Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Rey stabbing Kylo just to prove her moral superiority... the only way I can accept it is if the movie makes it clear how wrongful it is. If Rey is shown regretting her actions and it's framed as an impulsive and dark moment on her part (because Rey can be a violent person when angry), then I can see it happening.

I don't know, on one hand I get why people are nervous after GOT, but at the same time, Jonerys and Reylo are two different ships in two different genres. GOT was cynical, SW is hopeful. GOT was for adults, SW is for children and adults alike. GOT's world is harsh, cutthroat, and unforgiving, SW's world has tragedy but with an emphasis on compassion and redemption.

Emotional context matters a whole lot: even if "Rey stabs Kylo to prove how pristine she is in comparison to him" is true, the framing of the scene can make it look completely different from how it sounds. It's past midnight and my mind is foggy, so hopefully I'm making sense.

@toolonelytosleep

Yeah, I agree, there might be a way to excuse Rey's choice, but I've just realized that my male friend (who is a SW fan too) wasn't kidding when he said maybe it's not a bad idea at all because how can antis call Kylo/ Reylo "abusive" after that plot point, Rey is clearly the one who is abusive, she scarred Kylo's face in TFA, then stabs him to death in TROS.

I can't help but notice that Rey is standing by the throne in the exact position Vader was at the end of ROTJ, and Kylo is standing where Luke was.
Frankly although I could have done with more Kylo, I liked this trailer. I liked how Finn seems to have risen from comic relief to a real leader. I think this might be the most visually stunning of all the films.
But most of all, I like how Rey is saying no one really knows her. It hints that she isn't going to be the pristine saint every one is hinting at in the supposed leaks?
I refuse to listen to the naysayers. Overall this trailer makes me feel positive. It was JJ who created Reylo, and JJ who showed us Rey isn't a saint.
Having Kylo die or Rey abandon him and swan off on her own....no, I doubt if that'll happen. The OC have gone. Ending the saga with their only heir dead or bereft is depressing as heck. And as so many have pointed out, this is NOT GoT.

motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but notice that Rey is standing by the throne in the exact position Vader was at the end of ROTJ, and Kylo is standing where Luke was.
Frankly although I could have done with more Kylo, I liked this trailer. I liked how Finn seems to have risen from comic relief to a real leader. I think this might be the most visually stunning of all the film's.
But most of all, I like how Rey is saying no one really knows her. It hints that she isn't going to be the pristine saint every one is hunting at in the supposed leaks?
I refuse to listen to the naysayers. Overall this trailer makes me feel positive. It was JJ who created Reylo, and JJ who showed us Rey isn't a saint.
Having Kylo die or Rey abandon him and swan off on her own....no, I doubt if that'll happen. The OC have gone. Ending the saga with their only heir dead or bereft is depressing as heck. And as so many have pointed out, this is NOT GoT.

@motherofpearl1

There was an earlier leak in which Palpatine used a KOR as a host— Rey and Kylo battle with and kill the KOR, and Palpatine’s spirit goes into Kylo. He gets control of himself enough to ask Rey to put an end to it all and kill him— and she does. Presumed resurrection of some sort after that, although it wasn’t in the leak. Anyway, I liked that leak a lot better. Kylo has a heroic ending (and return, I hope), not just a failure and a stereotypical bad Jedi death down a pit. This is Disney— it’s not supposed to be bleak.

I'd actually prefer it if she refused to kill him and found another way to get rid of Palps!

motherofpearl1 wrote:I'd actually prefer it if she refused to kill him and found another way to get rid of Palps!

@motherofpearl1

Like a GFFA exorcism or something. But it’s still better than these more recent leaks— Kylo needs to do something very noble and selfless to make it clear that he’s really come back, and we don’t have time for Avatar: The Last Airbender season 3 where everyone goes on a field trip/ self-exploring/ redemption quest with Zuko.

I'd love to know just exactly what that ...thing is Rey and Kylo are destroying.

@OrionStars

Calling the dynamic between two enemies 'abusive' always seemed nonsensical to me. Active antagonism is inherent to enemies; if there's no hostility and opposition, then they're not really enemies. Enemies are going to hurt each other, especially in times of war. I was never bothered by Kylo and Rey fighting or being aggressive with one another, even as they have feelings for each other. Their relationship is more complicated and vulnerable, but they're still not at the point where they're at peace with one another yet.

Maybe I've been shipping too many "unhealthy" pairings, but two adversaries fighting each other—or even trying to kill each other—as they deny or hide their attraction/affection is such a common trope in antagonistic ships.

If Rey stabs Kylo, I hope it's a moment of realization for her, that she's capable of great darkness too. Maybe, in a weird way, it will finally show the audience that Rey is no victim of Kylo's and their fantastical relationship is not meant to be akin to real life abuse. It's all about the drama.

I guess I need to see how this scene, if it's true, will play out on-screen to get the right feel of it. It could be terrible for Reylo shippers yes, if Rey feels no remorse and the film frames her as being in the right and Kylo as monstrous. But it could be very different instead.

