ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion - 1

By the way, the stuntman in the speeder has the same hairstyle as Benicio has been sporting lately



I also realised that BDT has the same green-brown eye colour as Daisy...

(The way I keep going about this, I think King Prana needs a thread of his own soon...)

What about other pictures?



I don't know about you, but I sense a strong Eyes Wide Shut type of thing... Compare:

Did we discuss king prana somewhere? I don't remember. Enlight me, please

Basically the aliens FinnRey's are hoping Tran will turn out to be. Even though her stunt-double is clearly human.

@Jozie: don't forget about the boat party scenes! (photos from the starwarsdubrovnik.com site)





Sashes again, this time white. Does everybody on this planet dress in black and white?

Interesting comparison with Eyes Wide Shut... I've seen many theorise that the characters here might belong to some sinister elite cult, based on the way they dress.

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Never forget Rey Skywalker logic:



Never mind the fact that Padme became a Skywalker through marriage, and Rey is confirmed not to be one.

@frolickingfizzgig

Yeah I guess they'll have to settle for her becoming a Solo...by marriage.

@Jozie I also was reminded of Eyes Wide Shut. Looking forward to it.

@Darth Dingbat BDT needs his own thread, on the other hand, King Prana might not be BDT and might need his on thread, on the other hand, popular parentage theories don't have their threads either. Wait... Do I have three hands? Anyways, I don't know.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Never forget Rey Skywalker logic:



Never mind the fact that Padme became a Skywalker through marriage, and Rey is confirmed not to be one.

@FrolickingFizzgig

::sigh:: The insistence that appearance, clothing, and hair suggest a genetic relationship baffles me. It's like people don't realize that the creators of film franchises have aesthetics that they prefer to stick with, which extend to how they style (and perhaps even cast!) the characters.

Force22 wrote:
@Darth Dingbat BDT needs his own thread, on the other hand, King Prana might not be BDT and might need his on thread, on the other hand, popular parentage theories don't have their threads either. Wait... Do I have three hands? Anyways, I don't know.

@Force22

That's true... I was just thinking because a lot of this conversation re: Prana was about who he is, the meaning of his name, whether he's going to be in the films at all, whether BDT is playing him, pictures of the Dubrovnik set, speculation about the characters on the set based on what they were wearing, etc. - none of which really has to do with Rey's parentage, as such...

Here are some interesting quotes about prana:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Prana

Interesting tidbit: Prana is also identified with Indra, whose daughter Devasena marries Kartikeya, the celibate warrior son of Shiva, who was born for the purpose of defeating a terrible demon

Darth Dementor wrote:@frolickingfizzgig

Yeah I guess they'll have to settle for her becoming a Solo...by marriage.

@Darth Dementor

Skywalker-Solo....
now I come to think of it...even if I have nothing against the Rey Kenobi-Skywalker-Solo, maybe her being Rey Random...or just Rey, that is, is actually better...that way she can marry into her new name Rey Skywalker-Solo and not have 3 last names

Darth Dingbat wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:@Force22

Like Rathtars for example .

@AppleCrumble122

And space horses

@Darth Dingbat

Dingle....they are not space horses....they are faviars...trust me I know...we Croats have good intel...from insiders

I watched TFA for the first time after 3 months. It's kind of interesting after so much dissecting every scene to watch it again.

Honestly, I do understand why so many people think she is a Skywalker. I also thought so until she met with Kylo and then I started being all confused about the strange chemistry between the 2 and Rey Skywalker not being confirmed at the end of TFA or any time in between the force back and the end.

There is of course the lightsaber calling to Rey and then flying to her which is often mentioned as solid proof, even though there are examples in canon stories of lightsabers calling to non blood-related characters and flying to their hands. I always saw the Force as being blind and choosing the person that suits the greater scheme so that whole lightsaber only picking family-related people was never a proof for me. "Here are the rules about lightsabers" -> me: yawn.

But Maz' words after the force back is painfully pointing to her being a Skywalker "It was Luke's and his father's before and now it's calling to you". I also got at that moment that she is a Skywalker, but then Maz does not confirm it, no one ever confirms it and the movie starts going in another direction. To me there is a clear cut at that moment. Until then it was ANH 2.0 but then it started being a new journey.

