ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 12

@Gemini, you do remember, don't you, that Rey's instantaneous learning was why the Force bond theories originally came about? Because the sharing of skills via a mind meld has been one of the characteristics of a Force bond. This is something that has been seen in SW before (though not in the current canon IIRC). That's why it occurred to so many people at the same time.

It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

I agree. I mean, 95% of canonverse fanfics have Rey training with Luke and being fully integrated into the Resistance, but I feel like I'm the only one who thinks neither will happen at times XD

Irina de France wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

I agree. I mean, 95% of canonverse fanfics have Rey training with Luke and being fully integrated into the Resistance, but I feel like I'm the only one who thinks neither will happen at times XD

@Irina de France

Definitely not the only one. Anything can happen, of course, but so far Rey has been an outlier and has shown no signs of being anything other than an outlier. Kind of like the popular headcanon of Rey, Finn and Poe as a "trio", when she didn't even meet Poe in the film.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Irina de France wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

I agree. I mean, 95% of canonverse fanfics have Rey training with Luke and being fully integrated into the Resistance, but I feel like I'm the only one who thinks neither will happen at times XD

@Irina de France

Definitely not the only one. Anything can happen, of course, but so far Rey has been an outlier and has shown no signs of being anything other than an outlier. Kind of like the popular headcanon of Rey, Finn and Poe as a "trio", when she didn't even meet Poe in the film.

@Darth Dingbat

Like, we will get a Resistance trio, but that's going to be Finn, KMT and Poe (and I'm kind of hoping for Rey/Kylo and the Resistance trio to come together in IX, but hey, a girl can dream).

Irina de France wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

I agree. I mean, 95% of canonverse fanfics have Rey training with Luke and being fully integrated into the Resistance, but I feel like I'm the only one who thinks neither will happen at times XD

@Irina de France

Me too actually. Now that I think this, I just can't help but make a little sigh of exasperation and shake my head a bit when I read really nice fanfics, but have the Luke trains Rey for months scenario.

Haven't seen a fic without that yet.

Irina de France wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

I agree. I mean, 95% of canonverse fanfics have Rey training with Luke and being fully integrated into the Resistance, but I feel like I'm the only one who thinks neither will happen at times XD

@Irina de France

This. Resistance plot and Force plot are very separate in the Sequel Trilogy because the stakes are different. In OT, balance of the force wasn't the goal. Luke was supposed to confront Vader and take him out if he could or whatever. Classic hero/villain confrontation. We've learned about the balance of the force prophecy in TP. But ST has made it clear that bigger stuff regarding the Force are at stake. No balance without the Jedi. First Jedi Temple. New Jedi Will Rise. So characters who can make a difference in that department are not needed in the Resistance and vice versa. They may overlap somewhere but there likely won't be a need for Rey to fly MF in order to destroy another SKB. Poe, Jess, Snap, etc can do that. Likewise, there likely won't be a need for Resistance characters to show up before Snoke, on Ahch-to, etc. It really is more of a Frodo and Aragorn separation of plots.

Some amazing Wuthering Heights Reylo art to lighten the mood:

http://nemling.tumblr.com/post/152549944871/he-shall-never-know-how-i-love-him-not-because





“He shall never know how I love him, not because he’s handsome,Nelly,
but because he’s myself than I am.
Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same,
and  Linton’s is as different as a moonbeam from lightning, or frost from fire.”

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

I think he will eventually but he'll be resistant to it at first. I mean, someone has to (and I don't see that someone being Kylo as nice as that'd be) and I can't see them passing up "wise" teacher Luke to some degree. How much he trains her, though, is up for debate. I don't see her being able to spend a lot of quality time with Luke that isn't rife with tension either between them, or because of everything else going on and Kylo.

And if she doesn't get a good bit of training, prepare for people to complain even more about her being too capable for no reason if she accomplishes anything of note using the Force. And honestly, I wouldn't blame them.

