ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion - 1

bela.mesecina wrote:

Gemini wrote:The biggest problem with Rey Random is that it leaves a huge plot hole in the "why she found the sabre and gave it to Luke" scenes. The whole purpose of her getting that lightsaber was to get it to Luke...and the moment where she does this has a huge emotional weight to it for both him and her, which IMO cannot be denied. If she was a random, why are they both nearly crying when she hands this to Luke?

I understand that swords call out to randoms all the time in stories but the way it was presented to us in the last scene can only indicate two things really...she is a Kenobi or a Skywalker. Simply because of the emotional weight of that scene.

@Gemini

Maybe because he's destined to be her teacher? Like Ezra/Kanan (Rebels..cannon) Ezra finds Kanan's lightsaber and gives it to him..later Kanan becomes his teacher...even the scene itself looks similar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNv3mxkaiY

@bela.mesecina

Also, how rey gets the saber and how obi wan gets the saber are pretty similar

Gemini wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:

Gemini wrote:The biggest problem with Rey Random is that it leaves a huge plot hole in the "why she found the sabre and gave it to Luke" scenes. The whole purpose of her getting that lightsaber was to get it to Luke...and the moment where she does this has a huge emotional weight to it for both him and her, which IMO cannot be denied. If she was a random, why are they both nearly crying when she hands this to Luke?

I understand that swords call out to randoms all the time in stories but the way it was presented to us in the last scene can only indicate two things really...she is a Kenobi or a Skywalker. Simply because of the emotional weight of that scene.

@Gemini

Maybe because he's destined to be her teacher? Like Ezra/Kanan (Rebels..cannon) Ezra finds Kanan's lightsaber and gives it to him..later Kanan becomes his teacher...even the scene itself looks similar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNv3mxkaiY

@bela.mesecina

Also, how rey gets the saber and how obi wan gets the saber are pretty similar

@Gemini
Kenobi trained Skywalker, not it's time for Skywalker to train Kenobi

bela.mesecina wrote:

Gemini wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:

Gemini wrote:The biggest problem with Rey Random is that it leaves a huge plot hole in the "why she found the sabre and gave it to Luke" scenes. The whole purpose of her getting that lightsaber was to get it to Luke...and the moment where she does this has a huge emotional weight to it for both him and her, which IMO cannot be denied. If she was a random, why are they both nearly crying when she hands this to Luke?

I understand that swords call out to randoms all the time in stories but the way it was presented to us in the last scene can only indicate two things really...she is a Kenobi or a Skywalker. Simply because of the emotional weight of that scene.

@Gemini

Maybe because he's destined to be her teacher? Like Ezra/Kanan (Rebels..cannon) Ezra finds Kanan's lightsaber and gives it to him..later Kanan becomes his teacher...even the scene itself looks similar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNv3mxkaiY

@bela.mesecina

Also, how rey gets the saber and how obi wan gets the saber are pretty similar

@Gemini
Kenobi trained Skywalker, not it's time for Skywalker to train Kenobi

@bela.mesecina

Rey Kenobi is too poetic, I'm gonna cry like a bi**h

Maria Antonietta wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:

Gemini wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:

Gemini wrote:The biggest problem with Rey Random is that it leaves a huge plot hole in the "why she found the sabre and gave it to Luke" scenes. The whole purpose of her getting that lightsaber was to get it to Luke...and the moment where she does this has a huge emotional weight to it for both him and her, which IMO cannot be denied. If she was a random, why are they both nearly crying when she hands this to Luke?

I understand that swords call out to randoms all the time in stories but the way it was presented to us in the last scene can only indicate two things really...she is a Kenobi or a Skywalker. Simply because of the emotional weight of that scene.

@Gemini

Maybe because he's destined to be her teacher? Like Ezra/Kanan (Rebels..cannon) Ezra finds Kanan's lightsaber and gives it to him..later Kanan becomes his teacher...even the scene itself looks similar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNv3mxkaiY

@bela.mesecina

Also, how rey gets the saber and how obi wan gets the saber are pretty similar

@Gemini
Kenobi trained Skywalker, not it's time for Skywalker to train Kenobi

@bela.mesecina

Rey Kenobi is too poetic, I'm gonna cry like a bi**h

@Maria Antonietta

Oh god me too! That is the one thing that Rey Palpatine/Random can't deliver.