There are a lot of parallels between Rey and Luke. And that is exactly the problem imo. There are way too many especially in the first part of the movie (ANH 2.0). I think they wanted to make her the new Luke, but that does not mean she is his daughter. That just means she is the new protagonist of the story. She fits what the Force needs to make things happen.

I am sure most of it has already been said, but I wanted to share my feeling seeing TFA again after 3 months (with "fresh" eyes).

SanghaRen wrote:I watched TFA for the first time after 3 months. It's kind of interesting after so much dissecting every scene to watch it again.

Honestly, I do understand why so many people think she is a Skywalker. I also thought so until she met with Kylo and then I started being all confused about the strange chemistry between the 2 and Rey Skywalker not being confirmed at the end of TFA or any time in between the force back and the end.

There is of course the lightsaber calling to Rey and then flying to her which is often mentioned as solid proof, even though there are examples in canon stories of lightsabers calling to non blood-related characters and flying to their hands. I always saw the Force as being blind and choosing the person that suits the greater scheme so that whole lightsaber only picking family-related people was never a proof for me. "Here are the rules about lightsabers" -> me: yawn.

But Maz' words after the force back is painfully pointing to her being a Skywalker "It was Luke's and his father's before and now it's calling to you". I also got at that moment that she is a Skywalker, but then Maz does not confirm it, no one ever confirms it and the movie starts going in another direction. To me there is a clear cut at that moment. Until then it was ANH 2.0 but then it started being a new journey.

There are a lot of parallels between Rey and Luke. And that is exactly the problem imo. There are way too many especially in the first part of the movie (ANH 2.0). I think they wanted to make her the new Luke, but that does not mean she is his daughter. That just means she is the new protagonist of the story. She fits what the Force needs to make things happen.

I am sure most of it has already been said, but I wanted to share my feeling seeing TFA again after 3 months (with "fresh" eyes).

@SanghaRen

I get what you're saying and I do agree with you.If you don't care to dig in deeper into you would probably take the visual parallels and the lightsaber as proof that Rey's a Skywalker.For the fans in this site up doesn't make sense from a narrative POV and also Pablo's tweets who debunk strong Rey Skywalker evidence.I think of me the parallels between Luke and Rey are much more visual than anything.Yes,they both grew up on a sand planet but Luke was raised by his loving subtle and uncle while Rey had to take care of herself.Rey also spend years learning how to Pilate things while it came naturally for Luke.I think more fair comparisons would be between Anakin and Rey and even then Anakin I think had it better than Rey in the sense that he and his mother and he didn't spend nearly as much time in Tatooine being a slave in comparison to Rey.
In both Luke and Anakin's cases they knew what they wanted even if they had moments of doubt and didn't want to live their families.Rey however is a Mystery box.Beyond waiting for her family we have no idea about her dreams and goals or if she necessarily have ones.Her rejecting the lightsaber and running away us played in a much more dramatic way than for example Luke refusing to go with Obi Wan to Alderaan.Rey also feels much more of an outsider amongst the Resistance in contrast to Luke who joined and fought for the Rebellion.Even at the end of the movie we have no idea whether Rey wants to become a Jedi or not or she simply goes to try and bring Luke back.
I really hope Rey doesn't become another Luke.I know that was their intention for TFA but we've a,ready watched Luke and his journey let's be a little more creative with Rey otherwise it would be boring .

SanghaRen wrote:But Maz' words after the force back is painfully pointing to her being a Skywalker "It was Luke's and his father's before and now it's calling to you". I also got at that moment that she is a Skywalker, but then Maz does not confirm it, no one ever confirms it and the movie starts going in another direction.

Yeah, I was also thinking about that. But I can totally see the lightsaber calling to Rey because SHE WILL become a part of that family and because she will be vital in bringing Ben back. As if Ben's absence made the lightsaber call to a person who is most likely to return it to its rightful owner - the third generation Skywalker (add to that the line "This lightsaber... it belongs to me"). Maz seems to me like a fairy godmother a little bit, telling Rey it's okay to stop waiting for those who had left her, "unfreezing" her from her childish life (there was a meta about it I think) and helping out in embracing what lies ahead ("the belonging you seek..." line). Kind of a blessing.
And when you think about junior novelization and Maz's line "Rey is where she needs to be" when she meets Kylo in the forest, it really becomes clear

@CineaRee

Oh, I hear you. I think that the new Luke thing was really in the first part of the movie and was a way to make her likable to old fans. They would have this familiar and nostalgic feeling and get sucked into the story. To me the force back was really the cut in the movie. And then the Luke parallels stopped and it was about Rey as Rey *cough, and her connection with Kylo, cough* That is what I really got through that first home viewing and trying to look at it without the Kylo-fan goggles.

