Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

RotJ was when they finally showed the Emperor and Jabba after teasing at their menace for 2 films. Not the same here because we saw Snoke from the start. And him being gone takes out the firewall between Hux and Kylo, who JJ said were rivals and Rian had that zoom in shot at the end of TLJ for Hux. If I were going to write the next chapter (and remember JJ’s quote about ideas he had that he was now going to execute on), I’d go in that direction. They already hinted in the novelization that the FO operates like an Agatha Christie novel and now it’s down to two pieces on the chess board. And what’s been teased but hasn’t happened (and will happen) is Rey and Hux finally meet.

snufkin wrote:RotJ was when they finally showed the Emperor and Jabba after teasing at their menace for 2 films. Not the same here because we saw Snoke from the start. And him being gone takes out the firewall between Hux and Kylo, who JJ said were rivals and Rian had that zoom in shot at the end of TLJ for Hux. If I were going to write the next chapter (and remember JJ’s quote about ideas he had that he was now going to execute on), I’d go in that direction. They already hinted in the novelization that the FO operates like an Agatha Christie novel and now it’s down to two pieces on the chess board. And what’s been teased but hasn’t happened (and will happen) is Rey and Hux finally meet.

@snufkin

With your reasoning, do you think we may see King Prana, hinted in TFA?
When Hux and Rey meeting had been teased?
But I agree with you, a confrontation between Hux and Kylo is promised since the beginning.

Nope. KP was a throwaway line not teased at like the shark in Jaws. That’s how the Emperor and Jabba were in the OT, menace looming in the background until the final act. JJ might actually have the character turn up in IX, but he’s not filling that type of role.

And Hux meeting Rey is the FO conversations about “the Girl.” First when he gets Kylo in trouble in front of Snoke and then when he finds him in the Throne Room aftermath. Plus he had to collect Kylo under Snoke’s orders after Rey beat his a** on SKB.Rey is the embodiment of his line to Kylo about his personal interests (like Crait) interfering with the FO’s goals and mission. They’re absolutely going to meet

LadyGaufrette wrote:

Chris24601 wrote:

vaderito wrote:I was actually wrong. I misread it as JJ saying Dom return will be epic but it's Dom saying JJ return will be epic. RIP Epic Hux.

@vaderito
Where there’s life, there’s hope.

If Bendemption is the endgame, then unless the final battle is Ben fighting a psychic projection of Kylo Ren, someone other than Ben has to be the final antagonist for the climax of the film. Hux is the only FO guy other than Ben who’s had any character development and is still alive. While they COULD bring in someone brand new (it worked for the Emperor in RotJ, but we’d at least heard of him before then), I don’t think that would have anywhere near the impact.

@Chris24601



Or plot twist, it was Mitaka all along.

@LadyGaufrette

It could be either Keri Russell or the character played by Richard E Grant. Just a guess.

snufkin wrote:Nope. KP was a throwaway line not teased at like the shark in Jaws. That’s how the Emperor and Jabba were in the OT, menace looming in the background until the final act. JJ might actually have the character turn up in IX, but he’s not filling that type of role.

And Hux meeting Rey is the FO conversations about “the Girl.” First when he gets Kylo in trouble in front of Snoke and then when he finds him in the Throne Room aftermath. Plus he had to collect Kylo under Snoke’s orders after Rey beat his a** on SKB.Rey is the embodiment of his line to Kylo about his personal interests (like Crait) interfering with the FO’s goals and mission. They’re absolutely going to meet

@snufkin

I understand, but to me it doesn't mean Hux must absolutely meet Rey. I can see him organize something to kill her or hurt her, but he doesn't have to do it in person. I think of him more of an antagonist for Poe and a foil for Kylo.

@tukicarreno
When you talk of Keri Russell or the character played by Richard E Grant, you guess for a final antagonist or an opponent for Kylo?
Because the latter is possible but the former is less likely since a new character wouldn't have the sufficient emotional impact.

LadyGaufrette wrote:@tukicarreno
When you talk of Keri Russell or the character played by Richard E Grant, you guess for a final antagonist or an opponent for Kylo?
Because the latter is possible but the former is less likely since a new character wouldn't have the sufficient emotional impact.

Right. I guess I am talking about just an opponent.

I would love for Keri Russell to be a "Lady Carise Sindian" type of character- maybe someone who seemed to be on the resistance side at first but ultimately is a traitor- kind of like we theorized about Holdo before TLJ was released but this time it's real.

She could be someone secretly answering to Hux or working for her own goals.

