Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

[panki]

I think the leak is fake....

- Someone has borrowed from various leaks including the old one with the stormy sky when Rey fights Kylo and falls off a cliff and the Mike Zeroh rumor of Luke performing some major force power.

- Also, if Rey could hear voices clearly in a force nexus like Takodana, then why would she not hear the voices clearly in a force strong location like Ach-to.

- KMT being a bad actress also is weird considering she was quite good in her youtube videos and she beat out some well known actresses for that role.

- Rey being the true chosen one will have people rolling their eyes, and LF will have a bunch of angry people hating SW for wasting decades of their lives over the Skywalkers.

- Snoke being Luke's stooge is also weird....while Snoke could be someone's stooge, it cannot be Luke since the sanskrit lyrics of Snoke's theme sounds like a more ancient evil is involved. The only way this makes sense is if Snoke and Luke are both being manipulated by an ancient evil to cause destruction of the galaxy.

[BenOrgana]

lol, both those guys are full of it!

[Birdwoman]

It seems like the fake leakers end up outing themselves by giving too much detail about the story. The leaker, from reddit a while back, who claimed that Luke was the antagonist in the story. Just stated that detail and that his friend told him who was working on the movie. If Luke is the antagonist, maybe he is being manipulated by a Dark force...at least that scenario sounds better than the big bad.

[ISeeAnIsland]

lol, both those guys are full of it!

@BenOrgana

It seems like the fake leakers end up outing themselves by giving too much detail about the story. The leaker, from reddit a while back, who claimed that Luke was the antagonist in the story. Just stated that detail and that his friend told him who was working on the movie. If Luke is the antagonist, maybe he is being manipulated by a Dark force...at least that scenario sounds better than the big bad.

@Birdwoman

Oh yeah, it was hilarious to see those two arguing back and forth further down in that 4chan thread. They both completely outed themselves as fakers. It also became clear that that gripking guy wasn't even up on current spoilers from SWC/D23

[ISeeAnIsland]

I don't know anything about this poster, although he does seem to be an active poster on other forums over there, but someone on reddit claims to have seen the soundtrack listing for TLJ. (I'm posting this in "crack" for now because I'm guessing this is pretty unlikely to be real. It seems to follow known spoilers/BTS/etc a little too closely, IMO.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/6u471f/tlj_soundtrack_posting_this_from_memory/

Caught a glimpse of what is most likely the soundtrack name list or at least the first draft?

Take this with a grain of salt

   Main Title and The Attack On D'Qar
   Kylo Rens Failure
   Luke's Despair
   Welcome Back
   The Praetorian Guard
   Snokes Warning
   Chewies New Friends
   The Massacre
   Big Deal
   Journal Of The Whills
   Kylo Ren Arrives
   Finn And Rose
   The Force Tree
   Casino Jam
   On The Run
   The Battle Of Crait
   The Eclipse
   Snoke Arrives
   Leia's Sacrifice
   Ben Solo
   Return Of The Jedi
   Prisoner
   The Crash And Finale

[bashfulblueeyes3]

It does sound like every single leak that we know all in order. Who knows?

[SkyStar]

Damn, but that Ben Solo.

[Helix]

At least it's not 'Leia's Nobel End'

[ISeeAnIsland]

At least it's not 'Leia's Nobel End'

@Helix

Or "Leia's amazing sendoff".

[snufkin]

The only quibble I'd have is nothing about Rey in any of the titles? John Williams is the self appointed president of her fan club and on record as saying he doesn't want anybody else writing for her because she's his favorite character out of the entire franchise.

[bashfulblueeyes3]

I didn't notice that, but that is strange not mentioning the lead female.

[ISeeAnIsland]

The only quibble I'd have is nothing about Rey in any of the titles? John Williams is the self appointed president of her fan club and on record as saying he doesn't want anybody else writing for her because she's his favorite character out of the entire franchise.

@snufkin

Yeah, that struck me as odd, too. It also doesn't seem like much goes on on Ahch-To, other than mystical Force stuff (and Kylo Ren arriving)...which would align with what's known publicly about the Force plot at this point.

