Re: ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11

by vaderito Fri 30 Sep 2016, 5:48 pm

BastilaBey wrote:@saracene Exactly, and Draco is an annoying little twerp but he hardly fills that role. There isn't a comparable dynamic in Harry Potter because Voldemort and Harry have the father and son dynamic.

The thing that I wish people would pay more attention to is what's being set up as the overall theme of the trilogy and how Rey and Kylo fit into that. There's a certain amount of speculation, sure, we only have the first piece. But the first lines of dialogue are about the force being out of balance. Then we meet a conflicted darksider, who's feeling the pull to the light against his will. Then we meet a heroine who seems to be light, but then is tempted by the darkness as she defeats him. They get into each other's heads, see each other's fears. Both are lonely, afraid to leave, can't quite bring themselves to acknowledge their pasts.

What do fans really think is going to happen here, in the event that the two characters aren't related? It's not about cheesy romance, it's about a connection between two force sensitive characters who may have every reason to hate each other and yet seem like they could be kindred spirits. Maybe it just again comes back to people not wanting to be labeled as shippers but I really thought more would have wanted to explore the idea by this point. The movie's been out a long time.

@BastilaBey

Exactly. They are not related and they'll go through trials and tribulations together so that they could finally bring the balance to the Force. Do fans really expect that they will part their ways,like, that Rey'll hook up with Finn, who'll dump KMT, in the last 5 minutes of the movie, and that Kylo'll find a baby mama, to continue the SkySolo lineage, off screen? Or that they'll be unattached Jedi who don't need each other or another person in their life? Any of these endings doesn't ring true but like a change that is made to appease certain groups. Who wouldn't end up satisfied either because such ending is entirely unsatisfying.

by Sylvia Snow Fri 30 Sep 2016, 5:58 pm

I wonder if Kylo and Snoke can be consider as "Bendu" a Force Sensitive who stay in the Balance in both sides of the Force, according to the explanation by the character Bendu from Rebels. I heard the they brought some EU elements back like the concepts of Ashla and Bogan. Also is it just me or Disney starting to introduce more shades of Grey to Star Wars, not simply Sith or Jedi anymore, as if they want people to get use with the concept that is until episode VIII and IX people won't be catch off guard on like "Oh, but isn't he was a Sith?" or Why she didn't become a Jedi like Luke?"

by Xylo Ren Fri 30 Sep 2016, 6:52 pm

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Tumblr_oecadkIx201v5osjso1_540

tumblr: sansacat

LOOK AT THESE ADORABLE KIDS AND THEIR REYLO BARBIE DOLLS

by SoloSideCousin Fri 30 Sep 2016, 8:22 pm

Xylo Ren wrote:

tumblr: sansacat

LOOK AT THESE ADORABLE KIDS AND THEIR REYLO BARBIE DOLLS

@Xylo Ren

Did someone Photoshop that or is that real? Because that is really reminding of 1980s toy ads ... I'm just waiting for the " by Kenner" add on, lol. A few of you will know what I am talking about. Very Happy

by IoJovi Fri 30 Sep 2016, 8:42 pm

@SoloSideCousin I don't recall that add, and I get the feeling we're close in age. Can you give me some hints? Laughing

by Rimfaxe96 Sat 01 Oct 2016, 6:20 am

Some more eye candy:

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Tumblr_oe824cvGTd1r8r604o1_1280

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Tumblr_oe824cvGTd1r8r604o1_1280

(I will never stop loving her artwork honestly, by Subaru: http://01091006.tumblr.com )

by vaderito Sat 01 Oct 2016, 6:27 am

I must order Reylo Barbie and Ken! They look like Disney Prince and Princess!

Loving the art. Should also be posted in Reylo art.

by Xylo Ren Sat 01 Oct 2016, 8:42 am

vaderito wrote:I must order Reylo Barbie and Ken! They look like Disney Prince and Princess!

