The Last Jedi Trailer(s)

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think it's rubbish at all, as I'd had the same thought of parallels between the two incidents. I know that we joke around a fair amount about the exploding hut, and while it could easily be played for comedy, my gut is telling me that that won't be the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the exploding hut is the very incident that drive Rey and Kylo into a reluctant alliance.

And it does look like Ahch-To when lightened up... So what if instead of being a flashback, it's a scene from the presence? This is pure crack speculation from me, but what if Rey and Kylo took off to the temple on Ahch-To together, and some point after that, the First Order shows up, attacks, and blows up the temple? Luke shows up after the fact and thinks that Rey and/or Kylo are dead, but in reality, they escaped together during the attack...

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I always thought the KoR in the rain in Rey's Forceback takes place on Ach-To, especially if you go with the "left to right theory". Since the two are often confused, I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't done on purpose by the writers.

On another note, don't forget about Kylo's singed cowl. That tells me that this wasn't solely all his doing, even though he may have had some part in it.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

Another option is that there's no blown hut. The blown thing is a small model for the further CGI with this temple/ whatever. But I like your analysis Mrs Ben Solo, the blowing hut could lead to a flashback.

And it's going to be really cool (hopefully) to learn what happened. Cause this scene leads to the scene in the force vision, with Luke by R2-D2...
Anyways, the question is how he got split from Artoo, unless they'll use the fact that R2 D2 can fly on his own., and maybe he made to the resistance on its own. Still, while r2 flying a ship in TCW is cool, I think that it's odd in the movies.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think it's rubbish at all, as I'd had the same thought of parallels between the two incidents. I know that we joke around a fair amount about the exploding hut, and while it could easily be played for comedy, my gut is telling me that that won't be the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the exploding hut is the very incident that drive Rey and Kylo into a reluctant alliance.

And it does look like Ahch-To when lightened up... So what if instead of being a flashback, it's a scene from the presence? This is pure crack speculation from me, but what if Rey and Kylo took off to the temple on Ahch-To together, and some point after that, the First Order shows up, attacks, and blows up the temple? Luke shows up after the fact and thinks that Rey and/or Kylo are dead, but in reality, they escaped together during the attack...

@ISeeAnIsland

That's an interesting idea too. I never thought about there being a temple like that on Ahch-To because it looks a bit... primitive. We've been thinking about it in terms of big old trees and those beehive huts but who's to say there isn't more to it. I often wonder about that supposed secret location (the private estate) that was speculated about and where that might fit in to the Ahch-To plot.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think it's rubbish at all, as I'd had the same thought of parallels between the two incidents. I know that we joke around a fair amount about the exploding hut, and while it could easily be played for comedy, my gut is telling me that that won't be the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the exploding hut is the very incident that drive Rey and Kylo into a reluctant alliance.

And it does look like Ahch-To when lightened up... So what if instead of being a flashback, it's a scene from the presence? This is pure crack speculation from me, but what if Rey and Kylo took off to the temple on Ahch-To together, and some point after that, the First Order shows up, attacks, and blows up the temple? Luke shows up after the fact and thinks that Rey and/or Kylo are dead, but in reality, they escaped together during the attack...

@ISeeAnIsland

That's an interesting idea too. I never thought about there being a temple like that on Ahch-To because it looks a bit... primitive. We've been thinking about it in terms of big old trees and those beehive huts but who's to say there isn't more to it. I often wonder about that supposed secret location (the private estate) that was speculated about and where that might fit in to the Ahch-To plot.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I've wondered about that, too. I don't know how likely it is--I'm just rambling here. I mean, we did hear from Jason about that frog-like character who wears a nun's habit that's supposed to be on Ahch-To. Maybe there is (or was?) more civilization on one of the larger islands?

I do think it's interesting seeing the lightened photo. I know that there had been some speculation that Luke's temple had been on Tatooine (from that Trials of Tatooine VR game, and that it would be a place close to Luke's heart, etc)...but from the lightened shot, that doesn't look like Tatooine.