I know everyone expect Richard E. Grant to be a FO officer or some villain and that's why I hope he is the opposite and a good guy.

Night Huntress wrote:I would love for Keri Russell to be a "Lady Carise Sindian" type of character- maybe someone who seemed to be on the resistance side at first but ultimately is a traitor- kind of like we theorized about Holdo before TLJ was released but this time it's real.

She could be someone secretly answering to Hux or working for her own goals.

I know everyone expect Richard E. Grant to be a FO officer or some villain and that's why I hope he is the opposite and a good guy.

@Night Huntress

This is exactly what I was thinking (hoping) for. I think it would definitely add an interesting layer to the Resistance, overall, and I also enjoy a good villain. It could also show, as Bloodlines kind of did, that the GFFA is still really quite full of internal conflict and not so much unified behind this idea of good vs bad (though I'd argue that no one answering the Resistance's call for help at the end of TLJ might kind of illustrate that as well).

Fingers crossed we get more details soon!

@Night Huntress @pacificwanderer Bloodline was so good and one of the best written things for the ST. It's been a major disappointment that the ST hasn't used any of its characters or plot points in the films. And yes, Keri can cold stone b**tch with the best of them, so here's hoping her old friend JJ doesn't waste her time in IX.

New tidbit from Domhnall

“I loved working with J.J. before and now it’s great that he gets to come back and complete the trilogy,” Gleeson said. “You can look forward to J.J. doing what he does so well. It will be epic, but it will also be surprising.”

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/affair-ruth-wilson-controversial-exit-1202908920/

>JJ
>Surprising

Pick one

I kid, I kid.

Clayton Sandell (the ABC correspondent who reported the news that TLJ Leia footage is being used for IX) also said that Todd Fisher told him 'there were big surprises with this movie.'

The Resistance trailer does seem to provide a hint about Poe and his concern about traitors.  I think a false impression from TLJ for the GA is that Poe learned his lesson...I almost fell for it, yet this extra material is causing me to rethink that.  This may very well be one of the plot surprises (mystery box? lol)

Must credit http://corseque.tumblr.com/post/177096721712   I changed the pasting spacing, and added the bold (A couple paragraphs how Corseque presented it.  I changed it to three)

"It’ll be kind of sad to think that the vast majority of the characters in this kids show are slated to die in TLJ. Dark…

It’s interesting that they seem to be highlighting Poe being suspicious about loyalty, when that seems to be a possible plot between him and Rey in the next movie.

I hope the series uses the First Order (I see a stormtrooper in the trailer) bc I suspect I’ll mostly be watching to know more details about how the organizations are run. And bb-8."

What will Poe think when he discovers Rey has/had a psychic bond with the man who tortured him? And does anyone know Rey was not only on the Supremacy....but fought along Kylo Ren? Because it isn't going to be easy for her to explain to a bunch of - let's face it, fanatical fighters - that she saw 'light' in him, especially post Crait.

pacificwanderer wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:I would love for Keri Russell to be a "Lady Carise Sindian" type of character- maybe someone who seemed to be on the resistance side at first but ultimately is a traitor- kind of like we theorized about Holdo before TLJ was released but this time it's real.

She could be someone secretly answering to Hux or working for her own goals.

I know everyone expect Richard E. Grant to be a FO officer or some villain and that's why I hope he is the opposite and a good guy.

@Night Huntress

This is exactly what I was thinking (hoping) for. I think it would definitely add an interesting layer to the Resistance, overall, and I also enjoy a good villain. It could also show, as Bloodlines kind of did, that the GFFA is still really quite full of internal conflict and not so much unified behind this idea of good vs bad (though I'd argue that no one answering the Resistance's call for help at the end of TLJ might kind of illustrate that as well).

Fingers crossed we get more details soon!

@pacificwanderer

Oh, I like this idea, guys! Especially that there’ll be no big force-sensitive baddie in IX - which I don’t mind at all, on the contrary, I love it cos it’s different - there could be a person representing disloyalty and treason both in the First Order (Hux) and the Resistance (Russell’s character) and that would add to the notion that cunningness can really be a bigger threat than some physical powers. There’re so many interesting possibilities the story could go if there’s indeed a traitor within the Resistance!

Night Huntress wrote:I would love for Keri Russell to be a "Lady Carise Sindian" type of character- maybe someone who seemed to be on the resistance side at first but ultimately is a traitor- kind of like we theorized about Holdo before TLJ was released but this time it's real.

She could be someone secretly answering to Hux or working for her own goals.