Loving the art. Should also be posted in Reylo art.

@vaderito

I've bought so much of these two already, but that's what I do. I've always collected Star Wars even when I was young.

These are $45, so maybe adding them to my Christmas list or asking for a Target giftcard will work!

by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2016, 8:59 am

Xylo Ren wrote:
vaderito wrote:I must order Reylo Barbie and Ken! They look like Disney Prince and Princess!

Loving the art. Should also be posted in Reylo art.
@vaderito

I've bought so much of these two already, but that's what I do. I've always collected Star Wars even when I was young.

These are $45, so maybe adding them to my Christmas list or asking for a Target giftcard will work!

@Xylo Ren

Wow...when I compare myself to you guys, I feel as if I'm not a real SW fan.. I don't have a single toy
Maybe I'll buy little BB8 one day Smile

by Xylo Ren Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:04 am

bela.mesecina wrote:
Xylo Ren wrote:
vaderito wrote:I must order Reylo Barbie and Ken! They look like Disney Prince and Princess!

Loving the art. Should also be posted in Reylo art.
@vaderito

I've bought so much of these two already, but that's what I do. I've always collected Star Wars even when I was young.

These are $45, so maybe adding them to my Christmas list or asking for a Target giftcard will work!
@Xylo Ren

Wow...when I compare myself to you guys, I feel as if I'm not a real SW fan.. I don't have a single toy
Maybe I'll buy little BB8 one day

@bela.mesecina

I blame my mom, she was a total enabler when I was younger and just bought us anything we wanted like Pokemon, Disney, Scooby Doo, Beanie Babies, Star Wars...

My sisters and I started collecting action figures after Episode II but always had other stuff before that. I'm keeping my collection for when I have children of my own. Up to like 65 action figures and way too much other merch Laughing

by BastilaBey Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:07 am

I was at Target yesterday and considered buying those but they are just too big, lol. I like that they have figures large enough for kids to play with though, re-enacting the duel would be so cute. I got the black series Rey to match the unmasked Kylo from Celebration.

What is most interesting is the blurb on the box:

In the snowy forests of the First Order stronghold and super weapon, Starkiller Base, Kylo Ren and Rey engage in a lightsaber duel in which Kylo promises to help train Rey in the ways of the Force. Rey refuses and finds a way to connect to the Force using it to continue the fight and put Kylo Ren on the defensive. The fight ends with the planet crumbling beneath their feet due to the Resistance’s successful attack on the Base, leaving both to their respective quests for answers.

Kylo 'promises' and and is 'on the defensive'. It doesn't make him sound too much like a villain.

by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:13 am

bela.mesecina wrote:Wow...when I compare myself to you guys, I feel as if I'm not a real SW fan.. I don't have a single toy
Maybe I'll buy little BB8 one day

@bela.mesecina

I don't have any toys either - I like seeing the way they choose to market SW merchandise though! I've yet to see Kylo and Rey being promoted as outright enemies who hate each other. I find that interesting.

by Irina de France Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:24 am

WhatGirl wrote:
bela.mesecina wrote:Wow...when I compare myself to you guys, I feel as if I'm not a real SW fan.. I don't have a single toy
Maybe I'll buy little BB8 one day
@bela.mesecina

I don't have any toys either - I like seeing the way they choose to market SW merchandise though! I've yet to see Kylo and Rey being promoted as outright enemies who hate each other. I find that interesting.

@WhatGirl

I just have the Pop figurines of Rey, Finn and unmasked!Kylo. Let me tell you: unmasked!Kylo's hair is ridiculously well-done to the point it's actually hilarious XD I put the picture under spoilers since it's a bit big:

Spoiler:

by vaderito Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:42 am

Kylo hair gets most attention of all SW hair. he's definitely a Disney Prince(ss).

by Starchaser Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:43 am

WhatGirl wrote:
Sylvia Snow wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm thinking that Rey looked back because, maybe, if Hux hadn't come to get Kylo in time, she might've gone back for him. On the Falcon.