I've wondered about how R2-D2 got back to the Resistance as well @AceofWands There is also the matter of how Han and Leia know what became of Ben, in that he's now Kylo Ren. I guess they could have gone looking for Luke and found R2 and a recorded message from Luke or something like the security holos that Obi-Wan watched Anakin kill the younglings on. From what Han and Leia said in TFA, it sounds like Luke fled before they had a chance to catch up to him but I'm guessing they at least knew where to go to find him and Ben. In Bloodline, it sounded like Leia had some idea of where her brother and son were even if she wasn't in regular contact with them.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I've wondered about how R2-D2 got back to the Resistance as well @AceofWands There is also the matter of how Han and Leia know what became of Ben, in that he's now Kylo Ren. I guess they could have gone looking for Luke and found R2 and a recorded message from Luke or something like the security holos that Obi-Wan watched Anakin kill the younglings on. From what Han and Leia said in TFA, it sounds like Luke fled before they had a chance to catch up to him but I'm guessing they at least knew where to go to find him and Ben. In Bloodline, it sounded like Leia had some idea of where her brother and son were even if she wasn't in regular contact with them.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I thought about this as well, but Threepio says in TFA that Artoo is "shut down" ever since Luke went missing. No way to see any messages there. I believe Han and Leia knew about Ben falling to the Dark Side through other people -- maybe Snoke himself, since he knew Leia personally? (or at least this is heavily implied).

Piper Maru wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I've wondered about how R2-D2 got back to the Resistance as well @AceofWands There is also the matter of how Han and Leia know what became of Ben, in that he's now Kylo Ren. I guess they could have gone looking for Luke and found R2 and a recorded message from Luke or something like the security holos that Obi-Wan watched Anakin kill the younglings on. From what Han and Leia said in TFA, it sounds like Luke fled before they had a chance to catch up to him but I'm guessing they at least knew where to go to find him and Ben. In Bloodline, it sounded like Leia had some idea of where her brother and son were even if she wasn't in regular contact with them.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I thought about this as well, but Threepio says in TFA that Artoo is "shut down" ever since Luke went missing. No way to see any messages there. I believe Han and Leia knew about Ben falling to the Dark Side through other people -- maybe Snoke himself, since he knew Leia personally? (or at least this is heavily implied).

@Piper Maru

I guess Leia could have had a communication from Snoke. Pablo Hidalgo has said that it isn't widely known that Ben Solo is Kylo Ren and as he went missing at the same time as Luke, or "off the grid" as PH said, most people would assume they were together. I guess Ben/Kylo could have contacted Leia or Han himself or sent some communication to them. Lor San Tekka also knew Kylo Ren's true identity so there's obviously something more to all this. Snoke doesn't allow Kylo's true name to be spoken and it's not clear who in the First Order knows he's Ben Solo, either.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think it's rubbish at all, as I'd had the same thought of parallels between the two incidents. I know that we joke around a fair amount about the exploding hut, and while it could easily be played for comedy, my gut is telling me that that won't be the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the exploding hut is the very incident that drive Rey and Kylo into a reluctant alliance.

And it does look like Ahch-To when lightened up... So what if instead of being a flashback, it's a scene from the presence? This is pure crack speculation from me, but what if Rey and Kylo took off to the temple on Ahch-To together, and some point after that, the First Order shows up, attacks, and blows up the temple? Luke shows up after the fact and thinks that Rey and/or Kylo are dead, but in reality, they escaped together during the attack...

