ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 1

Gemini wrote:

Mana wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Mana wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:I do not know where to post it but here s the link to the bits of Daisy s audition scene, with JJ comments.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/keelyflaherty/daisy-ridleys-star-wars-audition-was-powerful?utm_term=.siYDnZ55k&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#.fi1ajJzzm

Mods, feel free to re(move) it if it is not appropriate of here.

weird how JJ calls it a 'torture' scene though

Why? It kind of is (to Rey). He watched her sleep, got way too close to her and then went after her personal thoughts and memories against her will, and this did cause Rey at least a small amount of pain. The fact that he didn't "want" to hurt her doesn't make his actions any better.

I don't get the squeamishness about admitting that the interrogation is definitely meant to come across a certain way. It's a metaphor just as much as the final battle. Sexual power/domination is no doubt a theme at play, and that theme is pushed through the idea of mind violation.

I guess when I compare it to Poe's it seems pretty mild, Poe's is more torture than interrogation...but you're right, its torture to Rey even though the scene wasn't meant to be a torture session where he willingly inflicts pain...

The scene is what it is. It shouldnt be denied. But he goes much easier on Rey. I really think he is trying to cause her the least amount of pain, but he is selfish and overcome with desire to read her inmost thoughts and he doesnt care that it makes her uncomfortable. He cant control himself in that moment, all he wants is to see her at her most intimate and all he wants is to get close to her and drink her in.

when sheflips it round on him, he lets her do this, he wants the darkness beat out of his a**.

I guess I'm just being paranoid
They've set up this wonderfully unique dynamic between Kylo and Rey, but what if they screw it up?!?

@Mana Fanfiction will still exist and offer an alternative if they screw the story up too much.

Fizz

Maybe not anger, but annoyance. But that's true, he was angry with Finn and it doesn’t look like that at the end. Or its a look that he knows he's about to die and she knows this too hence her look of concern. Its just the HD version looks so different to the bootleg that I feel like I misinterpreted the look originally

Mana wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Mana wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Mana wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:I do not know where to post it but here s the link to the bits of Daisy s audition scene, with JJ comments.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/keelyflaherty/daisy-ridleys-star-wars-audition-was-powerful?utm_term=.siYDnZ55k&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#.fi1ajJzzm

Mods, feel free to re(move) it if it is not appropriate of here. :)

weird how JJ calls it a 'torture' scene though :shock:

Why? It kind of is (to Rey). He watched her sleep, got way too close to her and then went after her personal thoughts and memories against her will, and this did cause Rey at least a small amount of pain. The fact that he didn't "want" to hurt her doesn't make his actions any better.

I don't get the squeamishness about admitting that the interrogation is definitely meant to come across a certain way. It's a metaphor just as much as the final battle. Sexual power/domination is no doubt a theme at play, and that theme is pushed through the idea of mind violation.

I guess when I compare it to Poe's it seems pretty mild, Poe's is more torture than interrogation...but you're right, its torture to Rey even though the scene wasn't meant to be a torture session where he willingly inflicts pain...

The scene is what it is. It shouldnt be denied. But he goes much easier on Rey. I really think he is trying to cause her the least amount of pain, but he is selfish and overcome with desire to read her inmost thoughts and he doesnt care that it makes her uncomfortable. He cant control himself in that moment, all he wants is to see her at her most intimate and all he wants is to get close to her and drink her in.

when sheflips it round on him, he lets her do this, he wants the darkness beat out of his a**.

I guess I'm just being paranoid :cry:
They've set up this wonderfully unique dynamic between Kylo and Rey, but what if they screw it up?!?

This is what happens if they screw it up:



I'm 99.999% sure they won't because the hard-evidence is just overwhelming at this point. There are hearts in the man's eyes for crying out loud xD


Not sure if it's legal, but it's like 1/10th of the actual picture.

Cut . . .  Paste . . . [Insert Infatuation Here].