Speaking of obi-wan (sorry, if this is off-topic): Ewan McGregor is in London right now and will appear on tonight's Graham Norton Show .

spacebaby45678 wrote:I understand the dramatic beauty of Rey having dark origins or Rey Palpatine, however when you look at Ring Composition Rey Palpatine  does not have an attractive character arc. Also, considering the Bloodlines book that is about to drop where we know part of the plot line is Leia facing the consequences of being Darth Vadars daughter, there is definitely a backlash.

Why would the ST Universe want a Rey Palpatine & Ben Darth Vader JR. Solo hook up or even progeny? The dark side lineage would be too strong for any potential descendants to handle.

@spacebaby45678
I can't help but feel that one of the major themes in this Trilogy is "origins aren't everything". Darkness can be born from Light, and Light can be born from Darkness.

I don't fully agree that Rey having something to do with Palpatine would be unfavourable to Ring Composition. It's extremely poetic no matter how I look at it. Palpatine seduced Anakin to the Dark Side, and two generations later, Palpatine's descendent can lead Anakin's descendent to the Light. That's just as poetic as Rey Kenobi in my opinion, and it really drives home the idea that Dark and Light are not familial traits, that people are not defined by their origins, but by their choices. It leaves us with a beautiful status-quo, tying the Dark and Light together in a way that is harmonious rather than chaotic.

I also like the theme of seduction. Rey would be naturally attracted to Ren's Darkness, just as Ren is naturally attracted to Rey's Light, but together they can find balance.

I like Rey Kenobi and Rey Dark Side equally, but they're different stories. Both favour Ring Composition, and both could be very compelling.

We also have to remember that Ring Composition isn't everything. The writers aren't just going to rely on it for the whole story.

Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I understand the dramatic beauty of Rey having dark origins or Rey Palpatine, however when you look at Ring Composition Rey Palpatine  does not have an attractive character arc. Also, considering the Bloodlines book that is about to drop where we know part of the plot line is Leia facing the consequences of being Darth Vadars daughter, there is definitely a backlash.

Why would the ST Universe want a Rey Palpatine & Ben Darth Vader JR. Solo hook up or even progeny? The dark side lineage would be too strong for any potential descendants to handle.

@spacebaby45678
I can't help but feel that one of the major themes in this Trilogy is "origins aren't everything". Darkness can be born from Light, and Light can be born from Darkness.

I don't fully agree that Rey having something to do with Palpatine would be unfavourable to Ring Composition. It's extremely poetic no matter how I look at it. Palpatine seduced Anakin to the Dark Side, and two generations later, Palpatine's descendent can lead Anakin's descendent to the Light. That's just as poetic as Rey Kenobi in my opinion, and it really drives home the idea that Dark and Light are not familial traits, that people are not defined by their origins, but by their choices. It leaves us with a beautiful status-quo, tying the Dark and Light together in a way that is harmonious rather than chaotic.

I also like the theme of seduction. Rey would be naturally attracted to Ren's Darkness, just as Ren is naturally attracted to Rey's Light, but together they can find balance.

I like Rey Kenobi and Rey Dark Side equally, but they're different stories. Both favour Ring Composition, and both could be very compelling.

We also have to remember that Ring Composition isn't everything. The writers aren't just going to rely on it for the whole story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Well said. That's how I feel sometimes, I'm torn between these two theories (Kenobi/Palpatine or another darksider) However, I don't think she is both.

Rey being a descendant of a DarkSider would also support the Yin/Yang theory.

Ok, I just got back from a girls night with some of my friends. Now, all of them have watched TFA at least three times with their kids. All of them now believe she is not related to Luke after watching the movie multiple times. They do hope for a Kenobi or Random lineage though...which I am fine with anything as long as she is not a Skywalker.
I feel that now that the movie can be watched over and over now maybe more people will change their minds about the parentage of Rey.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I understand the dramatic beauty of Rey having dark origins or Rey Palpatine, however when you look at Ring Composition Rey Palpatine  does not have an attractive character arc. Also, considering the Bloodlines book that is about to drop where we know part of the plot line is Leia facing the consequences of being Darth Vadars daughter, there is definitely a backlash.