@ISeeAnIsland

You make an excellent point here. We assume this is a flashback, but again why does Luke's temple look like some burning combination of St. Peter's Basilica and a Hindu temole? It does seem really palatial looking based on the Bloodline description of Luke and his wandering "acolytes". I mean the church of the force didn't live too well. I mean I guess it be an ancient temple that Ben and Luke were squatting in at the time "the big fall" went down ... but how many grandiose temple sets are they going to have? I suppose they could have several ... or ... that is the famed "first Jedi temple" and like you said, the FO bombed it. There was definitely concept art of Kira and Jedi Killer in a temple. Also, if Snoke found Ahch-To, I think he'd bomb it like crazy. It would be really powerful if Rey and Kylo were in there ... especially if Luke's fury caused a lack of control and the FO weren't even there yet. Either way Rey and Kylo could be caught in fiery LNS circumstances on their own.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I've wondered about how R2-D2 got back to the Resistance as well @AceofWands There is also the matter of how Han and Leia know what became of Ben, in that he's now Kylo Ren. I guess they could have gone looking for Luke and found R2 and a recorded message from Luke or something like the security holos that Obi-Wan watched Anakin kill the younglings on. From what Han and Leia said in TFA, it sounds like Luke fled before they had a chance to catch up to him but I'm guessing they at least knew where to go to find him and Ben. In Bloodline, it sounded like Leia had some idea of where her brother and son were even if she wasn't in regular contact with them.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I've wondered about it as well.
To add another thing into overall confusion: at that point FO is still in the shadows so to speak. There's no yet open war in the galaxy.

Han didn't see Luke after the tragedy at all: at least I have that impression given the Han's speech to Rey and Finn in TFA.
My money is on R2 being a messenger once again by delivering the recorded message to Leia, who was informed (obviously) about the tragedy - but it seems to me not about everything that had led to it.
She believes if she is able to find Luke he'll help her cause - however Luke doesn't strike me as being in the mood for such action - which completely points to the reasons why Luke left in the first place (very important thing according Rian Johnson in the EW interview).

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

MindAndMagic wrote:I wasn't sure where to post this, but it's truly hilarious: DR's reaction when being asked a question about the other two faces on the poster. Tricky question indeed! I think it's one of the few ocassions where someone has asked a question like that and you can see she's kind of caught off guard at first.

I: So we saw the poster. What do we learn from that?
DR: From the poster!?
I: The poster, there's three faces on there, you're one of them. Can you tell us about the other two?
DR: Oh yeah. Well... well, the other two only have half their face and I have a full face in it so I'm totes doing my own thing.

P.S. I couldn't find a link to the full interview segment so I'm posting a link to the blog where it was originally mentioned instead.

http://manyymedia.tumblr.com/post/160298243876/im-totes-doing-my-own-thing

@MindAndMagic

She wasn't briefed for this kind of question

@Maria Antonietta

Clearly not!  

I do remember seeing a clip of her being interviewed by someone at Celebration (at least, I think it was from Celebration), and the interviewer clearly caught her off guard, and she flat out answered, "I haven't been coached on how to answer that."

Poor Daisy. You can tell that she's so done with the parentage questions; however, she clearly has to dance around her answers in any interesting questions that she does get.

@ISeeAnIsland

Do you remember what question they asked her when she said that?  I'm just curious.  It must be hard to constantly be bombarded with questions when you have to be really careful with your answers.

@Kyla Ren

I found the interview that I was thinking of. It was the short Steele Wars interview that she did. He asked her what sort of challenges Rey would face, and her answer started off with "I have not been briefed on that one..." before she started giving her answer.  Here's the clip:

http://makingstarwars.net/2017/04/watch-daisy-ridley/

@ISeeAnIsland

Thanks for the link.  It's interesting that she answered that way.  Maybe one of the challenges she's going to have to face is working with Kylo when at first there's still some animosity between them.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Found a lightened pic of the "burning temple" shot from the teaser trailer.

@Darth Dingbat, not that I ever doubted you, but yeah, this definitely looks like an explosion:



That definitely lends support that whatever happened there...it wasn't simply Ben going all Anakin 2.0 with his lightsaber.

@ISeeAnIsland

I had a thought when I looked at that picture which is probably way off the mark but... with the Luke-exploding-hut rumour/spoiler, and that burning temple/academy/whatever looking a bit out of place (although it could just be the CGI) I'm wondering if Luke blows up the hut in anger and then has a flashback to when a similar thing happened. That landscape looks a bit like Ahch-To and it could be a blend of where Luke actually is with the remnants of the blown up hut close to him and his vision of the burning temple in the background. I'm probably talking rubbish but as we're just speculating at the moment, no harm in putting it out there.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think it's rubbish at all, as I'd had the same thought of parallels between the two incidents. I know that we joke around a fair amount about the exploding hut, and while it could easily be played for comedy, my gut is telling me that that won't be the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the exploding hut is the very incident that drive Rey and Kylo into a reluctant alliance.

