Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

by **Darth Dementor** Tue 28 Mar 2017, 3:09 pm

snufkin wrote:
Irina de France wrote:For those of you who want a SW musical: a high school made one for ANH back in the 90s.

But to be honest, I'd LOVE for a musical to be made based on the ST. And I will only be content if Hux gets to sing a parody of this before blowing up the Hosnian system.

@Irina de France

It's a Disney property and we already know that they love to turn their properties into both touring musicals and ice skating extravaganzas. Rey's introduction is custom made for some heart tugging number about being a lonely scavenger hungry for food and belonging/love with Unkar Plutt scowling at her. Put it in the key of Food Glorious Food. And you know Kylo would have a solo (har har) along the lines of My Favorite Things. #1 being pretty scavenger girls from backwater planets of no consequence.

@snufkin

I'm not going to lie...if Rey and Ben hit this diddy I will scream like a fan girl. And considering I'm a boy that would be something to see. Laughing

by snufkin Tue 28 Mar 2017, 3:32 pm

Darth Dementor wrote:
snufkin wrote:
Irina de France wrote:For those of you who want a SW musical: a high school made one for ANH back in the 90s.

But to be honest, I'd LOVE for a musical to be made based on the ST. And I will only be content if Hux gets to sing a parody of this before blowing up the Hosnian system.

@Irina de France

It's a Disney property and we already know that they love to turn their properties into both touring musicals and ice skating extravaganzas. Rey's introduction is custom made for some heart tugging number about being a lonely scavenger hungry for food and belonging/love with Unkar Plutt scowling at her. Put it in the key of Food Glorious Food. And you know Kylo would have a solo (har har) along the lines of My Favorite Things. #1 being pretty scavenger girls from backwater planets of no consequence.
@snufkin

I'm not going to lie...if Rey and Ben hit this diddy I will scream like a fan girl. And considering I'm a boy that would be something to see.

@Darth Dementor

Too bad we won't be in the same theater! My first thought with the whole "You need a teacher" line was this (and hopefully unlike Rolf, Kylo will see the error of his ways and help stop the bad guys)

by Helix Tue 28 Mar 2017, 4:11 pm

Queen of the Knights wrote:IMO this whole debate is harmful to her character even now without official revelations since a great portion of the fandom refers to her as "Luke's daughter" or "someone's possible granddaughter" instead of "Rey, the character I find interesting because...". When it comes to Rey that's what people ever talk about and that's not good. Kylo is a legacy, that's true, but I dare say what makes him interesting goes a bit further than this fact and has to do with the way the character is presented to us, his conflicted nature and complexity, the actor's performance, etc. He could have been Han and Leia's son and still be boring or unappealing. Him being the last surviving link to the Skywalker family raises the stakes and makes the audience invested in his redemption or at least in seeing what will happen to him. However, precisely because of this, Kylo being legacy is something more than just fulfilling a blood relation requirement, i.e. he is legacy because it is relevant to the story they want to tell. They could easily have turned things around, made Rey the legacy and Kylo an opposing outsider. Perhaps then a Finn/Rey story would have worked as well. But the story we actually have in this instance is completely different. If Kylo is related to the OT characters, it is because it matters to his development. I have yet to see a convincing argument as to what will Rey's arc gain from such relation except more rehash criticisms. Much like Finn undergoing any Force-related training and recycling Rey's story, it doesn't make much sense to me that they would repeat the same reveal we got in TFA with Rey and recycle Kylo's story. Leia was eventually revealed to be Luke's sister, but they never really focused on the emotional significance of that reveal for her and she ultimately chose a different path. Every character has a unique arc and perhaps in Rey's case they are trying to show how a scavenger who is seemingly a nobody can not only become a somebody, but change the course of galactic affairs and be the source of light and hope that will help save the remaining Skywalkers. I reckon that's a pretty powerful and original take if done right. I said "seemingly nobody" because there has to be reason why Rey has such a talent for using the Force, her backstory is important for sure, I just don't think it necessarily implies a blood relation to a legacy character and no piece of evidence so far has convinced me of that. Things can change, of course, but based on the setup and the limited information we have, what seems most logical is that her past has something to do with either Snoke/ FO and/or the mystery surrounding the Jedi temples/whatever Luke & Kylo were up to during their travels. For all we know, she could be a reincarnation of some Force goddess, the predecessor of all Jedi, who knows. There are so many options that are way more interesting than simply saying "she is the daughter/granddaughter of someone". Besides, anything other than Luke's daughter will be underwhelming for many, but you can't please everyone and that's not the point of a good story anyway.

@Queen of the Knights

I agree. It's just not worth going back and forth about. The difference between Kylo and Rey lies in the fact she's the first female lead and her story of being a nobody strong enough to make waves in a big family is an interesting story, imo. I find it regressive for her as a female lead to have her being powerful just be a product of a popular male's bloodline. If people don't agree, that's their opinion. I'd be disappointed with some of the choices, but there's nothing one can really do about it. Any SW character can be interesting if done right as a legacy, or without being legacy.

by Gemini Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:04 pm

There's nothing wrong or worth feeling guilty about if people want to discuss her lineage. No subject should be off limits about a character unless its very offensive and distatseful imo.

