ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 9

SanghaRen wrote:I honestly don't see Kylo going rogue right at the beginning of VIII. If they had not picked up right where they stopped VII, yes, but not this way. I don't see him as that advanced yet in his development. He did show some signs of teenagy rebellion in TFA but this would be a tad too much. If they do that then Snoke is a joke of a villain with his pupil doing whatever pleases him. My bet is on Snoke telling him to go to Ahch-To or some turn of event forcing him to go there.

If we only get a hologram Snoke, who is the villain of plot A in VIII? Only BDT left, I guess.

If we don't get a meeting Snoke - Kylo, I personally still need something showing me what hold Snoke has over Kylo in the form of nightmares, flashbacks, whatever. But to me it's an important component of the story. And I don't mean only the reason why he joined Snoke, but what is the dynamic of their relationship. How did Snoke keep him under his control for the last 6 years? Kylo is a sort of ticking bomb so Snoke must have a very good reason to keep him alive and a way to control him. You don't keep a ticking bomb close to you if you don't know how to stop it. If I don't get some insight on this in VIII, it would diminish the character for me. But I guess that looking at Rian Johnson's sources of inspiration, I should not worry

SanghaRen wrote:I honestly don't see Kylo going rogue right at the beginning of VIII. If they had not picked up right where they stopped VII, yes, but not this way. I don't see him as that advanced yet in his development. He did show some signs of teenagy rebellion in TFA but this would be a tad too much. If they do that then Snoke is a joke of a villain with his pupil doing whatever pleases him. My bet is on Snoke telling him to go to Ahch-To or some turn of event forcing him to go there.

If we only get a hologram Snoke, who is the villain of plot A in VIII? Only BDT left, I guess.

If we don't get a meeting Snoke - Kylo, I personally still need something showing me what hold Snoke has over Kylo in the form of nightmares, flashbacks, whatever. But to me it's an important component of the story. And I don't mean only the reason why he joined Snoke, but what is the dynamic of their relationship. How did Snoke keep him under his control for the last 6 years? Kylo is a sort of ticking bomb so Snoke must have a very good reason to keep him alive and a way to control him. You don't keep a ticking bomb close to you if you don't know how to stop it. If I don't get some insight on this in VIII, it would diminish the character for me. But I guess that looking at Rian Johnson's sources of inspiration, I should not worry

SanghaRen wrote:If we don't get a meeting Snoke - Kylo, I personally still need something showing me what hold Snoke has over Kylo in the form of nightmares, flashbacks, whatever. But to me it's an important component of the story. And I don't mean only the reason why he joined Snoke, but what is the dynamic of their relationship. How did Snoke keep him under his control for the last 6 years? Kylo is a sort of ticking bomb so Snoke must have a very good reason to keep him alive and a way to control him. You don't keep a ticking bomb close to you if you don't know how to stop it. If I don't get some insight on this in VIII, it would diminish the character for me. But I guess that looking at Rian Johnson's sources of inspiration, I should not worry

WhatGirl wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:If we don't get a meeting Snoke - Kylo, I personally still need something showing me what hold Snoke has over Kylo in the form of nightmares, flashbacks, whatever. But to me it's an important component of the story. And I don't mean only the reason why he joined Snoke, but what is the dynamic of their relationship. How did Snoke keep him under his control for the last 6 years? Kylo is a sort of ticking bomb so Snoke must have a very good reason to keep him alive and a way to control him. You don't keep a ticking bomb close to you if you don't know how to stop it. If I don't get some insight on this in VIII, it would diminish the character for me. But I guess that looking at Rian Johnson's sources of inspiration, I should not worry

@SanghaRen

Psychological and emotional torture, I'm thinking. By effectively isolating Ben from all of his loved ones and making him hate himself ("he was weak and foolish like his father, so I destroyed him") he has gained a lot of control over him. But Snoke still didn't trust Kylo enough to complete his training, apparently withholding that training until he proved his loyalty - possibly he thought Kylo would run off back to his family when he got a chance. I mean, there is that tracker in his belt, after all. Snoke's got him on an extremely short leash, totally isolated even from his own identity, it's no wonder really that he feels so trapped and unable to escape.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:I honestly don't see Kylo going rogue right at the beginning of VIII. If they had not picked up right where they stopped VII, yes, but not this way. I don't see him as that advanced yet in his development. He did show some signs of teenagy rebellion in TFA but this would be a tad too much. If they do that then Snoke is a joke of a villain with his pupil doing whatever pleases him. My bet is on Snoke telling him to go to Ahch-To or some turn of event forcing him to go there.

