ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 3

The music around 0:33 when Belle discover the painting is kind of similar to Rey Theme

UPDATED: So after watching BatB again, Snoke immediately reminded me of this guy - Maestro Forte, the main villain from BatB: The Enchanted



He was listed as Bond Destroyer villain type and shown to have Manipulated power, feeding on Beast Anger and Do Not want Beast to fall in love with Belle. Snoke pretty much the same, I mean he definitely do not want Kylo have any feelings towards Rey or going as far as forming a Force Bond with her. Snoke want to remain his power over Kylo. Below are some quotes from Forte that somehow called back to Snoke or possibly what he thinks about Reylo

"Humanity is entirely overrated! Before the enchantment, there was no need for my particular brand of genius. But now the Master needs my melodies to feed his tormented soul. I am his confident and his best friend. And I won't let some peasant girl RUIN IT FOR ME!!!"

"So, Beast gets girl, and it's a happy ending for everyone. Enchantment lifted,... and Forte fades into the background. No longer important, no longer needed... I THINK NOT!!!"

From http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Maestro_Forte

Jozie wrote:BTW... Probably someone has already noticed this, but it's worth reminding:

Alan Dean Foster wrote:At the sound of nearby explosions, Ren ceased his probing, but he did not remove his hand from
Rey’s face as he turned toward the now ruined castle.

For a brief moment, Kylo was touching her face for no reason, just like that. Cause it felt nice

@Jozie


I noticed that on my first viewing....I often reflect on that moment....it's oddly interresting for me

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Jozie wrote:BTW... Probably someone has already noticed this, but it's worth reminding:

Alan Dean Foster wrote:At the sound of nearby explosions, Ren ceased his probing, but he did not remove his hand from
Rey’s face as he turned toward the now ruined castle.

For a brief moment, Kylo was touching her face for no reason, just like that. Cause it felt nice

@Jozie

Lucasfilm: Mr. Foster, we have a delicate mission for you. Use context clues to make it obvious Kylo Ren wants Rey so bad he can taste his impending victory but don't outright say it.
Alan Dean Foster: *writing* He did not remove his hand from Rey's face... He touched her anew...

@MeadowofAshes

Don't forget he is stroking Rey's face as well

Dingle, are you fixated on that moment as well....
*high five*

Arcana wrote:Dingle, are you fixated on that moment as well....
*high five*

@Arcana

In the forest? Sure, it's a great moment

But Kylo stroking Rey's face happens in the book version of the interrogation scene, if I remember correctly. Book!Kylo keeps on touching Rey whenever possible.

Their attraction is undeniable...he likes cute cheekiness and she loves tall, dark and handsome....it's destiny...or fate...or both

So I read (okay I skimmed it I'm sorry) Ohtze's Death and the Maiden essay before, so I shouldn't be so excited about this maiden/monster stuff....but I still am. I just watched the original King Kong for the first time (I've never seen a King Kong movie don't judge me) and I swear I was watching TFA, BUT it was TFA minus the hope and family and the force and plus some racism and a heck ton of sexism.

Ann, the main girl, was starving and alone, without any family in the beginning, just like Rey.
A reckless movie director who is known for his dangerous and mysterious work wants to hire her to be in his movie. (this sounds like Han, I mean, Han's crew died b/c they were hauling rathtars)
This guy on the ship, Jack, totally falls for Ann and wants to protect her from any danger, like Finn. His character as played as the most good and moral, but also the most sensible, not wanting to charge into danger unless Anne needs saving.

Pretty much everyone totally loves Ann. She is the "golden woman." This is like how Daisy Ridley said Rey had a huge affect on everyone she met. She is special, like Ann.

Now, Kylo is basically King Kong, this huge killer beast. Kylo's mask even looks like a big snout. He terrorizes a native village, like how Kylo ordered the Jakku massacre. King Kong is totally obsessed with Ann, and keeps saving her from creatures. There is even that awkward part where he is creepily curious and keeps sort of touching her, which I feel is like the interrogation scene, where Kylo is curious about Rey. Both Rey and Anne struggle and don't like this.
And the whole freaking time, Jack is trying to save Anne, just like Finn is always trying to save Rey. He even saves her.

Now, the movie director also always has these bombs that he uses to injure King Kong so he can capture him and take him back to the city. This is like how Han used the bombs at the end of TFA.