JJ really doesn't seem too bothered with differentiating between mind reading and mind control. They are both Force Sensitive abilities that Rey saw in Kylo's head. She was able to perform them thanks to her own power and talent, but became aware of their existence because of Kylo. Perhaps this explanation is not satisfying enough, perhaps this argument is more about defending the possibility that Rey inherited her strong mind trick abilities from a certain Obi-Wan Kenobi, but likely Rey will always be called a Mary Sue in some circles for her quick learning. That said, we do have an explanation. It was spelled out by Pablo and now JJ. Either way Rey reading Kylo's mind like a book and seeing the mind trick is one thing, being able to perform it is another. And this is not about Kylo being weak at one aspect of the Force... I don't even see why one would assume that when he is clearly quite adept at abilities involving the mind. Saying Kylo is weak with mind tricks is just random guesswork. There is no proof either way, and I think JJ explains Rey seeing the mind trick pretty clearly. That doesn't mean her own power wasn't the defining factor.

motherofpearl1 wrote:It's weird but I really don't think Luke is going to train Rey.

@motherofpearl1

Me, neither.

Remember this?

Meanwhile:

Antis nitpick everything. Over a thousand words of pure Reylo support and all they fixate on is JJ saying that he and Larry K. muled over whether to have Rey kill off Kylo, or let him go at the end of snowfight, before the earth breaks.

So yeah, they must reeeeallly want Kylo dead!

@Echobase You mean this:





they are gonna look hella pretty on that cliff.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:JJ really doesn't seem too bothered with differentiating between mind reading and mind control. They are both Force Sensitive abilities that Rey saw in Kylo's head. She was able to perform them thanks to her own power and talent, but became aware of their existence because of Kylo. Perhaps this explanation is not satisfying enough, perhaps this argument is more about defending the possibility that Rey inherited her strong mind trick abilities from a certain Obi-Wan Kenobi, but likely Rey will always be called a Mary Sue in some circles for her quick learning. That said, we do have an explanation. It was spelled out by Pablo and now JJ. Either way Rey reading Kylo's mind like a book and seeing the mind trick is one thing, being able to perform it is another. And this is not about Kylo being weak at one aspect of the Force... I don't even see why one would assume that when he is clearly quite adept at abilities involving the mind. Saying Kylo is weak with mind tricks is just random guesswork. There is no proof either way, and I think JJ explains Rey seeing the mind trick pretty clearly. That doesn't mean her own power wasn't the defining factor.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Wow the sarcasm just splashed on me.

No, I don't think talent like that is inherited. How could it come from him? She doesn't even know him. It is however a call back to him and not kylo ren because kylo ren does not do this in tfa. Thats  a conscious choice from the director to not show kylo ren do this what so ever in this film, so as not to confuse people about what its meant to represent. People don't see that and think "oh that's because kylos does it" you're meant to draw back to the ot.

I also think it's pretty laughable to suggest that the man entrusted with Star Wars reboot can't tell the difference between 2 different force powers or understand the importance of two different force powers..it's all the same, sure thing. If you say something with enough certainty it makes it true right?

Rei of Sunshine wrote:Meanwhile:

Antis nitpick everything. Over a thousand words of pure Reylo support and all they fixate on is JJ saying that he and Larry K. muled over whether to have Rey kill off Kylo, or let him go at the end of snowfight, before the earth breaks.

So yeah, they must reeeeallly want Kylo dead!

@Rei of Sunshine

LOL, perhaps not realizing that JJ is indicating there that another reylo headcanon might be correct? That Rey was being seriously tempted by the dark side in that moment, and isn't the pure sweet cinnamon roll that so many antis like to think of her as. Of course he's going to point out that Rey could have killed him. She was pacing like a wild animal, snarling, permanently scarred his face and tore his shoulder open.

Tearing the ground apart is a huge neon sign that there is unfinished business between the two of them. And yet for months we had to humor people saying things like 'sweet baby rey should never be let NEAR that monster again, Luke or Finn need to finish him off for her!'

Rei of Sunshine wrote:Guys, the topic at hand is hardly important. No need to bite and claw for 3 pages.

Let's simply put it at "Kylo Ren accidentally help Rey realize her powers."

