ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:@teltaru "She sort of lets it in" means that she let in both the Force and him (cause context is that she closed her eyes and he was looking at her, was there with her). Now, it would've been a possible stretch had it not been for Daisy's quote:"when we were finding the Force or whatever." It's the same thing. It's 2 of them finding the Force "or whatever". Oops. She acted like "whatever" was a slip of some kind. But anyway, the scene isn't Rey finding the Force by herself but together with Kylo, "sort of lets it [him] in".

@vaderito

Yeah I get how Daisy's comment can be interpreted as a slip, I agree that her reaction sounds suspicious, although it doesn't say "together" as it is sometimes misquoted. Not really seeing the "let him in" part, but thanks for elaborating.

@teltaru

Well, "we were finding the Force" is together but you are right, it isn't in the actual quote. "We", however, is.

Now, bigger question is why some Finn fans insist that Finn is FS when the Force doesn't know nor care who he is. It's funny that Reylos have to explain everything and find exact quotes and evidence and still won't be believed, but fans of other characters and pairings can come up with the most far-fetched theories and they'll be agreed with without question. I don't mean you but just using an opportunity to comment on the situation in general.

vaderito wrote:

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:@teltaru "She sort of lets it in" means that she let in both the Force and him (cause context is that she closed her eyes and he was looking at her, was there with her). Now, it would've been a possible stretch had it not been for Daisy's quote:"when we were finding the Force or whatever." It's the same thing. It's 2 of them finding the Force "or whatever". Oops. She acted like "whatever" was a slip of some kind. But anyway, the scene isn't Rey finding the Force by herself but together with Kylo, "sort of lets it [him] in".

@vaderito

Yeah I get how Daisy's comment can be interpreted as a slip, I agree that her reaction sounds suspicious, although it doesn't say "together" as it is sometimes misquoted. Not really seeing the "let him in" part, but thanks for elaborating.

@teltaru

Well, "we were finding the Force" is together but you are right, it isn't in the actual quote. "We", however, is.

Now, bigger question is why some Finn fans insist that Finn is FS when the Force doesn't know nor care who he is. It's funny that Reylos have to explain everything and find exact quotes and evidence and still won't be believed, but fans of other characters and pairings can come up with the most far-fetched theories and they'll be agreed with without question. I don't mean you but just using an opportunity to comment on the situation in general.

@vaderito

I meant no offense.

@teltaru I didn't mean you and didn't take offense. I just used the topic to expand on something that seems to be a fairly standard issue in SW fandom right now. You can never find good enough evidence for Reylo and Kylo redemption, for example, while most inane "evidence" for officially debunked stuff such as Rey Solo, Jyn Skymom, Finnrey, Snoke Plagueis and as good as debunked Reywalker (though this one should go in officially debunked cause JJ's slip was just that), Jedi Finn, etc are instantly believed. It's both frustrating and amusing (think of the meltdown when none of them comes true cause, you know, they were debunked and story never pointed in that direction anyway).

@Vaderito she lets him in because he pushes the force into her and she reacts positively when he does (lol sounds so sexual) this happens 3 times in the movie lmao


I mean look at this expression when they are connected in the interrogation scene once the tables turn lol

Gemini wrote:@Vaderito she lets him in because he pushes the force into her and she reacts positively when he does (lol sounds so sexual) this happens 3 times in the movie lmao

@Gemini

It is sexual. I mean, look at their faces while they are "finding the Force". Those are sex faces. Plus all the panting, heavy breathing, heartbeats in sync. Yeah.

vaderito wrote:@teltaru I didn't mean you and didn't take offense. I just used the topic to expand on something that seems to be a fairly standard issue in SW fandom right now. You can never find good enough evidence for Reylo and Kylo redemption, for example, while most inane "evidence" for officially debunked stuff such as Rey Solo, Jyn Skymom, Finnrey, Snoke Plagueis and as good as debunked Reywalker (though this one should go in officially debunked cause JJ's slip was just that), Jedi Finn, etc are instantly believed. It's both frustrating and amusing (think of the meltdown when none of them comes true cause, you know, they were debunked and story never pointed in that direction anyway).