Gemini wrote:Fizz

Maybe not anger, but annoyance. But that's true, he was angry with Finn and it doesn’t look like that at the end. Or its a look that he knows he's about to die and she knows this too hence her look of concern. Its just the HD version looks so different to the bootleg that I feel like I misinterpreted the look originally

I honestly just see the same lips-parted expression he held for pretty much the whole fight. He looks sad and desperate to me as he tries to get up one last time, right before the crack separates them. Then he seems to fall back a little, acknowledging that he can't get to her anymore. He just looks defeated, not angry, not annoyed... just defeated and alone.

Love the parallels though: https://i.imgur.com/RLkfg5C.png

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Gemini wrote:Fizz

Maybe not anger, but annoyance. But that's true, he was angry with Finn and it doesn’t look like that at the end. Or its a look that he knows he's about to die and she knows this too hence her look of concern. Its just the HD version looks so different to the bootleg that I feel like I misinterpreted the look originally

I honestly just see the same lips-parted expression he held for pretty much the whole fight. He looks sad and desperate to me as he tries to get up one last time, right before the crack separates them. Then he seems to fall back a little, acknowledging that he can't get to her anymore. He just looks defeated, not angry, not annoyed... just defeated and alone.

Love the parallels though: https://i.imgur.com/RLkfg5C.png

https://i.imgur.com/5msyyt7.png <---- Kylo makes his last appearance right after the chasm forms between Rey and himself. He's not breathing heavily or seething in any way. He doesn't look angry or hateful, just consumed with thoughts of the girl who punished him. The guy raises his burned, broken body from the snow to continue staring into Rey's eyes... The guy is utterly seduced.

Scarred Kylo doesn't look mad. he looks like he had the best sex ever. Totally phased. he even licks his upper lip, well, does some thing with his tongue.

BTW, scar's pretty damn rad. He looks like a Prince that he is on that image that Fizz linked.

I don't want to be a killjoy, but I keep reading the references to the 'hearts' that seem to be reflected ( or digitally placed ) in Adam's eyes during certain moments of the interrogation scene.
Had to comment...it's the photographer in me coming out....

The below is not meant to make me come off as the jerk face Stormtrooper who kicked your wrench....

Those 'hearts'...

Those are actually a set of studio lights set low in front on him to cast light on his face from below,  particularly lighting under his brows and nose to reduce the shadows that would normally form there.
He has a beautifully photogenic face, and in these close up shots during this sequence he was specially lit due to his prominate features and way JJ wanted to present him unmasked for the first time.

If you look at that image showing just his eyes, you can also see the two other larger lighting fixtures in the background, one being the typical square shaped reflective studio flood lighting fixture used to light the scene in general and another smaller fixture to counter ( or create ) shadow effects.
Multiple lights are used in photography to create certain results, and to remove shadows from objects being photographed if not wanted.
The same holds true in film making photography with multiple spotlights, floods, and reflectives set up to evenly light a area being filmed or create depth with light and shadow.
This is the perfect example.
A conscious effort was made to present Adam and this character in this moment in the best light possible...no pun intended.
It is the only segment in the film where he is lit like this...lit from below and warmly.


We have all commented on how much Adam was made to look 'pretty' in this particular scene introducing his unmasked self, and a large part of how he appears here is how he is lit.
When you are familiar with how Adam normally appears, seeing him in these shots makes him look like an entirely different person.
He is made up and styled just right...and the lighting in particular was well thought out as well to make him look so appealing.
It's great..and really works for the scene and his big unveiling.

It's not digital trickery, just studio lighting fixtures reflected in his eyes.
But you know, it is kind of cool to look at the shapes and see the 'hearts' anyway!

Not a killjoy cause even lights ship Reylo! They gave Kylo hearts eyes while Rey's Force heartbeat was going dum dum dum.

Ha ha....nice!


Well sure, it is just more proof that this is indeed 'the will of the Force'.

Kylo Ren's 8-Pack wrote:I don't want to be a killjoy, but I keep reading the references to the 'hearts' that seem to be reflected ( or digitally placed ) in Adam's eyes during certain moments of the interrogation scene.
Had to comment...it's the photographer in me coming out....

The below is not meant to make me come off as the jerk face Stormtrooper who kicked your wrench....

Those 'hearts'...