You don't stop and waste precious seconds on a collapsing planet to check if your 'enemy' is safe unless you intend on doing something about it if he isn't, tbh.
@WhatGirl

Oh God, Yes!!! I think just before she about to go on the Falcon, it's then that she think of Kylo whom she left on the other side. Now I want this situation happens again in episode 8 in a different way but this time she will come back for him
@Sylvia Snow

She hasn't been tested on this yet and I think she will be. In tfa there was no need for her to consider saving Kylo since Hux got there in time on Snoke's orders. But another situation will probably come along in which a choice will have to be made and there won't be anyone but Rey to bail him out. I have no evidence but I get the feeling that Kylo will not be left behind on Ahch-To if they need to evacuate for whatever reason.

@WhatGirl

About that….. sorry if the conversation moved on, or if this point was already made, I haven't logged on for months so someone else might have discussed it before. But I think it's an interesting idea, so please bear with me.

I had a "revelation" today and now I'm positive that Rey looked back at Ren hoping that he'll survive. She needs him to survive in order to not become a monster herself.

Because what happens at the edge of the cliff is similar to what happened on the bridge. Only this time, Ren has taken Han's place and Rey has taken Ren's place.

Han asks Ren to come home despite what he did and what might have happened between the 2 of them. We know that Ren is not a psychopath, so it's safe to assume that he wouldn't kill his father just to appease Snoke. He has good reasons to despise his father, so something must have happened in the past. I'm not saying that Han deserved to die, of course not. But he wasn't completely innocent either. Anyway, Han doesn't care about the past and just wants his son back. And his son seems to understand him, and acts as if he might actually do it. Han trusts him when he grabs the lightsaber, but Ren is overcome by the dark side and betrays and kills his father. Yes, this was Ren's plan all along, but he was very conflicted, so there was a chance for him to go home.

Now onto the cliff. Ren asks Rey to be her teacher (in other words, to come with him) despite what has happened in the past. Rey ran away from him much like HE ran from his family, but he wants her back, just like his father did with him (parallel no 1).

Rey stops and focuses on the force, and (I believe) enters Ren's mind. This would explain why she was so good with a lightsaber all of a sudden. Also, why she opens her eyes with no traces of fear or hate. She saw inside his mind, she saw that he's not some creature consumed by darkness, she knows there's still light in there. She understands Ren and considers his offer, just like Ren did with his father (parallel no 2).

Then Rey remembers what happened in the past, and is overcome by anger and a desire for vengeance. Again, just like Ren did with his father (parallel no 3).

She's overcome by the dark side, and she attacks Ren. Before this Ren looks at her with trust, like his father did with him (parallel no 4). He believes that she might say yes, and he's shocked at what she does later.

And if Rey entered Ren's mind, it's because he let her. He wouldn't be taken by surprise again, he knows what he's dealing with this time. And this is much like Han grabbing Ren's lightsaber when he offered it, right before it was used against him (parallel no 5). Han trusted Ren to not ignite that lightsaber, Ren trusted Rey to not use his own mind against him.

But she does, betraying him, like HE did with Han (parallel no 6).

Then she attacks him, defeats him, and comes close to killing him while he's defenseless. She stops herself in time, proving that's she's stronger (emotionally) than Ren. But not before she renders him completely helpless. Then the ground splits, and she comes back to her senses. The dark side is gone, and she's horrified by what she almost did, much like Ren after Han's death (parallel no 7). Meanwhile, Ren just looks at her, no trace of anger or resentment in his stare. He forgives her, just like Han did with him (parallel no Cool

.

And the reason why Rey is horrified is because she now understands how strong the dark side really is. How easily it can twist a person into becoming a cold blooded murderer. Despite how good and pure she is, she could have become a monster herself. She used Ren's own mind against him and hurt him when he was already disarmed and too tired to fight. If she would have killed him she would have effectively become him.