Why would the ST Universe want a Rey Palpatine & Ben Darth Vader JR. Solo hook up or even progeny? The dark side lineage would be too strong for any potential descendants to handle.

@spacebaby45678
I can't help but feel that one of the major themes in this Trilogy is "origins aren't everything". Darkness can be born from Light, and Light can be born from Darkness.

I don't fully agree that Rey having something to do with Palpatine would be unfavourable to Ring Composition. It's extremely poetic no matter how I look at it. Palpatine seduced Anakin to the Dark Side, and two generations later, Palpatine's descendent can lead Anakin's descendent to the Light. That's just as poetic as Rey Kenobi in my opinion, and it really drives home the idea that Dark and Light are not familial traits, that people are not defined by their origins, but by their choices. It leaves us with a beautiful status-quo, tying the Dark and Light together in a way that is harmonious rather than chaotic.

I also like the theme of seduction. Rey would be naturally attracted to Ren's Darkness, just as Ren is naturally attracted to Rey's Light, but together they can find balance.

I like Rey Kenobi and Rey Dark Side equally, but they're different stories. Both favour Ring Composition, and both could be very compelling.

We also have to remember that Ring Composition isn't everything. The writers aren't just going to rely on it for the whole story.

Okay, I still want her to be Rey Kenobi but, after reading your argument, I could dig Rey Palpatine, if they go that way.  So far it would be the next best alternative over Rey Random.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm quite torn I agree with you but also see so much kenobi stuff that I can't ignore it lol.

Ren is born from the light side which is leia and Han  but also the dark side because of Vader.

Which leads me to believe that Rey has both light and dark l think kenobi and dark origins, there's s lot which could have happened with that side of things because kenobi is a mystery. I think there's a lot more to his isolation which they may explore in the obi wan movie..

The light and dark in ren made him so appealing to snoke not just the light

Maria Antonietta wrote:Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

@Maria Antonietta

^^^^This!

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

@Maria Antonietta

^^^^This!

@spacebaby45678

But don't fall in the same trap as the Rey Skywalker supporters, guys. I find Rey Kenobi more likely than Rey Skywalker, but those are all parallels, just like the Luke parallels.

The only thing I think implies a bit more is that Obi-Wan speaks to her directly in the vision. But then, a Rey Skywalker supporter might counter that with "well, Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber 'speaks' to Rey, and Obi-Wan was their teacher, so there!"

I just don't think there are enough real clues in the film to deduce anything about her parentage.

I wrote this somewhere else :

From the Force Awakens artbook (written by Phil Szostak-- no idea who he is lol):

"The Force Awakens director JJ Abrahms and screenwriters Michael Arndt and Lawrence Kasdan recognized that a new 'nobody' was needed. Young film audiences would need fresh and relatable heroes to emulate --- and those heroes would have their own paths to follow. Just as Obi Wan evolved from General of the Clone Wars to "Old Ben" Kenobi, wise father figure to young Luke Skywalker, so too would Luke, Han and Leia now function as archetypal guides to the next generation."

I think kylo's reasons for turning have to do with his own abandonment issues, having so much power and not knowing how to deal with them, and Snoke. I don't really see Vader as a dark side origin, because Anakin came first and then turned, a light sider who was also seduced and then came back. It's one thing if Vader was always evil, well that's how I see it. As Lor San said, his origins are from the light. It would be interesting if Rey's origins were purely, dark/evil whatever.

I keep saying this lol, but it reminds me soo much of East of Eden. Two sons (twins) Cal and Aron have a father Adam who is naively good, and a mother who is actually pure evil. Horrible person! It's interesting because now they both have one parent good, one evil, who who will they be? Aron is very good, too good, perfection. His father adores him. Cal is quite dark, lonely, but not evil I'd say. He is very uncertain of himself. I think Aron decided to become a priest, but then once Cal tricked him into learning their mother (who abandoned them at birth and shot their father while leaving) was actually the head of the local brothel, Aron's world turned upside down. It created chaos in the house, this revelation. When someone so good finds out their lineage has something dark, it has potential to ruin. I would like to see Rey struggle like this.

