ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 4

So, @Xylo Ren discovered today just how similar the motifs from Rey's Theme and the Beauty and the Beast Prologue really are. John Williams, you genius. I made this for people like myself who aren't particularly musically inclined.

E-D-E-F-D-B-E
E-D-E-C-D-B-E

In the original, the 4th note is directly to the right of the 1st and 2nd notes.


John Williams just moved the 4th note directly to the left of the 1st and 2nd notes. All other notes are identical.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:

The music around 0:33 when Belle discover the painting is kind of similar to Rey Theme

@Sylvia Snow

tagging @rey09 in this too to answer your question:

FIRST OF ALL, THEY ARE IN THE SAME EXACT KEY
Both motifs start on a concert E. FASCINATING, WILLIAMS.
Both motifs START and END with the same three notes...

Notes for theme at 0:33 (where Belle discovers the beast's true form)
E-D-E-F-D-B-E

Notes for Rey's theme at 0:13 (celeste/bell sounding motif)
E-D-E-C-D-B-E

JUST A HUMBLE OBSERVATION

now I haven't seen B&B in forever...does this theme play anywhere else?? Is it Belle's theme throughout or just in this scene??

@Xylo Ren

Isn't this the same comparison?

@FrolickingFizzgig

Take a listen to this one!!!!  It compares Kylo's theme to the Beast's!!!!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrlyrf1Am4U&ebc=ANyPxKolCofdNuNnhHMWdTZ2CLk_p-2eu7hMxEWjMbEY1jPn9CPk0zPX16wEJpVPNEMmCcpPAB8g1ZT3a-TH-Rw_ulAfAB5ILQ

I just had to go back and watch Disney's beauty and the beast as there's been so much interesting discussion and comparison. Not sure if this has been pointed out but Belle is constantly referred to as 'the girl', just like Rey is. Somewhat more tenuous but the beast being called 'the master' (master of the Knights of Ren?) is interesting too.

omg @bastillabey I didn't know that! THEY LITERALLY CALL HER 'THE GIRL'?? He's the MASTER (OF KoR)?!!

I can't. I have lost the ability to "can".

BastilaBey wrote:I just had to go back and watch Disney's beauty and the beast as there's been so much interesting discussion and comparison. Not sure if this has been pointed out but Belle is constantly referred to as 'the girl', just like Rey is. Somewhat more tenuous but the beast being called 'the master' (master of the Knights of Ren?) is interesting too.

@BastilaBey

Interesting!!!!

Gemini wrote:ok..she isnt the enchantress but damn I think snoke is

Personality

The Enchantress is the one who placed the spell on the Prince and everyone inside the castle for the Prince's cruel ways. She is cunning, taking on the disguise of an old, helpless woman seeking shelter to test the Prince's heart. How kind or good she actually is, however, is up for debate, particularly because of the debate over the Beast's age when he was cursed, and how she cursed everyone in the castle rather than just the guilty party (including Chip Potts, who was undebatably a child at the time), as well as being implied to have cursed the entire forest surrounding the castle to become too dangerous for anyone to attempt to go nearby.

@Gemini
Yep, if anybody is the sorcerer it's Snoke. I discussed that in my first paper actually.

"Kylo Ren is without any doubt the archetypical Beast, the youth under a sorcerer’s curse. [...] Supreme Leader Snoke lured him away from his family, indoctrinating him, training him and moulding him to his will."

All Beast's have a sorcerer/enchantress of some kind that was responsible for their curse.

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:I hope his name is Ben Skywalker-Solo so there's NO doubt he's a Skywalker (like there should have ever been any doubts).

@Kessel89

Skywalker-Solo or Organa-Solo or either of those without the hyphen. My kids have two unhyphenated last names, so naturally I love this idea. Why not pass the mother's last name on as well? It is 2016, is it not? And Skywalker-Solo is just bad@$$, who wouldn't name their kid that?

@MeadowofAshes

He had the right idea. Kylo is much shorter to write/say than Skywalker-Solo. He just got tired of signing FO documents with that long last name.

Search Your Feelings wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:I hope his name is Ben Skywalker-Solo so there's NO doubt he's a Skywalker (like there should have ever been any doubts).