Plus, from a cynical standpoint, there are already enough loud complaints over Rey being a Mary Sue... If she's shown as a pure beacon of light who righteously stabs the terrible Kylo Ren to death, then it will not be doing Daisy's character any favors. I want to have faith they will show Rey as more than just a figure of self-righteousness. She has more potential than that.

I just don't see how we will get romantic Reylo if she kills him to prove how morally superior she is.

I kind of dig Rey stabbing Kylo but overall in different plot. If the romance and romantic struggles are the focuses, then it could be amazing dramatic moment that brings "enemies" part of relationship to full circle. But I... didn't get a vibe that the romance will be the main focus with this "from McGuffin-to McGuffin-to Palpatine". With this super obvious call back to Pride&Prejudice in trailer, I now have a feeling that this was original blueprint for Reylo and they will stick to basically Victorian era romance: no kisses, romantic passion is not featured. Which still can be a great story, but I hate it. Just not a fairytale material for me, and definitely not a soap opera.

Although I'm sure that "Rey killing Kylo" bit will be played waaaay different from the leaks. If she does say that she will never turn to the DS, it's obvious that she means that they can't be together as nobody is willing to turn for each other. It's mirroring the "visions/turn" dialogue from the turbolift.

Toolonelytosleep - that's exactly what I think. Having Rey as some sort of pure noble heroine will actually ruin her character, and I really hope this isn't the direction they will go in.

@Lily Snape
To be fair, the ending in the leak doesn't sound bad if you're Rey fan and antis Kylo. Everything sounds glorious for Rey, she wins the final battle alone, she adopts the legacy for herself and will have a new matriarchic Skywalker family of her own. They don't really kill off all Skywalkers, they just "reboot" that family with a new Skywalker genealogy. I think the ending is stupid because i'm a Kylo/ the old Skywalker stan.

@Kylo Men
Obviously, they don't have the sound and context, but they saw production images and concept arts. For example, Ward does have wrong leaks but he already described Palpy's throne room before and his description matched the trailer because he actually saw the footage of the throne room, and unfortunately, Kylo falls down the pit is one of the things Ward has seen.

@toolonelytosleep  I agree with you, my main problem is just how Rey excuses her action in the leak. She doesn't commit it because she is in denial, she commits it because she just wants to prove that she's better than him even though Kylo is already in a mental breakdown due to the death of Leia. This case is a thousand times worse than Jonerys, Dany was still in the destructive mode when she was killed, while Kylo isn't.

motherofpearl1 wrote:I'd love to know just exactly what that ...thing is Rey and Kylo are destroying.

@motherofpearl1

They are destroying Vader's mask during their fight.

@rawpowah
I'm more in the "it will be left ambiguous" camp, but they can still show Rey and Kylo having romantic feelings for one another even as they hurt each other. I'm with you though on hoping Rey doesn't kill Kylo out of moral self-righteousness. Not even as a Reylo shipper, but as someone who always wanted Rey to be a bit more fleshed out than her pure heroine image, as motherofpearl1 has also said.

@special_cases
@OrionStars  
If the leak had described it differently, I might've been more receptive to a "Rey stabs Kylo" scene. Rey stabbing Kylo could be the pinnacle of drama, especially if it's meant to show Rey's darker side and how broken she feels after, all the while Kylo still cares for and believes in her. It can be a reversal of sorts, where it's the villain's love that stops the hero from going to the dark side. But Rey killing Kylo and declaring she'll never go to the dark side sounds... dull and predictable. I hope the leaks are missing some important emotional details and nuances.

I keep going back to the words used to describe Rey and Kylo's relationship in this film—desperate, connected, complicated, complex—and I just can’t fathom how Rey killing Kylo and being praised for it by the narrative portrays their relationship as something more than basic enemies who must defeat each other.

(Unless Kylo being in unrequited love with Rey is the real deal... then all the desperate and complex emotions are on his end, but not Rey's. Which I'm really hoping is not the case, but I'm preparing myself.   )

Edit: I hope I'm not being a downer by speculating over this scene. I'm trying to be balanced between being optimistic that the leaks are lacking crucial details, while acknowledging it could all play out as described. Even way back during TFA, I never thought Rey and Kylo would end the series on poor terms. I'm still trusting my gut that reconciliation is necessary for the two of them, bittersweet or otherwise.

