ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 5

panki wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:I would hope they'd make 'the turn' earlier too, so we can actually see his redemption story play out. Please, no repeat of Vader turning 5 minutes before the credits roll. That would be a complete cop out. I hope that part of the force vision plays out in 8 too, and it should if we are right about it being on Ahch-To.

And when we say turn, most of us are thinking grey jedi yes? I think that once someone's succumbed to the dark side, they can never really be a jedi anymore. Revan spent the rest of us life being not quite trusted by others and paying for what he'd done. But he still had Bastila's love.

@BastilaBey

You're partly right... in the EU, some people returned to being jedi after re-training (Aayla Secura), some returned after being made to face the darkness and perform a major good deed (Kyp Durron), and some spent a lifetime of exile and suffering before they could return to the light (Ulic Quel Droma)............. but according to canon (Dark Disciple), someone who succumbed to the dark side can remain a jedi if they return to the light side and even earn people's trust (though they have to earn it back through some major deed...not a lifetime of deeds).... I want the Hero of Tython ending for Ben Solo where the hero saves the republic and becomes a hero (and the hero was a sith/dark force user for some time similar to Kylo)

Ben Solo has has a pretty bad life till now based on what we know....he has a predator in his head from childhood...he has a family who is scared of their heritage and deny his force sensitivity.....he gets sent away from home and friends to stay with his hermit uncle (who anyway in under a lot of pressure)....then he finds out that he is the grandson of a much hated sith lord.....god knows how his new friends and fellow students reacted to this news......(I wont even go into the temple burning or his turning to the dark side because that could be a tragedy in itself).....now he is an isolated and feared figure in the FO.....few even know what he looks like under the mask and nobody is allowed to use his birth name.....he spares Finn but that comes back to bite him later.....he develops a soft corner for Rey and earns Snoke's wrath and a scar across his face for good measure......I'm divided about the level of agency he had on the walkway with Han but all that act got him was more loss and pain.....

If we look at Ben Solo, there is just so much tragedy....I can't bring myself to wish him any loss of limbs, exile, imprisonment etc under those circumstances... he needs the chance to redeem himself and save the galaxy.

If characters like Finn can mow down fellow brainwashed child soldiers, throw his former commanding officer (Phasma) who saved his life twice down a trash compactor to die, almost kill the whole resistance over rescuing Rey can be treated as some sort of hero...it is ridiculous to want Kylo to undergo all sorts of penance and pain and torture just to redeem himself. I see nothing beautiful in his pain.

Irina de France wrote:Speaking of training... A lot people talk about Rey having a Force trial in a cave like Luke did in ESB. Wouldn't it be interesting if Kylo got one as well, coincidentally at the same time?

vaderito wrote:

Reynak wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:Few days ago we were talking about the part of Rey's vision where Kylo saves her from KOR and came to the conclusion he doesn't grab his weapon first. Looks like we were wrong. I cut that part of the movie and slowed it down, frame by frame, and look what I found, he did grab his weapon first

@bela.mesecina

Is kylo's cowl on, covering his head? Because when he appraches Rey in the rain he isn't wearing it, I think. He is wearing neither the cowl not the cloak? I wonder why.

@Reynak

They must have used shots from different shooting days lol. or maybe his head cover fell off from the intensity of stabbing?

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Or they didn't want him to look as threatening when he approached her? The hood makes him look more ominous. From the very first time I saw this scene, I didn't think he was coming to threaten her. He has the body language of her a person who is coming to talk to her.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Thinking out loud here...  I know that in most of our headcanons, he's saving Rey when he kills that guy because that's the most romantic interpretation.

But what if it's actually Luke that he's saving, and she's seeing it from Luke's perspective? That could easily explain why Kylo appears to have Luke's green lightsaber in his other hand.

Rey witnesses this or witnesses at least part of the scene, and is standing there when Kylo breaks the fourth wall and approaches Rey.

With the meticulous amount of detail that went into the Forceback sequence, I'm hesitant to chalk up the difference in the cowl being up vs. down to a continuity error.

@ISeeAnIsland
Could easily be Luke. I always say it just looks like he's saving "someone".

@FrolickingFizzgig

I have noticed that!

And I've tried to add an "(or Luke)" in my discussion of the scene, but I'll admit that I never seriously considered that it might be Luke until seeing those two shots side-by-side.  