@Rei of Sunshine

No kidding. Just that JJ said what a lot of us had already thought from that scene. The map is pretext for going into her mind/memories because he's curious af about her and it backfires on him big time. Same with thinking he has one over with her with the teacher offer, she's pretty handy at scavenging his mind for what she needs. Question is if it's a two way connection, what he gets back in return? She was pretty good at nudging both Finn and Han into doing the things they were avoiding/afraid of most and becoming more morally complex/heroic in the process.

In regards to kiss or not in VIII, I think there will be. Not that she agrees to go to the prom with him, but that it'd be very much in character for somebody who's reckless and follows his personal interests. If that his equally morally grey dad (Leia puts him off in part because he's "not a nice man") put the moves on his mother in the middle of a dangerous situation because of it afforded him the opportunity to be alone with her, what's to say Junior wouldn't do the same thing?  Han even offers to "teach" her how to be a woman in one of the outtakes. And the "not nice" part comes back to bite him on the a** because he's eventually captured in part by a bounty hunter for criminal activity which includes murder. The contradiction for him is that he's still basically a criminal/flawed/ "not a nice man" during ESB, but that through his relationship with Leia, he shows both her (and himself) what he is capable of becoming and turns out to be both heroic and tragic, not to mention romantic.

Agreed that the GA needs to have Ben's full backstory and reckoning/atonement set up as the heavy lifting for what comes next. But we already know that he's impulsive af, so that doesn't preclude thinking he can keep on following family precedent. Also if the GA hasn't picked up on the same subtleties that we here love to over analyze, that's a move which would just hit them over the head (no doubt some will still be freaked b/c "they're Reylated") with the fact that there's more going on between them than just enemies. Also given all of the Internet sleuthing @Darth Dingbat has done about locations, you don't spent hella money on romantic Irish locations that look like they're straight out of Brigadoon and Wuthering Heights (including one marketed for weddings and honeymoons) to tell a story about two people who spend two hours learning to tolerate each other's presence, but strictly in the platonic sense.

BastilaBey wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:Meanwhile:

Antis nitpick everything. Over a thousand words of pure Reylo support and all they fixate on is JJ saying that he and Larry K. muled over whether to have Rey kill off Kylo, or let him go at the end of snowfight, before the earth breaks.

So yeah, they must reeeeallly want Kylo dead!

@Rei of Sunshine

LOL, perhaps not realizing that JJ is indicating there that another reylo headcanon might be correct? That Rey was being seriously tempted by the dark side in that moment, and isn't the pure sweet cinnamon roll that so many antis like to think of her as. Of course he's going to point out that Rey could have killed him. She was pacing like a wild animal, snarling, permanently scarred his face and tore his shoulder open.

Tearing the ground apart is a huge neon sign that there is unfinished business between the two of them. And yet for months we had to humor people saying things like 'sweet baby rey should never be let NEAR that monster again, Luke or Finn need to finish him off for her!'

@BastilaBey

JJs commentary also makes it clear that Rey wasn't just going to let him go. So it probably wouldn't have ended up well, thus the ground breaking and taking the choice away from them.

Does this really suggest that she'll be out to kill him when they meet again and the choice inevitably comes up again? I think it suggests the opposite. They're not going to arrive back at the exact same place again after the split of fate, because that isn't narratively satisfying.

Hey guys. Just got the news about what JJ said. Ahhh lol. I'm so excited. :-)

So some people think they have a force bond and now some don't. What do you all think?

Here's from the script that makes me suspect that they have a force bond.

They're both surprised: they react to a feeling that passes between them--an energy they recognize in each other.

And then it's gone. Adversaries again.


What are all of your opinions on this. I'm curious. Thanks :-)

I am as well on "no training" band wagon. For some time now.
First and foremost it is something that everybody expect given ESB.
Then several rumors of changing in the nature of the old jedi way in ST just adds to that notion.
Maybe Luke would be reluctant, maybe Rey would not want that at all, or simply Disney prince arrives too soon.