I know everyone expect Richard E. Grant to be a FO officer or some villain and that's why I hope he is the opposite and a good guy.

@Night Huntress

He was such a terrific bad guy in Scorsese’s The Age of Innocence: gossipy and catty and scheming. Someone for audiences to love to hate (and having read the book repeatedly, I can attest that the character was written that way by Edith Wharton.) I’m interested to see how his character turns out.

I am a big Grant fan, have been since Withnail and I, so I'm thrilled at him joining the cast.

Domhnall quote is a non-news. It's the most generic thing he could say and it's the thing that every blockbuster actor ever said for every blockbuster ever. Nothing to see here.

However, what may be interesting is that LF registered Black Spire Outpost domain and Batuu one on the same day:



If you remember, Jason Ward said in his latest podcast:

[quote] from redditor who listened to the show: "a set on lockdown - Someplace called Black? Kylo and Rey scenes at Takodana in VII is what they think they have filmed there before" [quote]

he thought Black Park but it could be Black Spire Outpost. We'll see. You can learn about BSO here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Spire_Outpost

As you know, Batuu will be the planet in the SW-themed amusement park Galaxy Edge. There are pros and cons to be made for Batuu featuring in IX. Cons: so fa,r movies invented planets rather than adopting them from non-movie sources. pros: why would they invest in building an amusement part around a planet that will never show up in the movies? It would be like Jurassic Park without dinos.

@vaderito
Good find!
True, Black Spire Outpost could just be another thing for the SW-themed amusement park, but it would be nice to see it in a movie. And it would be a very good advertisement.

"movies invented planets rather than adopting them from non-movie sources"
I believe Coruscant first appeared in the Thrawn trilogy (Legends) with a different name before George used the idea for the prequels. So keep up your hope.

@vaderito
Presuming there is something to the Poe and Finn undercover trying get an alliance with a Hutt or similar underworld type rumors; then I’d think Batuu and the Black Spire Outpost seem like they could be a likely place for that plot to take place. In this case I don’t think it’s a case of the films possibly using something from a non-movie source, but rather that the theme park is getting an early start on a location from the films for corporate synergy purposes.

The fact that the official databank refers to it as a good place to hide from the First Order (and as a hideout for smugglers and a starting point for expeditions into uncharted regions of the galaxy) I think bodes well for it to play at least a small role in Episode IX.

Chris24601 wrote:@vaderito
Presuming there is something to the Poe and Finn undercover trying get an alliance with a Hutt or similar underworld type rumors; then I’d think Batuu and the Black Spire Outpost seem like they could be a likely place for that plot to take place. In this case I don’t think it’s a case of the films possibly using something from a non-movie source, but rather that the theme park is getting an early start on a location from the films for corporate synergy purposes.

The fact that the official databank refers to it as a good place to hide from the First Order (and as a hideout for smugglers and a starting point for expeditions into uncharted regions of the galaxy) I think bodes well for it to play at least a small role in Episode IX.

@Chris24601

Agreed. Also, that Finn/Poe adventure doesn't seem awfully spoilery so they can have that planet introduced in the theme park and then shown in the movie. Should be safe.

@vaderito
Yeah, “Finn and Poe are on a mission at the smuggler’s haven of Batuu” is about as vanilla as you can get. Heck, any movie review would probably include that detail and what the mission was about as well and not even consider that a spoiler for its readers (any twists or the outcome are another matter).

It’s about as spoilery as the Pre-TFA reviews saying we meet the scavenger girl Rey on the wasteland world of Jakku. Stuff a viewer can learn just by watching the establishing scenes of a film just aren’t spoilers.

The honestly more interesting elements of the details about the world of Batuu are;

A) it was an important trading hub BEFORE hyperspace travel existed... i.e. a place dating back tens of thousands of years (as old or possibly older than even the first Jedi temple. Is there a possible connection to Rey’s learning about the early Jedi?

B) it is a sort of last port of call for crews headed out into the uncharted territories... i.e. where the First Order regrouped after the Empire fell and presumably were found by Snoke. Some rumors have suggested there’s some important First Order base that will be visited out there. Is the Resistance on Batuu looking for a possible way to get there?

C) it is a haven for smugglers; is it just the Resistance looking for allies?

D) is a place where people trying to stay off the First Order’s radar go. Is Batuu the new home of the Resistance’s secret base?