@Kessel89

Skywalker-Solo or Organa-Solo or either of those without the hyphen. My kids have two unhyphenated last names, so naturally I love this idea. Why not pass the mother's last name on as well? It is 2016, is it not? And Skywalker-Solo is just bad@$$, who wouldn't name their kid that?

@MeadowofAshes

He had the right idea. Kylo is much shorter to write/say than Skywalker-Solo. He just got tired of signing FO documents with that long last name.

@Search Your Feelings

Ha! Right? Now I'm imagining poor Ben in Kindergarten.
Teacher: Okay students, let's practice writing our names in Aurebesh.
Ben: *sigh*

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Search Your Feelings wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:I hope his name is Ben Skywalker-Solo so there's NO doubt he's a Skywalker (like there should have ever been any doubts).

@Kessel89

Skywalker-Solo or Organa-Solo or either of those without the hyphen. My kids have two unhyphenated last names, so naturally I love this idea. Why not pass the mother's last name on as well? It is 2016, is it not? And Skywalker-Solo is just bad@$$, who wouldn't name their kid that?

@MeadowofAshes

He had the right idea. Kylo is much shorter to write/say than Skywalker-Solo. He just got tired of signing FO documents with that long last name.

@Search Your Feelings

Ha! Right? Now I'm imagining poor Ben in Kindergarten.
Teacher: Okay students, let's practice writing our names in Aurebesh.
Ben: *sigh*

@MeadowofAshes

And teacher Snoke purposely made Ben write his full name on the blackboard during recess when he was bad. Which led Ben more susceptible to the darkside.

This is what Snoke is trying to do with Kylo before his meeting with Rey. Manipulating and Brainwashing

I was thinking about the Awakening element of TFA and what exactly was the trigger.

A lot of people claim that Rey is a Skywalker because of many things including her ability as a pilot (saying that she inherited the ability from Luke and Anakin)  well I don't know if you can inherit such a thing because I know I didn't inherit my Father's driving skills.

Anyway in my over thinking (coach journeys are v v boring) I suddenly thought that going by what Maz said about the Force being in every living thing etc maybe (now this is just a totally random passing thought) it was the Force that was kinda guiding her piloting skills when she was in the MF.  Plus it has had many FS passengers - Luke, Leia, OB1 + I'm guessing little Kylo/Ben, and Rey has always been FS.

So what if her FS abilities were triggered by 1) she meets BB8 + 2) piloting the MF

Also lets not forget that the MF is the ship of Han Solo - therefore it is Ben's legacy, and well the Force needs and wants Rey and Ben to be together to bring balance to it.  

So what if the Force manipulated the whole thing - think about it - it was just too convenient that Lor San Tekka to very coincidently come across the map that'll lead to Luke - especially as he's a member of the Church of the Force, an old ally of Leia's - how did he suddenly have it after all those years of Luke being in exile.  Just too strange and unexplained for my liking.  

The Force could well be conspiring to get Rey to Ben because they will be the balance.  They will be the grey that the Force needs.

Okay tell me to be quiet now - I'm very very

Yeah, the force has its own will and ways, she needs to get to Kylo and the saber and Luke in one way or another. The force guided her

Ok this is going to be disjoint as I'm a bit sleepy, but I thought I'd share.

Just watched the movie with my parents. This is the first Star Wars movie my mum's ever seen and only because I really wanted her opinion(she is very much into romance and notices these patterns very fast), so she has very little knowledge beyond  the things I've explained to her, which I find kinda interesting.

Anyway her observations: The first thing after the end of the movie  before I even asked anything she randomly states "Finn's just a friend to her, it's obvious".

Then she was very curious who is Rey, but there wasn't even the tiniest of thoughts that she might be Luke's ( how different the perspective is when you've no previous knowledge of the rest of the Star Wars).