Of course, if Ren just left her alone, she wouldn't have ended up in that situation in the first place, so it's all his fault. But then again, if Han had left Ren alone, HE wouldn't have become a monster (parallel no 9). By the way, Snoke told Ren to bring the girl much like Leia told Han to bring her son (parallel no 10). And both of them failed miserably (parallel no 11).

But wait, there's more.

Like Han and Ren before her, Rey becomes a beseecher. She goes after Luke in order to bring him home (parallel no 12). Then she hands him the lighsaber like Ren did with Han (parallel no 13, although it's in reverse, here the beseecher hands the lightsaber). And if the story keeps rhyming from this point on, Rey will be rejected. She's about to find out what it's like to be left alone with the dark side and Snoke. I'm not saying that Luke will just tell her to go home. But he might not be willing to train her in the ways she needs it. He might not know how to deal with someone who is surrounded by the dark side. WE KNOW he couldn't do it before, and it's possible that nothing changed. Lucky her, there's someone who can help with that. Rey broke the "beseecher dies" cycle when she decided against killing Ren, so when the time comes for her to be abandoned and (possibly) close to death, she'll have something to fall on.

And this will happen either if she likes it or not, even if she absolutely doesn't want Ren's help. If my theory is correct, Rey will never even think about killing Ren unless she absolutely has to, if he forces her into a corner and threatens her life. Last time she was close to doing that she almost fell to the dark side, and chances are she's traumatized. And I'm 100% sure Ren won't try to fight her (I have a theory on him too), so when he comes after her she'll be pretty much stuck with him.

Oh and another thing. If Ren goes to that island acting as if he's completely soulless and evil (and I believe he will, even though he won't attack Rey), Rey will believe that it's her fault, that she indeed managed to kill him in a way. Which will only make her struggle with the dark side that more difficult. She left him on Starkiller with nowhere to go but back to Snoke, who, as far as she knows, might have snuffed out the light regardless of what Ren wanted.

This is why I believe that Rey will be the one to reach out to Ren mentally. He'll go after her physically, but she will be the one to initiate an emotional connection. She pretty much has to, she has to prove that he's not gone, mostly to herself. Many believe that if Reylo will happen it will be because Ren manages to wear Rey down by bombarding her mind, but I'm sure it will be the other way around. Rey will go in looking for the light and it will backfire spectacularly. Ren will be the reluctant one, SHE will wear HIM down. Let's see people yelling "Rey is a victim!!" then.

And I'm positive that if they do go for Reylo (I'm 99% sure they will), it will be full blown Reylo in episode 8. I'm talking kisses and at least one fade to black. They're not going to go slow with this, there's no reason to, the insanity would be too entertaining. The buildup might be slow, but they'll open up the gates of Reylo hell eventually. I know that many Reylo fans believe that they'll only get a kiss at the end of episode 9 (if they're lucky), but that would only be the case if Reylo would be the main purpose of the story. The battle between light and dark goes beyond what happens between 2 people, as important as they might be. They won't spend 2 movies making people wonder "will they or won't they", the stakes are higher than that. The relationships will be well established at the beginning of episode 9, at this point everyone will fight to stay alive and, if they're lucky, together. This is when relationships are tested, while the battle between light and dark is at its worst.

I know that this might sound outrageous to many, and I blame the deranged people (can I say that?) who yell "Reylo is disgusting" every chance they get. After so many insults, even people who believe that Reylo will happen have started to think that the filmmakers won't have the guts to have Rey and Rey hugging or, god forbid, kissing. Because Kylo Ren is a crazy murderer who has to pay for his sins before getting a chance to be with Rey bla bla…..