If we only get a hologram Snoke, who is the villain of plot A in VIII? Only BDT left, I guess.

If we don't get a meeting Snoke - Kylo, I personally still need something showing me what hold Snoke has over Kylo in the form of nightmares, flashbacks, whatever. But to me it's an important component of the story. And I don't mean only the reason why he joined Snoke, but what is the dynamic of their relationship. How did Snoke keep him under his control for the last 6 years? Kylo is a sort of ticking bomb so Snoke must have a very good reason to keep him alive and a way to control him. You don't keep a ticking bomb close to you if you don't know how to stop it. If I don't get some insight on this in VIII, it would diminish the character for me. But I guess that looking at Rian Johnson's sources of inspiration, I should not worry

@SanghaRen

If Kylo goes rogue at the beginning of VIII, it's probably going to be in the sense of him possibly disobeying Snoke by skipping out on his training and taking after Luke/Rey as soon as he's got their location figured out...not in the sense that he's going to be any "lighter" at the beginning of VIII than he was at the end of VII.

There's also the possibility that if Kylo got the map from Rey when they had Force sex or if the Falcon had a tracker, we might get a blurb in the crawl about how Kylo told Snoke he knew of Luke's location, and Snoke sent Kylo after Luke immediately--probably hoping that Kylo would get to Luke before Luke went back to the Resistance.

If Kylo does already have Luke and Rey's location (via "finding the Force or whatever") and the movie opens with the ship crash, then I guess we can rule out a Force bond as Kylo's way of finding Ahch-To.

vaderito wrote:
@WhatGirl

Damn right Snoke shouldn't trust him!  :lol: :lol: :lol: Look at him!

He isn't sorry for swapping the droid for the gurrrl. he's sorry that Hux busted him w/o his mask! Even mouths Shoot!



And than, when Hux called him out for his crush on the gurrrrl, he has audacity to think of her! Wistfully! 



Snoke pulled all his hair and scratched his face because of Kylo's sith. It's no walk in the park for Snoke. Nope.

SanghaRen wrote:All I mean is that I hope they don't brush over the dynamic between Snoke and Kylo. We will get to know why he ended up as Kylo. Pablo did hint at it a few times and it makes sense. I just hope they do not forget to explain why a conflicted grown-up man stayed with the big villain. GA does not know about the tracking device in his belt. GA does not do a psychoanalysis of the character. GA would need to sympathize with him. Having the guy go rogue at the beginning of VIII would spur the comment "oh now, he's going rogue, why did he not do that before?" I see the danger of the spoiled brat tagging again.

I think sometimes we are way too far in our ideas of how the characters will develop that we forget there is a GA that needs to be told the story without books, without having seen the various podcasts and the various spoilers and without spending (way too?) many hours on it. End if VII Kylo is in the snow, hurt, having had his a** kicked by the Jedi that some still see as his cousin (or sister) and Hux is ordered to get him and bring him to Snoke to finish his training. I would be more than happy if they don't follow the ESB route and I don't see them do that. Still, picking up where you left off means you have to show the development of the character on-screen. You cannot play with time having given Kylo the chance to digest all that happened and realizing his mistakes and you meet him when he's already sobbered up. Nope. You have to show the sobbering up part. Which to me is actually interesting, but I hope it does not get brushed over in the name of packed action and trying to cram too much story and too many characters in.

I did not expect to get all talkative about this. Guess it was somewhere in me and needed to get out. But I am not worried. Now off to work.

vaderito wrote:@Darth Dingbat Your sleuthing skills required. This person tried to piece together Dubrovnik:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4vqfi8/piecing_together_the_dubrovnik_scene_indepth/

but I trust your skills more. So what do you think?

Darth_Awakened wrote:

vaderito wrote:@Darth Dingbat Your sleuthing skills required. This person tried to piece together Dubrovnik:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4vqfi8/piecing_together_the_dubrovnik_scene_indepth/

but I trust your skills more. So what do you think?

@vaderito

Could you copy-paste it in here please.