I asked what does she think of Kylo and she replied that she thinks he is the most attractive out of the 3 guys and has an extremely enigmatic aura(my mum is one heck of a fussy woman, no doubt prince Kylo was created to capture women's hearts    ). She is sure he is going to come back to the light. I played a bit of devil's advocate and asked "So you think he'd be redeemed despite killing his father?" Her reply: "It's a movie, not a real life, besides I don't think he could have possibly not kill him, everybody was watching, there was no way out, I knew it'd happen even before it did"  

Now to Reylo, she sees that Kylo "fancies" Rey, but she is convinced Rey would have killed him had the earth not split between them. When I wondered why she thinks Kylo is interested in Rey, she cryptically said : "Cannot even explain it, call it woman's intuition". When I said that in the novel Kylo touches Rey's face and is said to have compassion for her, my mum stated that no wonder they didn't put in into TFA, because if it was in the movie it'd be so blatantly clear that he wants her, that nobody would be left with any doubt as to what's to come in the future films.

The woman's intuition thing is so true in my opinion, women know what a guy is like when he fancies us, often he doesn't even need to be overly obvious about it. I think part of what we're seeing is in Adam's excellent acting ability, he was obviously directed to act like a man that is interested in this woman and we're picking up on it on more than a conscious level.

@Rogue Rey The Force is manipulating everything and awakening is definitely part of that.

I just want to comment on arguably THE most important moment of Force's will - the vision aka the Forceback. Many people took from that part of the movie that Luke's saber called to Rey and therefore she must be Luke's daughter. But Forceback actually refutes that because it isn't about Rey's parentage at all! Luke is just one of several scenes that Rey sees but what Forceback really is about is - ta-da - Kylo! Big story here is that the Force showed Kylo to Rey as her protector, a man who killed to protect her. Now, that isn't what Rey took from the scene cause she was too distracted by his scary masked appearance, but that's what the scene is about and we, as viewers, were supposed to take it as Kylo saving Rey from an attacker. Because, if the idea was to show Kylo as ruthless killer, they wouldn't edit the scene in a way that puts Rey in attacked person's position. They could have edited it so that Kylo and his victim fight face to face and Rey simply observe Kylo's viciousness. But they put her in interactive position and her scenes with Kylo are the only ones where she interact with a vision (Kylo breaks the fourth wall). In short, she should trust Kylo and eventually she will. he won't hurt her and he already proved that.

Moreover, there is a reason why Young Rey vision is sandwiched between 2 Kylo visions, and not close to Luke vision. The Force doesn't show Luke as her father because he isn't. The Force doesn't even hint at possibility. This is one thing that Reywalkers miss completely. If there was a moment to hint at Luke as Rey's parent, this was it. Forceback from Luke's saber. But nope. Instead, they sandwiched Young Rey between Kylo in the rain and Kylo in the snow. Why? Because "whomever you are waiting for on Jakku, they are never coming back." That's parents. "but there's someone who still could." Now get this. Novelization had this sentence as "but there's someone who still could. With your help." Who is the perosn that could still come back with rey's help? It's Kylo. He needs help because he doesn't know the way home. Luke does. He doesn't need help to come back. He can come back when he wants because he knows the way. But Kylo doesn't. The Forceback is about Kylo. Therefore, Maz words are about Kylo. Rey thinks they are about Luke because it;s his saber, but the Force didn't show her Luke as most important thing in her future. It showed Kylo.

Kylo is why the Force put Rey on MF and sent Han on her path and called her to Anakin/Luke/Kylo's saber. "You cannot deny the truth that is your family". Kylo needs someone to return him to his family, someone who isn't his family but can show him the way home. They are What Girl and One Boy. Beautiful mirroring.

Arm punch.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Arm punch.

@FrolickingFizzgig

JJ and his self-insert. We know Kylo is JJ. Way too obvious. They even braid his hair to curl like JJ's.

-


......and a great moment showing how much physical effort Adam put into those dueling sequences.
He looks exausted here and I think J.J. knows he is giving his all, thus the gesture.

I love this clip.
Really hits home how much work it takes to make these characters come to life for us, the audience.

vaderito wrote:@Rogue Rey The Force is manipulating everything and awakening is definitely part of that.