Also, the pacing of episode VII is so fast that most fans imagine that the entire trilogy will only span a few weeks at most. But episode 8 alone might cover months. And in the grand scheme of things, episode 7 is just an introduction. It set things in motion but it didn't decide anything. The events in episode 7 won't drive the entire trilogy, the story will become much more complex. The galaxy has bigger problems than Ren's redemption (which, by the way, I believe to be halfway there already) or whether Rey can love a murderer. It's the burning hate towards Reylo that makes it seem like such a big issue when it absolutely isn't. Ren isn't just a murderer, Rey isn't a holy golden soul, and getting them together would be extremely easy. And there's no way the filmmakers won't go there, it's the low hanging but GOLDEN apple. The tall, dark, handsome monster and the pretty ray of light that brightens the entire world. Song as old as time. Could it be MORE obvious? And I say this, when in doubt look at a gif of Ren taking off his helmet. All you see is LIPS. Those are there for a reason, they'll be put to good use. In episode 8.

I'll stop here. My point is Rey feels bad about what she did to Ren so of course she's going to look back and hope he survives. I don't know if she would have taken him with her, I mean Chewbacca was there....but who knows, she's crazy enough to argue with an angry wookie :-) She has a bad temper and she was in shock, so anything is possible.

by EchoBase Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:49 am

@Starchaser: excellent post!

by Irina de France Sat 01 Oct 2016, 9:57 am

@Starchaser Agreed, this is brilliant! cheers

by vaderito Sat 01 Oct 2016, 10:12 am

@Starchaser This is such a brilliant new POV. I honestly thought we discussed all angles but this one, that Rey and Kylo parallel Kylo and Han, is just fantastic. I think that we all were thinking that Rey saw herself becoming a monster like Kylo, and gaining deeper understanding that slip into the Dark Side could happen to her and easier than she thought, but we never articulated it this well and we didn't think of parallels with Kylo and Han that put Rey in Kylo's position and Kylo in Han's. Fantastic meta! cheers

by Starchaser Sat 01 Oct 2016, 10:20 am

vaderito wrote:@Starchaser This is such a brilliant new POV. I honestly thought we discussed all angles but this one, that Rey and Kylo parallel Kylo and Han, is just fantastic. I think that we all were thinking that Rey saw herself becoming a monster like Kylo, and gaining deeper understanding that slip into the Dark Side could happen to her and easier than she thought, but we never articulated it this well and we didn't think of parallels with Kylo and Han that put Rey in Kylo's position and Kylo in Han's. Fantastic meta!

@vaderito

Thank you :-) And all these manips are just stunning!

by Xylo Ren Sat 01 Oct 2016, 10:49 am

@StarChaser

"If my theory is correct, Rey will never even think about killing Ren unless she absolutely has to, if he forces her into a corner and threatens her life."

This theory is confirmed by Making Star Wars spoilers, if we are to believe the reports from Jason's podcast saying Luke tells Rey to kill Kylo and she doesn't want to do it. I believe the rest of your perspectives are spot on as well. I hadn't thought of the parallels to Han, but you've caught them all!

I also like how you said Rey will reach out first. Many of us believe Luke will reject her, why would he be hiding out on an island if he wanted to help the Resistance in any way? He'd be there with Leia in that case. We're not even sure Rey wants more of the Force. This is also backed up by the deleted scene where Rey is supposedly thinking about Finn as they patch him up, but something off in her faraway expression makes many believe that she was replaying her fight with Kylo in the snow.

by BastilaBey Sat 01 Oct 2016, 10:58 am

Reading The Power of Myth at the moment, and wanted to share a passage – apologies, it’s a little long so I’ll put it under a spoiler – about the Holy Grail because we’ve talked about the courtly knight elements in TFA before and how that can be considered romantic in its own way. Makes me wonder if that medieval notion of spirit and nature is being combined with Jungian theory in the trilogy, as a way to achieve the balance between good and evil.