I posted this over on /r/starwarsspeculation but I figured I'd post it here as well since it's a leak analysis.
In March 2016, Episode VIII filmed in Dubrovnik, Croatia. Multiple photos were taken by various sources and all of them very intriguing. As they came out, I tried piecing together the sequence and came up with this. I realize not everyone might have noticed what I noticed so I'm posting it all now for everyone to speculate on.
I took the time of day each scene was filmed to place them in order. This is all assuming that the sequence takes place over one night.
Let's start with the first thing happening in the sequence. It was filmed in broad daylight suggesting that it's one of the first things that happens at this location(all other scenes are filmed at night). And that is the boat scene. All we really know is it's a bunch of rich looking military-types on a watercraft or boat of some sort. The camera was pointed at an older couple for the filming so they are likely the centerpoint of this scene. The older lady looks through her fancy binoculars, suggesting she sees something in the distance.
https://i.imgur.com/4vUFtMy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1Styahz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WwUtd2I.jpg
I'm not 100% on this, but I think she sees a water speeder in the distance and alerts the law enforcement. Because in the next picture, we see the imprint of a beached water speeder and law enforcement surrounding it. This was also filmed in daylight, suggesting it takes place not too soon after the boat scene.
https://i.imgur.com/jgXqklO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oSpStza.jpg
Now, some stuff happens (most likely interior scenes), and it becomes night. Long story short, someone (or multiple people) are in a tan land speeder, being chased by law enforcement. There's three speeders that crash in this sequence:
The stationary speeder(which gets crashed into by law enforcement):
https://i.imgur.com/4WaVjo2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JJZDjJS.jpg
The law enforcement speeder(which crashes into some pillars):
https://i.imgur.com/6F0ULZC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eOA98GW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Jm6S8EE.jpg
I know that this is a law enforcement speeder because it's the very same speeder that was on Banje Beach along with the law enforcement officers earlier:
https://i.imgur.com/muGTcnh.jpg
And finally the tan speeder, which is the speeder being chased, crashes into the wall at the end of the alleyway.
https://i.imgur.com/6KIglrK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tSuWObN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NyhTGra.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gaJQsSr.jpg
I used Google Maps to figure out exactly where these speeders crash on the designated alley for the filming. I marked them in this picture, so you can have a better idea of the direction it's going and how the scene goes. The red arrow depicts what direction the chase goes in and the dots where each speeder crashes.
https://i.imgur.com/rjSIl1j.jpg
And then finally, once everyone is gone, Finn and KMT arrive on a long space horse and see the wreckage.
https://i.imgur.com/YB0C6p9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nXhAGFy.jpg
So, what can we gather from this info? Someone arrives on this planet unwanted. They're tailed by Law Enforcement until it ends in a fiery speeder chase through the streets of the city. Could those people be Finn and KMT? Could they have also been in the tan speeder, gotten away, then come back to the wreckage on a long horse?
I don't think this is a funeral or anything like that. I think it's some type of get together between high-class military officials/veterans. Someone arrives there who shouldn't (very possibly Finn/KMT) and is pursued by Law Enforcement relentlessly.
Maybe if we knew what act this sequence took place in it would help us understand where it stands in VIII's story? Well....
https://i.imgur.com/15Ycj7J.jpg
You can see that this is scene 132 in the entire movie (this is specifically the speeder crash scene). Scene 132 in TFA was the Death Gang showing up on Han's freighter. Han's freighter acted as a transition between Acts 1 and 2. Which means that the Dubrovnik scenes are very likely a transition between Acts 1 and 2 (or very close to there). Also, you'll see that this particular shot of the speeder crash is in 48 FPS, meaning it will be shown in slow motion. Just a fun little fact
It also just so happens that the last scene filmed for the movie was this exact same scene (speeder crash): https://i.imgur.com/gusNjdK.png
I know this isn't much, but it's more than what we had before. Even a tiny puzzle piece helps complete the puzzle
If you think any of this is wrong or you want to share your thoughts please comment and let me know. hide

vaderito wrote:@Darth Dingbat Your sleuthing skills required. This person tried to piece together Dubrovnik:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4vqfi8/piecing_together_the_dubrovnik_scene_indepth/

but I trust your skills more. So what do you think?

Darth Dingbat wrote:

vaderito wrote:@Darth Dingbat Your sleuthing skills required. This person tried to piece together Dubrovnik:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4vqfi8/piecing_together_the_dubrovnik_scene_indepth/

but I trust your skills more. So what do you think?

@vaderito

That sounds good to me, but it's really hard to piece it all together - as the person acknowledges, he assumes there's only one Dubrovnik sequence, so if it's all connected and goes from A to B, that sounds like a good guess to me.