Those are actually a set of studio lights set low in front on him to cast light on his face from below,  particularly lighting under his brows and nose to reduce the shadows that would normally form there.
He has a beautifully photogenic face, and in these close up shots during this sequence he was specially lit due to his prominate features and way JJ wanted to present him unmasked for the first time.

If you look at that image showing just his eyes, you can also see the two other larger lighting fixtures in the background, one being the typical square shaped reflective studio flood lighting fixture used to light the scene in general and another smaller fixture to counter ( or create ) shadow effects.
Multiple lights are used in photography to create certain results, and the same certainly holds true in film making photography.
This is the perfect example.

We have all commented on how much Adam was made to look 'pretty' in this particular scene introducing his unmasked self, and a large part of how he appears here is how he is lit.
When you are familiar with how Adam normally appears, seeing him in these shots makes him look like an entirely different person.
He is made up and styled just right...and the lighting in particular was well thought out as well to make him look so appealing.
It's great..and really works for the scene and his big unveiling.

It's not digital trickery, just studio lighting fixtures reflected in his eyes.
But you know, it is kind of cool to look at the shapes and see the 'hearts' anyway!

:)

That's what I thought at first too, but Rey and Ren's eyes were clearly tampered with in editing. They look unnatural (particularly Rey's). The kind of unnatural that could only be the result of editing. Lights were removed/added to their eyes (just like in the final snow fight with the reflections of the sabers). It was done digitally. I'm 100% sure. Whether or not the hearts were intended to be hearts is a whole other matter.

Rey is under a spotlight in the scene, but her eyes are practically completely black by the time she enters his mind: https://i.imgur.com/mLPkBHS.png

Ren: https://i.imgur.com/VpK8oQe.png

Not only that, but the hearts are practically identical (as in: copy-pasted identical, same angle, same pixels, same everything).

Hearts are just fun in the end. There's plenty other evidence and items of interest to discuss and speculate about.

Nice photos there, Fizzgig.

Well it is of course possible there was digital trickery, but I look at those shots and I just see the studio lighting.
Just me, I guess.

Kylo Ren's 8-Pack wrote:Nice photos there, Fizzgig.

Well it is of course possible there was digital trickery, but I look at those shots and I just see the studio lighting.
Just me, I guess.

I just have trouble believing they were studio lights when we know for a fact they tampered with their eyes through editing in another scene (clear reflections of lightsabers in the snow fight). I blew up a few different hearts and they were all the same. Minute differences that can be attested to different photographs, but the angle/shape of the heart is identical in every image, right down to 90% of the pixels.

The interrogation eyes just look super creepy now that I've taken the time to analyze them. Rey's are incredibly unnatural (pure black with a pinprick of light, like demon eyes). That would be better achieved through editing these days than through any clever use of lighting. It would probably be cheaper too.

I suspect a lot of editing goes on that we wouldn't necessarily think is editing... and this may have been one of those cases simply for the sake of practicality.

AnneNeville wrote:Hearts are just fun in the end. There's plenty other evidence and items of interest to discuss and speculate about. :D

Indeed, I'm more interested in the storytelling aspects of this whole thing. The hearts are just amusing. We'll never know if they were fully intentional or not anyway.

I still think they're intentional. Given the amount of tampering with their eyes in this scene and the final sex snow fight, they could have removed them altogether.

Yet there they are!

And it's interesting, yes.
Not trying to downplay it at all....just had to express what I'm seeing there but fully admit that is the photographer in me rearing it's head.

There is definitely a LOT of what is called 'digital grading' done in the film, like a lot of films today.
It is done in post-production and all sorts of things can be added, removed, color adjusted, and visually enhanced.
It is amazing what can be done today with imagery.
I only have a basic knowledge, but the DG process I am aware of.

It is totally possible those 'hearts' and other eye reflections / highlights were placed there post filming, but for the Interrogation I see studio lighting with a blue tinted 'grade' placed over the entire scene.
Still neat however that of all the shapes we could see, it turned out to be 'hearts'!

Indeed, it is the will of the Force.
These two are totally made for each other!

@Kylo Ren's 8-Pack Any chance they started out as blue-gelled studio lights and got tweaked in post-production?