@vaderito

Every interpretation is coloured by what the person wants to see. I'm Team Switzerland and I don't find alleged evidence for Reylo half as convincing as people here usually do. Finnrey, Jedi Finn folks feel the same way about their theories as Reylos feel about theirs' and there's nothing surprising about it, since none of them are supported by facts, only gut-feelings and wishes (and I mean Reylo, too).

teltaru wrote:

Every interpretation is coloured by what the person wants to see. I'm Team Switzerland and I don't find alleged evidence for Reylo half as convincing as people here usually do. Finnrey, Jedi Finn folks feel the same way about their theories as Reylos feel about theirs' and there's nothing surprising about it, since none of them are supported by facts, only gut-feelings and wishes (and I mean Reylo, too).

@teltaru

That's a fair point. I just think that some stuff has more evidence in the movie than the other, and some stuff was flat out debunked yet keeps coming back while those people pretend that debunk didn't happen. For example, TFA itself killed Rey Solo period and Daisy said Rey wasn't Han's daughter just in case someone didn't understand the movie, yet that theory pops up from time to time and some people are ready to believe it even though the movie itself kills it. Likewise, Pablo debunked Rey as only Leia's daughter ("Didn't daisy answer that?...What? Without Han?"), Jyn as Rey's mother ("They are not related") and Snoke Plagueis ("Snoke is not Plagueis"), yet some people will rather believe that Daisy, Pablo, etc are lying to "protect mystery" than accept that their headcanon doesn't hold and move on. Unless someone officially debunks Reylo, it remains more possible canon than flat out debunked stuff.

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:@teltaru I didn't mean you and didn't take offense. I just used the topic to expand on something that seems to be a fairly standard issue in SW fandom right now. You can never find good enough evidence for Reylo and Kylo redemption, for example, while most inane "evidence" for officially debunked stuff such as Rey Solo, Jyn Skymom, Finnrey, Snoke Plagueis and as good as debunked Reywalker (though this one should go in officially debunked cause JJ's slip was just that), Jedi Finn, etc are instantly believed. It's both frustrating and amusing (think of the meltdown when none of them comes true cause, you know, they were debunked and story never pointed in that direction anyway).

@vaderito

Every interpretation is coloured by what the person wants to see. I'm Team Switzerland and I don't find alleged evidence for Reylo half as convincing as people here usually do. Finnrey, Jedi Finn folks feel the same way about their theories as Reylos feel about theirs' and there's nothing surprising about it, since none of them are supported by facts, only gut-feelings and wishes (and I mean Reylo, too).

@teltaru

Do not be angry with me but I do not think that the idea of Finn becoming a Jedi is the same thing as Reylo or FinnRey. Because there is plenty of facts in the move that clearly shows that Finn is not force sensitive person.

vaderito wrote:

teltaru wrote:

Every interpretation is coloured by what the person wants to see. I'm Team Switzerland  and I don't find alleged evidence for Reylo half as convincing as people here usually do. Finnrey, Jedi Finn folks feel the same way about their theories as Reylos feel about theirs' and there's nothing surprising about it, since none of them are supported by facts, only gut-feelings and wishes (and I mean Reylo, too).

@teltaru

That's a fair point. I just think that some stuff has more evidence in the movie than the other, and some stuff was flat out debunked yet keeps coming back while those people pretend that debunk didn't happen. For example, TFA itself killed Rey Solo period and Daisy said Rey wasn't Han's daughter just in case someone didn't understand the movie, yet that theory pops up from time to time and some people are ready to believe it even though the movie itself kills it. Likewise, Pablo debunked Rey as only Leia's daughter ("Didn't daisy answer that?...What? Without Han?"), Jyn as Rey's mother ("They are not related") and Snoke Plagueis ("Snoke is not Plagueis"), yet some people will rather believe that Daisy, Pablo, etc are lying to "protect mystery" than accept that their headcanon doesn't hold and move on. Unless someone officially debunks Reylo, it remains more possible canon than flat out debunked stuff.