It does not weaken her character. The reason people are guessing is because Tfa sets her up as a big mystery. The audience are perfectly entitled to discuss a theme which has been heavily raised in the film itself, without feeling like they are being bad and damaging her character. That's what the writer/director wanted in tfa for rey. For her possible lineage to be discussed. There is nothing much else to rey at the moment except that's she's a mystery. It's no surprise that people want to talk about it. In future films we may actually see some development worth talking about but right now it's pretty scarce, unfortunately.

I mean it carries on even into the last Jedi "who are you?" - Luke to rey. They want you to wonder who she is. Nothing wrong in the slightest to discuss it.

by Helix Thu 30 Mar 2017, 6:41 pm

People also have a right to be tired of it, just as people have a right to want to. It's been going on for months and it's a rather tiresome topic for many, creators wishes or not. No one is saying it can't be talked about.

That's just one opinion on it and you're entitled to yours as others are to theirs.

by Gemini Fri 31 Mar 2017, 4:24 am

Helix wrote:People also have a right to be tired of it, just as people have a right to want to. It's been going on for months and it's a rather tiresome topic for many, creators wishes or not. No one is saying it can't be talked about.

That's just one opinion on it and you're entitled to yours as others are to theirs.

@Helix

It just feels like a guilt trip sometimes.

I understand that it's frustrating'for some. The reywalker crap tires me to no end. And I'm tired of not knowing. To make a
Mystery last for 2 years was a bad choice.

That said, this is a lineage discussion thread so the lineage discussion will continue even if it's tiresome, I guess.

by Saracene Fri 31 Mar 2017, 4:57 am

Queen of the Knights wrote:IMO this whole debate is harmful to her character even now without official revelations since a great portion of the fandom refers to her as "Luke's daughter" or "someone's possible granddaughter" instead of "Rey, the character I find interesting because...". When it comes to Rey that's what people ever talk about and that's not good.

@Queen of the Knights

I think it's hardly the fault of the fandom though, when the filmmakers put no effort into making Rey a genuinely interesting and/or complex character, rather than a super-likeable and capable one. Which are all fine qualities but they don't exactly generate discussions.

by spacebaby45678 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 5:54 am

@saracene

ITA! But I am very interested to find out what happened to Rey & why, and her lineage is wrapped up in those answers.

@Gemini

Totally, if someone does not like the argument they should probably stay away from a thread that is about that discussion.

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 6:08 am

Freedom of expression is important and the right to express one's views includes the right to dissent as well.

1. Those who are tired of the lineage discussion are free to express their views on this thread as long as they don't try to stop those interested in the topic from discussing Rey's possible lineage.

2. Those who like discussing Rey's lineages should discuss their views in peace but not stop others from expressing their weariness of the topic.

by Piper Maru Fri 31 Mar 2017, 6:18 am

Saracene wrote:
Queen of the Knights wrote:IMO this whole debate is harmful to her character even now without official revelations since a great portion of the fandom refers to her as "Luke's daughter" or "someone's possible granddaughter" instead of "Rey, the character I find interesting because...". When it comes to Rey that's what people ever talk about and that's not good.
@Queen of the Knights

I think it's hardly the fault of the fandom though, when the filmmakers put no effort into making Rey a genuinely interesting and/or complex character, rather than a super-likeable and capable one. Which are all fine qualities but they don't exactly generate discussions.

@Saracene

You hit the nail on the head there.

Rey is a super-likeable, charismatic and capable character. I adore her and I think Daisy Ridley is the perfect actress to pull that off. Unfortunately, that's all Rey is (until now). She has no complexity or interesting traits other than her mystery box family.

by Gemini Fri 31 Mar 2017, 6:49 am

Saracene wrote:
Queen of the Knights wrote:IMO this whole debate is harmful to her character even now without official revelations since a great portion of the fandom refers to her as "Luke's daughter" or "someone's possible granddaughter" instead of "Rey, the character I find interesting because...". When it comes to Rey that's what people ever talk about and that's not good.
@Queen of the Knights

I think it's hardly the fault of the fandom though, when the filmmakers put no effort into making Rey a genuinely interesting and/or complex character, rather than a super-likeable and capable one. Which are all fine qualities but they don't exactly generate discussions.

@Saracene

True that.

The only thing they made interesting about her was creating a mystery, it's not the fault of the fandom and they should not be made to feel bad about discussing it. The filmmakers should feel bad for not giving her enough dimensions.

panki wrote:Freedom of expression is important and the right to express one's views includes the right to dissent as well.

1. Those who are tired of the lineage discussion are free to express their views on this thread as long as they don't try to stop those interested in the topic from discussing Rey's possible lineage.

2. Those who like discussing Rey's lineages should discuss their views in peace but not stop others from expressing their weariness of the topic.

