ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 11

motherofpearl1 wrote:I have the feeling that right until the very end he really didn'tknow what he was going to do

What always makes me sad is the weird look on his face when Han strokes his cheek....as if affection and human contact weren't things he was used to.
That scene would never have had the same impact if not for that........

Darth_Awakened wrote:Something just crossed my mind, after JJ yesterday s comment:

What would happened if Kylo saw Rey looking at them from above before he murdered Han?

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:I have the feeling that right until the very end he really didn'tknow what he was going to do

What always makes me sad is the weird look on his face when Han strokes his cheek....as if affection and human contact weren't things he was used to.
That scene would never have had the same impact if not for that........

@motherofpearl1

That's the impression that I got. Watching Adam's facial expressions during that scene, I really think that he was leaning towards going home with Han (hence handing over the saber) up until the moment that the sun went out and he ignited the saber.

Darth_Awakened wrote:Something just crossed my mind, after JJ yesterday s comment:

What would happened if Kylo saw Rey looking at them from above before he murdered Han?

@Darth_Awakened

If Kylo knew that Rey and Chewie were watching him, I think things might have turned out very differently.

Kessel89 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:http://makingstarwars.net/2016/10/a-clip-from-j-j-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens-3d-commentary/

a sneak peek at JJ's commentary for TFA!

JJ wrote:People have asked me if I think that Kylo Ren was just playing with him the whole time, if he meant to kill him from the beginning. And the truth is, I think, that Kylo Ren in this moment is actually being convinced to walk away from this. Snoke is, as Han says, using him, and I think that somewhere Ben knows this, but I think he can’t accept it. Deep down, he has gone too far.

@BastilaBey

I appreciate him squelching that "luring" nonsense, but I want to hear what he says after that bit. I didn't even know we were getting a commentary this early. Disney's just going to keep getting more of my money. :-)

@SoloSideCousin

It was in the adult novelization that Kylo "lured" Han to him telekinetically prior to killing him.  That never sat right with me.  In the movie, he's walking in the opposite direction of Han, and knowing he can sense his presence, it's gotta be on purpose.  He's trying to avoid this meeting if possible, while at the same time, not angering Snoke.

The fact that the story group admitted they never read the novelization is very telling.

@IoJovi

Was the luring telekinetically part from the hardcopy version of the novelization?  The reason I ask is that I just went back to read that part of the Kindle edition (it's been months since I've read it and I don't remember all the details), but I couldn't find any mention of it.  I'm really starting to think that the hardcopy and Kindle versions are very different because there have been other discrepancies between the two that I didn't know about until I read about them here.

@Kyla Ren

Yeah, I also have the Kindle version of the novel and I can't find any reference to Kylo luring Han to the bridge. Although in the movie, Kylo didn't lure Han so it's not canon. I have also never heard that the hard copy of the novel differs from the Kindle edition. In what other ways do they differ?

I don't think the backstory will be that Ben was kidnapped by the KOR (although this may have been the story at some point according to the old spoilers that Ben disappeared). Ben committed the massacre as an adult so I doubt there was a kidnapping. I think if he had been kidnapped, the conversation between Leia and Han in TFA would have been different. It also doesn't really fit with Han saying Ben had too much Vader in him.

Currently, I believe the story will be similar to what is "implied" in TFA and the adult novel.  Ben was probably influenced and manipulated by Snoke since childhood (in person and telepathically). Leia knew Snoke was around and saw he was getting close to Ben, although I don't know if she knew at the time how dangerous Snoke was. Ben apparently developed some issues he struggled with (maybe at puberty because he was a normal little boy according to Bloodline) and was sent to Luke to learn to develop and deal with his Force powers.  Snoke must have continued his influence or came back and this finally accumulated in Ben making terrible decisions based on his own beliefs which were greatly shaped by Snoke. I think the Vader reveal may be the straw that broke the camel's back in more than one way.

In the adult novel, it indicates Han was surprised to hear of Snoke's influence and I'm curious if that is canon because the movie is more ambiguous about it (this could be interpreted as true or not in the movie).

motherofpearl1 wrote:I don't know if anyone here has ever read Terry Goodkind's 'Sword of Truth' novels but they featured a group of female torturers known as the 'Mord Sith'. When they were first introduced they came across as 'baddies' of the vilest kind, cruel sadists taught in the ways of pain.

But then it was revealed they were little girls abducted at childhood and subjected to horrific sexual,psychological and physical abuse over a period of years into becoming what they were. Goodkind's novels are very 'adult', and I doubt if SW would ever go that far regarding what happened to Kylo,but I can't help but notice certain parallels in that like him they were first shown as brutal torturers and then later on discovering their history your opinion of them did a complete flip. What is interesting is that their 'final test' in becoming Mord Sith was to kill their fathers.
Most of them were redeemed; they became the hero's bodyguards and his friends.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Irina de France wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:Something just crossed my mind, after JJ yesterday s comment:

What would happened if Kylo saw Rey looking at them from above before he murdered Han?