Spoiler:

Some of the most interesting comments

Joseph Campbell wrote:The wound is the wound of my passion and the agony of my love for this creature. The only one who can heal me is the one who delivered the blow. That's a motif that appears in symbolic form in many medieval stories of the lance that delivers a wound. It is only when that lance can touch the wound again that the wound can be healed.

One early writer says that the Grail was brought from heaven by the neutral angels. You see, during the war in heaven between God and Satan, between good and evil, some angelic hosts sided with Satan and some with God. The Grail was brought down through the middle by the neutral angels. It represents that spiritual path that is between pairs of opposites, between fear and desire, between good and evil.

The Grail becomes symbolic of an authentic life that is lived in terms of its own volition, in terms of its own impulse system, that carries itself between the pairs of opposites of good and evil, light and dark. One writer of the Grail legend starts his long epic with a short poem saying, "Every act has both good and evil results." Every act in life yields pairs of opposites in its results. The best we can do is lean toward the light, toward the harmonious relationships that come from compassion with suffering, from understanding the other person. This is what the Grail is about. And this is what comes out in the romance.

by vaderito Sat 01 Oct 2016, 11:08 am

Xylo Ren wrote:@StarChaser

"If my theory is correct, Rey will never even think about killing Ren unless she absolutely has to, if he forces her into a corner and threatens her life."

This theory is confirmed by Making Star Wars spoilers, if we are to believe the reports from Jason's podcast saying Luke tells Rey to kill Kylo and she doesn't want to do it. I believe the rest of your perspectives are spot on as well. I hadn't thought of the parallels to Han, but you've caught them all!

I also like how you said Rey will reach out first. Many of us believe Luke will reject her, why would he be hiding out on an island if he wanted to help the Resistance in any way? He'd be there with Leia in that case. We're not even sure Rey wants more of the Force. This is also backed up by the deleted scene where Rey is supposedly thinking about Finn as they patch him up, but something off in her faraway expression makes many believe that she was replaying her fight with Kylo in the snow.

@Xylo Ren

I think that what Luke is trying to do is much bigger than just helping the Resistance. think about it as Luke doing Frodo work, while helping the Resistance would be freeing a village from Orcs but you know that without destroying the One Ring you are just buying time until next wave of invasion and that'll go on and on with no end in sight. So, IMO, it isn't that he gave up but that he isn't useful at the Resistance base, at least not before finding whatever he's looking for. It's like, I need to fix the Force before I fix everything else otherwise nothing will be fixed.

As for his urging Rey to kill Kylo, I'd wait to see the actual scene and what he actually says. because something could be lost in translation. Jedi and FS types like to speak in what I call AmbiguoLingo so one should proceed with caution before drawing on conlcusions. For exmaple, this is an actual exchange in ROTJ:

Luke: There is still good in him.
Obi-Wan: He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.
Luke: I can't do it, Ben.
Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.
Luke: I can't kill my own father.
Obi-Wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

OB1's never said "You must kill Vader" he said "you must face Vader". Luke thought that face = kill but that's Luke. Sure, the next sentence does sound like OB1 thinks that without killing Vader all hope is gone. But he never explicitly says "kill him". And, again, he may have been speaking from certain point of view. Kill Vader so Anakin could live. So based on that, I suggest we wait and see how Luke words it.

Of course, we can speculate and lets say Luke indeed tells Rey to kill Kylo. It could mean anything from certain POV (kill Kylo, free Ben) to kill = kill, to

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Faith-and-life-5-638

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Faith-and-life-5-638

you know, testing her faith.

@BastilaBey Those parts about only the one inflicting the wound can heal the wound are fantastic and very Reylo. And so is this passage:

MOYERS: Love is right in front of me. Amor is the path directly before me, the eyes --

CAMPBELL: -- the meeting of the eyes, that idea. "So through the eyes love attains the heart: / For the eyes are the scouts of the heart."

Rey and Kylo always look into each other's eyes longer than it's necessary.