@vaderito

I totally get what you mean, but you see, JJ saying that Rey fell for Finn is the new buzz and Finnreys will take it as confirmation, and anything that points in other directions is far too vague to prove them wrong. And who can blame them? Everyone on this forum would take it as confirmation if JJ said Rey fell for Kylo (or the other way around). All ships have their "hints" to cling onto.

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2016/10/19/star-wars-the-force-awakens-changing-rey-and-finns-relationship-with-commentary-3d-release-clip

@Darth_Awakened

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very surprised if Finn turned out to be FS, but I don't see anything that would logically prevent Finn from being FS. The only fact is that there was nothing in TFA to indicate he was FS, therefore he most likely is not.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:@teltaru I didn't mean you and didn't take offense. I just used the topic to expand on something that seems to be a fairly standard issue in SW fandom right now. You can never find good enough evidence for Reylo and Kylo redemption, for example, while most inane "evidence" for officially debunked stuff such as Rey Solo, Jyn Skymom, Finnrey, Snoke Plagueis and as good as debunked Reywalker (though this one should go in officially debunked cause JJ's slip was just that), Jedi Finn, etc are instantly believed. It's both frustrating and amusing (think of the meltdown when none of them comes true cause, you know, they were debunked and story never pointed in that direction anyway).

@vaderito

Every interpretation is coloured by what the person wants to see. I'm Team Switzerland  and I don't find alleged evidence for Reylo half as convincing as people here usually do. Finnrey, Jedi Finn folks feel the same way about their theories as Reylos feel about theirs' and there's nothing surprising about it, since none of them are supported by facts, only gut-feelings and wishes (and I mean Reylo, too).

@teltaru

Do not be angry with me but I do not think that the idea of Finn becoming a Jedi is the same thing as Reylo or FinnRey. Because there is plenty of facts in the move that clearly shows that Finn is not force sensitive person.

@Darth_Awakened
I think in a lot of ways you could compare it to the never-ending parentage debate. People do see what they want to see, but I definitely think it's safe to acknowledge that "Reylo" has not been shot down the way FinnRey, Reywalker, Rey Solo, etc. have. I don't even consider myself a shipper or a Reylo (and I agree with you that a lot of evidence others find very convincing I simply do not... for example, hearts in trees). I don't tend to post much in the more "Reylo-centric" threads here either, but to compare Reylo to Jedi Finn/Reywalker/FinnRey is giving the latter three way too much credit. Not only have they all been discredited repeatedly, they were theories produced before the movie came out by fan speculation and interpretations of promotional material. Reylo on the other hand is a product of the film itself.

Personally, I'm here for a redemption arc and wouldn't be particularly disappointed if certain interpretations of mine turned out to be false. I did see the movie unspoiled and therefore had nothing to colour my interpretations, but it's all a matter of "we'll see". I'm absolutely convinced that Kylo is going to develop positively in some way and "Reylo" will be canon in some capacity (Reylo meaning that the non-Skywalker protagonist will in some way influence the villain). That doesn't mean it'll be the romantic angle a lot of people here are hoping for, but again, we'll see.

Rey fell for Finn? Oh god :/

@teltaru JJ says "Rey sort of fell for [Finn]" which is all fine and dandy when you take it isolated from what what John Boyega said about Rey and Finn relationship ('just friends") and romance in VIII ("not what [Variety] expects") and what we know about Episode VIII which is that

Spoiler:

Big picture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuggets without bigger context

Spoilers for future events >>>>>> interpretation of one past scene

i'm not worried cause future is in my favor.

vaderito wrote:@teltaru JJ says "Rey sort of fell for [Finn]" which is all fine and dandy when you take it isolated from what what John Boyega said about Rey and Finn relationship ('just friends") and romance in VIII ("not what [Variety] expects") and what we know about Episode VIII which is that

Spoiler:

Big picture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuggets without bigger context

Spoilers for future events >>>>>> interpretation of one past scene

i'm not worried cause future is in my favor.