@panki

Agreed. But I don't think anyone was trying to stop people discussing their distaste/like of it?

by fuhry Fri 31 Mar 2017, 8:40 am

Piper Maru wrote:Oh, I definitely see potential for Rey becoming a ruler of sorts. It'd be waaaay more interesting than "Luke's daughter" or "Jedi monk". Her ascension from scavenger to queen would be BEAUTIFUL to watch.

@Piper Maru

If she is descended from the child of Obi-wan Kenobi and Satine Kryze, she may very well be the heir to the Mandalorian throne.

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 8:52 am

fuhry wrote:
Piper Maru wrote:Oh, I definitely see potential for Rey becoming a ruler of sorts. It'd be waaaay more interesting than "Luke's daughter" or "Jedi monk". Her ascension from scavenger to queen would be BEAUTIFUL to watch.
@Piper Maru

If she is descended from the child of Obi-wan Kenobi and Satine Kryze, she may very well be the heir to the Mandalorian throne.

@fuhry

The Mandalorian throne isn't hereditary...its earned by combat.

To inherit a throne, she would have to belong to some Elder house family, or some monarchy like Boz Pity, Serenno, Shu- Torun, Onderon....or whatever system King Prana rules.

by spacebaby45678 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 8:57 am

Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:03 am

spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry

@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

That is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.

by spacebaby45678 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:08 am

panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.

@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from? How did Satine come to the throne without the dark saber or combat? And we will have to agree to disagree I don't think it is clear at all.

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:10 am

spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?

@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

by spacebaby45678 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:11 am

panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat? Satine is a hereditary Duchess aka royalty who happened to have the throne of Mandalore. It has not been "clarified" how the politics and leadership over all is working on Mandalore, we need to wait for clarification.

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:14 am

spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?

@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore.

This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. Her faction is even known as the "New Mandalorians".

And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine (the group included her own sister).

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.

by Irina de France Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:16 am

Just to come back to the whole topic of Rey's ending for this trilogy... I don't see how ending up with Kylo/Ben and eventually starting a family of their own is "restrictive" for Rey. It doesn't equal becoming a stay-at-home mom who just takes care of the house. Like, I could see Rey and Ben going off exploring the galaxy on the MF at the end of Episode IX (it could be because Ben is not allowed to come anywhere the Core for a certain amount of time), discovering planets in the Unknown Regions and discovering more about the Force. That something that could definitely work for both and allow them a lot of freedom. Kids could come in the time between the two trilogies. Not straight away, because early babies are ALWAYS a problem in SW, but over time.

I mean, it could work, and there would be plenty of room for novels and comics too. You've got a cash cow for that right there.

by spacebaby45678 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:16 am

panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.

@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai

Duke Adonai Kryze[1] was a Human[4] male Mandalorian, who served as the chieftain of Clan Kryze in the years leading up to the Great Clan Wars. As the fighting broke out across Mandalore, Kryze chose to send his daughter, Satine, to the Galactic Republic capital world of Coruscant, in order to keep her safe and allow her to undergo diplomatic training.[5] Though he was renowned as a powerful warlord, Kryze eventually perished in the course of the Great Clan Wars. In a move that some saw as a betrayal of his memory, his daughter Satine later joined the pacifistic New Mandalorian sect upon her return to Mandalore, becoming the faction's leader.[6]

by fuhry Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:26 am

spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai

@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler. It seems like the rulers come from the big families. Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:27 am

spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai

Duke Adonai Kryze[1] was a Human[4] male Mandalorian, who served as the chieftain of Clan Kryze in the years leading up to the Great Clan Wars. As the fighting broke out across Mandalore, Kryze chose to send his daughter, Satine, to the Galactic Republic capital world of Coruscant, in order to keep her safe and allow her to undergo diplomatic training.[5] Though he was renowned as a powerful warlord, Kryze eventually perished in the course of the Great Clan Wars. In a move that some saw as a betrayal of his memory, his daughter Satine later joined the pacifistic New Mandalorian sect upon her return to Mandalore, becoming the faction's leader.[6]

@spacebaby45678

Satine's father might have been a Duke but that doesn't automatically make him the heir to the throne of Mandalore or the Kryzes the hereditary rulers of all Mandalore....even when she rules the New Mandalorians, Satine remains a Duchess....she never takes the title of Mandalor (the title used by the ruler of all of Mandalore)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mand%27alor

by panki Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:29 am

fuhry wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler. It seems like the rulers come from the big families. Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.

@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.

by spacebaby45678 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 9:36 am

panki wrote:
fuhry wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:
panki wrote:
spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler. It seems like the rulers come from the big families. Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.
@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.

@panki

Interesting qoute from Duke Adonai's wiki

"...Satine Kryze had been sent offworld as a child by her father, a mighty clan warlord, and she fell prey to the lies of the Jedi. After her father perished in the Great Clan Wars, she betrayed his memory by becoming the leader of the New Mandalorians."
―Tor Vizsla[src]

This might be a parallel to Rey being left on Jakku, also, the child actor of Rey said whe had war clothes on.

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