Also, at the end of KK, Kong is up on the Empire State Building, a monument like Starkiller Base and airplanes are attacking, like the figter pilots in TFA. Kong is bloodied and beat up, just like Kylo in TFA. Kong falls to his death, but this actually mirrors Han's death. Also, at the end, the director goes up to Kong with an almost sad face and looks at his dead body and tells the people gathered around that the airplanes didn't kill Kong, it was the beauty of Ann, "Beauty killed the Beast." Kong is the director's beast, he captured him, which is almost like how Kylo is Han's child/beast. Now, the Beauty killed the Beast thing is much more literal in TFA, where Rey actually totally beats up Kylo Ren. Also, he is less taken by her beauty than her light and her power with the force, because TFA is not as freaking sexist and boring as KK.

Now, finding the similarities was super fun, but the differences were even more important.
Ann never showed any compassion or care for Kong. She just screamed the whole time. She also didn't fight back or hurt Kong, except metaphorically (Beauty killed the Beast). Rey actually gets inside Kylo's head, she shows a similar curiosity and even a hint of concern for Kylo Ren. She also totally batters and scars Kylo Ren and leaves him all bloody in the snow.

Kylo Ren is not really a monster like Kong, he is a man looking like a monster, while Kong is a monster with weird kindness/compassion/weakness.

Jack is waaay less complex of a character than Finn. Jack was pretty flat, only there as Ann's lover/hero. This is what Finn is unfortunately mostly confined to in TFA, but he doesn't save the girl, they don't get engaged, she doesn't let him hold her hand, like Anne held Jack's hand. Also Jack doesn't have the stormtrooper to resistance fighter story Finn has. Finn is going to grow into a better role than simply Rey's boyfriend, like Jack was. John Boyega talks about how he had to hold back in his role as Finn in TFA, showing a lot of fear, and that he had to wait to become the totally awesome hero, which sounds like he was holding back because he was playing the Jack role, and now he can be free from that role and have his own story...idk

Also, the director/Han is actually Kylo's father and Han dies, not Kylo. This is also a huge difference which is very important. Han died falling like Kong died falling. Han died in Kylo's place so that Kylo's story could move forward. Kong didn't develop or change or grow in KK, but Kylo did and will continue to change and evolve in the trilogy.

Also, we never see Kylo Ren saving Rey, while we see Kong saving Ann at like, every turn, unless you are gonna count the kinda obscure force vision thing with Kylo. So, this will possibly be something featured more in episode eight?

Anyway, there is also the force thing going on between Rey and Kylo and Rey is no weak thing like Ann and Kylo is not actually a beast like Kong, so...things are different because there would be no point in telling the story otherwise.

Also, Snoke is a huge factor that doesn't have a parallel in KK. Unless...the director could also be like Snoke when he says "beauty killed the beast." That is essentially saying "you have compassion for her. It is not her strength that is making you feel, it's your weakness." But this is really a pathetic moral of the story for TFA to end with because it isn't some horror movie like KK.

But the beginning of the movie also had this quote:
"And the Prophet said, "And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And it stayed its hand from killing. And from that day, it was as one dead."
Old Arabian Proverb"
I honestly picture the part where Rey and Kylo are in the woods and he has his hand hovering in front of her face. "It stayed its hand."

So...Beauty and the Beast is even a theme in KK which has clear parallels, BUT Star Wars is more of a fairy tale than some KK horror movie, and there are key differences and there is still more story to tell, so......where else could this story go but reylo?

Thank you, this didn't really tell anyone anything new, but it was fun to analyze and I got excited while watching it.

Also BONUS: Ann cries to Jack when Kong is rampaging in the city and she says how it was like "nightmare" on the "island," because Kong was on an island and it reminded me of the nightmare/daydream force vision stuff and the I see the island... stuff and how they might meet again on the island??? Fun stuff.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Qui-Ghost wrote:Has Kylo Ren's real name been confirmed to be Ben Solo?  What if he took his mother's name and went by Ben Organa?  There's nothing that says he has to go by Ben Solo.

Also, let's suppose he becomes redeemed and decides to go by Leia's last name, but Leia's real name, her rightful name.  It's conceivable that we might actually get a Ben Skywalker in this trilogy.