But they did a lot of filming in Dubrovnik, so it could be that it isn't like Takodana i.e. they do their thing on the planet and then leave. Maybe they spend a longer time there, or return there again in the course of the film... There was the stairs scene, and the boat scene, and the back alley that was decorated with strange-looking wires, scenes filmed on the city wall (including the scene with the large green screen), and the alien-looking fashion boutique, for instance - was it just background or did they film a scene there? And of course, the interior scenes filmed at the Rector's palace, and possibly (a little bird may have told me) in UK stately homes, namely Blenheim Palace and Alnwick Castle. Plus studio stuff.

I don't think I could guess how it all fits together...

vaderito wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

vaderito wrote:@Darth Dingbat Your sleuthing skills required. This person tried to piece together Dubrovnik:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4vqfi8/piecing_together_the_dubrovnik_scene_indepth/

but I trust your skills more. So what do you think?

@vaderito

That sounds good to me, but it's really hard to piece it all together - as the person acknowledges, he assumes there's only one Dubrovnik sequence, so if it's all connected and goes from A to B, that sounds like a good guess to me.

But they did a lot of filming in Dubrovnik, so it could be that it isn't like Takodana i.e. they do their thing on the planet and then leave. Maybe they spend a longer time there, or return there again in the course of the film... There was the stairs scene, and the boat scene, and the back alley that was decorated with strange-looking wires, scenes filmed on the city wall (including the scene with the large green screen), and the alien-looking fashion boutique, for instance - was it just background or did they film a scene there? And of course, the interior scenes filmed at the Rector's palace, and possibly (a little bird may have told me) in UK stately homes, namely Blenheim Palace and Alnwick Castle. Plus studio stuff.

I don't think I could guess how it all fits together...

@Darth Dingbat

Agreed. Since actors either weren't on the set or weren't in exterior scenes, I guess that lots of work is done in Pinewood. Same as Ahch-to which is why pieceing Ireland shoot together is tough without corresponding Pinewood scenes.

vaderito wrote:

WhatGirl wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:If we don't get a meeting Snoke - Kylo, I personally still need something showing me what hold Snoke has over Kylo in the form of nightmares, flashbacks, whatever. But to me it's an important component of the story. And I don't mean only the reason why he joined Snoke, but what is the dynamic of their relationship. How did Snoke keep him under his control for the last 6 years? Kylo is a sort of ticking bomb so Snoke must have a very good reason to keep him alive and a way to control him. You don't keep a ticking bomb close to you if you don't know how to stop it. If I don't get some insight on this in VIII, it would diminish the character for me. But I guess that looking at Rian Johnson's sources of inspiration, I should not worry

@SanghaRen

Psychological and emotional torture, I'm thinking. By effectively isolating Ben from all of his loved ones and making him hate himself ("he was weak and foolish like his father, so I destroyed him") he has gained a lot of control over him. But Snoke still didn't trust Kylo enough to complete his training, apparently withholding that training until he proved his loyalty - possibly he thought Kylo would run off back to his family when he got a chance. I mean, there is that tracker in his belt, after all. Snoke's got him on an extremely short leash, totally isolated even from his own identity, it's no wonder really that he feels so trapped and unable to escape.

@WhatGirl

Damn right Snoke shouldn't trust him!   Look at him!

He isn't sorry for swapping the droid for the gurrrl. he's sorry that Hux busted him w/o his mask! Even mouths Shoot!



And than, when Hux called him out for his crush on the gurrrrl, he has audacity to think of her! Wistfully! 



Snoke pulled all his hair and scratched his face because of Kylo's sith. It's no walk in the park for Snoke. Nope.

vaderito wrote:@motherofpearl1 Rey won't become a villain but I can see them work together and his becoming anti hero. he'll never be a hero and SW doesn't need more, but it needs anti heroes and I'm sorry but Poe doesn't cut it. I don't even know why some fans think he's a Han figure but he's already good shiny with unblemished reputation, that's not an anti hero.

Jakku wrote:Daisy has expressed apprehension that fans will still like her character after VIII, so we pretty much know that Rey isn't going to be all sweetness and light.  

vaderito wrote:

Jakku wrote:Daisy has expressed apprehension that fans will still like her character after VIII, so we pretty much know that Rey isn't going to be all sweetness and light.  

@Jakku

It may not be about sweetness and light. She won't hook up with Finn so some fans will be up in arms. She may be confirmed as Absolutely, 100% NOT Related to Skywalkers and Solo so that may have some fans up in arms too. But they aren't GA so who cares. GA will like it and they are everything.