And this part about the grail is very much like the balance of the Force. Very much:

What that means is that the Christian separation of matter and spirit, of the dynamism of life and the realm of the spirit, of natural grace and supernatural grace, has really castrated nature. And the European mind, the European life, has been, as it were, emasculated by this separation. The true spirituality, which would have come from the union of matter and spirit, has been killed. And then what did the pagan represent? He was a person from the suburbs of Eden. He was regarded as a nature man, and on the head of his lance was written the word "Grail." That is to say, nature intends the Grail. Spiritual life is the bouquet, the perfume, the flowering and fulfillment of a human life, not a supernatural virtue imposed upon it.

And so the impulses of nature are what give authenticity to life, not the rules coming from a supernatural authority -- that's the sense of the Grail.

MOYERS: Is this what Thomas Mann meant when he talked about mankind being the noblest work because it joins nature and spirit?
CAMPBELL: Yes.

MOYERS: Nature and spirit are yearning for each other to meet in this experience. And the Grail that these romantic legends were searching for is the union once again of what has been divided, the peace that comes from joining.

CAMPBELL: The Grail becomes symbolic of an authentic life that is lived in terms of its own volition, in terms of its own impulse system, that carries itself between the pairs of opposites of good and evil, light and dark. One writer of the Grail legend starts his long epic with a short poem saying, "Every act has both good and evil results." Every act in life yields pairs of opposites in its results. The best we can do is lean toward the light, toward the harmonious relationships that come from compassion with suffering, from understanding the other person. This is what the Grail is about. And this is what comes out in the romance

by BastilaBey Sat 01 Oct 2016, 11:40 am

@vaderito Yep, it all fits with the theme of balance in the ST.

And

MOYERS: What was it Jung said -- that the soul cannot exist in peace until it finds its other, and the other is always a you? Is that what the romantic --

CAMPBELL: Yes, exactly, romance. That's romance. That's what myth is all about.

I mean, come on now. Meeting 'the other', the opposite, Rey meeting the animus.

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Tumblr_inline_o3par0CoyM1u3rtsu_500

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11 - Page 2 Tumblr_inline_o3par0CoyM1u3rtsu_500

by vaderito Sat 01 Oct 2016, 11:45 am

BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito Yep, it all fits with the theme of balance in the ST.

And

MOYERS: What was it Jung said -- that the soul cannot exist in peace until it finds its other, and the other is always a you? Is that what the romantic --

CAMPBELL: Yes, exactly, romance. That's romance. That's what myth is all about.

I mean, come on now. Meeting 'the other', the opposite, Rey meeting the animus.

@BastilaBey

hell yeah! Heroine journey!

Hero or heroine journey will always contain romance. In modern times, some may scoff at romance, but they are huge minority, definitely not big enough to impose a No Romance Rule in Hero(ine) Journey. It's a part of the journey and it'll remain a more prominent part of heroine journey.

by Lily Snape Sat 01 Oct 2016, 12:05 pm

@StarChaser -- this is terrific. I thought that she understood Kylo better after standing over him, feral and almost snarling, with the voice in her head, feeling like she wanted to kill him even though he was by then defenseless. I mean, Rey did take out some anonymous storm troopers, but this is Han's son. She knows how badly his father wanted him redeemed. And she already knows him better than she ever wanted to-- including, I'm sure, his turmoil and conflict and doubt. No wonder the rumor is that she won't want to kill him in VIII-- she made that choice at the end of VII. I love the idea of her going after him, trying to find the Light. I always assumed she'd be the one to initiate anything romantic, partly because we don't need a repeat of his parents in which Han was the pursuer, and partly to show (after all the stuff he did that she fled and resisted) that she really is interested in him, not the stereotypical "Baby It's Cold Outside" kind of thing.

@snufkin -- Darth Boyfriend for the win!!! Smile

And thanks for posting that discussion. Now I need to check out the rest of the site.

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