@Qui-Ghost
It hasn't been confirmed. Pablo Hidalgo has pointed this out a few times to people actually. His name could be anything from Ben Solo to Ben Skywalker-Solo to Ben Organa-Solo. I think the second would make the most sense, but we'll see.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Kylo hints at sKYwalker soLO Name is obviously derived from those 2 names. Also, since they are not confirming his name (another stupid mystery for the sake of mystery) you bet it isn't Ben Solo.

You know one of the most confusing things for me is when some people claim Reylo is abusive.This just doesn't make sense.How can they be abusive when they're not in a relationship?It's just really frustrating because if we had him treating Rey like some innocent flower they would be saying it's sexist but when we have them treat each other the way enemies on opposite side do they immediately cry abuse.So which one is Rey:a Mary Sue or a victim?You can't have it both ways.
I swear even if Kylo literally died to save Rey they would still hold it against him that he kidnapped,"tortured"her and oh yeah also threw her against a tree.It's interesting how they conveniently forget how Rey also trued to kill him on Takodana without knowing anything about him,  enters Kylo's mind without his permission and scars his face.But I guess that wasn't abuse since Rey was protecting herself.

CienaRee wrote:You know one of the most confusing things for me is when some people claim Reylo is abusive.This just doesn't make sense.How can they be abusive when they're not in a relationship?It's just really frustrating because if we had him treating Rey like some innocent flower they would be saying it's sexist but when we have them treat each other the way enemies on opposite side do they immediately cry abuse.
I swear even if Kylo literally died to save Rey they would still hold it against him that he kidnapped,"tortured"her and oh yeah also threw her against a tree.It's interesting how they conveniently forget how Rey also trued to kill him on Takodana without knowing anything about him, enters Kylo's mind without his permission and scars his face.But I guess that wasn't abuse since Rey was protecting herself.

@CienaRee
Deadpool did it quite well “is it sexist if I kill you? or is it even more sexist if I don't kill you"
If that's abuse than Rey is abusing him as well. I never saw their interaction as abusive..they're completely equal

Darth Dingbat wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Jozie wrote:BTW... Probably someone has already noticed this, but it's worth reminding:

Alan Dean Foster wrote:At the sound of nearby explosions, Ren ceased his probing, but he did not remove his hand from
Rey’s face as he turned toward the now ruined castle.

For a brief moment, Kylo was touching her face for no reason, just like that. Cause it felt nice

@Jozie

Lucasfilm: Mr. Foster, we have a delicate mission for you. Use context clues to make it obvious Kylo Ren wants Rey so bad he can taste his impending victory but don't outright say it.
Alan Dean Foster: *writing* He did not remove his hand from Rey's face... He touched her anew...

@MeadowofAshes

Don't forget he is stroking Rey's face as well

@Darth Dingbat

We should compile a list of all the Reylo hints in that book. I need to read it again. I'm sure there's plenty ive missed!

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:I hope his name is Ben Skywalker-Solo so there's NO doubt he's a Skywalker (like there should have ever been any doubts).

@Kessel89

Skywalker-Solo or Organa-Solo or either of those without the hyphen. My kids have two unhyphenated last names, so naturally I love this idea. Why not pass the mother's last name on as well? It is 2016, is it not? And Skywalker-Solo is just bad@$$, who wouldn't name their kid that?

@MeadowofAshes

Absolutely! Not sure why people have an issue with hypenated names. I plan on having a hypenated name once I get married, why should I take on my husband's name and lose my own?

Skywalker-Solo sounds best to me.

CienaRee wrote:You know one of the most confusing things for me is when some people claim Reylo is abusive.This just doesn't make sense.How can they be abusive when they're not in a relationship?It's just really frustrating because if we had him treating Rey like some innocent flower they would be saying it's sexist but when we have them treat each other the way enemies on opposite side do they immediately cry abuse.So which one is Rey:a Mary Sue or a victim?You can't have it both ways.
I swear even if Kylo literally died to save Rey they would still hold it against him that he kidnapped,"tortured"her and oh yeah also threw her against a tree.It's interesting how they conveniently forget how Rey also trued to kill him on Takodana without knowing anything about him,  enters Kylo's mind without his permission and scars his face.But I guess that wasn't abuse since Rey was protecting herself.