Cal also felt guilty for bringing Aron to their mother, so I would also like Kylo to struggle with what is good vs bad, and realizing he doesn't want Rey to do down the path he did. It makes sense also from a narrative POV, so far she has done everything Ben Solo probably did. Now let's see when she learns her past isn't the best and Snoke takes advantage of that weakness. Will she still stay good girl? Would be highly unrealistic if she was.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

@Maria Antonietta

^^^^This!

@spacebaby45678

But don't fall in the same trap as the Rey Skywalker supporters, guys. I find Rey Kenobi more likely than Rey Skywalker, but those are all parallels, just like the Luke parallels.

The only thing I think implies a bit more is that Obi-Wan speaks to her directly in the vision. But then, a Rey Skywalker supporter might counter that with "well, Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber 'speaks' to Rey, and Obi-Wan was their teacher, so there!"

I just don't think there are enough real clues in the film to deduce anything about her parentage.

@Darth Dingbat

They will accept it or not, who cares really xD

New Nobody? Rey Random? Rey Palpatine,

Then lets give Rey a new myth, random anything and palpatine parallels. Instead, the movie ( text) is telling us something else.

They say new "nobody" in commas because she appears to be a no one, come from nothing but that doesn't mean she is actually a nobody, things point to her being a someone.

Luke was portrayed as a no one so was anakin when we first meet him

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

@Maria Antonietta

^^^^This!

@spacebaby45678

But don't fall in the same trap as the Rey Skywalker supporters, guys. I find Rey Kenobi more likely than Rey Skywalker, but those are all parallels, just like the Luke parallels.

The only thing I think implies a bit more is that Obi-Wan speaks to her directly in the vision. But then, a Rey Skywalker supporter might counter that with "well, Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber 'speaks' to Rey, and Obi-Wan was their teacher, so there!"

I just don't think there are enough real clues in the film to deduce anything about her parentage.

The vision is not the most important part, the most important part is the ending and what it implies
@Darth Dingbat

Gemini wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

@Maria Antonietta

^^^^This!

@spacebaby45678

But don't fall in the same trap as the Rey Skywalker supporters, guys. I find Rey Kenobi more likely than Rey Skywalker, but those are all parallels, just like the Luke parallels.

The only thing I think implies a bit more is that Obi-Wan speaks to her directly in the vision. But then, a Rey Skywalker supporter might counter that with "well, Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber 'speaks' to Rey, and Obi-Wan was their teacher, so there!"

I just don't think there are enough real clues in the film to deduce anything about her parentage.

The vision is not the most important part, the most important part is the ending and what it implies
@Darth Dingbat

@Gemini

Well, you're right that it "rhymes" - and I'm not anti-Kenobi by any means. I'd be thrilled if Rey were a Kenobi, as long as she's not a Skywalker

But I still don't think these parallels and callbacks count as evidence, as such. Intriguing possibilities, certainly, but not real evidence.

It is fitting and poetic that Obi Wan says these are your first steps to rey. Obi Wan takes away the saber from Anakin, as he was not worthy of it anymore. Then he was the saber keeper for years, handing it off to Luke, the one to bring Anakin back. Now Obi Wan is handing it off to Rey. A brother's keep sort of thing going on.

I think Rey nobody/random is just about semantics. We all knows she will not be random by the end. She will turn out to be something huge. But it is impossible to tell how. The most we can infer is she may have dark side (as one theory). She may have dark and light who knows.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Well, with all these Kenobi stuff in the movie, I will take it bad if she's descendant of someone else. Don't put solitude, coruscan accent, Jedi mind trick, climbing on s**t to avoid stormtroopers, Mustafar on the snow, last scene. I'd feel like receiving a slap

@Maria Antonietta

^^^^This!

@spacebaby45678

But don't fall in the same trap as the Rey Skywalker supporters, guys. I find Rey Kenobi more likely than Rey Skywalker, but those are all parallels, just like the Luke parallels.

The only thing I think implies a bit more is that Obi-Wan speaks to her directly in the vision. But then, a Rey Skywalker supporter might counter that with "well, Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber 'speaks' to Rey, and Obi-Wan was their teacher, so there!"