[snufkin]

@ISeeAnIsland - he's on record saying he specifically wanted to write that score because of her. So no Rey makes absolutely no sense. Even with the fan club joke, Ford and Kasdan love her too and have talked up how she's one of the most important characters in the whole damn franchise. So nothing for the entire soundtrack? Or even for the new characters or Phasma being bigger and badder?

I don't know if it was this thread or elsewhere, but "Leia's sacrifice" for a scenario where it's her, Rey, and Kylo with Snoke where Kylo is forced to make a choice and returns to being Ben. Sacrificing himself to protect the two of them does make sense, both for the emotional connection he has to both of them, as well as how his killing Han hurt both of them. It'd have to be a pretty clear act of atonement. Even the "Return of the Jedi" line with the whole cryptic sentence where Snoke simply mentions that last name, not the individual specifically. Which the writers could have easily put Luke's name there, so that's always an interesting one to ponder. Especially because part of what Kasdan did with TFA was re-set the scene to show the characters in the story arc/challenges he wanted for them in that movie and to close out the OT.

[ISeeAnIsland]

@ISeeAnIsland - he's on record saying he specifically wanted to write that score because of her. So no Rey makes absolutely no sense. Even with the fan club joke, Ford and Kasdan love her too and have talked up how she's one of the most important characters in the whole damn franchise. So nothing for the entire soundtrack? Or even for the new characters or Phasma being bigger and badder?

I don't know if it was this thread or elsewhere, but "Leia's sacrifice" for a scenario where it's her, Rey, and Kylo with Snoke where Kylo is forced to make a choice and returns to being Ben. Sacrificing himself to protect the two of them does make sense, both for the emotional connection he has to both of them, as well as how his killing Han hurt both of them. It'd have to be a pretty clear act of atonement. Even the "Return of the Jedi" line with the whole cryptic sentence where Snoke simply mentions that last name, not the individual specifically. Which the writers could have easily put Luke's name there, so that's always an interesting one to ponder. Especially because part of what Kasdan did with TFA was re-set the scene to show the characters in the story arc/challenges he wanted for them in that movie and to close out the OT.

@snufkin

Yeah, I'll give credit to whoever wrote the list (I'm going on the assumption that it's fake) for the clever ambiguity of throwing "Return of the Jedi" in there at the end.

[Tex]

@ISeeAnIsland - he's on record saying he specifically wanted to write that score because of her. So no Rey makes absolutely no sense. Even with the fan club joke, Ford and Kasdan love her too and have talked up how she's one of the most important characters in the whole damn franchise. So nothing for the entire soundtrack? Or even for the new characters or Phasma being bigger and badder?

I don't know if it was this thread or elsewhere, but "Leia's sacrifice" for a scenario where it's her, Rey, and Kylo with Snoke where Kylo is forced to make a choice and returns to being Ben. Sacrificing himself to protect the two of them does make sense, both for the emotional connection he has to both of them, as well as how his killing Han hurt both of them. It'd have to be a pretty clear act of atonement. Even the "Return of the Jedi" line with the whole cryptic sentence where Snoke simply mentions that last name, not the individual specifically. Which the writers could have easily put Luke's name there, so that's always an interesting one to ponder. Especially because part of what Kasdan did with TFA was re-set the scene to show the characters in the story arc/challenges he wanted for them in that movie and to close out the OT.

@snufkin

Yeah, I'll give credit to whoever wrote the list (I'm going on the assumption that it's fake) for the clever ambiguity of throwing "Return of the Jedi" in there at the end.

@ISeeAnIsland

I'm with both of y'all, it's a clever fake. Not one song title that mentions Rey our hero? I don't think so.

[snufkin]

@ISeeAnIsland @Tex - I think it was @MeadowofAshes' comment, but if Space Bear/Dark and Light/Yin and Yang are the theme the filmmaker's are hiding so far with the teaser and promo, there will have to be a central theme for the two of them and their connection/relationship. That's not on this tracklist either.