@CienaRee

I had a woman not two days ago attempt to guilt trip me on Twitter for commenting that Kylo checks Rey out and showing a picture comparing Kylo's look at Rey during the interrogation to Han's look at Leia on Cloud City. This convo began with the woman saying it was a look like Kylo was going to "murder and force himself on Rey" and that I was "gross" (lol) for being into the victimization of a woman in a "coded r-word scene". It progressed into the insinuation that I was racist and sexist, to the flat out statement that "all white people are racist", then ended with me being "a middle aged white woman who doesn't care about social issues that don't affect her" from her end and a cheeky Tweet finishing off a round of calling her on her shaming and emotional manipulation tactics with a picture of a Reylo kiss fanart from my end. You cannot talk reason to the FinnRey fanatics. They will find any excuse possible to cry abuse from Reylo to force Rey and Finn together. Remember, all this over pointing out that Kylo finds Rey physically attractive. These people are just nuts.

MeadowofAshes wrote:

CienaRee wrote:You know one of the most confusing things for me is when some people claim Reylo is abusive.This just doesn't make sense.How can they be abusive when they're not in a relationship?It's just really frustrating because if we had him treating Rey like some innocent flower they would be saying it's sexist but when we have them treat each other the way enemies on opposite side do they immediately cry abuse.So which one is Rey:a Mary Sue or a victim?You can't have it both ways.
I swear even if Kylo literally died to save Rey they would still hold it against him that he kidnapped,"tortured"her and oh yeah also threw her against a tree.It's interesting how they conveniently forget how Rey also trued to kill him on Takodana without knowing anything about him,  enters Kylo's mind without his permission and scars his face.But I guess that wasn't abuse since Rey was protecting herself.

@CienaRee

I had a woman not two days ago attempt to guilt trip me on Twitter for commenting that Kylo checks Rey out and showing a picture comparing Kylo's look at Rey during the interrogation to Han's look at Leia on Cloud City. This convo began with the woman saying it was a look like Kylo was going to "murder and force himself on Rey" and that I was "gross" (lol) for being into the victimization of a woman in a "coded r-word scene". It progressed into the insinuation that I was racist and sexist, to the flat out statement that "all white people are racist", then ended with me being "a middle aged white woman who doesn't care about social issues that don't affect her" from her end and a cheeky Tweet finishing off a round of calling her on her shaming and emotional manipulation tactics with a picture of a Reylo kiss fanart from my end. You cannot talk reason to the FinnRey fanatics. They will find any excuse possible to cry abuse from Reylo to force Rey and Finn together. Remember, all this over pointing out that Kylo finds Rey physically attractive. These people are just nuts.

@MeadowofAshes

You should have posted that frame, when it seems like they're kissing and answer: tell that to the Kanjiclub lol!

Maria Antonietta wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

CienaRee wrote:You know one of the most confusing things for me is when some people claim Reylo is abusive.This just doesn't make sense.How can they be abusive when they're not in a relationship?It's just really frustrating because if we had him treating Rey like some innocent flower they would be saying it's sexist but when we have them treat each other the way enemies on opposite side do they immediately cry abuse.So which one is Rey:a Mary Sue or a victim?You can't have it both ways.
I swear even if Kylo literally died to save Rey they would still hold it against him that he kidnapped,"tortured"her and oh yeah also threw her against a tree.It's interesting how they conveniently forget how Rey also trued to kill him on Takodana without knowing anything about him,  enters Kylo's mind without his permission and scars his face.But I guess that wasn't abuse since Rey was protecting herself.

@CienaRee

I had a woman not two days ago attempt to guilt trip me on Twitter for commenting that Kylo checks Rey out and showing a picture comparing Kylo's look at Rey during the interrogation to Han's look at Leia on Cloud City. This convo began with the woman saying it was a look like Kylo was going to "murder and force himself on Rey" and that I was "gross" (lol) for being into the victimization of a woman in a "coded r-word scene". It progressed into the insinuation that I was racist and sexist, to the flat out statement that "all white people are racist", then ended with me being "a middle aged white woman who doesn't care about social issues that don't affect her" from her end and a cheeky Tweet finishing off a round of calling her on her shaming and emotional manipulation tactics with a picture of a Reylo kiss fanart from my end. You cannot talk reason to the FinnRey fanatics. They will find any excuse possible to cry abuse from Reylo to force Rey and Finn together. Remember, all this over pointing out that Kylo finds Rey physically attractive. These people are just nuts.

@MeadowofAshes

You should have posted that frame, when it seems like they're kissing and answer: tell that to the Kanjiclub lol!