E) related to D above, the fact that the First Order is even mentioned as part of the promotion for an ongoing theme park exhibition makes me wonder if the plot of IX will even be about ending the First Order or if redeeming Ben and then perhaps Rey and Ben disappearing into the unknown territories to rebuild the Jedi. i.e. a more hopeful version of the PT’s ending; a personal victory for Rey and Ben (not to mention Han and Leia), but one that leaves a powerful enemy faction in place for future films and other series to have available (one of the main reasons I think both Anthologies were set during the Imperial period is the easy enemy presence).

@Chris24601 Apaprently, Jason said that Black Park set is in the lockdown so Black Spire Outpost is not the possible reference, though they could still feature Batuu in the movie.

That said, continuing our speculation, I'm wondering if the movie has enough time to do anything with Unknown regions? It seems to me that UR is a carrot they dangle in front of die-hard fans who read books but have no desire to commit to it and doubtful they'll introduce it in the last movie. Even if IX doesn't prove to be the last Saga movie in the long run.

Reddit rumor had Finn, Poe and Rose seek alliance with the Crime Cartel and attending a feast similar to Temple of Doom. You can see details here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/8ppr8l/new_info_on_a_sequence_in_ep_ix/

I don't know how reliable this is, but I thought I should post it anyway:
J.J. ABRAMS’ ‘STAR WARS: EPISODE IX’ WILL COMPLETE PRINCIPAL PHOTOGRAPHY BY FEBRUARY
Source:https://desertcirce.tumblr.com/post/177204448776/jj-abrams-star-wars-episode-ix-will-complete

Moonlight13 wrote:I don't know how reliable this is, but I thought I should post it anyway:
J.J. ABRAMS’ ‘STAR WARS: EPISODE IX’ WILL COMPLETE PRINCIPAL PHOTOGRAPHY BY FEBRUARY
Source:https://desertcirce.tumblr.com/post/177204448776/jj-abrams-star-wars-episode-ix-will-complete

@Moonlight13

That's a potentially tight turnaround, and even TLJ began post-production while still filming. I was wondering how on earth they would finish in like 4-4.5 months by year's end. Good to know they probably aren't going to rush the filming like they did with Solo.

They reported the BR 2049 art director joining IX before the trades got a hold of it. They have a solid track record. That is a long shoot (longer than TLJ, but shorter than TFA which had the Harrison Ford injury to factor in too). Wonder how long the film will be? Being the last film of the saga could mean there's a bigger scale to the story, more loose ends to tie up etc etc. Could be a variety of things. They seem to start VFX pretty early and concurrent with filming nowadays, so I don't think that will be too much of an issue. They'll almost certainly come back for reshoots as well.

LadyGaufrette wrote:

Chris24601 wrote:

vaderito wrote:I was actually wrong. I misread it as JJ saying Dom return will be epic but it's Dom saying JJ return will be epic. RIP Epic Hux.

@vaderito
Where there’s life, there’s hope.

If Bendemption is the endgame, then unless the final battle is Ben fighting a psychic projection of Kylo Ren, someone other than Ben has to be the final antagonist for the climax of the film. Hux is the only FO guy other than Ben who’s had any character development and is still alive. While they COULD bring in someone brand new (it worked for the Emperor in RotJ, but we’d at least heard of him before then), I don’t think that would have anywhere near the impact.

@Chris24601



Or plot twist, it was Mitaka all along.

@LadyGaufrette

Traditionally there's two types of antagonist in comic book and super powered stories:  Mastermind villians and dark doppelganger.  There are variations among them but generally most baddies fall into one of the two with a few who are both like Dr. Doom, Bane, Reverse Flash, Darth Vader etc, etc.  But even then they could be placed into one category.

Hux is more of an intellectual threat to Ben but he is not a physical one; just watch how Ben manhandled him with the force At the end of TLJ.  Hux is like Lex Luthor, Kilgore, Kingpin or Mr. Glass.  In a toe to toe brawl they would lose but what makes them dangerous, to our heroes is they are always one step ahead of them and finds emotional ways to torment the good guys.  Kilmonger using his powers to put people that Jessica Jones cares about is a perfect example.  She could snap him in half in a tick but if she did he would make 15 different people kill themselves or start a riot so she has to rely on things other than her powers to defeat him. Masterminds are meant to show the moral struggles of their opponents.

I wouldn't be surprised if a new character who is equally powerful as Kylo with the force is introduced to challenge Ben and be his physical counterpart and dark doppelganger:  Iron Monger to Iron Man, Abomination to Hulk, Kaecilius to Dr. Strange, Kevin Crumb/The Horde to David Dunn, General Zod to Superman.  Physically they can match up with the protagonist and can best them in a head on duel.  Generally they serve to show the protagonists heart, grit and resolve.