@vaderito

She kinda fell for Finn....and then this happens...



Oh wait she falls again!

Gemini wrote:Rey fell for Finn? Oh god :/

@Gemini
I watched this clip this morning and didn't even register that. She did fall for him, IMO. Just as a friend or companion. You can see that cute look of childlike wonder in her eyes when she thinks she's met a Resistance hero. They become quick friends/partners in crime after this scene. I mean, Finn/Reys can take it as confirmation if they want, but John said he and Daisy weren't playing romance and that the "romance" won't be going in that direction, and I see no reason not to believe him. Also, spoilers are telling us they're on different developmental trajectories (if the end of TFA didn't say that strongly enough).

vaderito wrote:@teltaru JJ says "Rey sort of fell for [Finn]" which is all fine and dandy when you take it isolated from what what John Boyega said about Rey and Finn relationship ('just friends") and romance in VIII ("not what [Variety] expects") and what we know about Episode VIII which is that

Spoiler:

Big picture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuggets without bigger context

Spoilers for future events >>>>>> interpretation of one past scene

i'm not worried cause future is in my favor.

@vaderito

Oh, you don't have to explain it to me. I never thought for a second that Finnrey was going to be a thing, and I think JB pretty much confirmed this. All I'm saying is that if you took the sentence and context and made it about Reylo, people would be freaking out here.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Gemini wrote:Rey fell for Finn? Oh god :/

@Gemini
I watched this clip this morning and didn't even register that. She did fall for him, IMO. Just as a friend or companion. You can see that cute look of childlike wonder in her eyes when she thinks she's met a Resistance hero. They become quick friends/partners in crime after this scene. I mean, Finn/Reys can take it as confirmation if they want, but John said he and Daisy weren't playing romance and that the "romance" won't be going in that direction, and I see no reason not to believe him. Also, spoilers are telling us they're on different developmental trajectories (if the end of TFA didn't say that strongly enough).

@FrolickingFizzgig

Hope that's what it means :/

I mean, damn I hope that's what it means cuz that does not bode well if he means in a romantic sense

It's the director vs what an actor says so in my mind I always put that first. Let's hope it means as a friend. But I would never say I fell for a friend. Weird choice of words if it's platonic :/

The element of shipping is interesting, because to some extent, people will want to just be proven 'right' by the direction of the story. But it's not as if anyone went into TFA with the intention of shipping Rey and Kylo, surely? I certainly didn't, wasn't even aware of the concept. It just seemed blindingly obvious to me by the end of the film that these two characters were set up to be incredibly important to each other's journeys, and it never occurred to me that it was because they would be revealed later as relatives. Their dynamic does not seem familial to me.

Whether Kylo's infatuation morphs into a one-sided love, or is just about Rey as a representation of 'the light' that continues to call to him remains to be seen. I agree with those who say it seems extremely unlikely right now that Rey would fall for him, but that's how a lot of those types of stories go so who the f knows. Kylo's forthcoming redemption seems likely and I just can't see how that would happen without some type of positive influence on the part of the protagonist. Because this has to be Rey's story.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Gemini wrote:Rey fell for Finn? Oh god :/

@Gemini
I watched this clip this morning and didn't even register that. She did fall for him, IMO. Just as a friend or companion. You can see that cute look of childlike wonder in her eyes when she thinks she's met a Resistance hero. They become quick friends/partners in crime after this scene. I mean, Finn/Reys can take it as confirmation if they want, but John said he and Daisy weren't playing romance and that the "romance" won't be going in that direction, and I see no reason not to believe him. Also, spoilers are telling us they're on different developmental trajectories (if the end of TFA didn't say that strongly enough).