And it does look like Ahch-To when lightened up... So what if instead of being a flashback, it's a scene from the presence? This is pure crack speculation from me, but what if Rey and Kylo took off to the temple on Ahch-To together, and some point after that, the First Order shows up, attacks, and blows up the temple? Luke shows up after the fact and thinks that Rey and/or Kylo are dead, but in reality, they escaped together during the attack...

@ISeeAnIsland

You make an excellent point here. We assume this is a flashback, but again why does Luke's temple look like some burning combination of St. Peter's Basilica and a Hindu temole? It does seem really palatial looking based on the Bloodline description of Luke and his wandering "acolytes". I mean the church of the force didn't live too well. I mean I guess it be an ancient temple that Ben and Luke were squatting in at the time "the big fall" went down ... but how many grandiose temple sets are they going to have? I suppose they could have several ... or ... that is the famed "first Jedi temple" and like you said, the FO bombed it. There was definitely concept art of Kira and Jedi Killer in a temple. Also, if Snoke found Ahch-To, I think he'd bomb it like crazy. It would be really powerful if Rey and Kylo were in there ... especially if Luke's fury caused a lack of control and the FO weren't even there yet. Either way Rey and Kylo could be caught in fiery LNS circumstances on their own.

@SoloSideCousin

Right. And there was that aerial drone photo of one of the sets where it looked like they might be building something that was Angor Wat inspired. I'm wondering now if that's the burning temple that we see in the teaser (whether it's from a flashback or something on Ahch-To):



One thing that wouldn't fit with it happening in the present, though, is it looks like the Falcon escape takes place in the daytime (assuming that a Falcon escape would follow a FO attack), and Luke clearly doesn't come across the burning temple until night time.

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

MindAndMagic wrote:I wasn't sure where to post this, but it's truly hilarious: DR's reaction when being asked a question about the other two faces on the poster. Tricky question indeed! I think it's one of the few ocassions where someone has asked a question like that and you can see she's kind of caught off guard at first.

I: So we saw the poster. What do we learn from that?
DR: From the poster!?
I: The poster, there's three faces on there, you're one of them. Can you tell us about the other two?
DR: Oh yeah. Well... well, the other two only have half their face and I have a full face in it so I'm totes doing my own thing.

P.S. I couldn't find a link to the full interview segment so I'm posting a link to the blog where it was originally mentioned instead.

http://manyymedia.tumblr.com/post/160298243876/im-totes-doing-my-own-thing

@MindAndMagic

She wasn't briefed for this kind of question

@Maria Antonietta

Clearly not!  

I do remember seeing a clip of her being interviewed by someone at Celebration (at least, I think it was from Celebration), and the interviewer clearly caught her off guard, and she flat out answered, "I haven't been coached on how to answer that."

Poor Daisy. You can tell that she's so done with the parentage questions; however, she clearly has to dance around her answers in any interesting questions that she does get.

@ISeeAnIsland

Do you remember what question they asked her when she said that?  I'm just curious.  It must be hard to constantly be bombarded with questions when you have to be really careful with your answers.

@Kyla Ren

I found the interview that I was thinking of. It was the short Steele Wars interview that she did. He asked her what sort of challenges Rey would face, and her answer started off with "I have not been briefed on that one..." before she started giving her answer.  Here's the clip:

http://makingstarwars.net/2017/04/watch-daisy-ridley/

@ISeeAnIsland

Thanks for the link.  It's interesting that she answered that way.  Maybe one of the challenges she's going to have to face is working with Kylo when at first there's still some animosity between them.