BastilaBey wrote:What do others think about Kylo reacting to Rey in her force vision? Is he there in the moment at the same time as her, or is it possible he experienced the vision at an earlier time? And somehow knows he will save her life in the future? It's all confusing but he must have been aware of a girl before Mitaka, he's far too interested in her from just those 2 mentions.

I like the idea that he once owned the lightsaber so when he picked it up he had a similar experience. So he's had over a decade to mull this thing over, perhaps to the point that he's even stopped thinking about it... Until poor poor Mitaka mentions a girl. This scene happens prior to her Force vision, so I think it's likely he's known about a girl for a long time.

Oh sure...there is of course a chance that may have been the case regarding the lighting.
The lighting looks very natural to me in that scene, carefully placed.
A slight blue grading I sensed when viewing it in the cinema on the big screen, but it may well have just been blue gels.

In my experience, exspecially with fx heavy films, they typically want to shoot at the brightest possible light within the context of any given scene.
The brightness enables the camera to capture all the details of the actors faces and set furnishings.
The actual 'look' of the scene is then digitally applied in post-production through various filters or 'digital grading' which allows manipulation of the colors, shadows, tones, and brightness factors wanted.

In the 'old days', filmmakers did all of this 'in camera' and on the set itself with special lighting rigs and camera filters.
What you actually saw on set, and how it was lit, was 'what you got' on film.
Today it seems films are shot fairly straightforward ( bright sets ) and given mood later on through digital manipulation.
This can create some interesting effects in the lighting and set some surreal scenes brooding with mood.

J.J. may well have harkened back to the 'old school' ways and actually lit the Interrogation scene in the traditional way.
He did talk about wanting to get back to basics and cut back on the digital elements...didn't he..?
So anything is possible.

Disclaimer: I feel crazy analyzing lights in eyes. Somebody save me from the madness.

I don't know anything about photography or studio lighting so I'm not really sure what to think of Rey and Kylo's eyes in the interrogation scene. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when light reflects off a person's eyes in a carefully lit room, shouldn't the same mirror image appear in both eyes? It's kind of weird that Kylo has different light shapes reflected in each of his individual eyes: https://i.imgur.com/Zb32q1i.png Based on this image, I can see the light source is originating from Kylo's lefthand side. His eyes are also quite teary. That could account for the dissimilar eye reflections. I really don't know what to say about the hearts themselves. Has anybody ever seen heart shaped reflections appear in somebody's eyes in a film before?

We know the film crew edited the reflections in Rey and Kylo's eyes on the cliffside in order to achieve a highly symbolic and visually stunning result. It's not a huge stretch to assume Rey and Kylo's eyes were also tampered with here. This film LOVES to play with eye imagery. There are too many examples to discuss. An entire meta can and should be written on the subject. We even have a character who claims she can interpret a person's character, possibly even their thoughts and fears, through their eyes.

> MAZ to FINN: "If you live long enough you see the same eyes in different people."

> MAZ to REY: "I see your eyes. You already know the truth."

> KYLO and REY: He peers into her eyes intensely. She meets his gaze -- DESPITE THE PAIN SHE IS STRONG. <--- This is from the moment we're discussing with the <3 eyes. The script specifically references Rey and Kylo's eyes in these shots.

> HAN and KYLO: For the first time, Kylo Ren seems truly conflicted. Tears flood his stoic eyes...

> KYLO REN'S EYES FILL WITH DARKNESS, HE IGNITES THE LIGHTSABER

> Before REY wrecks KYLO: Rey closes her eyes for a long beat.

> IT IS LUKE SKYWALKER. Older now, white hair, bearded. He looks at Rey. A kindness in his eyes, but there's something tortured, too.

Eye symbolism is used to great effect in this film. Kylo's eyes are practically always teary and filled with light. Seriously, just watch any unmasked Kylo scene and you'll see. In the interrogation scene, Kylo's eyes reflect how he sees Rey. She is light incarnate. Make what you will of the heart shape. The shape only appears in his eyes in this scene. Reys eyes, in turn, are black and menacing. They reflect how she regards Kylo. In her eyes, he is dark, monstrous, and inhuman. From symbolic and artistic standpoints, it seems likely that Rey and Ren's eyes were edited. Whether they actually were remains to be seen.

