SW movies TLJ deserves actor, producer, writing, movie noms.

SheLitAFire wrote:So I don't see any major Golden Globe noms unless they got some for the artistic production. Lady Bird, Post, and I, Tanya which came out around the same time have noms so I figure TLJ would receive noms for this cycle too.
I do think out of all the SW movies TLJ deserves actor, producer, writing, movie noms.

@SheLitAFire

With those other films, though, there wasn't the secrecy involved leading up to TLJ's release. I think that some of those probably screened at Toronto or Sundance or other festivals before their wide releases.

If you look at the timeline for the Golden Globes, it's possible that unless you had a LF connection, not enough of the people responsible for nominating/voting had a chance to view TLJ before the deadlines:

https://www.goldenglobes.com/award-rules%E2%80%A2entry-forms

I do expect TLJ to get nominated for a few technical/effects Oscars, though, which run on a later timeline.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:So I don't see any major Golden Globe noms unless they got some for the artistic production. Lady Bird, Post, and I, Tanya which came out around the same time have noms so I figure TLJ would receive noms for this cycle too.
I do think out of all the SW movies TLJ deserves actor, producer, writing, movie noms.

@SheLitAFire

With those other films, though, there wasn't the secrecy involved leading up to TLJ's release. I think that some of those probably screened at Toronto or Sundance or other festivals before their wide releases.

If you look at the timeline for the Golden Globes, it's possible that unless you had a LF connection, not enough of the people responsible for nominating/voting had a chance to view TLJ before the deadlines:

https://www.goldenglobes.com/award-rules%E2%80%A2entry-forms

I do expect TLJ to get nominated for a few technical/effects Oscars, though, which run on a later timeline.

@ISeeAnIsland

So next year's cycle?
I'm just wondering if Hollywood will still be "meh" about scifi-fantasy & awards, despite great acting. I really think Mark & Adam deserve praise, recognition, noms.

I could have sworn there was an awards thread but I can’t find it (moderators pls move if possible)

I don’t know the criteria for being nominated for BFTAS but I sure hope they win in their category

https://twitter.com/adg800/status/952644333160640512

Rick Heinrichs did get nominated for Production design for a fantasy feature film by "Art Directors Guild" (ADG).
There are some new(?) concept pieces  in the tweet, looks like Kylo with his TFA cape.

I have not looked into the Art book yet so maybe those are in there.

@Blood Moon

That’s great to know - the production design concepts shown here are not in the Art of Book. I hope Heinrichs wins other the other Fantasy nominees as visuallly TLJ was amazing imo. I love all the red in these New Crait images

The Empire Awards aren't up there with the Oscars or Baftas but they do seem to have a fun evening and there's usually nice pics of the event after

MrsWindu wrote:The Empire Awards aren't up there with the Oscars or Baftas but they do seem to have a fun evening and there's usually nice pics of the event after

@MrsWindu

Adam and Mark should have been nominated for Best Actor. That's bulls***.
Also, I've never even heard of the Empire Awards before this year lol. Is it a big deal? I like to follow awards shows (golden globes, oscars, Emmys, critic's choice, SAG, people's choice, mtv, baftas) so I find it amusing I've never heard of this one.

KrazyForKylo wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

Movie is doing well, it will not be TFA level no movie will be maybe apart from the Avengers. TFA was one-off. TLJ can attack 1.3bn at this rate worldwide but backlash was over no mystery solved, Luke.

I wonder if the movie box office will affect Ep IX.

@DarthRen

I ask myself the same and, worst, I ask myself if the box office of TLJ will affect the future storyline. We can't be naive to think they would not change things to get a better response from audience. Such a pitty, TLJ was such a brave movie, I loved it since the beginning, despite people complaining about the movie everywhere (even amongst Reylo fans).

@Atenais

The movie itself brought out of our comfort zones and made us think pretty deeply. I think Rian overestimated the audience and their understanding of ambiguity and nuance. JJ already pitched the idea to Bob Iger, so we'll see where it goes.

EchoBase wrote:

Atenais wrote:

DarthRen wrote:http://variety.com/2017/film/box-office/box-office-star-wars-the-last-jedi-jumanji-2-1202648631/

@DarthRen

Only when I started to frequent this forum I realize the online war between fans, and after reading some posts I was really worried about the performance of the movie. I don't know if the Reylo thing affected the perception of the audience, looks more like people disliked having their mystery boxes burned down.

What do you think? What displeased people about the movie, Reylo or the mystery box?

@Atenais

The fanboys were pissed because of Luke. They had no time to worry about Reylo. Especially the GA seems to love the idea of a heroine/villain romance. And since the script of Ep IX is nearly finished and they have no time for rewrites, I don't think the "backlash" will affect Ep IX. There is no need to worry. I still remember how some of us freaked out because of the TLJ rewrites. Some assumed it was because of the antis who hated the idea of Reylo (which obviously wasnt a mainstream idea back then). Now, look how that turned out .

Apart from this, and maybe I'm in denial, but after all that happened, why do I have a gut feeling that this was all planned and there is no real "plotgate". Well, at least there is obviously a red thread, isn't it?

@EchoBase

JJ recently pitched and delivered the script to Disney heads including Bob Iger. I think theys'll upon the box office of TLJ to see where it should go, sure they have contingency plans and got a time to re-write some smaller things. We got 6 months till principal photography for Ep IX. Money is the key factor for Disney here but JJ wil have to go a little bizt back to the original, to make it a bit more nostalgic too given "backlash" for TLJ. I know few fans that are like Atenais worried about this.