@Kyla Ren

You're welcome! I did think that for it being a somewhat expected (I'd think) question for a main protagonist, it was interesting that she went straight to the comment about not being briefed...which could hint that some of the challenges she faces are a bit spoiler-ish. Granted, she recovered quickly and gave a pretty reasonable answer, but I'll guess that that wasn't the first thing that popped into her head.

Or maybe she just gets asked so much about Rey's parentage that that's the main question/answer that she's rehearsed.

Piper Maru wrote:I thought about this as well, but Threepio says in TFA that Artoo is "shut down" ever since Luke went missing. No way to see any messages there. I believe Han and Leia knew about Ben falling to the Dark Side through other people -- maybe Snoke himself, since he knew Leia personally? (or at least this is heavily implied).

@Piper Maru

I'm wondering how Han recognized Kylo on Takodana with his helmet on? He didn't seem to just suspect it was Kylo, he seemed very certain it was Kylo. He told Leia, "I saw him. I saw our son. He was here."

Thanks for the image @ISeeAnIsland! Very interesting. It does look even more like an explosion than I thought - or, considering the scattered nature of the damage, perhaps a series of explosions or an air raid?

I do feel like that scene is in the past, because I think whatever happened six years previously is going to be very important and will be elucidated somehow. Whether that's actually Luke's temple or, say, some place the Jedi were visiting on their travels is another matter.

One of my potential theories is that this fire scene is indeed in the past, BUT they return to the ruins of that place later, and the landscape's resemblance to Ahch-To is deliberate, in order to throw people off. Same with the shape of the tree vs. the shape of this temple. Both in rocky landscapes. Impossible to say which one the rain scene actually is.

Considering that JJ apparently hadn't even figured out why Luke ended up on Ahch-To, it's possible that not every detail from TFA is going to line up with what we're getting in TLJ. For example, Han and Leia not knowing exactly what happened, and Han still recognising his son with the costume on - that might actually never be explained beyond Han "sensing" it was Ben.

Sacrebleu wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:I thought about this as well, but Threepio says in TFA that Artoo is "shut down" ever since Luke went missing. No way to see any messages there. I believe Han and Leia knew about Ben falling to the Dark Side through other people -- maybe Snoke himself, since he knew Leia personally? (or at least this is heavily implied).

@Piper Maru

I'm wondering how Han recognized Kylo on Takodana with his helmet on? He didn't seem to just suspect it was Kylo, he seemed very certain it was Kylo. He told Leia, "I saw him. I saw our son. He was here."

@Sacrebleu

Yeap, it's very strange. According to the Visual Dictionary, the galaxy thinks Ben is "missing" just like Luke is. However, Han and Lor San Tekka know who he is with the helmet on. How? I assume Luke never had the chance to tell Leia and Han what happened, since he went away right after the "academy" fiasco. Who told Han, Leia and San Tekka? Did Kylo himself tell them?

I wonder if it's a genuine mystery or just a plot hole

Piper Maru wrote:

Sacrebleu wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:I thought about this as well, but Threepio says in TFA that Artoo is "shut down" ever since Luke went missing. No way to see any messages there. I believe Han and Leia knew about Ben falling to the Dark Side through other people -- maybe Snoke himself, since he knew Leia personally? (or at least this is heavily implied).

@Piper Maru

I'm wondering how Han recognized Kylo on Takodana with his helmet on?  He didn't seem to just suspect it was Kylo, he seemed very certain it was Kylo.  He told Leia, "I saw him.  I saw our son.  He was here."

@Sacrebleu

Yeap, it's very strange. According to the Visual Dictionary, the galaxy thinks Ben is "missing" just like Luke is. However, Han and Lor San Tekka know who he is with the helmet on. How? I assume Luke never had the chance to tell Leia and Han what happened, since he went away right after the "academy" fiasco. Who told Han, Leia and San Tekka? Did Kylo himself tell them?

I wonder if it's a genuine mystery or just a plot hole

@Piper Maru

Maybe it's Ben fell to the dark side, this guy is dressed like Darth Vader, ergo it must be Ben?  But that's weak.  The second Han spotted Kylo on Takodana you could see on his face that he recognized him.  There was no hesitation or double take or expression of "Could it be....?"