@FrolickingFizzgig

Like when Elizabeth Swann fell for Jack Sparrow in POTC:DMC. She fell for the idea of a pirate, not for the man itself (that was Will). Likewise, that's what JJ is saying. She sorta fell for the idea of a Resistance fighter since she never met one, so that felt very exciting to her. But in reality, he wasn't even close to that ideal.

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:@teltaru JJ says "Rey sort of fell for [Finn]" which is all fine and dandy when you take it isolated from what what John Boyega said about Rey and Finn relationship ('just friends") and romance in VIII ("not what [Variety] expects") and what we know about Episode VIII which is that

Spoiler:

Big picture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuggets without bigger context

Spoilers for future events >>>>>> interpretation of one past scene

i'm not worried cause future is in my favor.

@vaderito

Oh, you don't have to explain it to me. I never thought for a second that Finnrey was going to be a thing, and I think JB pretty much confirmed this. All I'm saying is that if you took the sentence and context and made it about Reylo, people would be freaking out here.

@teltaru
If he said it about Rey and/or Kylo I would probably be like "WTF, JJ. What are you smoking?" Because they have no much development to go through that it would be bizarre as hell to hear anybody say "Rey fell for Kylo". More believable to hear "Kylo fell for (or was at the very least disproportionately interested in) Rey", but he would never admit that currently. 

@Gemini
I don't find it worrying or a strange choice of words. Rey was totally enamoured with the idea of the Resistance hero, but the hero was lying to her. That's all he said. You can see it on her face. She was even wearing the Resistance pilot helmet all dreamily and staring at the sky a few scenes before that.

JJ is also not the director of VIII and he isn't referring to VIII here, so no, in this case it would be actor >>> director. You have to keep a level head and remember that Finn and Rey are on totally different trajectories in different plots.

More JJ commentary here, this time on the vision. He compares Rey to Cinderella, which is interesting.

I just hate when directors say something as worrying as this. Director >>>>>>>actors.

As I said, "fell for" implies romance and is a weird choice of words to use if it's platonic and one sided romance.

@teltaru People will always find something to freak out about, especially during spoiler drought.  truth is, we don't need information about how people felt about each other in TFA but how they feel about each other in VIII. And, of course, people who spend more time together have better chance to develop strong feelings.

@BastilaBey Cinderella, eh? I was thinking the other way, what if the saber called her cause Kylo called her? if he saw her in the vision and wanted to find her, the saber serves as a shoe?

@vaderito I'd be wary of taking the Cinderella comparison too far in relation to Kylo, but it does fit the idea of Rey as a downtrodden orphan. And a nice visual parallel with her running down the steps of the castle

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:@teltaru JJ says "Rey sort of fell for [Finn]" which is all fine and dandy when you take it isolated from what what John Boyega said about Rey and Finn relationship ('just friends") and romance in VIII ("not what [Variety] expects") and what we know about Episode VIII which is that

Spoiler:

Big picture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nuggets without bigger context

Spoilers for future events >>>>>> interpretation of one past scene

i'm not worried cause future is in my favor.

@vaderito

Oh, you don't have to explain it to me. I never thought for a second that Finnrey was going to be a thing, and I think JB pretty much confirmed this. All I'm saying is that if you took the sentence and context and made it about Reylo, people would be freaking out here.

@teltaru
If he said it about Rey and/or Kylo I would probably be like "WTF, JJ. What are you smoking?" Because they have no much development to go through that it would be bizarre as hell to hear anybody say "Rey fell for Kylo". More believable to hear "Kylo fell for (or was at the very least disproportionately interested in) Rey", but he would never admit that currently. 

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, I should have clarified what I meant. I stand by my claim that "Kylo fell for Rey" would induce mass hysteria (the very least on tumblr). My point is, I can't blame Finnreys for getting excited.

BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I'd be wary of taking the Cinderella comparison too far in relation to Kylo, but it does fit the idea of Rey as a downtrodden orphan. And a nice visual parallel with her running down the steps of the castle

@BastilaBey

The first thing that came to my mind was "unkar plutt must be the evil stepmother."