I just want to comment on arguably THE most important moment of Force's will - the vision aka the Forceback. Many people took from that part of the movie that Luke's saber called to Rey and therefore she must be Luke's daughter. But Forceback actually refutes that because it isn't about Rey's parentage at all! Luke is just one of several scenes that Rey sees but what Forceback really is about is - ta-da - Kylo! Big story here is that the Force showed Kylo to Rey as her protector, a man who killed to protect her. Now, that isn't what Rey took from the scene cause she was too distracted by his scary masked appearance, but that's what the scene is about and we, as viewers, were supposed to take it as Kylo saving Rey from an attacker. Because, if the idea was to show Kylo as ruthless killer, they wouldn't edit the scene in a way that puts Rey in attacked person's position. They could have edited it so that Kylo and his victim fight face to face and Rey simply observe Kylo's viciousness. But they put her in interactive position and her scenes with Kylo are the only ones where she interact with a vision (Kylo breaks the fourth wall). In short, she should trust Kylo and eventually she will. he won't hurt her and he already proved that.

Moreover, there is a reason why Young Rey vision is sandwiched between 2 Kylo visions, and not close to Luke vision. The Force doesn't show Luke as her father because he isn't. The Force doesn't even hint at possibility. This is one thing that Reywalkers miss completely. If there was a moment to hint at Luke as Rey's parent, this was it. Forceback from Luke's saber. But nope. Instead, they sandwiched Young Rey between Kylo in the rain and Kylo in the snow. Why? Because "whomever you are waiting for on Jakku, they are never coming back." That's parents. "but there's someone who still could." Now get this. Novelization had this sentence as "but there's someone who still could. With your help." Who is the perosn that could still come back with rey's help? It's Kylo. He needs help because he doesn't know the way home. Luke does. He doesn't need help to come back. He can come back when he wants because he knows the way. But Kylo doesn't. The Forceback is about Kylo. Therefore, Maz words are about Kylo. Rey thinks they are about Luke because it;s his saber, but the Force didn't show her Luke as most important thing in her future. It showed Kylo.

Kylo is why the Force put Rey on MF and sent Han on her path and called her to Anakin/Luke/Kylo's saber. "You cannot deny the truth that is your family". Kylo needs someone to return him to his family, someone who isn't his family but can show him the way home. They are What Girl and One Boy. Beautiful mirroring.

That's how I read it the first time I saw it, no big conspiracy theory connecting everything together, just that Fate/the Force meant all of these factors had fallen into place at the same time and location. Poe is a big part of this because he's the person who tracked down Lor San Tekka, gets the map to BB8, sends BB8 on his way to eventually meeting Rey, shoots the friend who triggers Finn's attack of conscience, and steals/flies the Tie Fighter that delivers Finn to Jakku, where he meets up with Rey and BB8. And I did think that Kylo Ren's initial freak outs about the girl where paranoia because all of these factors come into play, like did she escape from the village with the map? Is she tied to the Resistance/his mother? Is Finn a double agent because he ended up with her and BB8? Is she tied to his father? That's why I thought he was so hellbent on tracking her down and going through her mind, because those were the questions I had. And when he realizes that she's none of those things, just a concerned bystander who will beat down anybody who tries to capture/harm the Droid, that's when he really gets hooked on figuring out who she is. The subsequent Jedi Feats of Strength she performs in his presence just sort of solidify that she's something even more mysterious and amazing than what his paranoia had led him to believe.

More additions to saber calling:

Maz: "That lightsaber was Luke's and his father's before him, and now it calls out to you"

However, she is not quite right. because there's another...Skywalker.

"That lightsaber. It belongs to me!"

The saber was Anakin/Luke/Kylo's. Forceback, aka saber-induced vision, is primarily focused on...Kylo. if there was a place where they could drop Luke-is-your-father hints, that was it. But they didn't. They showed Luke tap R2's head and than proceeded to show us visions of Kylo who breaks the fourth wall when he sees Rey! Obviously, saber called Rey not because of Luke but because it introduced her to her antagonist...who's curiously painted in good light as he's seen saving her from some attacker.

And this:

"belonging you seek is not behind you. it is ahead"

"It belongs to me"

Rey picks up the lightsaber.

they could have phrased Kylo's line as "it's mine" or "I own it" but they wanted to call back to Maz's line. As we all concluded, belonging she seeks that is ahead is with Kylo. Saber called out to her because of Kylo. The Force willed it that way and the Force showed her good Kylo who protected her. Sounds like someone's heading towards redemption after all.