Nothing else in the Forceback cuts between shots like that (if I recall correctly), and I'm sure that they did that for a reason. We're either seeing two different moments in time, or we're seeing a moment from two different perspectives.

vaderito wrote:I think that something didn't go quite according to plan or Snoke would have completed his training. Something happened that we don't know yet but I think that he had to kill Han to prove that he wouldn't fail like...last time. Luke escaped. So he either wasn't there or beat Kylo or Kylo couldn't kill him. Think about it. Student destruction (be it massacre or turning) should have gotten him complete training...but it didn't. Why? cause something. hence necessary test to kill Han to prove himself.

vaderito wrote:Kylo is a person without instinct to be bad trying to be bad anyhow. That's his problem.

Reynak wrote:

vaderito wrote:Kylo is a person without instinct to be bad trying to be bad anyhow. That's his problem.

@vaderito

Which puts forward a very interesting question, why?

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Thinking out loud here...  I know that in most of our headcanons, he's saving Rey when he kills that guy because that's the most romantic interpretation.

But what if it's actually Luke that he's saving, and she's seeing it from Luke's perspective? That could easily explain why Kylo appears to have Luke's green lightsaber in his other hand.

Rey witnesses this or witnesses at least part of the scene, and is standing there when Kylo breaks the fourth wall and approaches Rey.

With the meticulous amount of detail that went into the Forceback sequence, I'm hesitant to chalk up the difference in the cowl being up vs. down to a continuity error.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

vaderito wrote:

Reynak wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:Few days ago we were talking about the part of Rey's vision where Kylo saves her from KOR and came to the conclusion he doesn't grab his weapon first. Looks like we were wrong. I cut that part of the movie and slowed it down, frame by frame, and look what I found, he did grab his weapon first

@bela.mesecina

Is kylo's cowl on, covering his head? Because when he appraches Rey in the rain he isn't wearing it, I think. He is wearing neither the cowl not the cloak? I wonder why.

@Reynak

They must have used shots from different shooting days lol. or maybe his head cover fell off from the intensity of stabbing?

@vaderito

Or they didn't want him to look as threatening when he approached her? The hood makes him look more ominous. From the very first time I saw this scene, I didn't think he was coming to threaten her. He has the body language of her a person who is coming to talk to her.

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Thinking out loud here...  I know that in most of our headcanons, he's saving Rey when he kills that guy because that's the most romantic interpretation.

But what if it's actually Luke that he's saving, and she's seeing it from Luke's perspective? That could easily explain why Kylo appears to have Luke's green lightsaber in his other hand.

Rey witnesses this or witnesses at least part of the scene, and is standing there when Kylo breaks the fourth wall and approaches Rey.

With the meticulous amount of detail that went into the Forceback sequence, I'm hesitant to chalk up the difference in the cowl being up vs. down to a continuity error.

@ISeeAnIsland

You guys probably just figured out more details, that has to be it. The body language is definitely not threatening, but coming to talk to you. And if it either happens in the future or if it's a flashback to show him defending Luke, that helps push the conflicted feelings forward.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Thinking out loud here...  I know that in most of our headcanons, he's saving Rey when he kills that guy because that's the most romantic interpretation.

But what if it's actually Luke that he's saving, and she's seeing it from Luke's perspective? That could easily explain why Kylo appears to have Luke's green lightsaber in his other hand.

Rey witnesses this or witnesses at least part of the scene, and is standing there when Kylo breaks the fourth wall and approaches Rey.

With the meticulous amount of detail that went into the Forceback sequence, I'm hesitant to chalk up the difference in the cowl being up vs. down to a continuity error.

@ISeeAnIsland

You guys probably just figured out more details, that has to be it. The body language is definitely not threatening, but coming to talk to you. And if it either happens in the future or if it's a flashback to show him defending Luke, that helps push the conflicted feelings forward.

@snufkin

I don't think it's a flashback because it appears to be happening on Ahch-To, which Kylo wouldn't have been to before, otherwise he wouldn't have needed the map. Plus, the whole Rey-looks-left = past/Rey-looks-right = future thing that seems to have been figured out.

snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.

vaderito wrote:@Snufkin Thank you!

snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.

MissG wrote:Don't remember seeing this one before. Is this real?



http://favim.com/image/3814819/

In any case seeing this moment  on a picture makes me see just how obvious Reylo would have been if they decided to leave it in the movie the way it was in the novel. Seriously though if he had no mask on I'd be sure he is about to kiss her.