[ISeeAnIsland]

@ISeeAnIsland @Tex - I think it was @MeadowofAshes' comment, but if Space Bear/Dark and Light/Yin and Yang are the theme the filmmaker's are hiding so far with the teaser and promo, there will have to be a central theme for the two of them and their connection/relationship. That's not on this tracklist either.

@snufkin

Right. Even if it was something vaguely named like "The Balance".

[snufkin]

@ISeeAnIsland @Tex - I think it was @MeadowofAshes' comment, but if Space Bear/Dark and Light/Yin and Yang are the theme the filmmaker's are hiding so far with the teaser and promo, there will have to be a central theme for the two of them and their connection/relationship. That's not on this tracklist either.

@snufkin

Right. Even if it was something vaguely named like "The Balance".

@ISeeAnIsland

I don't necessarily buy that their respective musical themes are meant to hints or clues about future plot points, because that veers into "play Abbey Road backwards" territory. But if they're central, then that's going to be reflected in the score, especially when Williams has based everything for the entire franchise on specific idioms from both the Golden Age of Hollywood and the various 19th century Romantic composers those films drew inspiration from. I'm sure @Xylo Ren could explain this way better than I can, but I'll throw in something from the definitive and peer reviewed source, Wikipedia

Star Wars often is credited as being part of the movement that was heralding a revival of grand symphonic scores in the late 1970s. One technique in particular is an influence: Williams' use of a technique called leitmotif, which was most famously associated with the operas of Richard Wagner and, in film scores, with Steiner. A leitmotif is a phrase or melodic cell that signifies a character, place, plot element, mood, idea, relationship or other specific part of the film. It is commonly used in modern film scoring as a device for mentally anchoring certain parts of a film to the soundtrack.

Of chief importance for a leitmotif is that it must be strong enough for a listener to latch onto while being flexible enough to undergo variation and development along the progression of the story. The more varied and nuanced the use of leitmotif is - the better the score. Williams uses his themes to great effect, such as subtly concealing the intervals of the Imperial March theme in Anakin's theme, implying his future.

Also important is the density in which leitmotifs are used: the more leitmotifs are used in a piece of a given length, the more thematically rich it will be considered. Film music, however, has to strike a balance, so as to not become too dense for the audience to follow. John Williams' music of Star Wars is unique in that it is relatively dense for a film score, with about 15 themes used in each two-hour film.

If that's an actual tracklist, then some of those titles are place holders because none of them are specifically about the central character for the trilogy and what's her central relationship. Or it was written by somebody making good guesses based off spoilers, but who missed the points about Rey and likely what Kylo Ren's arrival on Ache-to actually entails.

[Tex]

@ISeeAnIsland @Tex - I think it was @MeadowofAshes' comment, but if Space Bear/Dark and Light/Yin and Yang are the theme the filmmaker's are hiding so far with the teaser and promo, there will have to be a central theme for the two of them and their connection/relationship. That's not on this tracklist either.

@snufkin

Right. Even if it was something vaguely named like "The Balance".

@ISeeAnIsland

Exactly my thoughts! So anyone have speculation on what we might get? I'm liking "The Balance" for a title and maybe "Rey's Revelation" or "Rey's Choice".

[snufkin]

@ISeeAnIsland @Tex - I think it was @MeadowofAshes' comment, but if Space Bear/Dark and Light/Yin and Yang are the theme the filmmaker's are hiding so far with the teaser and promo, there will have to be a central theme for the two of them and their connection/relationship. That's not on this tracklist either.

@snufkin

Right. Even if it was something vaguely named like "The Balance".

@ISeeAnIsland

Exactly my thoughts! So anyone have speculation on what we might get? I'm liking "The Balance" for a title and maybe "Rey's Revelation" or "Rey's Choice".

@Tex

It'll be a closing Celine Dion song, like "My Heart Will Go On" : P.

The old discussion, I think The Balance or The Light and the Dark, a la the Abduction were the titles suggested. Another one you'd think that they have to come up with for Rey is her internal turmoil over the abandonment issues and what happened in the past with her family (parallel to whatever happened with Ben and his family) has to be motif/theme for her.