Not everyone will dig deeper. So visual clues will be the ones taken at face value. And then you get a Rey Skywalker effect. I watched the PT only once and the OT several times. I can only assume that there are a lot of people like me out there. I am more a candidate to obsession over a movie though so I do look into it deeper. But most people entered the theater with Skywalker-goggles.

Yes, Rey is still a mystery box. I have the feeling she is not going to Luke to train as a Jedi. In the novelization when Leia and Rey say goobye, it sounds more like they have some sort of plan. I cannot remember what is being said, but I did not read it as she is going off for months of training. Would have to find it again. But then it's also not in the movie. Still, I would not be surprised if the training session most people expect, does not take place. At least not at the beginning of VIII.

@SanghaRen,yup everyone expects Rey to train with Luke because if ESB but his bring would it be if we spend an hour watching Luke train Rey.It would be too much like Luke and Yoda for my taste.K a,so don't think they threw the lone about Kylo wanting to be Rey's teacher randomly.

All reasons why Reywalker doesn't work (feel free to add your findings):

It's terrible story telling

We keep hearing, from Luke's closest family,  that Luke vanished because he was training Next Generation of Jedi, that dream was destroyed, he felt responsible and walked away from it all. No mention of family tragedy (that isn't about Naughty Nephew) such as losing a wife and/or daughter as the reason for leaving the galaxy. if such big motivator was kept a secret than it's a terrible writing. terrible.

The story isn't about Luke

JJ said in the documentary that the story isn't about Luke and OT characters. Therefore, how Rey relates to Luke is not as important as how Rey relates to Kylo Ren. They are main protagonist and main antagonist. In Luke-centric view, reveal that he is Rey's father is a big deal. However, in that view, hero/villain are reduced to weak "first cousins" relation which doesn't make narrative sense because it plays like a parody of Father/Son dynamics from OT.

Luke has a well defined role that's been as old as mankind

Luke is a mentor. This is one of the strongest, most beloved archetypes in story-telling and it's almost exclusively separated from familial relationship. The point of a mentor is that he is a father figure but not a father to his protege. There's a reason for that. Father figure who teaches is objective. That's the essence of mentor-ship. Parents are not objective which is why this role is always separate from real parents. Mentor tells the student when he/she is wrong/right without having parental goggles. Yet, at the same time, he helps the student mature like a parent would. hence father figure but not a father.

Rey has already found a father

"And Han Solo...you think of him as a father you never had." It doesn't make sense, from narrative POV, to find a father...and again...and again. Rey found a father...and a mother ("Mother's hug" - from novelization)...and a brother (Finn). It's about leaving behind "whoever you're waiting for are not coming back" and finding a new family.

Takes way too much exposition

Rey was abandoned on jakku, given to awful Unkar Plutt. She was not placed in a loving family with Larses or Organas. That requires tons of explanation to make any OT character who a) is involved in such terrible thing, b) knew that girl existed but didn't do anything to find her, c) somehow didn't know she existed/couldn't feel she's alive, etc even though their FS makes them feel each other and even non-FS characters, look even remotely good. On top of that, we have to deal with explaining Luke's baby mama. The horror, the horror.

There's already a huge Skywalker family drama, do we need another in the same trilogy?

What happened to Hanleia son is the family drama of the piece. Parents failed, uncle failed. Son/nephew turned bad, killed his father. It's a tragedy. With all that still unanswered in full detail, who needs another Skywalker family drama explaining why Luke's kid was dumped? Luke's kid that nobody ever mentions in the movie cause all talk is about son/nephew.

What happened with Ben is a tragedy for Luke. Burdening him with another - he dumped his kid/someone dumped his kid/he didn't know his kid was alive/he didn't know he had a kid - makes zero sense narratively. It only make sense to those who think that father/daughter reunion would be a happy one.  

It's a story about discovery

Rey discovers all those legends and that she can hold her own with them. And they accept her for that. Han and Leia accept her as a  daughter. Luke will accept her his student. Kylo/Ben is in love with her. Having her discover that she is related to legends by blood undermines the point that everyman/everywoman can become a legend too.