@toolonelytosleep

I feel you, but don't worry, I agree that plot point sounds absurd and unconvincing, but even if that leak is true to every word that Rey says in that scene, it's still better than how JJ treated other couples of his old works. I'm still trying hard to  be positive and I think stabbing each other to death is still better than cheating on each other and the male partner suddenly having a love child out of nowhere, teeheeee

The Ice base is in space(no liquid water), where we first see the Falcon meet the resistance fighter who has information about the Kylo Ren and the Sith Fleet.
The last shot of Rey is taken from when she realizes Ben has arrived to help her face Palpatine
Leia’s line is from one of the lines she says when Rey leaves in the beginning
Luke’s line is from achc-to
Leia training is now unseen in the beginning, replaced by the opening sequence where SD’s rise from the ground, seen in the trailer.
Palpatine has made his offer to Rey.
Rey rejects the offer when she senses Ben.
Rey destroys the red guards/Ben kills the KoR.
Rey and Ben stand united before the Emperor.
He says this line before force draining them.
It is NOT a reference to the dyad. Also, while some dyad dialogue does remain, this line still isn’t part of that former dialogue.
That is Rey’s helmet on the ground in the jungle.
Kylo’s quarters on his Star Destroyer is where you see Kylo and Rey Destroy the Vader helmet while she’s actually on Kijimi during the “flash fight.”
The shot where Rey actually hears Jedi from the past (once she’s has just been force drained and is on the features more that just Luke and Leia ).

Ok, so he appeared to be right about the throne and how it looked back in September

He also says Rey pulls 2 Sabres out, one Anakins and another blue one which belongs Leia

It appears palp really is palp?

Who's damn saber is that? There is not much about this saber, REG..nothing,

Anakins and Leias brand new saber do not rhyme here...who's saber did Leia have before she gave it to Rey?



This is what he says he saw:

he who shall not be named also says

No Matt Smith

Hot Palpy is dead dead dead...

All I can say is that if it ends with Rey alone as the supreme wielder of the Force, then I'll end up despising her.
It'll be a poor ending for two great characters, presumably just to satisfy a few toxic antis. Which ironically are already stating they have no intention of seeing this film.

Ok two things to note. Didn't Jason say his trusted sources told him that the trailer will have a Kylo and Palpatine scene? Well that was wrong.

Also Kira was posting all these random gifs, i actually don't recall if any of them matched the trailer.

It's so obvious that JP's depiction of Kylo is utterly wrong. He doesn't come across antagonistic based on the little snippet we saw today. He seems to be the one assuring Rey that he knows her in that Mr Darcy water scene, framed as the romantic byronic hero. That last shot of him in the trailer where he had a tear rolling down his cheek - ok that is NOT villainous Kylo either. There was even a shot of them destroying that dark acolyte thing together. It's obvious JP probably captured some of the basic plot outline, but absolutely not the story, or the emotional context at all. He got that way way wrong.

Okay, slept for four hours and I wish it was more, but sadly my duties will not handle themselves on their own

Regarding that leaked scene of Rey stabbing Kylo - I think my two problems with it are:
1. It supposedly happens while they both sense Leia’s death which basically means that they need to halt/slow down the fight they’re in - and it’s then that Rey stabs Kylo. Reylo aside, this makes no sense - like she stops and feels Leia’s passing and suddenly ‘Oh, I have a chance now, let’s stab Kylo’ lmao
2. She heals his wound and tells him she’ll not be like him and fall to the dark side all righteous - and only later does she feel horrified, on Ahch-to.

If that scene played out differently - Rey stabs Kylo during a violent fight, she just gets the upper hand and happens to strike, she’s shocked and horrified immediately, heals him and whatever she keeps saying about falling to the dark side doesn’t sound super self-righteous - then I could accept it. Hell, the dialogue from the trailer could take place then - Rey, horrified she’s not the light beacon of hope as she’s capable of evil, says that no one knows her and Kylo softly replies that he does and things get better between them.

Yeah its funny about the stabbing situation - I would guess Kylo is not the one who would prefere to be alive anyway.

I'm pretty sure that the dark acolyte thing gets smashed during Rey and Kylo's fight and they're not actually destroying it together. With their dynamic, I think what they're going for is something like, two people who have a connection but end up fighting each other because of the side they've chosen. But yeah their storyline makes no sense whatsoever in the leaks, even going by its own basic premise where Kylo is tasked with bringing Rey to Palpatine. So then he spends the movie antagonising her, drip-feeding Rey's backstory, and blocking her path in their final battle so that she has to kill him in order to get to Palpatine... like... what?

Oh and Rey just randomly develops a brand new healing power out of nowhere, just so that she can conveniently heal Kylo? If I remember right, JP was hinting at one point that Rey's healing powers were actually going to play an important role in Palpatine's resuscitation, before that plot point got dropped. To be fair, I can totally see JJ giving Rey a new convenient power so that the plot can plot, but I could think of other ways to resolve her fight with Kylo without some contrived Jesus powers.

@Riri


I agree with all you said but

There was even a shot of them destroying that dark acolyte thing together. wrote:

I believe it was not intentional but a cause of their fight perhaps.

Just listening to he who will not be named..

LORD I hate his show

But that is not the way he narrates the end

Kylo and Rey are drained to rejuvenate Palpy...

Then Palps throws KYLO down the hole?

something something....

Rey kills Palps with two blue sabers...Leia's ? ( obi wan's? ) & Anakin's
Supposedly this is PEAK reylo