I just don't think there are enough real clues in the film to deduce anything about her parentage.

The vision is not the most important part, the most important part is the ending and what it implies
@Darth Dingbat

@Gemini

Well, you're right that it "rhymes" - and I'm not anti-Kenobi by any means. I'd be thrilled if Rey were a Kenobi, as long as she's not a Skywalker

But I still don't think these parallels and callbacks count as evidence, as such. Intriguing possibilities, certainly, but not real evidence.

@Darth Dingbat

Time will tell

I know I am going to sound like an anti, but believe I am not. - I am not having a problem with Rey being a Kenobi (or Palpatine)...moreover it would be very, very cool, but I just do not see a callback as evidence. (It is the very same approach in debunking of Rey Skylwalker theory).
I see all of it as callbacks or hommage to OT used by J.J.

The problem with speculating about Rey coming from a legacy family(Skywalker,Kenobi,Solo)is that there are so many qualities from all all of the OT characters that it's hard to say she's one of the other for certain.She's a good pilot and mechanic like Luke but she lives alone in a desert and uses mind tricks like Obi Wan yet she also shares certain characteristics with Han.See what I mean?I don't know if they made Rey combination of all of them because they wanted to make sure she was well received by the audience or they're using it as a red herring it it's a combination of both but they've really drugged themselves into a hole if you ask me.If Rey's revealed not to be a Skywalker(Which 99% she isn't and as we are well aware that's the most popular theory out there) or Kenobi (though I don't think it will be such a huge deal like it would be with Rey Skywalker since it's already treated as cannon by many)there will inevitably be the fandom outcry asking  "Why did you create those parallels between her and Luke/Obi Wan then?"
I certainly wouldn't want to be in their place.That's why they should have revealed who Rey is in TFA  when they had the chance.

CienaRee wrote:The problem with speculating about Rey coming from a legacy family(Skywalker,Kenobi,Solo)is that there are so many qualities from all all of the OT characters that it's hard to say she's one of the other for certain.She's a good pilot and mechanic like Luke but she lives alone in a desert and uses mind tricks like Obi Wan yet she also shares certain characteristics with Han.See what I mean?I don't know if they made Rey combination of all of them because they wanted to make sure she was well received by the audience or they're using it as a red herring it it's a combination of both but they've really drugged themselves into a hole if you ask me.If Rey's revealed not to be a Skywalker(Which 99% she isn't and as we are well aware that's the most popular theory out there) or Kenobi (though I don't think it will be such a huge deal like it would be with Rey Skywalker since it's already treated as cannon by many)there will inevitably be the fandom outcry asking  "Why did you create those parallels between her and Luke/Obi Wan then?"
I certainly wouldn't want to be in their place.That's why they should have revealed who Rey is in TFA  when they had the chance.

@CienaRee

I know what you mean, I totally 100% agree with you. At first it's confusing, so it's fair to debunk all the c**p theories ASAP in the next chapter

CienaRee wrote:The problem with speculating about Rey coming from a legacy family(Skywalker,Kenobi,Solo)is that there are so many qualities from all all of the OT characters that it's hard to say she's one of the other for certain.She's a good pilot and mechanic like Luke but she lives alone in a desert and uses mind tricks like Obi Wan yet she also shares certain characteristics with Han.See what I mean?I don't know if they made Rey combination of all of them because they wanted to make sure she was well received by the audience or they're using it as a red herring it it's a combination of both but they've really drugged themselves into a hole if you ask me.If Rey's revealed not to be a Skywalker(Which 99% she isn't and as we are well aware that's the most popular theory out there) or Kenobi (though I don't think it will be such a huge deal like it would be with Rey Skywalker since it's already treated as cannon by many)there will inevitably be the fandom outcry asking  "Why did you create those parallels between her and Luke/Obi Wan then?"
I certainly wouldn't want to be in their place.That's why they should have revealed who Rey is in TFA  when they had the chance.

@CienaRee

Agreed 100%.
There are plenty of more important questions raised after TFA than Rey s lineage IMO (Snoke, Knights of Ren, Jedi Temple massacre, the originis of the conflict vs. First order), only if she is not related somehow to all the other things - but I just can not see how she could be concerning the timeline.