SW is a fairytale about coming of age

No coming of age story has the heroine find a father who mentors her. That's not coming of age. Coming of age either has son defeat father somehow (shows that he is now mature to go on his own) or daughter defeat mother in the same way or girl defeats the beast (young man of her age). mentor is just a step towards achieving the goal in one of those 3 scenarios, whichever it is. Which is why mentor is never a father. mentor = step. Defeating father/mother/beast = goal that mentorship prepares for

I would add one thing to "the story isn't about Luke". In OT the reveal of Darth Vader was a turning point for Luke and for the story because they had to fight each other . Same thing in TFA, the reveal of Han Solo as Kylo's father is crucial for the story and the main source of drama, because they have to fight each other. Making Luke Rey's father has none of that.

Jozie wrote:I would add one thing to "the story isn't about Luke". In OT the reveal of Darth Vader was a turning point for Luke and for the story because they had to fight each other . Same thing in TFA, the reveal of Han Solo as Kylo's father is crucial for the story and the main source of drama, because they have to fight each other. Making Luke Rey's father has none of that.

@Jozie

But she'll have to fight her first cousin! Drama!

Brilliant point!

SanghaRen wrote:@CineaRee

Oh, I hear you. I think that the new Luke thing was really in the first part of the movie and was a way to make her likable to old fans. They would have this familiar and nostalgic feeling and get sucked into the story. To me the force back was really the cut in the movie. And then the Luke parallels stopped and it was about Rey as Rey *cough, and her connection with Kylo, cough* That is what I really got through that first home viewing and trying to look at it without the Kylo-fan goggles.

Not everyone will dig deeper. So visual clues will be the ones taken at face value. And then you get a Rey Skywalker effect. I watched the PT only once and the OT several times. I can only assume that there are a lot of people like me out there. I am more a candidate to obsession over a movie though so I do look into it deeper. But most people entered the theater with Skywalker-goggles.

Yes, Rey is still a mystery box. I have the feeling she is not going to Luke to train as a Jedi. In the novelization when Leia and Rey say goobye, it sounds more like they have some sort of plan. I cannot remember what is being said, but I did not read it as she is going off for months of training. Would have to find it again. But then it's also not in the movie. Still, I would not be surprised if the training session most people expect, does not take place. At least not at the beginning of VIII.

@SanghaRen
Indeed. The problem is banking on visual parallels as proof of relation when they make a lot more sense as protagonist/protagonist callbacks. There is absolutely nothing in the movie that should genuinely make anybody who understands storytelling believe that Rey is Luke's in my opinion. But not everybody understands storytelling, and many are just surface-viewers who don't think about the implications of every potential plot-twist (and have no reason to think about the implications). There's nothing wrong with surface-viewing, but narrative analysis proves that Reywalker never made sense. It would take its own movie to explain, and it would still cause numerous character assassinations, make the timeline unbearably convoluted and rely on unreliable deus-ex-machinas like selective mind-wiping. It's just bad storytelling all around.

From that surface-perspective I can see why someone would see Maz's line about the lightsaber as a hint that Rey might be related to Luke. But when you actually think about it... isn't she just stating the facts?

> That lightsaber was Luke's
> And his father's before him
> And now it calls to you

Those really are just the obvious facts. They don't say anything about Rey's relation to Luke. We know she didn't know who Rey was, so why would she be randomly saying that Luke was her father then? People jumped to conclusions and decided to read into a somewhat poorly worded line for the only time in the entire movie, ignoring the fact that Maz's subsequent speech really makes Reywalker unlikely. If belonging is ahead, how can Luke be behind? And anyway, the whole thing really can be explained by the fact that Rey seems to have some weird connection to Ben. It was his lightsaber once too.

vaderito wrote:

Jozie wrote:I would add one thing to "the story isn't about Luke". In OT the reveal of Darth Vader was a turning point for Luke and for the story because they had to fight each other . Same thing in TFA, the reveal of Han Solo as Kylo's father is crucial for the story and the main source of drama, because they have to fight each other. Making Luke Rey's father has none of that.

@Jozie

But she'll have to fight her first cousin! Drama!

Brilliant point!

@vaderito

Oh sith... But come on, fighting one's first cousin is not such a big deal right? Happens all the time in ASOIAF (even there patricide is like the worst).