@Darth_Awakened

That's a really interesting thought! Actually, if you look at the scene, I've noticed that Rey's attention is completely on Kylo during the entire scene. She looks nervous, but also... she actually looks hopeful. And if you pay close attention, Kylo's eyes sometimes quickly flicker towards Rey. One can wonder why...

So I really believe one of the reasons why Rey's reaction to Kylo after him killing Han is so strong is because she has seen his fears. It's heavily hinted she's seen more than "you're afraid of not being as strong as Darth Vader". So I think Rey really had high hopes of Kylo eventually coming to realize he has to leave the FO and go back to his family, because she can see a similar sense of abandonment to hers in him. And heavens know Rey's biggest dream is to find her family again. So when Kylo kills Han, she simply doesn't understand, and it angers her.

It's really not a coincidence if Rey is literally standing in a ray of light above and shining directly towards Kylo and Han.

@Irina de France

I am pretty much sure that Kylo is absolutely unaware of Rey s (and Finn s and Chewie s btw) presence before she screamed.

ZenBrainJam wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Irina de France wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:Something just crossed my mind, after JJ yesterday s comment:

What would happened if Kylo saw Rey looking at them from above before he murdered Han?

@Darth_Awakened

That's a really interesting thought! Actually, if you look at the scene, I've noticed that Rey's attention is completely on Kylo during the entire scene. She looks nervous, but also... she actually looks hopeful. And if you pay close attention, Kylo's eyes sometimes quickly flicker towards Rey. One can wonder why...

So I really believe one of the reasons why Rey's reaction to Kylo after him killing Han is so strong is because she has seen his fears. It's heavily hinted she's seen more than "you're afraid of not being as strong as Darth Vader". So I think Rey really had high hopes of Kylo eventually coming to realize he has to leave the FO and go back to his family, because she can see a similar sense of abandonment to hers in him. And heavens know Rey's biggest dream is to find her family again. So when Kylo kills Han, she simply doesn't understand, and it angers her.

It's really not a coincidence if Rey is literally standing in a ray of light above and shining directly towards Kylo and Han.

@Irina de France

I am pretty much sure that Kylo is absolutely unaware of Rey s (and Finn s and Chewie s btw) presence before she screamed.

@Darth_Awakened

Totally agree, the scene between Han and Kylo Ren is a private, intimate, sorrowful moment between them. Kylo would have done different things knowing that there were witnesses. Probably he would have killed Han showing no remorse at all, because he would have felt the need to show his darkness in front of Finn and Rey. He want to mantain a strong evil facade afterall.

BastilaBey wrote:@echobase I really like that shot Ava suggested. Glad JJ didn't shy away from showing Rey's own viciousness when it came to her kicking Kylo's a**.

IoJovi wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:@echobase I really like that shot Ava suggested. Glad JJ didn't shy away from showing Rey's own viciousness when it came to her kicking Kylo's a**.

@BastilaBey

Cool article.  I was HOPING we would get JJ to elaborate on why that scene is also sexually suggestive, in addition to being Rey's 'self reflective' moment, but I suppose we can't have everything...  

@motherofpearl1 Right?  I hold "Rey is a Mary Sue" right up there with "Rey and Kylo are cousins."  Blaghh...  

“…and especially that moment, with me and Adam, when we were just doing that moment when we’re (gestures with her hands, the lightsabers locking) …beckoning…finding the Force or whatever.



I shouldn’t say that. Or whatever. Yeah, finding the Force, because I don’t know how to describe it. And you can feel the light. And it is that…it is that amazing thing, that you’ve come to know these two colors as representing these two things…”

IoJovi wrote:@vaderito Thank you for the brilliant reminder.  Yes, there are those two little items that I cherish with all my heart....

vaderito wrote:

LOL, you can't have this quote:



every single time. Especially since he must be aware how iconic it has become since he said it.

teltaru wrote:

vaderito wrote:

LOL, you can't have this quote:



every single time. Especially since he must be aware how iconic it has become since he said it.

@vaderito

I've always wondered what made this quote so important to Reylo shippers. To me, it seems like a very basic description of what happened. Could you explain how you read it?

IoJovi wrote:@vaderito Thank you for the brilliant reminder. Yes, there are those two little items that I cherish with all my heart....

vaderito wrote:@teltaru "She sort of lets it in" means that she let in both the Force and him (cause context is that she closed her eyes and he was looking at her, was there with her). Now, it would've been a possible stretch had it not been for Daisy's quote:"when we were finding the Force or whatever." It's the same thing. It's 2 of them finding the Force "or whatever". Oops. She acted like "whatever" was a slip of some kind. But anyway, the scene isn't Rey finding the Force by herself but together with Kylo, "sort of lets it [him] in".