@Maria Antonietta

Haha! The first couple of Tweets I opted for a stormtrooper with "move along!" Kanjiclub would've been better though. I did manage to slip in "You might want to change your tactic" later though lol.

The Reylo is abusive accusations I never understood because they aren't in a relationship. They are enemies and enemies do crappy things to each other. But again, I am just a middle age woman who doesn't understand social issues.

Birdwoman wrote: The Reylo is abusive accusations I never understood because they aren't in a relationship. They are enemies and enemies do crappy things to each other. But again, I am just a middle age woman who doesn't understand social issues.

@Birdwoman

The interrogation is a scene in which a male character has a job to do, to interrogate an enemy captive and obtain information that could prevent his mother's death, and does so in a strikingly less "abusive" manner than is done to another captive earlier in the movie, with multiple attempts to get her to just tell him the information. It is made plain that he specifically does not want to hurt her. It is also a scene that establishes a mutual physical attraction, his empathy for her experiences, and a connection through the Force.

I know I am preaching to the choir here and you agree, just getting this out of my system because the sheer stupidity behind the abuse accusations is obnoxious. It's like people have no knowledge or understanding of storytelling elements and just want to use Star Wars to harp on their pet social issues. We all have our pet issues, but put let's try some objective movie analysis when talking about a movie.

Birdwoman wrote: The Reylo is abusive accusations I never understood because they aren't in a relationship. They are enemies and enemies do crappy things to each other. But again, I am just a middle age woman who doesn't understand social issues.

@Birdwoman

I am in the same bandwagon. Completely ignorant and socially insensible according to certain groups of people on the internet.
I literally do not get what they are talking about. Is it me?

I don't either. My take is that the people who have the biggist issue with Kylo and Rey having some sort of connection also picked up on the UST between them. Even if they deny it.
Has there been a lot of fall out on the internet since JJ slipped up?

Birdwoman wrote:I don't either. My take is that the people who have the biggist issue with Kylo and Rey having some sort of connection also picked up on the UST between them. Even if they deny it.
Has there been a lot of fall out on the internet since JJ slipped up?

@Birdwoman

Do not know. I do not follow much. It annoys me and makes me aggressive (classic temptation of the dark side )
And you are right they picked up the UST in the movie. And are completely repulsed by the idea of. I can even respect that. I just do not want to be attacked by those guys.

I try to avoid the drama also. Though I do enjoy lurking and reading people's opinions.

Birdwoman wrote:I try to avoid the drama also. Though I do enjoy lurking and reading people's opinions.

@Birdwoman

Yeah....I do probably as well when I am in the mood...if I am not I am on the edge of the dark side

I am currently starting to lurk on another forum reading the debates. I understand why people are disappointed but I felt the movie was clear that she was not related to the Skywalkers by blood. However, having grown up watching the original trilogy in the movie theaters I get why people drew that conclusion early on. I am so excited by where they can take this story now.

Birdwoman wrote:I am currently starting to lurk on another forum reading the debates. I understand why people are disappointed but I felt the movie was clear that she was not related to the Skywalkers by blood. However, having grown up watching the original trilogy in the movie theaters I get why people drew that conclusion early on. I am so excited by where they can take this story now.

@Birdwoman

I am as well super excited. I must admit I was around 50% sure about Rey s origins after my first viewing. It was a bit too much fast paced movie to digest all at once. There were few confusing details I must admit. (For example: among other details I did not not notice that little Rey was carried away by Unkar Plutt in the vision -which is important in Skywalker debunking).
Now it is perfectly clear..but back then not so much.

Sylvia Snow wrote:

The music around 0:33 when Belle discover the painting is kind of similar to Rey Theme

@Sylvia Snow

tagging @rey09 in this too to answer your question:

FIRST OF ALL, THEY ARE IN THE SAME EXACT KEY
Both motifs start on a concert E. FASCINATING, WILLIAMS.
Both motifs START and END with the same three notes...

Notes for theme at 0:33 (where Belle discovers the beast's true form)
E-D-E-F-D-B-E

Notes for Rey's theme at 0:13 (celeste/bell sounding motif)
E-D-E-C-D-B-E

JUST A HUMBLE OBSERVATION

now I haven't seen B&B in forever...does this theme play anywhere else?? Is it Belle's theme throughout or just in this scene??