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:JJ really doesn't seem too bothered with differentiating between mind reading and mind control. They are both Force Sensitive abilities that Rey saw in Kylo's head. She was able to perform them thanks to her own power and talent, but became aware of their existence because of Kylo. Perhaps this explanation is not satisfying enough, perhaps this argument is more about defending the possibility that Rey inherited her strong mind trick abilities from a certain Obi-Wan Kenobi, but likely Rey will always be called a Mary Sue in some circles for her quick learning. That said, we do have an explanation. It was spelled out by Pablo and now JJ. Either way Rey reading Kylo's mind like a book and seeing the mind trick is one thing, being able to perform it is another. And this is not about Kylo being weak at one aspect of the Force... I don't even see why one would assume that when he is clearly quite adept at abilities involving the mind. Saying Kylo is weak with mind tricks is just random guesswork. There is no proof either way, and I think JJ explains Rey seeing the mind trick pretty clearly. That doesn't mean her own power wasn't the defining factor.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Wow the sarcasm just splashed on me.

No, I don't think talent like that is inherited. How could it come from him? She doesn't even know him. It is however a call back to him and not kylo ren because kylo ren does not do this in tfa. Thats  a conscious choice from the director to not show kylo ren do this what so ever in this film, so as not to confuse people about what its meant to represent. People don't see that and think "oh that's because kylos does it" you're meant to draw back to the ot.

I also think it's pretty laughable to suggest that the man entrusted with Star Wars reboot can't tell the difference between 2 different force powers or understand the importance of two different force powers..it's all the same, sure thing. If you say something with enough certainty it makes it true right?

@Gemini
But I didn't even say JJ "thought" they were the same thing??? I said he doesn't really differentiate. I figured it would be obvious enough that I was referring directly and only to the commentary. It doesn't matter though, I'm done with this already. Bringing up Obi-Wan was a mistake (I was 100% on the money about this being about defending the Kenobi theory in some way). I shouldn't have even responded and I won't be doing it again. Bye.

@Frolickingfizzgig

Yes bringing it up and assuming that people think she does the trick because she's a kenobi and it's inherited was jumping to conclusions and did not need to be brought up.

It would be pretty lame if she drew that power just because she's a kenobi like it's inheritance, that's just as bad as saying the strength only comes from kylo in my eyes, it has to be from herself imo. That's what I was debating about in here the whole time. Not that it's drawn from kenobi or something. And it's pissing me off seeing the same snide jabs come up over and over again. When I wasn't even making it about Kenobi .

You say you shouldn't mention it and each time you say you regret mentioning it (because the assumption that we bend everything into Kenobi causes heated debates), and you say you won't do it again, yet here we are. Again. Assumptions made about posters.

Okay, guys, can we stop making things personal whenever someone dares to mention the Kenobi-Reylated theory? Some people will think it will happen, some other people think it will not. It gets personal every single time for months. Let it go already.

I'm sorry, I'm just really, really tired of this.

Well fine but my back would not be up had I not seen a snide comment about how I supposedly think the trick is drawn from kenobi.

Never said that in here, not once!

Constantly said that it needs to come from her in all of my responses about it in here.

Done with having words shoved into my mouth.

I have a very strong conviction that at some time Finn and Rey will have some kind of argument over Kylo- that for a while they'll have a falling out over Rey not killing him or even sympathising with him. Not a permanent rift, but I can see it.

Gemini wrote:Well fine but my back would not be up had I not seen a snide comment about how I supposedly think the trick is drawn from kenobi.

Never said that in here, not once!

Constantly said that it needs to come from her in all of my responses about it in here.

Done with having words shoved into my mouth.

@Gemini

But you never did answer where you think Rey got the mind trick from? I'm genuinely curious to know. If she didn't learn it from Kylo, where did she learn it?

Irina de France wrote:Okay, guys, can we stop making things personal whenever someone dares to mention the Kenobi-Reylated theory? Some people will think it will happen, some other people think it will not. It gets personal every single time for months. Let it go already.

I'm sorry, I'm just really, really tired of this.

@Irina de France