@DarthRen

There is no script for Ep IX yet. All JJ has pitched to Bob Iger is the story outline, Pablo Hidalgo and Matt Martin confirmed that. JJ and Chris Terrio are on a tight schedule here and I wouldn’t be surprised if shooting got pushed back slightly from June 2018. I can’t remember how long JJ and LK had to write the script for TFA, but I think that was on a pretty tight schedule too. Rian had the longest to luxuriate over his writing from being involved right through the shooting of TFA. At least JJ had similar involvement with TLJ as executive producer so he must have had some personal idea of where he saw the story going from there. I guess they’ve got 6 months to whip a script into shape and might even end up changing some things during production as JJ did with TFA.

@KrazyForKylo

The time frame for rewriting Episode IX is similar to that of TFA.  JJ and Kasdan replaced Arndt in October 2013, with filming beginning in May 2014.  JJ and Trevio replaced Trevorrow in September 2014, with filming to start in June.  That would give would give them an two extra months this time.  But JJ and Kasdan had been working on TFA since early 2013 as director and consultant, respectively.  
We also don't know how much of Trevorrow's script will be used.  Arndt made enough contributions to receive a co-writing credit.

@SheLitAFire


Oh gosh its really quite low key - most of the catagories are voted for by readers of Empire magazine. JJ won best director for TFA in 2016, along with Daisy and John for best newcomers. I'm really surprised to there was no mention of Adam or Mark and most miffed.



https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/jameson-empire-awards-2016/

That's such a joke that Adam and Mark were not nominated in this. lol Obviously is a biased British magazine.

Still, who really cares is just a magazine award not a real one. All film critics agree that Adam gave one of the best performances in the film..

tukicarreno wrote:That's such a joke that Adam and Mark were not nominated in this. lol Obviously is a biased British magazine.

Still, who really cares is just a magazine award not a real one. All film critics agree that Adam gave one of the best performances in the film..

@tukicarreno

For John to get nominated while Adam did not tells me this is nothing more than a PR stunt.  I have nothing against John or his performance in TLJ but absolutely nothing holds a candle to Adam in that film.  I have never heard of these rewards, but it's very difficult for me to take them seriously after seeing this.

IoJovi wrote:

tukicarreno wrote:That's such a joke that Adam and Mark were not nominated in this. lol Obviously is a biased British magazine.

Still, who really cares is just a magazine award not a real one. All film critics agree that Adam gave one of the best performances in the film..

@tukicarreno

For John to get nominated while Adam did not tells me this is nothing more than a PR stunt.  I have nothing against John or his performance in TLJ but absolutely nothing holds a candle to Adam in that film.  I have never heard of these rewards, but it's very difficult for me to take them seriously after seeing this.

@IoJovi

EXACTLY! And it seems like they like to focus on action movies.... like no Lady Bird, 3 Billboards, The Shape of Water. Although Get Out is nominated so that's cool.

Adam deserves all the nominations...as for the Oscars, I don't agree on the "best supporting actor" nomination, I think he deserved "best actor" (sorry Mark!). In my opinion, his performance was the best of the movie.

SheLitAFire wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:The Empire Awards aren't up there with the Oscars or Baftas but they do seem to have a fun evening and there's usually nice pics of the event after

@MrsWindu

Adam and Mark should have been nominated for Best Actor. That's bulls***.
Also, I've never even heard of the Empire Awards before this year lol. Is it a big deal? I like to follow awards shows (golden globes, oscars, Emmys, critic's choice, SAG, people's choice, mtv, baftas) so I find it amusing I've never heard of this one.

@SheLitAFire

Yeah, no offense to John, but I mean, come on....Adam and Mark’s characters and performances were far, far more impactful in the film.

Empire is a British mainstream film magazine. I didn’t even know it gave out awards or had an awards show!

I partially redact one of my earlier comments. I just looked again and saw Frances McDormand nominated for 3 Billboards. Still...

lauvamp wrote:Adam deserves all the nominations...as for the Oscars, I don't agree on the "best supporting actor" nomination, I think he deserved "best actor" (sorry Mark!). In my opinion, his performance was the best of the movie.

@lauvamp

I must admit a dark secret - sometimes I imagine Adam giving a speech after winning an Oscar for Kylo's role and it makes me incredibly happy.

lauvamp wrote:Adam deserves all the nominations...as for the Oscars, I don't agree on the "best supporting actor" nomination, I think he deserved "best actor" (sorry Mark!). In my opinion, his performance was the best of the movie.

@lauvamp

I'm guessing that LF put Adam up for the "supporting" category because they probably figured he might have a shot there... "Best Actor" nominations tend to usually be reserved for more traditional "Oscar" movies. (Although I really hope that Daniel Kaluuya breaks that tradition this year.)

I'm really excited to see what the movie Adam does with Sylvester Stallone (Tough as They Come? Tough as Nails?) does for Adam's career. Playing a wounded veteran. I can see that bringing him more Oscar/Golden Globe rec just judging by the synopsis.

ETA: although I just went to check out the title on imdb and it's not listed as one of his future projects anymore......
It's still on imdb...but Adam isn't listed as the son in the cast. Damn. I wonder if it was scheduling conflict since episode IX was delayed.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6389432/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1

Oh gosh I never meant Empire awards were prestigious - I just grew up with the magazine and its awards in a geeky way. I agree they are very biased towards British fim makers and actors. I hope when the Oscar nominations are announced on Tuesday we will have Mark and Adam listed for their TLJ performances