[ISeeAnIsland]

So, the comments on that reddit thread have sort of exploded since I originally posted it. Here's one of the more interesting comments about it:

[–]HJB540 1 point an hour ago

I can't prove what I know so this will probably be downvoted to hell but I am certain that this is fake. A family friend is involved with the soundtrack and he relayed a few titles when we last spoke. Again, I have literally no proof of our conversation so you can either choose to believe me or disregard what I say completely but one of the track titles I was most excited about is "Binary Sunrise" which is missing here. Additionally, there's no sign of "The Supreme Leader's Entourage" and "Poe's Dilemma" which he also mentioned.

and:

[–]dburg25 1 point 56 minutes ago

Anything about the music itself?


[–]HJB540 1 point 23 minutes ago

Not much, in truth - he said that there's a lot of mixing motifs (i.e. the melody of Rey's Theme is subtly blended into a lot of other themes) and that the last track is sublime (it's currently under the working title "Reunion"). He also said that the orchestra had been pushed for time with TFA but that they'd had more time to get the TLJ soundtrack sounding "crisp and clear".

If anyone has a specific question, I can ask him when I next see him but again, I don't feel comfortable asking him to prove himself. He'd probably refuse anyway as he loves what he does and wouldn't want to put his career on the line.

I find the bolded bit very interesting (if true)... Didn't we predict ages ago that Rey's theme would ultimately be blended with Kylo's? And I wonder what else?

[Tex]

It'll be a closing Celine Dion song, like "My Heart Will Go On" : P.

LOL, I'd bust a gut if the credits rolled and we had a cheesy ballet like "My Heart Will Go On" or "I Will Always Love You" by Whitney Houston.

[MeadowofAshes]

@ISeeAnIsland  @Tex - I think it was @MeadowofAshes' comment, but if Space Bear/Dark and Light/Yin and Yang are the theme the filmmaker's are hiding so far with the teaser and promo, there will have to be a central theme for the two of them and their connection/relationship. That's not on this tracklist either.

@snufkin

Right. Even if it was something vaguely named like "The Balance".

@ISeeAnIsland I'd love to see "Ben and Rey", but I'm really rooting for "The Dark Side and the Light" because it mirrors Han's quote about the Force to Rey in TFA.

[snufkin]

It'll be a closing Celine Dion song, like "My Heart Will Go On" : P.

LOL, I'd bust a gut if the credits rolled and we had a cheesy ballet like "My Heart Will Go On" or "I Will Always Love You" by Whitney Houston. :lol:

@Tex

I'm surprised Disney hasn't tried to force that sort of thing on the franchise, it's in every blockbuster movie. And the Houston power ballad (last time I saw Dolly Parton in concert, she made a comment to the effect of "cha-ching" before playing it) was for a Kasdan movie no less!

I always think of Titanic because I went with a friend who wanted to see it and we were the a**holes who couldn't stop rolling our eyes over the other audience members crying their eyes out over Leonardo di Caprio dying. When that song burst on to the speakers, we both started laughing because it was too much. I'm pretty sure the 13 year old girls sitting next to us thought we were completely heartless.

[IoJovi]

It'll be a closing Celine Dion song, like "My Heart Will Go On" : P.

LOL, I'd bust a gut if the credits rolled and we had a cheesy ballet like "My Heart Will Go On" or "I Will Always Love You" by Whitney Houston.

@Tex

I'm surprised Disney hasn't tried to force that sort of thing on the franchise, it's in every blockbuster movie. And the Houston power ballad (last time I saw Dolly Parton in concert, she made a comment to the effect of "cha-ching" before playing it) was for a Kasdan movie no less!

I always think of Titanic because I went with a friend who wanted to see it and we were the a**holes who couldn't stop rolling our eyes over the other audience members crying their eyes out over Leonardo di Caprio dying. When that song burst on to the speakers, we both started laughing because it was too much. I'm pretty sure the 13 year old girls sitting next to us thought we were completely heartless.

@snufkin

I was 22 when I saw that movie. I know I'm probably going to bring gear shame to myself here, but I was crying so hard my face was popping blood vessels and I couldn't breathe.

I basically cry at the drop of a hat though, so there is that...

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