The symbolism in this image denotes the same ideas as Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene eyes:

Kylo Ren's 8-Pack wrote:Well it is possible, yes.
The lighting looks very natural to me in that scene, carefully placed.
A slight blue grading I sensed when viewing it in the cinema on the big screen, but it may well have just been blue gels.

In my experience, exspecially with fx heavy films, they typically want to shoot at the brightest possible light within the context of any given scene.
The brightness enables the camera to capture all the details of the actors faces and set furnishings.
The actual 'look' of the scene is then digitally applied in post-production through various filters or 'digital grading' which allows manipulation of the colors, shadows, tones, and brightness factors wanted.

In the 'old days', filmmakers did all of this 'in camera' and on the set itself with special lighting rigs and camera filters.
What you actually saw on set, and how it was lit, was 'what you got' on film.
Today it seems films are shot fairly straightforward ( bright sets ) and given mood later on through digital manipulation.
This can create some interesting effects in the lighting and set some surreal scenes brooding with mood.

J.J. may well have harkened back to the 'old school' ways and actually lit the Interrogation scene in the traditional way.
He did talk about wanting to get back to basics and cut back on the digital elements...didn't he..?
So anything is possible.

The lighting definitely looks natural to me too, but their eyes really don't.

There are two reasons I would be inclined to believe the shapes were purposeful:

1) The filmmaker's put so much emphasis on Ren's eyes in the movie. He constantly looks on the edge of tears, his eyes shimmering and glossy, reflecting more light than they naturally should. When he kills Han, they drain the light from his eyes (they become dim). The script even says "his eyes fill with darkness". Ren's eyes are meant to be extremely evocative, just like the handsome, human face he hides behind the monster's mask. A ton of work was put into making him look a certain way, and his eyes are his most important feature.

2) They clearly tampered with Rey and Ren's eyes in the choker shot. There's nothing natural about it, and JJ even expressed twice in the podcast that the scene was "all about their eyes" right before he made his famous... description xD

Oh I agree...the eyes have it.

I would say Kylo's eyes are his most outstanding feature in the film.
So much emotion conveyed in them alone in so many instances.
We get precious little on screen time with un-masked Kylo Ren, that it makes absolute sense to enhance and accentuate his eyes when shown.
It is done beautifully in almost all the scenes and the on set lighting plays a key role in creating that.

I can believe that some 'digital enhancement' may well have taken place as well, in some scenes.

Random piece ob"Reylo" info...
On YouTube there is a musical comparison of Rey & Kylo's theme. Seems their music completes each others. It's under Rey's theme, kylo's theme & across the stars comparison.
Relieved to find a safe place to discuss this. I really think there it something special about their relationship/connection.

I've been thinking what if all the Kylo touching Rey's head that was originally meant to be in the movie(but was kept in the novelization)is about Kylo trying to keep Rey calm or something.I mean he's probably aware that going though her had is painful for her(and in the novel even tells her he'll try to be and gentle as he can) so maybe him touching her on such an intimate way(which many would think is creepy)is his way of trying to make her comfortable and not read him.I've said it before but I wish they had kept more of the dialogue from the novelization in that scene.I guess it just makes me uncomfortable thinking JJ Abrams thinks the interrogation scene is a r***metaphor. You just don't do something like that with a heroine you want to dip it as string and coming on top at the end especially since the same argument can be made about Rey mind r**** Kylo which is even more disturbing that's why I don't believe he was honest about the interrogation(or even if he really said it at all).
And Kylo was indeed selfish to keep searching her memories when she was in pain(because going into someone's mind is suppose to be painful) but she also entered his mind and pointed out to him his fear so did Rey entering his mind cause Kylo pain as well?
And I agree with those saying he wasn't angry with her after the fight.If they wanted to they could have shown him being angry with her as a set up for him getting revenge on her in the next movie,but they didn't and I think that's important.For whatever reason the movie never shows Kylo being angry or jealous at Rey emotions he clearly displays when it comes to Finn.