I don't know if anyone has seen this, but this is the best thing I've seen all week.

Darth Dingbat wrote:Thanks for the image @ISeeAnIsland! Very interesting. It does look even more like an explosion than I thought - or, considering the scattered nature of the damage, perhaps a series of explosions or an air raid?

I do feel like that scene is in the past, because I think whatever happened six years previously is going to be very important and will be elucidated somehow. Whether that's actually Luke's temple or, say, some place the Jedi were visiting on their travels is another matter.

One of my potential theories is that this fire scene is indeed in the past, BUT they return to the ruins of that place later, and the landscape's resemblance to Ahch-To is deliberate, in order to throw people off. Same with the shape of the tree vs. the shape of this temple. Both in rocky landscapes. Impossible to say which one the rain scene actually is.

Considering that JJ apparently hadn't even figured out why Luke ended up on Ahch-To, it's possible that not every detail from TFA is going to line up with what we're getting in TLJ. For example, Han and Leia not knowing exactly what happened, and Han still recognising his son with the costume on - that might actually never be explained beyond Han "sensing" it was Ben.

@Darth Dingbat

If it was an airstrike, which looks like a very good possibility, given the amount of destruction, I think that increases the likelihood that Ben's role was to give away the temple's location to the First Order.

And you make very good points about the ambiguity of the tree/temple shapes, etc.

Yes, Han had no doubt he was seeing his son, especially later when they meet on the bridge and he yells "BEN!" So I wonder who told them or if Ben told them himself and "denounced" them all. Also I am sure Leia felt it in the Force when he turned.

That destruction does look like an airstrike and maybe FO troops finished it off on the ground.

ReyofLightSide wrote:Yes, Han had no doubt he was seeing his son, especially later when they meet on the bridge and he yells "BEN!" So I wonder who told them or if Ben told them himself and "denounced" them all. Also I am sure Leia felt it in the Force when he turned.

That destruction does look like an airstrike and maybe FO troops finished it off on the ground.

@ReyofLightSide

If it was an airstrike on Luke's temple, and Luke wasn't there, I wonder if the actual intent by the FO was to kill Luke. Or perhaps it was an airstrike by some faction looking to kill Vader's son after the Vader reveal? I'm not sure how that would fit with the "Ben fell when he killed the padawans" part of the story, though.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:Yes, Han had no doubt he was seeing his son, especially later when they meet on the bridge and he yells "BEN!"  So I wonder who told them or if Ben told them himself and "denounced" them all. Also I am sure Leia felt it in the Force when he turned.

That destruction does look like an airstrike and maybe FO troops finished it off on the ground.

@ReyofLightSide

If it was an airstrike on Luke's temple, and Luke wasn't there, I wonder if the actual intent by the FO was to kill Luke. Or perhaps it was an airstrike by some faction looking to kill Vader's son after the Vader reveal? I'm not sure how that would fit with the "Ben fell when he killed the padawans" part of the story, though.

@ISeeAnIsland

Could Ben's giving away the location of the padawans equal "killing the padawans"?  In a way it could ... it would also set up a situation where duress might have been involved.

Going back to the left-right past-future theory and the battle in the rain ... the battle must be in the past, doesn't it? Assumed that it's part of the shared vision. And assume Kylo has seen Rey but never actually met her before TFA. Presumably, if this is the shared vision, it's the moment when he first sees her. So it must be in the past, before TFA.

Has anyone seen this? I was watching the news when South Korea's flag was shown. My reylo eyes got me seeing things: 




Yin yang but in blue/red !! Altho here the red is light, blue is dark. 


"The elements of the flag symbolize the dual forces of nature. The red and blue circle in the middle of the flag is called taegeuk in Korean (t'ai chi in Chinese), which, translated literally, means "supreme ultimate." The circle is divided into two parts, each of which resembles a comma. The upper, red part represents the forces of yang (yang in Chinese as well), and the lower, blue part represents the forces of um (yin in Chinese)."