@vaderito excellent points there! Really love all these finds, plus never noticed the belonging phrase to add 2 + 2 together with Saber, Kylo, belonging that is sought etc....

I was thinking this morning about how the film makers are going to sway the audience to not hate Kylo Ren. Would it be possible that they will have some tyrant?

Some real pure sc*m sandwich to take all this hate off him. For instance, this character that is shown to be slaughtered by Kylo. What if this guy is a slithering sort. Someone like.....not like Jabba but someone who doesn't think twice about killing anyone and maybe gets real pleasure from it. Even worse than Hux. Ya know and real creep of sorts. Although, they could have anyone else, but Kylo if he does kill this guy, the audience should (I believe) be lured to cheer Kylo on when he does this. Ya know what I mean?

Ever see a real bad guy get his day to suffer? and you are just like "YES"!!!

Little_Boots wrote:@vaderito excellent points there! Really love all these finds, plus never noticed the belonging phrase to add 2 + 2 together with Saber, Kylo, belonging that is sought etc....

I was thinking this morning about how the film makers are going to sway the audience to not hate Kylo Ren. Would it be possible that they will have some tyrant?

Some real pure sc*m sandwich to take all this hate off him. For instance, this character that is shown to be slaughtered by Kylo. What if this guy is a slithering sort. Someone like.....not like Jabba but someone who doesn't think twice about killing anyone and maybe gets real pleasure from it. Even worse than Hux. Ya know and real creep of sorts. Although, they could have anyone else, but Kylo if he does kill this guy, the audience should (I believe) be lured to cheer Kylo on when he does this. Ya know what I mean?

Ever see a real bad guy get his day to suffer? and you are just like "YES"!!!

@Little_Boots

I'm convinced that Snoke Theme played over Han Slaying (why not Kylo Theme) combined with Kylo going blank face when light died is a hint that he wasn't 100% himself when he killed Han. he didn't want to do it but something took over him which is evident in his facial expression. His last scene before cut to Leia makes him look like he woke up from a trance. So there was a trance, what caused it?

We also have possibility of warning Leia about the weapon.

And the Force itself showed him to Rey as her protector/savor.

I think they are quietly building a very solid case for casting a batter light on him later.

Princes William and Harry will be visiting the Star Wars set at Pinewood:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36073109

The royals will be shown around by actress Daisy Ridley and meet Mark Hamill, who plays Skywalker, and director Rian Johnson, who are filming Star Wars: Episode VIII.

I guess that Adam maybe has a bit of a break from filming. Timings a bit sad, since he missed AITAF's event a couple weeks ago.

AnneNeville wrote:Princes William and Harry will be visiting the Star Wars set at Pinewood:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36073109

The royals will be shown around by actress Daisy Ridley and meet Mark Hamill, who plays Skywalker, and director Rian Johnson, who are filming Star Wars: Episode VIII.

I guess that Adam maybe has a bit of a break from filming. Timings a bit sad, since he missed AITAF's event a couple weeks ago.

@AnneNeville

Maybe that's why Daisy and Mark had to rehearse in Rian Johnson's house yesterday. How to behave around royalty?
Could it be that just Daisy and Mark are filming at Pinewood right now? I hardly heard of the other cast members. I really do hope that Adam will appear in Ireland next month.

I JUST made the connection that Pinewood studios is in Atlanta...

I think I might do a drive by and hope to get some @Sforza level intelligence....

I'll probably see the outside of a building with a fence surrounding it. It'll be riveting...

EchoBase wrote:  
@AnneNeville

Maybe that's why Daisy and Mark had to rehearse in Rian Johnson's house yesterday. How to behave around royalty?
Could it be that just Daisy and Mark are filming at Pinewood right now? I hardly heard of the other cast members. I really do hope that Adam will appear in Ireland next month.

@EchoBase

Considering that Luke and Rey have scenes together without anyone else's presence, it's not surprising.

@IoJovi aren't they in Pinewood, London, UK?